Is a Shardspear possible and can Shardplate be summoned

[Aminar]

I find that... questionable. Szeth is the only person that describes what works against a person, and what area needs to be hit. He says nothing about taking out lungs or hearts. Especially because the limbloss isn't organ based at all. It doesn't kill the muscle it slices, it kills everything below it, and only if it goes through the core of the limb, it's all or nothing.

Greatshell physiology may be entirely different. They certainly don't have spinal chords, and given the relation between nervous system and damge as suggested by Szeth's thoughts on the subject that sounds like it makes a big difference.

[Xenq he/him]

Hi all. Been reading here for awhile but with book 2 just around the corner thought I'd better get involved

 

I have to question the usefulness of a shardspear.  Shardblades are shown as most effective when used in wide sweeping slashes, cutting down several opponents at once by cutting their spines(stated as required for a lethal cut..  

 

Shardblades definitely have the edge in indiscriminately killing unarmoured targets but as you say a spearbearer may have an advantage in one-on-one combat. You could also work as a team with spears to take down high-value targets (other shardbearers, Thunderclast etc.).

[vikorr]

In relation to a Shardarrow:

- if it mists as soon as you release it...it'd be hilarious, but not particularly effective..a practical joke on archers.

- if it didn't behave like other shard weapons, and stayed the course... would anyone still really want to wait 10 heartbeats to summon in back each time?

 

In relation to whether a Shardspear or Shardblade is better for Kaladin, I found this little quote from Adolin's duel :

 

The Shardblade didn’t respond, but Adolin imagined that it listened to him. You couldn’t use a weapon like this, a weapon that seemed like an extension of the soul itself, and not feel at times that it was alive.

 

 

Given that, and Brandon's answer - is there really any doubt which weapon Kaladin will end up with?

 

(and it'll still be cool when it happens)

Edited February 3, 2014 by vikorr

[Duskshard he/him]

I find that... questionable. Szeth is the only person that describes what works against a person, and what area needs to be hit. He says nothing about taking out lungs or hearts. Especially because the limbloss isn't organ based at all. It doesn't kill the muscle it slices, it kills everything below it, and only if it goes through the core of the limb, it's all or nothing.

Greatshell physiology may be entirely different. They certainly don't have spinal chords, and given the relation between nervous system and damge as suggested by Szeth's thoughts on the subject that sounds like it makes a big difference.

 

It makes sense to me. We know that a Shardblade cuts the Souls of living beings. We know that the spiritual body has a sort of spiritual template in the Cosmere universe and that's how Feruchemical gold and possibly Regrowth work to heal limbs that have been severed by Shardblades. (at least I believe that's the most accepted theory) 

 

If that's correct then if a blade that passes through the core of a limb servers it's spiritual aspect from the physical rendering it useless, then I don't see why cutting through the spiritual templates heart for example wouldn't also sever its connection with the physical body, resulting in death. 

[Meamzed]

I've always held onto the idea that radiants could summon their plate as well as their blades… After all, We know that the Radiants could invest in their plate, or at least do something to it… we don't (afaik) know what it does, but it makes plate and blade glow with Glyphs…. It isn't a huge step to imagine being able to summon/dismiss plate as well as blade.
 

Speaking of blade and plate… Do we have any idea where hundreds, if not thousands of sets of Blade and Plate have disappeared to? Is Urithiru now a giant storage Cache?

[Aminar]

It makes sense to me. We know that a Shardblade cuts the Souls of living beings. We know that the spiritual body has a sort of spiritual template in the Cosmere universe and that's how Feruchemical gold and possibly Regrowth work to heal limbs that have been severed by Shardblades. (at least I believe that's the most accepted theory)

If that's correct then if a blade that passes through the core of a limb servers it's spiritual aspect from the physical rendering it useless, then I don't see why cutting through the spiritual templates heart for example wouldn't also sever its connection with the physical body, resulting in death.

Largely because Szeth is the setup explanation for shardblades, and his mention of the spine is very specific. Specific enough where Szeth would have said something about the organs if they mattered. Especially given how much we relate to the heart as a killshot.

Moreover, I think that has an explicit relation to how people's spirits are set up, something important. It makes sense that the spirit doesn't have organ anologues, why would it need them. We don't have soulblood to pump, soul-air to breathe, our souls don't spirit-defecate. That's all physical stuff, and what organs do. So why would stabbing an irrelevent part of a soul matter, if the soul is even there?(It sounds to me like souls are a stick figure framework) Chopping off a limb severs it, so the limb is useless. Limbs must matter in the spirit world. A cut through the spine burns out a persons eyes and kills them, that must be directly connected to the core of the soul.

The spirit form of a greatshell is bound to be different. It doesn't have any intelligence to speak of, so maybe there is something different about their spiritual physiology, a more realistic aspect because they don't have a concept of a soul. Either way, I have always found that scene odd, since my first wok readthrough.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Aminar

[Pinpoint he/him]

Here's a theory. 

What if something about the user who summons the blade determines whether it will be a shard blade or spear. Or perhaps the way you summon the weapon. I think we can agree that the shard weapons have a distinct presence in a realm beside physical. I think there might be a way to change the weapon during the transition from one realm to another. 

Maybe this is an ability that those bonded with spren have. Maybe the Radiants could choose how their shard weapons were made manifest in the physical realm

[Aminar]

Here's a theory. 

What if something about the user who summons the blade determines whether it will be a shard blade or spear. Or perhaps the way you summon the weapon. I think we can agree that the shard weapons have a distinct presence in a realm beside physical. I think there might be a way to change the weapon during the transition from one realm to another. 

Maybe this is an ability that those bonded with spren have. Maybe the Radiants could choose how their shard weapons were made manifest in the physical realm

I think, if anything, the lack of shardspears suggests that shardblades are made. Otherwise the weapons would be more diverse. That said, I think it probably takes a surge to forge a shardblade, perhaps transformation, but more likely the last unknown one. It would fit a genre trope, although combining with transportation and surface tension seems off.

[Pinpoint he/him]

We don't know much about the Radiants. They may have had diverse weapons. Shardblades were probably just more efficient when killing thunderclasts.

 

Besides, I think it has something to do with belief. Nobody believes that you can change your shard weapons. I'm pretty sure a main theme in the book is going to be about belief and illusion  

[dyring]

Hmm. Shardspear.

 

Now, if there was a character in one of Brandon´s absolute favorite bookseries wich a certain type of spear could be a nice homage to, while simultaneously be more efficent as a "shardspear" then a standard spear. Equal, or maybe better then a sword.

 

If such a character existed, then I´d bet it would be such a spear.

 

Wait! There is such a char!

 

Ashandarei ftw.

[Aminar]

We don't know much about the Radiants. They may have had diverse weapons. Shardblades were probably just more efficient when killing thunderclasts.

 

Besides, I think it has something to do with belief. Nobody believes that you can change your shard weapons. I'm pretty sure a main theme in the book is going to be about belief and illusion

We see entire battalions of radiants ditch plate and blade without a whisper of a shardspear. You'd think Dalinar would have noticed them if they existed, and these were Radiants that didn't deal with thunderclasts. Granted, I feel a shardblade is a much more useful weapon than a shardspear despite my love of spears. It doesn't seem like shardblades are mutable things. Plate changes for its wearer, resizing and becoming formfitting. Blades don't change. There has to be a reason for that.(My guess, an order of Radiant Smiths.) Although whoever made the point about Division has a very good point.

[Pinpoint he/him]

Perhaps the Radiants themselves didn't know. Or they were trying to keep it secret

 

There are almost definitely going to be shardspears in the future books. The question is, how do you get one? 

Edited February 3, 2014 by Pinpoint

[rbnguevara]

I love all the diverse responses to this topic and I have some counter arguments/ thoughts to most but most important to me is whether or not Plate can be summoned.

 

After further research(because I had to be 100%)  In CH 19 Starfall both KR removed there helms not just the female.  Now given the great attention to detail that Dalinar demonstrates I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't recognize on the spot something awkward about the helms being simply transparent.  Like if I asked my sister to put on say a motorcycle helmet and then tried to envision her wearing that as if it were invisible I would notice probably her bunched up hair first being pressed against her head and not affected by the air.  Also there is the speech issue.  If she speaks to me wearing a helmet no matter the transparency I will notice her voice is kinda muffled but understandable.  I can sympathize with the theory that they manipulate the light to make the whole helm transparent but it just doesn't fit with the facts.  I stick to my original assumption.  Shardeplate could be summoned by a full KR.

 

Furthermore I don't believe that once the bond is complete and a KR earns his Plate and Blade(if that is what happens) then his spren essentially looses his or her ability to speak or exist as a friend or companion to the new KR. 

 

I also believe that it was unlikely that during the time of the KR when a Knight passed on his Plate and Blade when to a new Knight.  Given the intimate level at which a spren bonds to the perspective Knight.  To do this would make the Spren the same as Swingers.

 

 

[Aminar]

I don't think the Spren become the plate and blades... It feels wrong, especially given the different spren associated with the different orders. Why would every kind of Spren become the same thing, and why armor? It's too artificial seeming... Shardplate and blades are decidedly spiritual(use stormlight) while Spren are cognitive, Ideas given shape.

That said, I agree that Shardplate can be summoned. After all, we know it is made from stormlight.(Now I really want one of orders to be Stormsmiths, because that word is epic...)

[Yalb]

My thoughts on Shardplate:

 

1. That a Surgebinder summons/instantly grows there Shardplate when they say the 4/5 ideal.

 

2. That the purpose of Shardeplate for the Surgebinder is twofold, 1- To act as an exoskeleton offering enhanced defence and offensive capabilities. 2- To act as a second skin to provide perfect containment for the Surgebinders stormlight.

 

3. That the reason Shardplate glowed for the KR is due to the second point made above, i.e. containment of stormlight.

 

4. That invested gemstones weren't necessary to power the Plate, that the Surgebinder could do that directly.

 

5. That Shardplate is of Cultivation or a mixture of Cultivation and honor (as are the bonded spren) and this is why Surgebinding granted from an Honorblade isn't compatibly with Shardplate.

This is exactly what I have been thinking. And the screaming was the spren when the KR severed the Nahal bond while droping their Shards. I also think that is why Kaladin gets a super wrong feeling from shardplate and blades. It has to be given during the bonding process or its like enslavement.

Also I remember in WOK hes describing one of the Heralds weapons. It sounded like a spear or halberd not a sword.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Yalb

[Lorna]

Also I remember in WOK hes describing one of the Heralds weapons. It sounded like a spear or halberd not a sword.

 

I thought that too at first when Taln showed up in Kholinar. But then when I went back to confirm, I found it was described as looking like "an enormous spike", instead of "enormous pike" as I'd first (mis)read it.

[A Joe in the Bush]

Would it be Possible to Make a Shard Weapon that would Return to your Hand when Thrown? So thatit Only Disaperes when Picked up by Someone else? I'm Picturing Thor's Hammer. Or Could you make Shardic Ammo? I want a Shard Bow with Arrows that Disapere When you Drop the Bow, and Return to the Shard Quiver.