+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 According to Dalinar's visions, Shardplates and Shardblades work differently in the "modern" era of Roshar than in the time of the Knights Radiant. Also there are a lot less shards in the world than there should be. Chapter 52 "Highway to the sun" page 730 There looked to be a good two hundred Shardbearers out there. Alethkar owned some twenty Blades, Jah Keved a similar number. If one added up all the rest in the world, there might be enough total to equal the two powerful Vorin kingdoms. That meant, so far as he knew, there were less than hundred Blades in all of the world. And here he saw two hundred Shardbearers gathered in one army. Where did all the other blades go and why did the plate behave so differently? What if the plates and blades are made like fabrials,and are copies of the knights' equipment. Yes in that same chapter I quoted, people are picking up the Knights' blades and plate and fighting over them, but it doesn't show them using them. What happened to the missing equipment? What if it deteriorated without the Knights and their spren powering it? They could have copied the blades and plate. They copied surgebinder powers. Chapter 72 "Veristitalian" page 979 “Two orders of the Knights Radiant possessed inherent Soulcasting ability; it was based on their powers that the original fabrials were designed, I believe." They didn't have those fabrials in the time of the Radiants. Chapter 62 "Right for Wrong" page 861 “The ancients didn’t have fabrials, Navani. I’m certain of it.” So the soulcasting fabrials must have been made later. They are close to making shards now. Maybe they made these copy shards in the past. If the shards are copies, then that could explain why they didn't feel right to Syl or Kaladin. It might also explain why windrunners in the past had shard plate, but Szeth could not use plate with his surgebinding powers. So what do you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor he/him Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Szeth is NOT a Windrunner! He holds a HonorBlade, (as far as anyone can guess,) most likely Jezrein's. He has no spren and no bond, its WoB. I'll bet thats why he cant use Shardplate. Ooh, maybe he could use Honorplate? I highly doubt modern Plate and Blades are copies. I believe the majority of 'em are held and hidden by the Shin - after all, they have at least one if not more Honorblades. But other people have some. I mean, people havent forgotten how to make fabrials! Imagine - if they knew how to make Plate and Blade, chances are they wouldn't let the knowledge be lost. And how does modern Plate and Blade act differently, other than that it doesn't glow? Edited February 8, 2014 by Stroniax 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 And how does modern Plate and Blade act differently, other than that it doesn't glow? The helmets disappeared and reappeared in one of Dalinar's visions. Chapter 19 "Starfalls" pages 304 and 305 "The female Shardbearer turned to Dalinar. She had her helm on now. When had she put it on?" "Dalinar turned to find the male Shardbearer regarding him. Where had the man’s helm gone?" Szeth isn't a Windrunner and most likely gets his power from what you said. His power acts like a windrunner's however. I don't know how Kaladin could use plate powered by gemstones. One theory is that gemstones didn't power the Knight Radiant's plate. That would work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) The helmets disappeared and reappeared in one of Dalinar's visions. Modern Shardplate can become translucent (only to you, though) if you want it to, so I think old-style Plate is likely just more effective at the task. Edited February 8, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torian'Omil Stonespark Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 The helmets disappeared and reappeared in one of Dalinar's visions. Chapter 19 "Starfalls" pages 304 and 305 Szeth isn't a Windrunner and most likely gets his power from what you said. His power acts like a windrunner's however. I don't know how Kaladin could use plate powered by gemstones. One theory is that gemstones didn't power the Knight Radiant's plate. That would work. +1 I would like to add that I do not think they were powered by gemstones, as when Dalinar saw them abandon the plate it fell a way and stopped glowing. I believe the gemstones were the looter's way of being able to use the plate as it would possible have been too heavy and ineffective without whatever "endowments" the Radiants used for power. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarion Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 +1 I would like to add that I do not think they were powered by gemstones, as when Dalinar saw them abandon the plate it fell a way and stopped glowing. I believe the gemstones were the looter's way of being able to use the plate as it would possible have been too heavy and ineffective without whatever "endowments" the Radiants used for power. I suspect that originally, the plate was powered by the Stormlight held by the wearer. The current plate uses gems as an alternate, inferior power source. Look at how much Stormlight Kaladin, a newbie KR, is able to hold, and for how long. If he gets better at holding it with experience, I think it's likely that he's going to be able to hold far more than the gems used to support a set of Shardplate. This has some interesting implications for the Plate too. You can regenerate Shardplate by feeding more 'Light into it. Would that mean that a Radiant holding enough Stormlight would have his Plate regrow around him? I'd also suspect that it would just be all-around stronger, enhancing strength more, and taking more of a pounding to actually break, as a function of having more power, but that's mostly just a guess. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torian'Omil Stonespark Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I suspect that originally, the plate was powered by the Stormlight held by the wearer. The current plate uses gems as an alternate, inferior power source. Look at how much Stormlight Kaladin, a newbie KR, is able to hold, and for how long. If he gets better at holding it with experience, I think it's likely that he's going to be able to hold far more than the gems used to support a set of Shardplate. This has some interesting implications for the Plate too. You can regenerate Shardplate by feeding more 'Light into it. Would that mean that a Radiant holding enough Stormlight would have his Plate regrow around him? I'd also suspect that it would just be all-around stronger, enhancing strength more, and taking more of a pounding to actually break, as a function of having more power, but that's mostly just a guess. I think along these same lines and agree with you whole-heatedly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaring at the Survivor he/him Posted February 8, 2014 Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Modern Shardplate can become translucent (only to you, though) if you want it to, so I think old-style Plate is likely just more effective at the task.I highly doubt it, for a few reasons:One, why then would the helmets not always appear fully transparent? Two, if they could choose whether or not they were fully transparent or not, what would be the purpose of choosing and changing it? Would not them always being fully transparent, but still being there, be a better choice? I'm pretty sure it works more like shardblades, in that that they could be dismissed. Or worked. Perhaps due to their powering system being different or something? And I bet it's possible to 'dismiss' a Shardblade while holding it... maybe... EDIT: Maybe the armor is just weaker the more times you "regenerate" it. Edited February 8, 2014 by Stroniax 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 Modern Shardplate can become translucent (only to you, though) if you want it to, so I think old-style Plate is likely just more effective at the task. Maybe the new plate is less effective because it is a copy of the original. I admit this is a speculation (even in the title of the thread), but there is something wrong with the modern plate and blade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Maybe the new plate is less effective because it is a copy of the original. I admit this is a speculation (even in the title of the thread), but there is something wrong with the modern plate and blade. Ignorance in its use and a flawed power source. It seems highly unlikely that post-recreance the way to make Plate and Blade would be lost and unreported, as records from that time still exist in relatively decent levels. If anything the Recreance is what destroyed much of moder knowledge of the previous desolation on Roshar. There would, minimum, be mentions of the fact smiths could still make it. Instead it feels like the knowledge was lost with the Radiants. It's clearly the implication if nothing else. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natans he/him Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Well Sanderson said that we would have some kind of explanation of who one created a plate, unnecessary to say that I'm very curious about the matter, maybe you are correct but to me the plates must have some kind of conection with surges and sprens =) My best guess involve a Bondsmith, lots of stormlight, a spreen and 5 liters of element X =) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 More evidence. Just finished my reread to prepare for March 4th and I came across this. Chapter 75 "In the Top Room." page 997 bold formatting added by me. The figure was silent for a moment. Then he spoke in a clear, crisp voice. “Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore.” This suggests men do not bear the Shards of the KR now. I could be reading to much into it, but something is wrong with the shardblades and plates humans have at the time of TWoKs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torian'Omil Stonespark Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 More evidence. Just finished my reread to prepare for March 4th and I came across this. Chapter 75 "In the Top Room." page 997 bold formatting added by me. This suggests men do not bear the Shards of the KR now. I could be reading to much into it, but something is wrong with the shardblades and plates humans have at the time of TWoKs. I believe this also alludes to the present plate being powered by an inferior source (gemstones) Kaladins marked increase in his control of stormlight after speaking the ideals is a measurable increase that in my opinion is a "step" the ideals provide a focus, the oathpact a purpose. I do not believe that any person has made a shard plate, but those in existence are the remnants from the Recreance, powered by the substandard power sources, and eventually these will be used as they were intended by those invested with the power to fulfill the oathpact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 . I do not believe that any person has made a shard plate, Except for the half shard shields that exist in modern Roshar. It's likely my speculation is wrong. However, if regular people could use the KR plate and blades why are there only a hundred or so sets in the world, when there used to be thousands of KRs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Except for the half shard shields that exist in modern Roshar. It's likely my speculation is wrong. However, if regular people could use the KR plate and blades why are there only a hundred or so sets in the world, when there used to be thousands of KRs? Those are in name only. I don't think the Shardshields regenerate like Shardplate, they're just figuring out how to invest objects enough to block shardblades and calling them shards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I guess we will see. But it would be an interesting twist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Honestly, I'd feel a little betrayed. The buildup so far has been that the shards that remain are relics from a previous era, many of which are lost. Finding out they are cheap copies would be contradictory to the build up and a somewhat cheap twist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+eveorjoy she/her Posted February 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 They would still be relics. The soulcaster fabriels are relics and they weren't made the the Knight's Radiant either. Actually the more and more I read TWoKs the worse I feel about the blades. Not only do Syl and Kaladin get bad vibes from them, Taravangian and Szeth also speak of them with distaste. At this point I think if they were copies that would be better than other things I have considered them being, from the remains of Spren to tools of Odium. It also bothers me how much everyone wants Kaladin to get a shardblade. Besides the fact that he loves the spear, and has never held a sword in his life and so would have no talent with a shardblade, something is wrong with the shardblades and plate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 As far as Kal getting a Shardblade, it won't happen. Brandon initially wrote Kal starting out getting a shardblade and being an intolerably boring character. I don't think he'll suddenly change the character progression and give Kal a shardblade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezedragon he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well if youtake a look at it, Syl might have Kal take up not a shardblade but maybe one of the original blades will show up later on in the story. When the Herald died at the end of Way Of Kings, the book said he had a shardblade. What happened to his original blade and where did it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Stroniax, I think you need to make a formal theory thread about the Shin hoarding all the plate and blades they can. I want to espouse it! Also the Shin seem to have a similar view of fighting and warfare to the Knights Radiant, fighting is not glorious, good, or something to be proud of, but can be necessary at times. Szeth seems to be confident that the shamans would be able to come and retrieve the HONORBLADE from whomever has it, even though it would grant surgebinding abilities in addition to being a weapon worth kingdoms. The only way to be sure of retrieving it would be either overwhelming numbers of full shardbearers or Honorblades of their own, with people better trained in surgebinding than the new holder. Informally espoused +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Well if youtake a look at it, Syl might have Kal take up not a shardblade but maybe one of the original blades will show up later on in the story. When the Herald died at the end of Way Of Kings, the book said he had a shardblade. What happened to his original blade and where did it go? The herald did not die at the end of The Way of Kings, he just passed out. (Honorblades disappear when their holder dies) Also it is referred to as a shardblade because honorblades are a kind of shardblade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think i agree!! According to syl and kaladin 'they feel wrong' i think they are tainted, like maybe from all the innocent blood shed by them or some thing to do with ODIUM?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezedragon he/him Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Well, the shardblades are probably Original. They were given to the people by the creator so they would probably should be used for good. when a person has a shardblade that is weak, maybe the way to unlock its full potential is to have a bindspren. The blade would then be truly locked with your heartbeat and maybe even a persons' excess stormlight. Edited February 19, 2014 by freezedragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxilian he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I'm going to assume that anyone making it here have read WoR by now, but the origin of shardblades is completely explained in that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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