Autism in Sanderson's Works-Let's diagnose fictional characters!(Possible Spoilers)

[TheProphet19 he/him]

Hello all! So as someone with personal/professional experience with autism I think that the idea that certain Brandon Sanderson characters may have autism is quite compelling. The ones I have seen discussed before are Joel (The Rithmatist) and David (Steelheart). Because this thread may discuss actions/traits of characters in various books, spoilers are likely.

 

Essentially, I'd like for 17shard to play clinical pyschologist and diagnose Brandon's characters according to the DSM-V criteria. Other pyschological disorders are welcome to be discussed, but I can only provide respectable insight into autism specifically.

 

So, to start, how about anyone interested in this post what characters they believe have an autism spectrum disorder, or other pyschological condition, and then we'll start with the most popular, trying to find examples to prove that criteria are fufilled or not.

 

Maybe it sounds like work, but I think it would be fun/interesting!

Edited February 9, 2014 by TheProphet19

[Natans he/him]

Renarin. Sanderson said that he are almost but not quite there. Well, aside that, Renarin with his social problems and comportament raised some flags even before i readed about in one of Sanderson interviews. =)

[TheProphet19 he/him]

Good one! Wouldn't have thought of that, but it makes sense. I'm not sure if we have enough of Renarin to make a full examination, but with WoR coming out soon, that may change. Link to the interview? Depending on Sanderson's wording I may try to argue for/against it by searching through Way of Kings for all his description/dialogue and analyzing. Or ask FeatherWriter...

 

Edit: Just found the question. I will take Brandon's word for it, but may still try to find evidence one way or the other. Renarin strikes me as able to pass for neurotypical because of the expectations placed on him as a Kholin. In other words, he is essentially very good at masking himself (like many girls with asperger's are thought to be). Perhaps this is part of his quiet nature? Its easier to appear normal when you fade into the background.

Edited February 9, 2014 by TheProphet19

[Eri she/her]

I don't remember the name and Elantris is the only book I don't have, but wasn't one of the Elantrians canonnically autistic?

[Scriptorian he/him]

I don't remember the name and Elantris is the only book I don't have, but wasn't one of the Elantrians canonnically autistic?

The character you are thinking of is Adien. The coppermind definitively states he was autistic, although becoming an Elantrian seems to have removed his disabillity.

[Haelbarde he/him]

I wonder if this will be sufficient to bait FeatherWriter in...

 

The WoB re: Renarin:

KOGIOPSIS

Is Renarin Kholin on the autism spectrum?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Slightly—not even so much as Asperger's, but yes. (Something about it being difficult to notice/diagnose?)

[Aminar]

I feel like Joel and David don't really fit the criteria. They're dedicated scholars, highly intelligent, and a little socially awkward. They fit that characterization, which can be Istaken for autism, even in the real world, but has distinctive differences involved in development and their childhood. If they were autistic we would have seen some form of sensory issue to go with their other conditions.

[TheProphet19 he/him]

I'm reserving judgement until I see the 2nd book, but I really hope Adien of Elantris retains some of his personality, as I believe being an Elantrian would remove his more negative symptoms but leave the positive ones alone.

 

And secondly, I agree that Joel and David don't seem to have sensory imbalances. But is there anything in their respective books that could contradict you, even if it stretched the definition of a "sensory issue"? Without his WoB, Renarin would have the same issue.
 

[Aminar]

I'm really not sure Prophet.  I don't remember any major issues.  They aren't mentioned to be picky eaters, and many of the stimming style sensory issues would be highly disruptive in a POV character so I can't imagine them showing up, or missing them.  It's possible they're incredibly subtle, but I really don't think Brandon was trying to convey either character as autistic.  That isn't to say they couldn't be in the same place as Renarin(So high functioning on the spectrum it doesn't really affect their daily life much, but I could be on the spectrum at that point.  Given the DSM's requirement that a condition affect daily life that makes them pretty undiagnosable.)

[FeatherWriter she/her]

*is summoned*

 

Yes, I'm very good friends with kogiopsis, who asked that question, as well as her two roommates, whose tumblr handles are swamp-spirit and lunarubato. Swamp-spirit is ASD, and she was the one who actually theorized that Renarin might be ASD and prompted Kogi to ask the question. She recognized the ways that he reacted to things as similar to her own experiences and made the connection. So, while Renarin might originally read as neurotypical to those of us who don't know, you can rest assured that his portrayal is certainly accurate enough to be recognizable to those who know what they're looking for. 

 

(By the way, swamp-spirit has told me that if anyone has questions about Renarin or just want to talk to an ASD WoK fan, she's welcome to answer them. Her askbox on tumblr can be found here: http://swamp-spirit.tumblr.com/ask.)

[Jaaaaaade]

Still not around to reading Elantris, but you've intrigued me with Adien.

 

However, I can't find a link that explains this topic well enough, so it looks like i'm going to have to write this myself.

Disorder =/= disabilty. Don't listen to the dictionary on this, but they aren't even synonyms. It also usually lists disease as a synonym. Thankfully no one's reffered to autism as a disease in this thread, but I have been in conversations where mental disorders were lumped under 'diseases', which I can't begin to explain how wrong that is. See I'm not going to sneeze aspergers onto anyone no matter how hard I try.

So anyway, a disability is a 'physical or mental condition that limits a person's movements, senses, or activities.' This does not describe autism as a whole. It implies weakness. it's not a disability until the person in question comes up to you and says 'autism stops me from doing something vital, or it makes me feel disabled', for example.

A disorder, however, is 'disrupt the systematic functioning or neat arrangement of.' so basically, it's shaking up the status quo.

Now, 'disorder' is fine, but even better would be 'condition': 'the circumstances or factors affecting the way in which people live or work, especially with regard to their well-being.'
or even simply, a 'neurotype'.

 

I also would like to point enthusiastically in Sazed's direction for a few reasons, a) To remind everyone it's not necessarily a disability and b ) he studies religion obsessively in order to relax. He doesn't try to avoid people, he enjoys the company of his friends, but it does seem to take more effort than study for him.

[TheProphet19 he/him]

Thanks to Jaaaaaade for ranting a bit about disorders/disability. Generally speaking its better to talk about these things in terms of "differences", avoiding value statements etc.

 

Also, there is a name for Renarin, possibly others, and maybe even the newly-Elantrian Adien: General Autism Phenotype or GAP. Its usually talked about with regard to the family members of people with autism. But it essentially means one has some of the strengths and limitations of the autistic brain, but more in the form of personality type than legitimate developmental differences. I would consider to essentially be "less autism than Asperger's, more autism than neutrotypical". There is actually a great survey for estimating your own level of neurotypicality/autism, if anyone is interested.

 

And yes, Feather is right. Listening to the audiobook, Renarin is both knowledgeable and clueless blunt....classic.

[Tien'sPetLurg she/her]

My son has a form of Autism. The label PDD-NOS is alphabet soup and not very descriptive of how he is as a person. I've never read a Sanderson interview. But I'm in the midst of reading Elantris right now. The child who only mutters numbers , Adien, sounds spectrum(ish). As does his sister, Kaise, as she can retain so many facts, learn a gazillion languages and has some issues with her social skills. I have not finished the book so I don't know if much more of this comes out as the story progresses. But the 2 kids show sort of the extreme examples of the spectrum. (My son falls in between these two examples.)

Renarin, from the Stormlight Archives, strikes me as having some spectrum qualities but his powers and how the magic of his world affects him has yet to be fully described. Adolin, who doesn't seem to "get" that flirting with other women while on a date is socially unacceptable and can't seem to "figure" out women sounds about like someone who is so lightly touched that he wouldn't quite qualify for a diagnostic label. Many of us who are Autism Adjacent (LOL---family members) show bits of the same qualities. I like to say that my son's DNA collected every quirk in the family tree. As a result, he is a marvel: simultaneously exhausting and awesome. 

I'm watching for future books about Lift. I've got my eye on her awesomeness. ;-)

Sazed did not come across as having autism to me. Once you remember that his metalminds gave him access to an abundance of information and that he is a eunuch, a lot of his personality falls in line with that of a neurotypical Terrisman. The fact that I just wrote neurotypical Terrisman strikes me as hilarious. I mean, it's a Terrisman, which is not exactly the same as human therefore what is the typical nature of their neurology? <- And there is a bit of my quirkiness coming out. :-D 

As to the description of autism being a difference or a disability, I think it just depends on the extent to which it affects your ability to live independently. For those who live on their own, hold down a job, have a family, etc... it's merely a difference. I do not think it is a disease. It is fundamentally an information processing difference that can result in scattered skills, developmental delays and savant abilities. It's a grab bag: you never know what you will get. Trying to raise a child with the diagnosis to survive in "the wild" is never boring.