Long Game 36: State of Being

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

2 minutes ago, Alvron said:

No way.  The full profile contains far more information than any ten game profiles.  Two games of your choice set to your conditions but that's it.

I can agree to that on the condition that in pursuit of said Shard, I don't have to part with any of my items unless I decide to.  i.e. I'm not trading my Odiums for Ambition.

Throw in help balancing my MR7 rerun, regardless of whether or not I successfully defend you in this trial, and you have a deal.

2 minutes ago, Roadwalker said:

 

He was quoting me, and it was more convenient then going back further.

I had explained my gut feel about Alvron:

"The only way I can translate my gut feel into words is that Alvron has been avoiding mention of him being evil, where he normally talks about how evil he is and how many times he has been evil and adds lots of faces, which is either him being good, or him being evil and trying to throw us off. Dunno."

The best I could, and Initially I leaned that he was good, now my gut is leaning back the other way, but I doubt gut will be enough to get me to throw a vote on him unless he makes a typo.

So, why did Alv avoiding mention of his being evil make you believe that he was likely to be a villager? You still haven't explained this logical step, and as such, my vote remains on you.

What has changed about that line of thought for your gut to sway? You haven't set out anything that provides reason for your gut position to have moved, so we can only presume that you dislike going against the momentum of a lynch. Why are you so worried about that?

[Alvron he/him]

Just now, OrlokTsubodai said:

Throw in help balancing my MR7 rerun, regardless of whether or not I successfully defend you in this trial, and you have a deal.

There's a MR7 rerun?  Deal.  I loved the RP in that game so it will be great to see it run again.  Hopefully without the drama we had last time.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

So very, very wrong.  I tend to ask a lot of questions in my GM PMs.  Heck, I was well into the second page before N0 finished.  For one thing, I learnt that Cognitive Spirits don't need to use the privy.   You ask enough questions and the GMs tend to slip and reveal things they normally wouldn't.  Most information is kept secret as I don't like to give elims ideas but I have most of it in my Will so if you want it, kill me.  

It wasn't serious.  I fully intended to remove it once Straw posted.  I'm not a fan of D1 lynching so I would've remained voteless if Straw had posted.  When he didn't and I saw that he had said he was going to be away but was still logging on, I was torn as to keeping my vote on him or removing it.  I chose to keep it there as I'm also a huge fan of tied lynches being random.  It gives us a lot more information when two people are up for the lynch.  If I had seen that Clanky had broken the tie, I would've removed my vote to tied it back up as that's a lot more fun.  In fact, I would, as always, be happy to be lynched so long as another is tied with me.  Let the Gods of Luck and Chance decide our fate.  Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.

Dude.  I am ALV.  Holder of three Odiums.  Breaker of Sanities.  Harvester of Organs.  I always look evil as that's my style.  Part of the reason few can get any real read on me is that I play as if I'm evil in every game.

I know that you are hard to read, what with generally being evil. In some ways, I feel like you aren't acting evil enough. I have to conclude that the evil hasn't simply disappeared, it has just found a less visible means of expression. Like killing other players. 

As for being a fan of a tied lynch... I doubt that really matters since both Straw and Cloud were likely innocent. This tied lynch point honestly feels like a distraction. Still, I'd be game to try to set up a tie vote with you and somebody else.

Or maybe you have a power that lets you decide tied votes. That would be humorous.

55 minutes ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

@Roadwalker, I still don't think you've answered my question about why you were convinced that Alv and I were good. Would you please do so? Roadwalker, to add a little encouragement to this.

@Alvron, I'm quite happy to act as your lawyer. No hidden catches, and my word than I'll exploit loopholes to the very best of my abilities.

Hm, does this mean we do have a tied vote? Splendid. 

[Alvron he/him]

10 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I know that you are hard to read, what with generally being evil. In some ways, I feel like you aren't acting evil enough. I have to conclude that the evil hasn't simply disappeared, it has just found a less visible means of expression. Like killing other players. 

As for being a fan of a tied lynch... I doubt that really matters since both Straw and Cloud were likely innocent. This tied lynch point honestly feels like a distraction. Still, I'd be game to try to set up a tie vote with you and somebody else.

Or maybe you have a power that lets you decide tied votes. That would be humorous.

Sadly I have not killed anyone this game.  Yet. 

I could go through and link several games where I was pro tied lynch with me as one of the lynchees. But I'm feeling lazy.  If you really want me to though I can find game where I was both good and evil and gunning for tied lynches but that won't help you. It will however show that I do back up what I say.  I'm happy to be tied lynched every round until I die.  It makes it that much more fun waiting for the write up.  Did I die?  Am I alive?  Was there vote manipulations involved?  If you haven't tried it, you really should.  It's a nice rush.

Sadly, I currently have no vote manipulation powers but even if I did, I would only use them to try and insure a tied lynch.  Maybe even a three way tie for more fun.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Alvron

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

2 hours ago, Alvron said:

Sadly I have not killed anyone this game.  Yet. 

I believe you on that count.

I'm pretty sure Yitzi personally killed Flash. And there are still 3 eliminators left who could have killed Striker. So even if you are an eliminator, this statement has a 2 in 3 chance to be true.

 

EDIT: Random, totally unrelated question.

As far as I can tell, it looks suspiciously like every single player received a spanreed at the start of the game.

Is this true? Can anybody confirm that they do not own a spanreed?

It doesn't really matter, but it's nice to be able to figure out how this game is set up.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[Clanky he/him]

I'm going to put my vote on Manukos. It seems a bit odd to go from a couple posts of questioning Drake and the reasons for the Yitzi lynch, to straight up asking Drake what to do and then back to what if Drake is evil. While the posts about questioning Drake are all valid and you should never fully trust someone just because they killed a villager I just find the whole group of posts to be odd. Basically it appears as though he is trying to keep bringing up a lack of trust for Drake while also trying to get on Drakes good side while asking for advice. Now that you have had more time to think on this manukos what are your thoughts on the various possibilities you brought up in your previous posts?

12 hours ago, Megasif said:

Can the people in the cognitive realm come back to the physical realm with another essence mark?

Does anyone in the cognitive realm want an essence mark? I'd be willing to pass one onto a good guy if they need it. 

I'm also suspicious of Megasif for posts such as the one above. As well as when when he asked if the bad guys knew each other. and this post about the Straw lynch. While the latter two are consistent with a new player they still strike me as suspicious.

----------

Also now that we've had a player (Straw) finish the whole cycle from dying to the judging period all the way to the spiritual realm does anybody have any idea what the purpose of that is all about? Did Straw contact anyone or anything? I don't suppose Yitzi would be willing to help and try and send a message from beyond the grave to tell us how this works?

[Alvron he/him]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

EDIT: Random, totally unrelated question.

As far as I can tell, it looks suspiciously like every single player received a spanreed at the start of the game.

Is this true? Can anybody confirm that they do not own a spanreed?

It doesn't really matter, but it's nice to be able to figure out how this game is set up.

I can confirm that I did not receive a Spanreed at the start of the game.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I think we all received a span reed when we first applied our essence mark. I didn't start with one.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

I didn't start with one either, but I found one on the first cycle.

I'm just wondering if everybody "found" a spanreed on the first cycle, I guess.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

4 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

I didn't start with one either, but I found one on the first cycle.

I'm just wondering if everybody "found" a spanreed on the first cycle, I guess.

Why are you wondering this, Drake? It seems to me to be fishing for roles, and I struggle to understand why you want to know this, as a villager.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Mostly just because I thought it was humorous if Ecthelion had told us all that we luckily "found" spanreeds on the first cycle, when everybody got one.

I'm not sure exactly what makes you think possession of a spanreed reflects upon a player's role. If my theory is indeed true that everybody got one, it would just mean that PMing is pretty much a universal action. I don't see why it would hurt the village to discuss this, any more than it would hurt the village to bring up the fact that everybody has a power to spend a day action and gain 1 gold.

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

Mostly just because I thought it was humorous if Ecthelion had told us all that we luckily "found" spanreeds on the first cycle, when everybody got one.

I'm not sure exactly what makes you think possession of a spanreed reflects upon a player's role. If my theory is indeed true that everybody got one, it would just mean that PMing is pretty much a universal action. I don't see why it would hurt the village to discuss this, any more than it would hurt the village to bring up the fact that everybody has a power to spend a day action and gain 1 gold.

My concern is that your theory isn't really your theory, and that you sought to draw out players who didn't have spanreeds, believing that they may have different roles. I don't think that spanreed possession reflects on roles, and indeed, have evidence to the contrary, but think it a potential thought that you might have, making phishing a plausible thing to raise in this situation.

[Sami she/her]

12 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

I don't really have any kind of read on @Sami, @A Joe in the Bush @Daniyah. Please, talk about game things so players can get a read.

sorry I've been away recently so haven't had a lot of time to get on here. Excuse me while I go catch up on the last couple of cycles 

[Megasif he/him]

7 hours ago, Alvron said:

I can confirm that I did not receive a Spanreed at the start of the game.

I received one when I transitioned to the physical realm. I'm an arelon villager so it could be that it's a replacement for not having an ability role.

So Alvron could either be an ability role or it might be the punishment for being late in using the essence marks. 

And I think orlok is right in thinking that Drake might be trying to find roles. I had the thought about alvron as soon as I had seen his answer, before Orlok brought the point up. 

On that note,  

9 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

EDIT: Random, totally unrelated question.

As far as I can tell, it looks suspiciously like every single player received a spanreed at the start of the game.

Is this true? Can anybody confirm that they do not own a spanreed?

It doesn't really matter, but it's nice to be able to figure out how this game is set up.

Do you have a spanreed?

 

In answer to @Clanky, I mainly asked that question because it seemed to be a different type of game when it started so I thought the mechanics might be different. 

And the second question was because if they can come back then the bad guys can come back as well.

But in that case, we know who they are, so a bit useless. Unless they can change alignments or roles or something. This is because of the write-up, which implied(to me at least) that yitzi is now rid of odium and he can get some other role now. Or odium might even pass onto someone else now that we're on a different planet i.e a different champion or vessel.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Megasif

[Dani she/her]

1 hour ago, Megasif said:

So Alvron could either be an ability role or it might be the punishment for being late in using the essence marks. 

I transitioned late and still received it. I thought I was lucky to have randomly found a spanreed, but now it turns out that almost everyone got it . 

[A Joe in the Bush]

18 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

hi, I haven't been giving this game any thought. I will starting now though. I promise I will have an analysis post up in the next 16 hours.

Until then, can someone give me a run down of what has happened. I've only actually read the writeups, and the posts that mention me.

Sorry for the inactivity!

Sorry, i fell asleep before i did analysis. So i don't have anything yet.

[manukos he/him]

@Drake Marshall thank you for your analysis I was able to dig into it a bit more 

Before that the day (and the last night as well) was too dead of conversation and what you wanted to avoid , more discussion . Well I guess acusations and theories fly a lot more on the first two days , but still . 

I will join you on the lynch of Alvron ofand theoreticaly if we go through everyone one by one it should be an easy game , I d even be willing of lynching myself in the future if the majority asks for it in the future , I already have an rp in mind for that occasion

I suspect that the elims will start going after the five that drake indicated so perhaps revealing roles now wouldnt be  be the whorst of plans, since it would give the elims more targets ,  but I need some feedback on that plan . I dont know how sound it is

 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

1 hour ago, Manukos said:

I suspect that the elims will start going after the five that drake indicated so perhaps revealing roles now wouldnt be  be the whorst of plans, since it would give the elims more targets ,  but I need some feedback on that plan . I dont know how sound it is

Or maybe they won't kill those people because I'm wrong and one of them is evil.

Or maybe they won't kill those people because they want us to think that.

Kill strategy is always laced with IKYK so it's hard to get solid information from it, or to predict it.

1 hour ago, Manukos said:

I will join you on the lynch of Alvron ofand theoreticaly if we go through everyone one by one it should be an easy game , I d even be willing of lynching myself in the future if the majority asks for it in the future , I already have an rp in mind for that occasion

Please clarify. Are you implying that we should lynch systematically...?

13 hours ago, OrlokTsubodai said:

My concern is that your theory isn't really your theory, and that you sought to draw out players who didn't have spanreeds, believing that they may have different roles. I don't think that spanreed possession reflects on roles, and indeed, have evidence to the contrary, but think it a potential thought that you might have, making phishing a plausible thing to raise in this situation.

It looks like my theory is true, though.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[manukos he/him]

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

Or maybe they won't kill those people because I'm wrong and one of them is evil.

Or maybe they won't kill those people because they want us to think that.

 

Ok , ofcourse sceptisism and not taking things for granted ever is crucial for mafia , but you made real good cases for each of them 

1 hour ago, Drake Marshall said:

Please clarify. Are you implying that we should lynch systematically...?

I dont know what you mean systematicaly , but this is a big flaw of mine when I belive victory is within sight  I get lazy (I lose a lot of  chess matches cos of it) I just said that theoreticaly with pdium and one of his followers dead already we should have it in the bag . 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Manukos

[Alvron he/him]

10 hours ago, Megasif said:

I received one when I transitioned to the physical realm. I'm an arelon villager so it could be that it's a replacement for not having an ability role.

So Alvron could either be an ability role or it might be the punishment for being late in using the essence marks. 

Please reread my statement very carefully.  I think you will learn more.

2 hours ago, Manukos said:

I will join you on the lynch of Alvron ofand theoreticaly if we go through everyone one by one it should be an easy game , I d even be willing of lynching myself in the future if the majority asks for it in the future , I already have an rp in mind for that occasion

Well, I'm only happy to be lynched if there is a tie so Manukos. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Then a tie it is, I suppose.

I'm okay with a true tie, but I rather hope a vote manipulator doesn't spoil it.

 

EDIT:

Also, interesting thing I'd like to point out.

In the cognitive realm, we see that somebody "was so-and-so" as their role.

But in the spiritual realm, that identity is stripped of them. It no longer says that Straw "was kiin" next to his name.

So I think that constitutes pretty solid evidence that if somebody does return from the spiritual realm, they have an entirely new identity, role, and potentially a different alignment (I'd guess that their alignment is unknown if they return in such a way, because otherwise it would be kind of silly).

Edited July 27, 2017 by Drake Marshall

[Alvron he/him]

2 hours ago, Drake Marshall said:

Then a tie it is, I suppose.

I'm okay with a true tie, but I rather hope a vote manipulator doesn't spoil it.

If there is vote manipulations, lynch the survivor the next day.  Or kill them this night.  Either is good.  Even if I'm the one saved, kill me to insure a clean slate for the next cycles lynching.

[Sparkrunner he/him]

On 7/25/2017 at 6:45 PM, OrlokTsubodai said:

So, why did Alv avoiding mention of his being evil make you believe that he was likely to be a villager? You still haven't explained this logical step, and as such, my vote remains on you.

What has changed about that line of thought for your gut to sway? You haven't set out anything that provides reason for your gut position to have moved, so we can only presume that you dislike going against the momentum of a lynch. Why are you so worried about that?

The way I explained it was the best way I could think of to translate my gut into words. Yes, it is faulty. It is my gut. I believe you misinterpret me. My lines of thought (Spaghetti bowl) do not sway my gut. My gut sways my lines of thought. (Earthquake) Tiny things like the way he talks or responds, the number of :ph43r: faces he uses, those sway my gut. That is why it is gut.

 

12 hours ago, Megasif said:

But in that case, we know who they are, so a bit useless. Unless they can change alignments or roles or something. This is because of the write-up, which implied(to me at least) that yitzi is now rid of odium and he can get some other role now. Or odium might even pass onto someone else now that we're on a different planet i.e a different champion or vessel.

The ruleset says " After you die you’ll return here for a couple cycles before “passing on” (see, morbid guy, right?) during which you’ll be “judged for your actions” and you might potentially change your outlook on life. "

I am an Arelon villager-roleless- with a spanreed that I "found" when I transitioned the first time.

36 minutes ago, Alvron said:

If there is vote manipulations, lynch the survivor the next day.  Or kill them this night.  Either is good.  Even if I'm the one saved, kill me to insure a clean slate for the next cycles lynching.

Now he is kind of being too okay with the lynch. See what I mean?

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

(2) Alvron - Drake, Manukos

(1) Roadwalker - Orlok

(2) Manukos - Clanky, Alvron

Are these really all of the votes? lol...I was feeling sick last night and today so sorry for being gone but can't do much when nauseous haha

I already wanted to lynch Manukos day one lol

Tied votes are fun heh....can we get someone to vote Alvron?  (except I don't want him dead cuz he's the funnest player in this game so far haha) So we could just get more on Manukos  

[Clanky he/him]

Manukos, Roadwalker. How about a three way tie? 

1 hour ago, Alvron said:

If there is vote manipulations, lynch the survivor the next day.  Or kill them this night.  Either is good.  Even if I'm the one saved, kill me to insure a clean slate for the next cycles lynching.

If we decide on lynching the survivor after voting manipulations that just makes this a definite time where an elim would manipulate the vote if both are villagers. I've never been a fan of lynching someone no matter what based on one singular happenstance. Anyways with a three way tie an eliminator might be more likely note to vote manipulate and just hope that chance will spare them and make them less guilty looking. Who knows it's awfully risky no matter what