+Aletus he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I'm just sitting here, re-reading the pre-release canon from Words of Radiance, and specifically Dalinar's visions from Takers of Secrets. I can't script this as a full blown theory, as it is simply opinion and thought at this moment. What if Dalinar's vision didn't take place in the Purelake? I have been going over purelake possibilities in my head a lot recently, and I noticed that the Thunderclast came up out of the lake to attack Dalinar's people in his vision. From his conversation with Navani afterwards, he mentioned that the Thunderclast left a rather large impression in the lakebed after it morphed, or came into fruition, or whatever. If we can assume that the purelake was the sight of a major battle, with more than this one singular Thunderclast, wouldn't the lake-bed of the purelake be much more uneven than it is? Of course, over the thousands of years, sediment and other deposits could have evened it out - and resulted in the sharp and uneven, yet somewhat universally depthed purelake that we have today. I have to present another option. What if the lake Dalinar was fighting on was actually the shattered plains that we have today? Think of it, Thunderclast upon thunderclast, ripping their way free of the lake-bed, creating chasms and plateaus, which would have been emphasized after years of erosion from highstorm after highstorm. This would be exacerbated as more and more Thunderclasts or other voidish beings joined the battle. Of course, this only bears merit if the interaction with a single Thunderclast in Dalinar's vision drew out into a full scale desolation style battle. I think we will need to wait for more concrete evidence from further visions - hopefully found in Words of Radiance. But while we think about it - does this bear any merit at all? Are the shattered plains relatively even? I can't remember at this moment. I know some plateaus are higher than others - but could it have been - at one point - a similar geographical location to the purelake? Thoughts? Edited February 12, 2014 by Blackwood 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) The Shattered Plains is a city covered with crem (Eshonai mentions this, and the streets would of course be responsible for the chasms), from my understanding, so I'm not sure it was ever covered with water. Your post is intriguing, though. Why wouldn't the Purelake be a bit more destroyed than it is? Perhaps thousands of years of crem... but no, if crem built up in the Purelake, it wouldn't last as a lake for long. What is up with the Purelake and not having crem buildups? Edited February 12, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Aletus he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks for pointing that out - I had forgotten (currently re-reading cosmere from Elantris on) But yeah, the purelake is a mystery - and I'm very unconvinced that Dalinar's vision took place there, at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 The Shattered Plains is a city covered with crem (Eshonai mentions this, and the streets would of course be responsible for the chasms), from my understanding, so I'm not sure it was ever covered with water. Your post is intriguing, though. Why wouldn't the Purelake be a bit more destroyed than it is? Perhaps thousands of years of crem... but no, if crem built up in the Purelake, it wouldn't last as a lake for long. What is up with the Purelake and not having crem buildups? I doubt the streets are chasms. The art doesn't convey that at all. None of the chasms are anyway near straight lines, and there would have to be some. Instead it looks very much like a place where the ground split. Many of the chasms are shaped like they interlock. In addition its mentioned that eventyally everything on the planes is worn down to spires, something that wouldn't happen if they had once been buildings. It seems more likely that something did in fact shatter and level much of the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well, keep in mind that the Purelake is a very big lake. We also have only a vague idea of how many thunderclasts turned up in a large battle. Add to that, we have little to go on to suggest that the vision is connected to a significant battle that would result in a substantial number (whatever that may be) of thunderclasts. It may simply be an isolated 'spren' that becomes a thunderclast because it was cornered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) I doubt the streets are chasms. The art doesn't convey that at all. None of the chasms are anyway near straight lines, and there would have to be some. Instead it looks very much like a place where the ground split. Many of the chasms are shaped like they interlock. In addition its mentioned that eventyally everything on the planes is worn down to spires, something that wouldn't happen if they had once been buildings. It seems more likely that something did in fact shatter and level much of the city. The Shattered Plains are symmetrical, much like every Dawncity. I see no reason why roads have to be straight. Interlocking chasms supports the theory that they were streets. If an explosion of great magic happened, I find it hard to believe that everything would be symmetrical. As to the spires - it's possible that the spires were just the peaks of buildings, or something. I'm not 100% sure on the theory of the chasms being streets, but I'm pretty sure there's a city under the Shattered Plains at the very least. Edited February 12, 2014 by Moogle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 There is certainly a city there, I'm just guessing that it's mostly worn down. Without regular upkeep Highstorms willdestroy many things. And I can see where they could be roads, but it doesn't feel right... That said, most of the Dawn Cities are built in sheltered locations, It just seems wrong that the plateaus are all hollow to one extent or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 If the entirety of the Shattered plains comprises an ancient city, then that city would be staggeringly large. Kaladin estimates that there are ~100,000 people living in the Alethi camps. If you look at the map of the Shattered Plains, the craters where the Alethi live make up a small portion of the limited section of the plains that is mapped. Such a city would house many millions of people, which is pretty incredible for any ancient city. I struggle with the idea that the entirety of the plains was an ancient city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haxors he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Don't forget that the Purelake "dries up" when a highstorm is approaching, iirc anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Don't forget that the Purelake "dries up" when a highstorm is approaching, iirc anyway Yes, Ishikk expressly says (or rather think-speaks) that the Purelake drains into "pits and holes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brightlord Skybreaker Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I don't think that the whole shattered plains was a city but maybe central portions of it. I've always thought that it was the ruins of Urithiru or some 'gateway' town through which you pass to Urithiru and that it was destroyed either by the spren after the oathpact was broken or by some malevolent force that wanted to erase any trace of Urithiru from the map. The way they describe the destruction radiating from the centre of the plains in WoK always makes me think of a meteor or super powerful radiant smiting the centre of the city to demolish it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser he/him Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) If the entirety of the Shattered plains comprises an ancient city, then that city would be staggeringly large. Kaladin estimates that there are ~100,000 people living in the Alethi camps. If you look at the map of the Shattered Plains, the craters where the Alethi live make up a small portion of the limited section of the plains that is mapped. Such a city would house many millions of people, which is pretty incredible for any ancient city. I struggle with the idea that the entirety of the plains was an ancient city. I think the Eshonai POV excerpt implies that there was a central city in a largely inhabited plains, which matches with Natanatan having been there and having fallen centuries before as Dalinar indicates in Starfalls. Much of the Shattered Plains had once been populated, but the largest city had been here at the center. So now the ruins of her people made their home in the ruins of a dead city. I don't think that the whole shattered plains was a city but maybe central portions of it. I've always thought that it was the ruins of Urithiru or some 'gateway' town through which you pass to Urithiru and that it was destroyed either by the spren after the oathpact was broken or by some malevolent force that wanted to erase any trace of Urithiru from the map. The way they describe the destruction radiating from the centre of the plains in WoK always makes me think of a meteor or super powerful radiant smiting the centre of the city to demolish it. Welcome! Have an introductory upvote! I agree that the central region was a city. The indications seem to be that it was the capital of Natanatan, with the main inhabited areas of Natanatan all around. Since Urithiru is supposedly to the west of Alethkar and unreachable on foot, I don't see how it fits as the city in the center of Natanatan. In the absence of any other indications, I agree that the capitals of the Silver Kingdoms (of which Natanatan is one) would seem like the logical places for the Oathgates. That also means that there might be one near Kholinar. The combination of Jasnah as Elsecaller (the order that has the Transportation surge) and Shallan (who might have ability to detect illusions as part of lightweaving) seems potent for discovering things disguised or protected by illusion. Finding hidden Oathgates seems like it might appeal to Pattern. Edit: added Oathgate stuff Edited February 12, 2014 by hoser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humph Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 With the Purelake draining out from approaching Highstorms, the crem deposited by the rains would have largely filled in depressions and gullies over thousands of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Or maybe the regular drainage of the lake washes crem away with water, so that there's no build up?It's also possible that the water smooths out the crem the same way stones at the bottom of a river can be smoothed out by the running water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts