(Spoilers all) Who are the parshendi gods?

[ICanDream]

Sorry if I'm stupid, but I just need clarification. 

[Agent34]

Nothing's been confirmed but the popular theory is that the Unmade are their gods.

[Nathrangking he/him]

They are speculated to be the unmade though it has been confirmed that they are of Odium.

[Calderis he/him]

Even without any form of confirmation, we know that the Parshendi "gods" (plural) are the source of their "Forms of Power" which are all derived from voidspren. 

This leaves the only viable options as either the Unmade, or the Voidspren themselves. 

Out of those two options, the Unmade seem much more likely to be viewed as gods. 

[Oversleep]

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

Even without any form of confirmation, we know that the Parshendi "gods" (plural) are the source of their "Forms of Power" which are all derived from voidspren. 

This leaves the only viable options as either the Unmade, or the Voidspren themselves. 

Out of those two options, the Unmade seem much more likely to be viewed as gods. 

Haven't they refered to Odium as king of their gods? Since Unmade are Splinters of Odium, it would strongly imply their gods are Unmade.

[Calderis he/him]

4 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

Haven't they refered to Odium as king of their gods? Since Unmade are Splinters of Odium, it would strongly imply their gods are Unmade.

Have they? I don't remember that, but combined with everything else I'd think that's fairly definitive. 

[Andy92]

The Unmade would fit the theme of the entire series.

On one side you have Honor at the top, with 10 Heralds under him, and a group of Surgebinders that bond spren.

On the other side you have Odium at the top, with (9 or 10?) Unmade under him, and a group of Voidbinders that bond with Odium's spren.

It's all symmetrical. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Andy92

[Crucible of Shards he/him]

37 minutes ago, Andy92 said:

It's all symmetrical. 

And as we all know, symmetry is very significant on Roshar.

[Nathrangking he/him]

Considering the WoB which confirmed them to be of Odium Unmade does appear to be the most likely.  @Crucible of Shards observation about the symmetrical theme is spot on which adds significantly to the weight of the evidence which points towards the unmade as the Parshendi gods. Though watch Brandon pull a fast one and throw something at us from left field.

[Andy92]

1 hour ago, Nathrangking said:

Though watch Brandon pull a fast one and throw something at us from left field.

Lol yeah, seems like something he'd do. "The Parshendi worshipped the Heralds, psyche out." 

[+Extesian he/him]

I fully had the Unmade as head canon until Jofwu pointed out this

Quote

 

Smokeform for hiding and slipping between men.
A form of power, like human Surges.
Bring it 'round again.
Though crafted of gods,
It was by Unmade hand.
Leaves its force to be but one of foe or friend.

Song of Histories

WoR ch 25 epigraph

 

[Calderis he/him]

37 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I fully had the Unmade as head canon until Jofwu pointed out this

 

I don't actually take this as disproving the Unmade as the Listener gods. 

I think this is evidence of the Dawnsingers as their gods prior to their corruption into the Unmade (totally baseless headcanon). 

[+Extesian he/him]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't actually take this as disproving the Unmade as the Listener gods. 

I think this is evidence of the Dawnsingers as their gods prior to their corruption into the Unmade (totally baseless headcanon). 

Oh I think it's very much still an open discussion. But it made me realize (from a Discord discussion) there's nothing proving they are the Listener gods and that line is an argument against it. Your dawnshard idea is interesting, I've seen it before from you. I have my doubts because of that fella carrying a dawnshard, known to bind mortal or voidish, up to a temple (that's from memory); doesn't sound like an entity, sounds more like an object. But it's possible from what I know

You should get on Discord bro. It's partly why I post far less now. There are some great discussions and you get them with the argents, pagerunners, blightsongs and of course chaoses and weiries.

Edited August 26, 2017 by Extesian

[Calderis he/him]

11 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Your dawnshard idea is interesting, I've seen it before from you. I have my doubts because of that fella carrying a dawnshard, known to bind mortal or voidish, up to a temple (that's from memory); doesn't sound like an entity, sounds more like an object. But it's possible from what I know

No, I meant the Dawnsingers the Spren. 

[+Extesian he/him]

4 minutes ago, Calderis said:

No, I meant the Dawnsingers the Spren. 

I'm tired, of course you did that makes infinitely more sense. (you should still join Discord)

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Extesian said:

(you should still join Discord)

Trust me, I'm constantly considering it. I'll probably break down and do it at some point, but I really like the forum style ability to respond. I have pms disabled. 

A chat format requires more direct attention, and as much as I spend a lot of time here, I'm constantly doing other things. 

It's less about me not wanting to, because I do, and more about not trusting myself to not live on a chat format that will make it harder to disengage. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Calderis

[+Extesian he/him]

Just now, Calderis said:

Trust me, I'm constantly considering it. I'll probably break down and do it at some point, but I really the forum style ability to respond. I have pms disabled. 

A chat format requires more direct attention, and as much as I spend a lot of time here, I'm constantly doing other things. 

It's less about me not wanting to to, because I do, and more about not trusting myself to not live on a chat format that will make it harder to disengage. 

There's not as much as you think, it takes me way less time each morning to catch up on Discord activity than forum. And a lot is non theorizing that you can skip if you're not into it. But the theorizing discussions can be very worthwhile. And you don't need to be engaged constantly. But we'll see you when it works for you

[Pagerunner he/him]

It has been confirmed that the Listener gods are of Odium.

 

[Oversleep]

What if Dawnsingers were actually... dawnform Listeners?

[Calderis he/him]

The Listener song of secrets makes it pretty clear as well. 

Quote

Our gods were born splinters of a soul, 

Of one who seeks to take control,

Destroys all lands that he beholds, with spite. 

They are his spren, his gift, his price, 

But the nightforms speak of future life, 

A challenged champion. A strife even he must requite

—From the Listener Song Secrets, final stanza 

I don't think it could be any clearer than that without naming Odium. 

56 minutes ago, Oversleep said:

What if Dawnsingers were actually... dawnform Listeners?

Do we actually have any info on them beyond Kabsal's "kindly spren" comment? Anything at all? 

[+Extesian he/him]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

The Listener song of secrets makes it pretty clear as well. 

I don't think it could be any clearer than that without naming Odium. 

Do we actually have any info on them beyond Kabsal's "kindly spren" comment? Anything at all? 

Here are the Dawnsinger text references

Quote

"Surely you know the story, that both glyphs and letters came from the Dawnsingers?” - Kabsal

Quote

“What about the Dawnsingers?” Shallan asked. “What about them?” “Could they have created it?” He chuckled as they arrived at the lift. “That isn’t the kind of thing the Dawnsingers did. They were healers, kindly spren sent by the Almighty to care for humans once we were forced out of the Tranquiline Halls.” “Kind of like the opposite of the Voidbringers.” “I suppose you could say that. - Kabsal

Quote

Talk of the Dawncities had been popular lately among the lighteyes—the idea that certain cities could trace their origins back to the Dawnsingers. Perhaps …

Dailnar

So very little

[Kered he/him]

9 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Here are the Dawnsinger text references

So very little

Isn't it big theory that the Dawncities and Dawnsingers are going to play a big role in defeating Odium, and that's why we have to little info on them? I couldn't find it, but I know I've seen. And if that's the case I don't see them being ancient listeners, I see them as Honors way of combating Odium's Listeners Gods. Am I nuts for thinking that? 

[Calderis he/him]

44 minutes ago, Kered said:

Isn't it big theory that the Dawncities and Dawnsingers are going to play a big role in defeating Odium, and that's why we have to little info on them? I couldn't find it, but I know I've seen. And if that's the case I don't see them being ancient listeners, I see them as Honors way of combating Odium's Listeners Gods. Am I nuts for thinking that? 

There's lots of speculation on the Dawnshards, but other than my thoughts that the Dawnsingers were corrupted into the Unmade, which is admittedly baseless speculation, I've seen nothing on the Dawnsingers. 

[+Extesian he/him]

3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

There's lots of speculation on the Dawnshards, but other than my thoughts that the Dawnsingers were corrupted into the Unmade, which is admittedly baseless speculation, I've seen nothing on the Dawnsingers. 

I still don't have much to add to this, but I assume you've seen this WoP?

Quote

Also, I can’t remember if you asked this question, but about the Unmade, the name means they were previously “made” and then became “de-made” (not that they were never made).

This is to Botanica for translation purposes but certainly indicates the Unmade were in some way made, in the first place, to be what they were (I'm guessing a native Roshar species that was given sentience or some form of power). They are not simply without form.

[Calderis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I still don't have much to add to this, but I assume you've seen this WoP?

This is to Botanica for translation purposes but certainly indicates the Unmade were in some way made, in the first place, to be what they were (I'm guessing a native Roshar species that was given sentience or some form of power). They are not simply without form.

I have. That combined with the few in book references of the Dawnsingers as spren (all past tense or historical) is what planted the seeds that bloomed into this idea I can't uproot.