Am I the only one who found Tyn irritating?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I just remembered her. She wasn't in WoR much, and we will never see her again, but she was extremely unlikeable, in my opinion. She was too full of herself, had a pretty condescending attitude, and felt like a pretty bad person.

Anyone who agrees/disagrees? Thoughts on her?

[Ansalem]

I wasn't crazy about Tyn but I did like Shallan during that part. I didn't hate her, but I got a bit of a "future enemy" vibe from her pretty fast so I was mostly thinking about her as an obstacle more than a character if that makes sense. I was a little surprised how quickly that was resolved, though.

But just generally speaking, whether I like a character or not has little to do with how I think about them as a person. Some of my favorite characters are absolutely vile. I tend to judge more based on how they fit their role in the story. I thought Tyn was decent. A bit forgettable but not terrible.

I agree completely with your assessment of her personality, though. She was dripping with hubris.

[StormblessDave]

Tyn was a piece of crem.

Edited September 18, 2017 by StormblessDave

[Nathrangking he/him]

No @Toaster Retribution you were not. That shardblade through the chest was a mercy as far as I'm concerned she deserved fat worse. 

[Aminar]

Apparently not. I thought she was entertaining. The level of coincidence in Shallan finding her was borderline appalling, but as a character she was unique(or at least of a rarer archetype than most) and thus interesting. 

[+robardin he/him]

57 minutes ago, Aminar said:

Apparently not. I thought she was entertaining. The level of coincidence in Shallan finding her was borderline appalling, but as a character she was unique(or at least of a rarer archetype than most) and thus interesting. 

What coincidence? Tyn was sent by the Ghostbloods to murder Jasnah, and therefore would have been close to hand to determine its success or failure, and Shallan was with Jasnah when the attack occurred. So for Shallan to run into Tyn when she made landfall and started to look for people to help her reach the Alethi warcamps is perfectly reasonable.

But for her Surgebinding, by all rights Shallan should have been killed along with everyone else on the ship, had the attack gone as Tyn had planned; or, as Tyn would have expected, that Shallan died with everyone else on the ship when it sank. So Tyn had no reason to suspect Shallan of being Jasnah's ward, and thus, no reason not to take Shallan's story at face value (boosted by a little Lightweaving for extra believability).

The implausible part might be, if Tyn was so skilled, why didn't she find a way to get on board Jasnah's ship herself (as a deckhand or something), and be present for the attack? I think that speaks to Tyn's nature of hiding in the shadows and working indirectly and/or remotely, which Mraize commented on with some contempt (ultimately noting that they had never admitted Tyn into their membership, and she had been considered "game all along"). 

Edited September 18, 2017 by robardin

[+robardin he/him]

The right way to view Tyn as a character is a portal into the Ghostbloods organization, that they'd use someone like Tyn to further their goals but not admit her to their number, but did admit Shallan's father. What Shallan initially shows them as Veil is a braver, more directly capable version of Tyn - someone who can dissemble, don a disguise and play a convincing role, but also kill to further her goals (as she admitted offing Tyn, not mentioning the self-defense aspect). And as Mraize comments, that persona is who the Ghostbloods think Shallan actually is - "be Veil with us, and Shallan Davar, the conformist Radiant, with them".

 

[Fulminato he/him]

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

The right way to view Tyn as a character is a portal into the Ghostbloods organization, that they'd use someone like Tyn to further their goals but not admit her to their number, but did admit Shallan's father. What Shallan initially shows them as Veil is a braver, more directly capable version of Tyn - someone who can dissemble, don a disguise and play a convincing role, but also kill to further her goals (as she admitted offing Tyn, not mentioning the self-defense aspect). And as Mraize comments, that persona is who the Ghostbloods think Shallan actually is - "be Veil with us, and Shallan Davar, the conformist Radiant, with them".

 

IIRC shallan's father don't had the ghostblood's tattoo, only his prospector.

[+robardin he/him]

7 minutes ago, Fulminato said:

IIRC shallan's father don't had the ghostblood's tattoo, only his prospector.

 

 Yet Mraize counted him as having joined the Ghostbloods when talking to Shallan in Urithiru,  something he explicitly had not so done with Tyn:

Quote

“You don’t know who we are. You don’t know what we’re trying to accomplish. You don’t know much of anything at all, Veil. Why did your father join us? Why did your brother seek out the Skybreakers? I have done some research, you see. I have answers for you.”

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

The fact that Mraize saw Tyn as game all along makes me like him even more.

[+robardin he/him]

55 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The fact that Mraize saw Tyn as game all along makes me like him even more.

Right. "Hate the game, not the player", eh?

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

Right. "Hate the game, not the player", eh?

 

Its mostly general Mraize-love. 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 hours ago, Aminar said:

The level of coincidence in Shallan finding her was borderline appalling

Wish I could upvote this more. It always bothered me that Shallan not only found someone to teach her to be duplicitous and a con-artist but that same person also happened to be the person behind the attack on Jasnah. Oh well. Characters need to develop somehow.

[Aon Ene]

I agree that Tyn was irritating, but I mostly disliked her because of how she influenced Shallan. I guess dishonesty really bothers me. The cons, Tyn's pride, and the boots scene really made me detest her.

[Aminar]

On 9/18/2017 at 8:36 AM, robardin said:

What coincidence? Tyn was sent by the Ghostbloods to murder Jasnah, and therefore would have been close to hand to determine its success or failure, and Shallan was with Jasnah when the attack occurred. So for Shallan to run into Tyn when she made landfall and started to look for people to help her reach the Alethi warcamps is perfectly reasonable.

But for her Surgebinding, by all rights Shallan should have been killed along with everyone else on the ship, had the attack gone as Tyn had planned; or, as Tyn would have expected, that Shallan died with everyone else on the ship when it sank. So Tyn had no reason to suspect Shallan of being Jasnah's ward, and thus, no reason not to take Shallan's story at face value (boosted by a little Lightweaving for extra believability).

The implausible part might be, if Tyn was so skilled, why didn't she find a way to get on board Jasnah's ship herself (as a deckhand or something), and be present for the attack? I think that speaks to Tyn's nature of hiding in the shadows and working indirectly and/or remotely, which Mraize commented on with some contempt (ultimately noting that they had never admitted Tyn into their membership, and she had been considered "game all along"). 

The part where they were in the middle of nowhere. I mean, they're headed to the same place, but within hours of eachother on a roadless plain the size of some countries having them approach at similar times and places is at least 1/1000. Especially seeing Tyn's operatives got onboard days of sea voyage beforehand. And then Tyn was trying to scrub her hands of the whole thing. Her plan was fire and forget. Not watch from the coast to see if it works out. 

[KevinTheHerdazian he/him]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 4:08 PM, Aon Ene said:

I agree that Tyn was irritating, but I mostly disliked her because of how she influenced Shallan. I guess dishonesty really bothers me. The cons, Tyn's pride, and the boots scene really made me detest her.

Partly why I think Shallan should be thunderclasted.

[+Wax he/him]

I'd like to think of her as a brilliantly unlikable character brought on to help Shallan's story progress.  Sort of like Tuvlakov for both Kal and Shallan.