Necessary Eagle she/her Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 So the assumption is that if the Stormfather is bondspren #1, his counterpart the Nightwatcher is bondspren #2. This leaves us with the pressing mystery of who bondspren #3 could be, because the only other shard on Roshar is Odium himself. #3 can't be a Shard's cognitive shadow, unless Odium has a split personality or something. It breaks the pattern, which is why every Sharder and their cat is speculating about it. But is there an actual WoB that the Nightwatcher is #2, or is this just a "it stands to reason" fanon? Because if it's not the Nightwatcher, then maybe there's a different pattern. One that's nice and symmetrical (and we all know how Vorins love symmetry) when we see all the parts. *sends out the WOB Signal, waits for Calderis or Extesian to drop by* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 No, it's not confirmed. I believe it anyway for a couple reasons. The Nightwatcher is the only spren to confirmed to be on the same level of strength/scope/magnitude/whatever word you want to use as the Stormfather. She is confirmed to be connected to Cultivation in the same manner as the Stormfather was connected to Honor before his death (Cultivation is still alive, so no Cognitive Shadow business). And it's confirmed that there are three distinct, unique spren for the Bondsmiths. Considering those things together. If the Nightwatcher isn't one, it's by choice, and not by inability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 We do not know that. We know there are 3 Bondsmith spren but not that the Nightwatcher is one, unless I missed something. I think the Bondsmith spren are probably Adonalsium spren and that cognitive shadows have nothing to do with it, as the Stormfather was not merged with Tanavast's cognitive shadow at the time he was previously bonded to a Radiant. If the Nightwatcher is one I think it's because she's an Adonalsium spren that later became associated with, or influenced by Cultivation. I think the third one will be something similar epic - Highstorms, Nature and...... something else significant to Roshar. My blind guess - stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Taking it a step further - Do we know for certain that the Nightwatcher actually is a spren? To my best recollection, most characters are unsure of her and theorize that she is a spren. But, we have yet to have any scenes with her direct involvement, and all information we have is second hand - and tightly guarded, as the Old magic is supposedly heretical. So the prevailing theory is that she is a spren, a splinter of Cultivation the way the Stormfather is a splinter of Honor, but as far as I know, we have no direct confirmation. It could be as simple as Rosharans saying that any force on the world that they do not fully comprehend must be spren related. And we know that some of their theories are off, like rotspren causing rot, reather than being attracted to rot in unsanitary conditions. So... Unless there is a WOB stating the Nightwatcher is a spren, I remain hesitant to label her as anything other than odd. Because we have seen no other spren capable of doing anything remotely like the boons and curses she doles out. Argument could be that it is similar to Stormfather creating storms, but... There just is not enough data to say she is, yet. That said, yes, I am 80% certain people are right, she is a spren, and is one of the potential bondsmith trio. But if you are looking for certainty, we just don't have it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I assume she's not one of the three, if only because she's too obvious a choice. We assume that since one is the Stormfather, the other two will also be giant superspren, but I don't think that's been directly confirmed either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Stark said: Taking it a step further - Do we know for certain that the Nightwatcher actually is a spren? To my best recollection, most characters are unsure of her and theorize that she is a spren. But, we have yet to have any scenes with her direct involvement, and all information we have is second hand - and tightly guarded, as the Old magic is supposedly heretical. So the prevailing theory is that she is a spren, a splinter of Cultivation the way the Stormfather is a splinter of Honor, but as far as I know, we have no direct confirmation. It could be as simple as Rosharans saying that any force on the world that they do not fully comprehend must be spren related. And we know that some of their theories are off, like rotspren causing rot, reather than being attracted to rot in unsanitary conditions. So... Unless there is a WOB stating the Nightwatcher is a spren, I remain hesitant to label her as anything other than odd. Because we have seen no other spren capable of doing anything remotely like the boons and curses she doles out. Argument could be that it is similar to Stormfather creating storms, but... There just is not enough data to say she is, yet. That said, yes, I am 80% certain people are right, she is a spren, and is one of the potential bondsmith trio. But if you are looking for certainty, we just don't have it yet. We do know that the Nightwatcher is an analogue of the Stormfather, but for Cultivation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Thanks @Pagerunner for the link! Quote EDIT: Looks like someone caught this one already. /u/Ray745, I missed your post below, but here is your answer. Another sketchy one on this list is regarding whether the spren call the nightwatcher Mother or if they're calling cultivation Mother. I don't think the text of the books actually implies either way, despite what I said. (Unless I'm forgetting something.) For those in the know, with the Nightwatcher being an analogue of the Stormfather, that implication is there--but I don't want to confirm it either way. You'll get more on the Nightwatcher and Cultivation, and their relationship, in the books. Emphasis mine. So still not 100% confirmed. But most likely the case. So I am at 82% certain now. but there is still some wiggle room for doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 @Stark Spren is an in world term. It's meaning is debatable. What we tend to use it for is a sentient splinter on Roshar. I think that the first part of this WoB says that she is a spren in the same way the Stormfather is. The rest is relevant because it's about this very issue. It proves just how meaningless the word Spren is in world. Quote Questioner Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather? Brandon Sanderson ...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is. Questioner So the Nightwatcher is a spren you'd say? Brandon Sanderson The Nightwatcher-- I mean, they call the Nightwatcher a spren. Everyone in the books thinks the Nightwatcher is a spren. That's what they would call-- that's what they would call, if they knew what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren. A spren is Investiture that is alive. Bystander Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson So they would call Nightblood a spren. They would call-- That's the word for what all of these things are. They would probably've called Adonalsium a spren… Moderator What would Hoid call one of those? Brandon Sanderson What would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? *laughter* What would Hoid call one of what? Moderator Yeah what would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? Brandon Sanderson Um… *long pause/laughter* Moderator If Hoid were to use a non-proper noun? Brandon Sanderson Unpleasant names. *laughter* So Rosharans would definitely call the Nightwatcher a spren. I think it's safe to assume she's a Splinter of similar magnitude to the Stormfather. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulk he/him Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 my knee-jerk off the wall theory is that the third bondsmith spren will turn out to be the unique spren that Axies ran across in his interlude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax he/him Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 (edited) See - not convinced nightwatcher is cultivation spren. WoB from a rusty corruptible memory says there are 3 magic systems surgebinding voidbinding old magic Lift despite on the cultivation side is a surgebinder. Which makes me think Old Magic and nightwatcher might be something else. Nightwatcher was linked to Old Magic. Happy to be corrected by my friendly sharders. Edited September 27, 2017 by axcellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 27, 2017 Report Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 hour ago, axcellence said: Happy to be corrected by my friendly sharders. Ok, have a correction. The 3 Magic Systems are Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and Fabrials. Quote Question How many magic systems are in The Stormlight Archive, and how many of them [have been seen?] Brandon Sanderson I would see the only major one you haven’t seen is Voidbinding, it depends on how you count them. I count Fabrials as one, Surgebinding as one, and Voidbinding as one. And then the Old Magic is kind of its own weird thing. It doesn't particularly mess with the rest of your post, but having the right details is useful anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galendo Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Do we know the Nightwatcher is a Bondsmith spren? I don't think so, but it seems likely. We know the Stormfather is (one possibility is that the Stormfather accounted for all three Bondsmiths -- it's actually my favorite explanation, but unfortunately probably not true), and the Nightwatcher seems likely. Then again, people might be putting too much emphasis on the fact that the Nightwatcher is the Stormfather's analogue. Remember that the Stormfather was around, (presumably) bonding with Bondsmiths, before Honor's shattering. Though it's also possible that they were bonding directly with Honor, or something. Perhaps my second-favorite theory, and one that's probably more likely, is that the Stormfather and the big giant spren from the Axis interlude (Crustarch?) were bonded to Bondsmiths and got "broken" during the Recreance. Crustarch became mindless, but the Stormfather was spared from that fate by merging with Honor's Cognitive Shadow. It explains why Crustarch doesn't seem to do much and why the Stormfather is so terrified of bonding with Dalinar. The Nightwatcher doesn't have to be the third spren in this case, but she's the only other big spren we've seen so far, so it's quite possible. If so, she might have been protected by Cultivation during the Recreance, but she also needn't have been bonded at the time of the Recreance. Maybe there were only two Bondsmiths at that moment in time. Long story short, though? We just don't know. It could go a number of ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, galendo said: (one possibility is that the Stormfather accounted for all three Bondsmiths -- it's actually my favorite explanation, but unfortunately probably not true) Is not true. Quote Q:The pocket companion states that there are three spren that can bond a person to make them into a bondsmith, the Stormfather being one of them. As far as I recall the books implied that the number was low, and implied heavily that it was around that number in an epigraph, but didn't actually have a straight confirmation. So, should I take that as canon? A:Yes, you can take that as canon. They came to me for that information. 11 minutes ago, galendo said: Axies interlude (Crustarch?) Cusicesh. (Don't worry, I had to look it up to make sure I spelled it right too) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulk he/him Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 6 hours ago, axcellence said: See - not convinced nightwatcher is cultivation spren. I'm not either. Brandon, per one of the posts above, seems to treat the Old Magic as a thing apart, so I'm guessing the NIghtwatcher is a spren who predates the arrival of Honor and Cultivation on the planet and not truly akin to either. It is noteworthy though that Wyndle's people know who she is and find the fact that Lift visited her to be a compelling reason to pursue the bond with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax he/him Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 28 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: Is not true. Cusicesh. (Don't worry, I had to look it up to make sure I spelled it right too) I raised cusicesh earlier and apparently it is lesser spren than Stormfather and nightwatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lidolas he/him Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 13 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: Is not true. That is very interesting. Isn't there another WoB that indicates that some super-spren can bond more than one person? Is that why the Bondsmith number is 3 but not necessarily set at three? The Bond-spren can have multiple KR but don't like to. Stormfather doesn't even seem to really like having one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormfather-in-Law Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 (edited) On 9/25/2017 at 8:40 AM, Necessary Eagle said: *sends out the WOB Signal, waits for Calderis or Extesian to drop by* Quote Calderis Posted Monday at 08:47 AM Quote Extesian Posted Monday at 08:49 AM Wow. Where does one get such power? Edited September 28, 2017 by Stormfather-in-Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Stormfather-in-Law said: Wow. Where does one get such power? The power lies in understanding the nature of addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Stormfather-in-Law said: Wow. Where does one get such power? The key is not power, but luck. You catch Extesian, Calderis or I when we are online, odds are we'll have a response for you. Catch us when we're not, odds are slim until next morning/after work/etc.. (Which is also why my name is no longer included in the "WoB Request Messages", as I'm only on sporadically nowadays.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 5 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: The key is not power, but luck. You catch Extesian, Calderis or I when we are online, odds are we'll have a response for you. Catch us when we're not, odds are slim until next morning/after work/etc.. (Which is also why my name is no longer included in the "WoB Request Messages", as I'm only on sporadically nowadays.) Which is a shame. You can come up with WoBs that Extesian and me can't find for the life of us. You have a different form of mastery than us, and the WoBs you find quickly are just crazy obscure. The only days I've run out of upvotes have been your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necessary Eagle she/her Posted October 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2017 On 9/28/2017 at 1:13 PM, Stormfather-in-Law said: Wow. Where does one get such power? Voidbinding. *eats Stormfather-in-Law's soul* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty he/him Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 I think the third one is "The Ancient of Stone" the Diagram mentions. "The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 12 minutes ago, Humpty said: I think the third one is "The Ancient of Stone" the Diagram mentions. "The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia" An interesting idea, but that line is almost certainly referring to Taln, called Stonesinew, who has been trapped alone in Braize for the 4500 years since the Prelude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpty he/him Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 Ah yeah your right I forgot about him.....i haven't been smoking crack i swear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Wax he/him Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) On 28/09/2017 at 8:27 AM, The One Who Connects said: Ok, have a correction. The 3 Magic Systems are Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and Fabrials. It doesn't particularly mess with the rest of your post, but having the right details is useful anyway On further thought why isn't the stormform not considered as a different voif form? Edited October 8, 2017 by axcellence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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