Fulminato he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, the_archduke said: Shallan referred to the mural of Honor and Cultivation as pagan. She apparently got the reference or recognized Cultivation as being from some other belief system than Vorinism. Do we know of any faith tradition, that Vorins call pagan, that worships or reveres Cultivation? yes, jasnah was quite clear: “So you believe Namar’s theory on spren categorization?” “Yes.” “Good,” Jasnah said. “As do I. I suspect, personally, that these groupings of spren—emotion spren versus nature spren—are where the ideas of mankind’s primeval ‘gods’ came from. Honor, who became Vorinism’s Almighty, was created by men who wanted a representation of ideal human emotions as they saw in emotion spren. Cultivation, the god worshipped in the West, is a female deity that is an embodiment of nature and nature spren. WoR chapter 3 "Pattern" Edited October 31, 2017 by Fulminato 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 23 minutes ago, DSC01 said: -Question: Are we sure that the one mural that Shallan describes is supposed to be the painting of Ishar from the endpapers? There are a lot of things that indicate that it is not Ishar. 1) Shallan mentions the depictions of Heralds. They are recognizable as such to her, so it would be weird to have Ishar be the only one she can't recognize. 2) The picture is alongside Honor and Cultivation, so Odium would make the most sense, even if he doesn't look hateful. 3) The book describes a disc, while the painting shows a moon. Shallan knows what a moon is. I realize that there can be some discrepancy between what an artist creates and what a book describes, so this is a weaker point, but it still doesn't seem to work to me. The book specifically says "a solitary figure" (emphasis mine). This matches with Odium's intent to be the only remaining Shard eventually and does not match with the picture of Ishar standing in front of a bunch of guys, with the disc of the moon behind him. It sounds like the disc represents the Cosmere, and Odium trying to wrap his arms around it and possess it all, as the only power left in the universe. Agree that it is not the Oilsworn drawing of Ishar, for the reasons you suggested and because the piece is only several hundred years old in-universe. The blue disc mural displays shocking similarities to one found in Elantris, with many key details (floating in air, arms outstretched) the same between the two. That one was a depiction of worldhopping; I think this one is, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveLate Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stark said: I thought this theory already existed in some form? That each of the nine previous desolations were caused by a different Herald breaking under torture, shifting from a Herald to a fool. An unmade per broken Herald would be an extension to that. If its not a thread yet, please make it so! If true, there may be a new, baby unmade for the breaking of Taln appearing soon... That is one of my pet theories....it can be found in the Heralds become fool's thread in the signature. Edited October 31, 2017 by FiveLate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourth Of The Night Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Stark said: Also, Dalinar and Lift have a lot in common. She used a throne as a stool to look in high cupboards for food. He stuck a chair to a wall to look into an air vent and see a rodent. Hey now, minks are not rodents, they are Mustelids, and a beautiful example of a Mustelid at that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Hmm, now I'm wondering, because it makes a kind of sense: If Re-Shephir was imprisoned (at Urithiru?), does that make her the Unmade that's able to mold the listeners into other forms, since Re-Shephir can "create" Midnight Essence to mimic what already exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernem he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 27 minutes ago, vividox said: I'm guessing Dalinar flashback and Kaladin. I would like another flashback, but I think Unfettered II had the flashbacks from part 1, and we've gotten all of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigalemesh he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: Agree that it is not the Oilsworn drawing of Ishar, for the reasons you suggested and because the piece is only several hundred years old in-universe. The blue disc mural displays shocking similarities to one found in Elantris, with many key details (floating in air, arms outstretched) the same between the two. That one was a depiction of worldhopping; I think this one is, as well. Oh I didn't know that was about worldhopping, is there something about that somewhere? I assumed it was about people entering the pool to be disolved as we are shown in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagerunner he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Gigalemesh said: Oh I didn't know that was about worldhopping, is there something about that somewhere? I assumed it was about people entering the pool to be disolved as we are shown in the book. It can be found here. The main characters didn't actually interpret the mural correctly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigalemesh he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 9 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: It can be found here. The main characters didn't actually interpret the mural correctly. Ah thanks, hadn't seen that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, axcellence said: I think I am begining to get enough material now to do an Oathbringer Part 1 parody. well, somebody will have to revive the "if the stormlight archive was the wheel of time" thread. can't be done right now because oathbringer spoilers are not allowed outside of this subboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flying_shadow she/her Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, king of nowhere said: "if the stormlight archive was the wheel of time" thread That sounds awesome. Link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_archduke he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 30 minutes ago, Fulminato said: yes, jasnah was quite clear: “So you believe Namar’s theory on spren categorization?” “Yes.” “Good,” Jasnah said. “As do I. I suspect, personally, that these groupings of spren—emotion spren versus nature spren—are where the ideas of mankind’s primeval ‘gods’ came from. Honor, who became Vorinism’s Almighty, was created by men who wanted a representation of ideal human emotions as they saw in emotion spren. Cultivation, the god worshipped in the West, is a female deity that is an embodiment of nature and nature spren. WoR chapter 3 "Pattern" Good find. But where in the West? We get no indication that Cultivation is worshiped in Shinovar. Aimia is supposedly uninhabited. Iri worships the One. Azir worships Yaezir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kalinovsky said: That sounds awesome. Link? I was feeling linking a thread I started would be crass. but then, I advertised it anyway, so here is the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kered he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Aleksiel said: I find it interesting dead Blades have a level of awereness on their own Not sure what that oath is, though, and it's interesting the spren feels hate. However, I take it as foreshadowing one that doesn't hate and its bearer has kept their oaths might be revived, as we have again the question if it's possible to do so. Mistborn spoilers? Spoiler Maybe it's like Preservation after he used his mind to trap Ruin? He was dead but some aspect of his being remained. We know it's really hard to utterly destroy something that was born in the Cognitive Realm, right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I was kind of surprised to see Shallan use her Radiant skills in an all out combat situation. I would have assumed more of a supportive role form Lightweavers and obviously they would be good at subterfuge but not all out combat. Kind of reminds me of a Mesmer from GW2. It was cool to see and now I want to see more Radiants action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari-no-sugata Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Wittiest man alive said: So will Dalinar eventually use the Stormfather’s dream share ability to communicate with Kaladin since he has been off the grid for so long? One slight worry - is it possible that the local Odium spren might get in the way? I'm not suggesting that it's likely but you never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard she/her Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Poor Dalinar is going to be exhausted after each highstorm. Communicating with every single leader plus his radiants not in Urithiru while the highstorm makes the passes. As an aside...how cool would it be if Tezim is Ishar and Dalinar meets him by trying to hook him into a vision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariapapadia she/her Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kalinovsky said: Today's epigraphs tell us that the author is considered a monster. Mr. T? Eshonai? Neither have been between realms, so that doesn't fit. Damnation, we better find out the author next week! Actually, I think a lot of people might consider Dalinar a monster for his earlier years and how he won Oathbringer. I know the Alethi seems to respect his strenght and power from those times, but as we see now, the other nations aren't that trustfull of him maybe because of those reasons. Anyway, my point is at this moment I think Dalinar seems like a good canditate. 6 hours ago, dantlee said: It was pretty cool that the endpaper illustrations were being described in-world just a few days after we saw them... I had a mini nerdgasm when I read Jezrien's mural being described by Shallan. I thought so too, first. But then it got me thinking that the paitings are made by 2 different artists even in the book, so I doubt that the endpapers are the murals Shallan was describing. It seems like such a bit piece of the Heralds would be made by a single artist, but who knows ? 5 hours ago, Nymeros said: Bridge Fooouuurrrrrrrr now with a woman? .....who is this chick that Bridge 4 would accept her? Good to know I am not the only one confused by her ! I thought I missed something obvious, who is this girl?! Where did she come from and when did she appear ? 5 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: I can see Shallan being the Champion, but at the same time, both Kaladin and Dalinar have been hateful too. That said, a connection to an Unmade and strong current hatred doesn´t bode well. She is one of the most likely ones, as of now. It's very fitting how someone mentioned a couple of weeks ago, that every week there is a new candidate for Odium's champion and now Shallan is the nominee. I don't see it. Ahhh! Sorry for my previous mention. I am stupid. It's actually in your post the part about Kaladin and Dalinar I don't know what I was thinking. Kaladin and Dalinar also had hate within themselves. Everyone has a little bit of that, especially Shallan who grew up so traumatized. I think this is part of her arc, that she has to overcome those feelings and make peace with herself. I doubt we'll have an Anakin Skywalker situation when it comes to Odium's champion. 5 hours ago, dendrophobe said: Good point, but the thing now knows her. To the core. If it can manage to pry Pattern free and bond Shallan in his place, that could very well turn her to Odium's side whether she wanted it or not. We have no idea what the effect would be of a Radiant-Unmade bond. But I would think such a thing would be easier now that the Unmade knows her. I don't think it actually knows her. It got stuck with me, that exactly on the point where the thing was close of seeing the true Shallan in her entireity, she lied . Quote Shallan hung on, pressing herself against the enemy, but realization washed over her—the understanding that this thing was going to know her completely, discover each and every one of her secrets. Her ferocity and determination wavered; her commitment began to seep away. So she lied. She insisted that she wasn’t afraid. She was committed. She’d always been that way. She would continue that way forever. Power could be an illusion of perception. Even within yourself. Re-Shephir broke. It screeched, a sound that vibrated through Shallan. A screech that remembered its imprisonment and feared something worse. The way I read it, it was precisely because Shallan didn't give in on showing herself fully, she kept a part of herself hidden, the part that showed her vulnerable and afraid, and the creature couldn't resist in face of that, so it gave in. Maybe I'm interpreting a bit wrong, but I feel like the fact that Shallan's connection with Pattern couldn't be broke by that, shows that it's not that easy or likely for a spren-bond to break, because of a third party. IMO if they bond breaks, it will be because of Shallan, like it almost was before and like it was with Kaladin. I feel like the story is progressing faster now that we are approaching the end of part one. In a way I will miss this, reading the comments every week and having something to look forward to. I feel like after 14th of November, I won't look forward to anything and I'll just have to go back to real life. But I am more ready than ever for this book to come out already ! I feel like almost everyone week I find another analogy for one scene or another, but did anyone else remember that scene from Spiderman(the cartoon) where Spiderman was fighting Venom? That's what Shallan's interaction with Mother Midnight felt for me. Pretty interesting though. I am glad Dalinar is not going to war to unite the nations, I feel like there are already too many things happening with the Everstorm and the Voidbringers and everything else. Also I am more interested in following other events, than neverending battles for unification. While I don't have a problem with the present Dalinar, so far his chapters were kind of meh for me, I find reading about the old one and exploring how he became the man he is now, more interesting. The talk between Dalinar and Mr. T was interesting though. Edited October 31, 2017 by mariapapadia 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fourth Of The Night Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Everyone who is forgetting who Lyn is: I'm pretty sure she's the scout that was introduced at the end of WoR, and I believe is a fan insert character that Brandon did. I don't have that info handy, but I remember seeing that somewhat recently. Edit: It's actually super easy, haha. She's on the coppermind. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Lyn Edited October 31, 2017 by Fourth Of The Night 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariapapadia she/her Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Stark said: I got that impression as well. Rather than dropping veil, she dropped some of the clothes and painted a Shallan Mask over the veil. Mask on top of mask. Mask-ception. Now my mind is seeing Shallan wearing a green mask and yellow suit... Which is why her mind rebelled. Why waste more light creating a mask of your own face to go over another mask, unless you are really beginning to dissociate from yourself and can't quite figure out which is the real you. It is also worth discussing why Re-Shepir ignored her. Yes, she is a Lightweaver, like that which imprisoned and hurt her in the past. But, still. There were no midnight Shallan's in the Horde. Why not? Is it because of that fear? If so, that is a huge gimme for the good guys. "I will not imitate the one person here I actually have reason to fear." Or, is it that Shallan's personality is so much in flux, versus everyone else's relatively static personality, and contiguous appearance, theat Re-Shepir cannot make a Shallan image, especially given her weakness at producing proper images? That's exactly what I was thinking ! I also thought it was a bit wierd that it was trying to imitate people that weren't there, which means it had time to study everyone. I think the creature has to know a bit of someone's personality to imitate it. If there was only a matter of appearence then it could have copied Shallan's phisical form as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulk he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Re-Shephir doesn't appear to be intelligent as we would say. Not fully sentient or self-aware or whatever. In such a case, fear would be a huge motivator to flee, because they don't have the mental faculties to come up with a way around that fear. It's easy to imagine an animal that is trying to drive off rather than to kill who then recognizes one of the ones attacking it as one that harmed it in the greatest way possible and then fleeing mindlessly as a result. It's the same reasoning for why Odium would agree to a champion fight - he fears pain. He'd win any fight between him and a non-shard but he doesn't want anymore pain. Re-Spephir fears the pain or imprisonment enough to run from a fight it could otherwise win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormingTexan he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 47 minutes ago, mariapapadia said: I feel like the story is progressing faster now that we are approaching the end of part one. In a way I will miss this, reading the comments every week and having something to look forward to. I feel like after 14th of November, I won't look forward to anything and I'll just have to go back to real life. But I am more ready than ever for this book to come out already ! I'm feeling the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wittiest man alive Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, kari-no-sugata said: One slight worry - is it possible that the local Odium spren might get in the way? I'm not suggesting that it's likely but you never know... I don’t think the spren can interfere just due to the Stormfather’s power. It would probably give him away as dropping to the ground during a highstorm muttering in different languages probably would set off a few red flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainRyan he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Stark said: It is also worth discussing why Re-Shepir ignored her. Yes, she is a Lightweaver, like that which imprisoned and hurt her in the past. But, still. There were no midnight Shallan's in the Horde. Why not? Is it because of that fear? If so, that is a huge gimme for the good guys. "I will not imitate the one person here I actually have reason to fear." Or, is it that Shallan's personality is so much in flux, versus everyone else's relatively static personality, and contiguous appearance, theat Re-Shepir cannot make a Shallan image, especially given her weakness at producing proper images? My impression is that Re-Sephir ignored Shallan because Shallan was encased, head to toe, in Stormlight (she created a lightweaving of herself to hide that she was Veil from Adolin right before descending into the pit). Re-Sephir could not find her because of the lightweaving... maybe? It, somehow, interfered with whatever mechanism Re-Sephir used to mimic people. @mariapapadia Tagging you as I think you quoted the same portion but I was too lazy to double quote haha 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 hours. i truly will never catch up on Oathbringer theories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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