Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) Ok. @Stark had this great idea. Essentially, as each Herald broke, ODIUM made an Unmade from it. This would support an idea that a 10th Unmade has been made, making this truly the final Desolation. Each of the Heralds have been broken. This would mean each of the Unmade have an Analogue, so speculate away. Ok to address a major point people have against the theory- The Bondsmiths are an odd order, yes. But Ishar wasn't, and he was the one who broke, the one the Unmade would have its analogue based on. Edited October 31, 2017 by Steeldancer I just realized i misnamed the topic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I like it. It fits thematically, with everything having something to do with number ten. I don´t remember who suggested it but I also like the idea that the Champion is the tenth Unmade. And this Desolation is supposed to be the Final Desolation, so everything works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Does this mean that the Unmade are not the listener gods? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Ah, thanks for making a thread for this! We definitely need to find out if there have only been 9 Desolations in the past... The way this is set up, with the Everstorm and whatnot, this is clearly the True Last Desolation, the True Aharietiam. Which brings me to my speculation... If there is a 10th Unmade running around now, I propose that it is the Everstorm. Or perhaps an Unmade who controls the Everstorm, similar to how the Stormfather can control/call the Highstorms. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, dendrophobe said: Ah, thanks for making a thread for this! We definitely need to find out if there have only been 9 Desolations in the past... The way this is set up, with the Everstorm and whatnot, this is clearly the True Last Desolation, the True Aharietiam. Which brings me to my speculation... If there is a 10th Unmade running around now, I propose that it is the Everstorm. Or perhaps an Unmade who controls the Everstorm, similar to how the Stormfather can control/call the Highstorms. I had been throwing that around in Discord. But I think it'll be an analogue to Taln. Which... idk what that would look like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyperson Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) @dendrophobe Like the Rider of Storms? Edited October 31, 2017 by bleeder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, Steeldancer said: I had been throwing that around in Discord. But I think it'll be an analogue to Taln. Which... idk what that would look like. Oh. Darn. I'm not on Discord, so I was hoping that was a new theory. Oh well. But it could still have to do with Taln. If they're twisted opposites... Taln is a Stoneward. What's opposite of stone? Sky. What's in the sky? The Everstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, dendrophobe said: Oh. Darn. I'm not on Discord, so I was hoping that was a new theory. Oh well. But it could still have to do with Taln. If they're twisted opposites... Taln is a Stoneward. What's opposite of stone? Sky. What's in the sky? The Everstorm. Ah. Ok. That works! I'm getting really excited about this theory. If I'm right, this is SO COOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 That would be cool. The everstorm has been mentioned to have an almost malevolent, almost sentient feel to it, as if it is being directed. So maybe the unmade directs the storm, and the storm is the unmade's version of midnight essence? 3 minutes ago, dendrophobe said: What's in the sky? The Everstorm. Yeah, I'm super excited at the idea of one unmade for each Herald. Though, I also like the idea of the new, tenth being the champion, a Radiant who was corrupted, rebonded to the nine and made un-Radiant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Stark said: Though, I also like the idea of the new, tenth being the champion, a Radiant who was corrupted, rebonded to the nine and made un-Radiant... It is very interesting how the Unmade was trying to break Shallan's bond with Pattern and replace him. I really want to see this happen now. It reminds me of WOT spoilers Spoiler 13 Myrddraal / 13 Black Ajah turning channelers to the Shadow against their will, which was mentioned in one of the first books, and then just sat on Chekov's mantle for 12 or so books. I think we'll eventually see this in a similar way. But I don't know that it'll be the Champion. I think that will be unique; otherwise you could have 9 of them running around, having each having bonded one of the Unmade. Edited October 31, 2017 by dendrophobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 The Champion might bond all nine considering how he was described. Or swap between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, ScavellTane said: The Champion might bond all nine considering how he was described. Or swap between them. Hmm, now that I'd buy. That sounds... Extremely dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 What if Odiums Champion is in the center of the Everstorm, and controls it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dendrophobe he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: What if Odiums Champion is in the center of the Everstorm, and controls it? Possible, but part of me can't help but think we need to know Odium's champion. If it's just another dark monster to fight, there's not nearly as much emotional turmoil. Let it be someone we know, someone we love, who tragically fell. They're still in there, they could be redeemed. But in the meantime, they're doing horrible, horrible things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, ScavellTane said: Does this mean that the Unmade are not the listener gods? This is one of my biggest hold ups with this new theory. It would require the first Desolation to occur without the listeners having any gods. Additionally, the Unmade are always described as ancient, by beings who existed before the Desolations ended (even if they weren't sapient). It sounds like the Unmade predate the Desolations. And! There's WoB that 9 is an important number for Odium/Braize. It seems to me that would be something intrinsic to the Shard, not something that gets updated after every lost Desolation. My conclusion is that this one Unmade per broken Herald theory has a maximum shelf life of 2 weeks. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Salkara said: This is one of my biggest hold ups with this new theory. It would require the first Desolation to occur without the listeners having any gods. Additionally, the Unmade are always described as ancient, by beings who existed before the Desolations ended (even if they weren't sapient). It sounds like the Unmade predate the Desolations. And! There's WoB that 9 is an important number for Odium/Braize. It seems to me that would be something intrinsic to the Shard, not something that gets updated after every lost Desolation. My conclusion is that this one Unmade per broken Herald theory has a maximum shelf life of 2 weeks. I agree, i don't know how to reconcile the 9 thing. But I never thought that they weren't ancient. And never said they came after the desolations. This says that they came about as a result of the desolations, because each desolation started (or so my thinking goes) when another Herald broke under the torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScavellTane Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 (edited) ignore. Edited October 31, 2017 by ScavellTane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 First of all, I want to say, my apologies for my seemingly weird comments @Steeldancer, I didn't realize how much talk in the thread there was about the subject. As for the theory of one Herald breaking every time, and each one causing a Desolation with each time a new Unmade... Maybe. I'm not convinced, but I could see it being the case, though I do also think that @Salkara makes some good points against it. 55 minutes ago, Steeldancer said: Ah. Ok. That works! I'm getting really excited about this theory. If I'm right, this is SO COOL I don't think it does, to be honest. Taln is related to the Surges of Cohesion and Tension. Though we haven't actually seen these Surges in action, they're both named after chemical interactions that are quite common and understood in real life, and therefore are most likely related to these interactions. Cohesion is about how much molecules in liquids and gases attract each other, while Tension is about how strongly connected atoms in solids are. While the Order is called the "Stonewards", I think this is mostly because the Tension Surge allows them to strengthen materials (they share this Surge with the Bondsmiths, who have a special place in the Orders). I would also argue that it is hard in general to have an opposite of these two Surges - both are about the strength of bonds, not the existence of it (that's what we've got Division for) - but either way it doesn't seem likely that the Everstorm would be the Unmade caused by it, or really an Unmade at all. It's the counterpart of a highstorm, if anything, but if you can connect highstorms to any of the Orders it's the Bondsmiths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Well my theory gets chucked if a have any different number of desolations than 9, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliverofnone Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 48 minutes ago, dendrophobe said: Possible, but part of me can't help but think we need to know Odium's champion. If it's just another dark monster to fight, there's not nearly as much emotional turmoil. Let it be someone we know, someone we love, who tragically fell. They're still in there, they could be redeemed. But in the meantime, they're doing horrible, horrible things. If the Everstorm is the opposite of the Highstorm, and if it is similarly a spren, then the champion of Odium can be the one who binds the Everstorm. If it turns out the the Everstorm is the final Unmade, I like this theory, we saw in today's chapters that KR can supplant a nahel bond. Which means one of the characters we have seen already can become the Champion. The champion of Odium, would be an surgebinder of Odium, and an opposite of the Bondsmiths. Kinda fits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Nah, upon further thought, if the everstorm is the unmade, it's just a vessel for the unmade, and is unrelated to the bondsmiths. If there's a 10th unmade, according to my theory, it should be more related to the Stonewards. So... maybe the stone of shin will turn against them or something. Idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidWayne he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 I still think this is the most valid version of this theory. It isn't the herald's or the KR it's the desolations and Odium upping the ante with a new unmade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salkara Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Steeldancer said: I agree, i don't know how to reconcile the 9 thing. But I never thought that they weren't ancient. And never said they came after the desolations. This says that they came about as a result of the desolations, because each desolation started (or so my thinking goes) when another Herald broke under the torture. I'd argue that this relies on the Unmade not being the listener gods: Quote The betrayal of spren has brought us here. They gave their Surges to human heirs, But not to those who know them most dear, before us. ’Tis no surprise we turned away Unto the gods we spent our days And to become their molding clay, they changed us. - Listener Song of Secrets, 40th Stanza I guess it comes down to the question of which came first: a broken Herald or the Desolations. If a Herald had to break before the first Desolation started, then this theory would allow for an Unmade to exist and bind the listeners. If the Heralds weren't sent off to daily torture sessions until after the first Desolation ended, none would have broken prior to the start, and under this theory, that means no Unmade would exist, which would mean no Voidbringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeros Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Okay, so: 1 What is being Unmade? 2 Why didn't Odium just make 10 splinters from the start since all of the Heralds would have broken before the 2nd Desolation? 3 How do the Unmade relate to the Heralds exactly besides being the strongest on Team Evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted October 31, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, Salkara said: I'd argue that this relies on the Unmade not being the listener gods: I guess it comes down to the question of which came first: a broken Herald or the Desolations. If a Herald had to break before the first Desolation started, then this theory would allow for an Unmade to exist and bind the listeners. If the Heralds weren't sent off to daily torture sessions until after the first Desolation ended, none would have broken prior to the start, and under this theory, that means no Unmade would exist, which would mean no Voidbringers. To address that, i guess we'd have to turn to the "humanity are refugees from Braize" theory. Also at that point we would need to understand more about the Oathpact itself, which I sort of think effects how things play out in my theory. But I imagine it's something like Odium came to Braize and chased humanity around, then started torturing the Heralds. As he tortured the Heralds, one of them broke. Here's when we need a better understanding of the Oathpact, because somehow Odium hacks this break to 1. Create a desolation 2. Create an unmade. Or, maybe the unmade comes first after the break, and that's how the desolation started. The unmade acts as the Parshendi "God", and turns them all into voidbringers. Do I make any sense at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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