Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) So, in the final Shallan chapter we get the idea that Unmade were people once. Sounds cool to me. Do you guys buy this as well? And how were they created in that case? And why? So many questions, and the answers are one week away. Edited November 7, 2017 by Toaster Retribution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernem he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think it's possible. It would be neat if Rayse turned his friends into Unmade like (mistborn spoiler) Spoiler Rashek did with with the Kandra. But the Unmade really intrigue me and are one of the things that I'm most looking forward to learning about next week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 The name itself seems to imply something like a human being "unmade" into something less than human. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Crabs Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I couldnt help but think of the parallel between the unmade and Tolkien's Nazgul. 9 of them who used to be human but were broken and twisted by the power of their dark lord?! So much happened today! It was the perfect cliffhanger and we only have a week left to wait. I was actually struck by shallan's line about "It's just normal to us" or something close. Presumably some of the everyday magical effects around roshar will now be attributed to more of the unmade and possibly changed or removed as they are fought or captured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Head Crabs said: Presumably some of the everyday magical effects around roshar will now be attributed to more of the unmade and possibly changed or removed as they are fought or captured. The day when they discover that chouta is of Odium... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Crabs Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said: The day when they discover that chouta is of Odium... Only if it has cremling claws mixed in. Otherwise you can still practice vorinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Invested Beard Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said: The day when they discover that chouta is of Odium... Don't you dare. Meat chunks in gravy wrapped in flatbread could never be evil. NEVER. Edited November 7, 2017 by The Invested Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said: Don't you dare. Meat chunks in gravy wrapped in flatbread could never be evil. NEVER. I agree. But the Unmade could corrupt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 She thinks people as a question. She guessing. All I think it confirms is they were something else before. I'm sticking with the corrupted Dawnsingers idea. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Corrupted Herald oath idea 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I am honestly throwing around with the idea that the Unmade are somehow a 'shadow' of the Heralds. I am not sure I agree with the theory floating around about the Unmade were created whenever a Herald broke and started a Desolation, but some of the comments in Shallan's chapter provide some credence the idea that the Unmade and Heralds are at least related. For example: Quote People sang about Re-Shephir in poetry and epics, describing her as a dark, beautiful figure. Paintings depicted her as a black-clad woman with red eyes and a sultry gaze. Sounds like Shallash to me. Quote It made Shallan wonder if this spren wasn’t merely trying to understand humankind, but rather searching for something it itself had lost. Had this creature—in distant, distant time beyond memory—once been human? All of this is curious to me. I don't know that I can firmly say that I believe the Unmade are corrupted portions of the Heralds, but I am being swayed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernem he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, WildSpeculation said: Sounds like Shallash to me. It could also be that people just matched up the Unmade with the herald that seemed to fit closest. What we've seen of Re-Shephir isn't close to the poems and epics. Perhaps people took "midnight mother" and "beautiful herald" and made a connection that wasn't there. The mismatch in number makes me think that there isn't a straightforward correlation. Quote but rather searching for something it itself had lost. Maybe it lost sapience, and that's what it is trying to understand in Humans. Maybe it was just a sapient spren turned into an "animalistic" spren. Perhaps it started out as a listener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I sort of imagine it's a piece of the Heralds, separated from its context. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhein Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 What if the unmade are the Heralds? Disillusioned by the repeated tortured they endured at the hands of Rayse, they broke their oaths and joined the enemy. 9 Unmade for the 9 Heralds that were left. Taln is the exception. Would that be enough to break all of the orders and cause the Recreance? This is all conjecture, but itd be interesting. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Crabs Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Im in the camp that they are based on the heralds still. They had to return to braize over and over. Odium had ample time to study them during the torment. He probably understands the heralds better than anyone other than what honor knew. And then odium used them as a template to create his princes in opposition to their powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvoraen Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rhein said: What if the unmade are the Heralds? Disillusioned by the repeated tortured they endured at the hands of Rayse, they broke their oaths and joined the enemy. 9 Unmade for the 9 Heralds that were left. Taln is the exception. Would that be enough to break all of the orders and cause the Recreance? This is all conjecture, but itd be interesting. This isn't possible, as Yelig-nar existed long before the Heralds forswore their oaths, as stated in Dalinar's vision with Nohadon present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Plus the Heralds are still around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wreith he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I think they're Parshendi or possibly Dawnsingers (who themselves may be Parshendi by some theories). This largely because of Rlain's description of his gods as Quote ...the souls of those ancient...who gave themselves to destroy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, dvoraen said: This isn't possible, as Yelig-nar existed long before the Heralds forswore their oaths, as stated in Dalinar's vision with Nohadon present. Unless, the Unmade came back WITH the Heralds every Desolation. It was only after the broke their oaths that the Unmade separated from the Heralds causing Re-Shephir to search for that piece it lost and perhaps to lose that bit of sapience. Similar to how Syl and Patern get 'smarter' as their bond grows stronger. If the Heralds are 'bonded' to the Unmade and breaking their oaths separated them, This could explain it. I know the timelines of centuries doesn't add up to the prelude, but I always assumed that there was less time and fewer Desolations than modern day Vorinism claims. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildSpeculation he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Wreith said: I think they're Parshendi or possibly Dawnsingers (who themselves may be Parshendi by some theories). This largely because of Rlain's description of his gods as Oh double post because I like your theory as well! This makes sense when combined with the connection I was trying to make in my post. The Unmade were the 'anti-heralds' of the Parshendi. When the Bondsmith broke the Listeners and made them Parshmen, it caused Re-Shephir to lose that piece of her. I can't wait to see what version is true! That is part of what I love about these books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazBolt Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 i think the "they were people" is speculation on Shallan's part. Im still partial to the Unmade having been Dawnsingers. Which Im thinking were basically ancient super-spren, possibly with more self-awareness which would make them more person-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 (edited) Given the Unmade are Fused/Parshendi/Listener Gods, I would venture that perhaps they may be the OG Dawnsingers (once known as kindly spren) as @Calderis suggests and were eventually Unmade by Odium (it would explain Tanavast's comment about not having the Dawnsinger's any more) or that they were first bonded to a Listener and then Unmade. (It all depends on how you interpret the Listener song) Edited November 7, 2017 by ParadoxicalZen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Dawnsingers = Listeners" theory, but my first thought was that Shallan's feelings about Re-Shephir provide additional evidence for the theory that the Unmade are ancient listeners who had given themselves to Odium, in a manner similar (but not identical) to how the Heralds have given themselves to Honor. The souls of a few ancient listeners, infused with Odium's investiture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperstones he/him Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Do we have any knowledge or WoB of the Unmade and Voidbinder relationship? Is there any similarity to how Surgebinders are "copies" of the Heralds? It appears that the Fused are corrupted versions of the KR. With the KR a bond is formed but with the Fused I think the Voidspren "fuses" to the listeners cognitive self and takes over. Could this be what made the Unmade? Splinters of Odium Fused to a Great Spren and unmade their Cognitive self? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Investor Posted November 8, 2017 Report Share Posted November 8, 2017 It could be that the unmade were not human. They were "something" that was unmade and reforged into their current forms. But something about that passage made me think that the choice of humans was a diversion. It possible, but they could have been other things. Perhaps ancient spren, corrupted by Odium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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