[OB] - The Cosmeric implications of Oathbringer's ending

[Noblehunter]

Speaking of Connection, that was what needed in the Secret History for the outlanders to pick up Preservation. It also happens to be one of the Bondsmith's particular powers. I'm going with Dalinar Connected with the splinters of Honor for a moment but if he ever gets (enough of?) them back together, they'll be a shard with the intent of Unity, which similar to but not the same as Honor (when it refers to the making and keeping of oaths).

[Naurock]

@rdog2213 I guess I'd side with option 1, but mostly calling him a mini sliver like you say at the end. From what I remember of that scene there were TONS of gloryspren circling him, and the copper mind says spren are a fragment of the power of creation. So he grabbed all this free floating investiture and created a brief perpendicularity.

 

[Cenanin]

It has to do with the Gloryspren I am sure. They are probably splinters of Honor. Dalinar did something so glorious in refusing Odium, that the splinters of Honor coalesced into him and he ascended. I think he holds at least most of Honor at this point. 
Like the stormfather said "How? This never happened before." Because Honor hadn't been splintered until up until somewhere right before or right after the Recreance, so there were no Honor splinters. Basically I'm pretty sure that Dalinar has almost completely reforged Honor and has taken up the shard. Obviously every splinter of Honor aren't going to hold enough investiture to become sentient spren. 

[Matt Snow he/him]

33 minutes ago, Cenanin said:

It has to do with the Gloryspren I am sure. They are probably splinters of Honor. Dalinar did something so glorious in refusing Odium, that the splinters of Honor coalesced into him and he ascended. I think he holds at least most of Honor at this point. 
Like the stormfather said "How? This never happened before." Because Honor hadn't been splintered until up until somewhere right before or right after the Recreance, so there were no Honor splinters. Basically I'm pretty sure that Dalinar has almost completely reforged Honor and has taken up the shard. Obviously every splinter of Honor aren't going to hold enough investiture to become sentient spren. 

I think the Gloryspren has to do more with Radiants gathering lesser spren when they're being particularly faithful to their Ideals (I might have phrased this wrong), like how Kaladin attracts a ton of Windspren on the ship. Also I'm pretty sure Honorspren are Splinters of Honor, not Gloryspren.

[Cenanin]

3 minutes ago, Matt Snow said:

I think the Gloryspren has to do more with Radiants gathering lesser spren when they're being particularly faithful to their Ideals (I might have phrased this wrong), like how Kaladin attracts a ton of Windspren on the ship. Also I'm pretty sure Honorspren are Splinters of Honor, not Gloryspren.

Syl says on the ship that Honorspren are "pieces" of honor. However how "big" of a splinter does it take to create spren powerful enough to be sentient like Syl. I think Gloryspren are just short of being Honorspren. They flowed into Dalinar before he created the perpendicularity, thousands, tens of thousands. I think it has something to do with him becoming Unity. Part of honor from the stormfather, some more from the gloryspren, and a little bit of cultivation. Mostly honor. He ascended, he's now Unity like Sazed is Harmony. Way below Sazed's power level but he holds enough investiture from both shards to have created a new intent. 

I'm probably wrong but I'm certain the gloryspren had something to do with Dalinar creating the perpendicularity. Syl says "It's Honor's perpendicularity" after tens of thousands of gloryspren flow into Dalinar. It didn't take Honorspren to create the perpendicularity because they are sentient, Dalinar basically picked up a whole lot of honor splinters waiting to be picked up. I think it is a lot like Vin pulling in the mists, but the gloryspren are more investited.

[monkeyman18]

I was on the fence about this until I happened to stumble across this quote from hoid to Dalinar from way of kings “Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time?

"I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish.

Could be foreshadowing or Hoid knowing more than he should again regardless I doubt it’s entirely irrelevant so now three seems a lot more plausible I doubt it’s mere coincidence

Edited December 12, 2017 by monkeyman18

[Belsaros]

Can't include references right now, but I think what Dalinar is doing is more of an option 4, though close to option 3.

He is forging a new "Adonalsium" rather than reforging the existing shards back into the old Adonalsium.

I strongly suspect that the force that opposed and shattered Adonalsium was none other than Tanavast, Rayse, Edgli, Ati, Leras, etc.

I suspect that "Unity" is not a new intent for a new Shard, but rather a fledgling of whatever Adonalsium itself was. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Belsaros

[Arkboy he/him]

I doubt I can add anything new to this discussion. But while I know it is the crazier option, ever since finishing OB I've been suspecting something more like Option 3.

I don't feel that he is becoming a new Adonalsium, but I have a personal theory that he is being influenced by some sort of remnant of it for a greater purpose.

The references by Odium 'we killed you' his talking about being Unity, merging 3 realms etc. He hears the voice saying 'Unite them', which forgive me I don't have the evidence this second, but I'm sure Dalinar says he doesn't recognise it. He has heard Tanavast speak in visions, so if it were part of Honour I think he'd recognise.

The other big thing for me was at the end, saying to Navani that he can see a 'second light' which is far away.

I think that some part of Adonalsium still remains in the spiritual realm and is influencing Dalinar. This is the voice and the light he hears/sees. Possibly this power is still manifesting through shared investiture from the 3 shards, as other ideas have stated, but I think the major influence / drive is coming from this remnant of Adonalsium.

We know very little about the Spiritual Realm, and Adonalsium. But given how powerful it would have been pre-shattering, and the inherent knowledge it would have had, I wonder if some part of it would have managed to remain. That it was so strong that it could never be truly destroyed, like it's power could only be shattered, and its greater being or mind remains in the spiritual realm.

All speculation, I know, but that's where my mind has been going since the end of OB. 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by Arkboy

[Glubbdrubb]

 

1 hour ago, Arkboy said:

I think that some part of Adonalsium still remains in the spiritual realm and is influencing Dalinar. This is the voice and the light he hears/sees. Possibly this power is still manifesting through shared investiture from the 3 shards, as other ideas have stated, but I think the major influence / drive is coming from this remnant of Adonalsium.

Perhaps a good question for Brandon, :

"Does Adonalsium have a Spiritual Shadow?"

[Arkboy he/him]

1 minute ago, Glubbdrubb said:

 

Perhaps a good question for Brandon, :

"Does Adonalsium have a Spiritual Shadow?"

Definitely! 

Although I suspect we'd get a RAFO on that one haha 

[Obvcop]

I always thought 'unite them' was the remnants of something (adonalsium) speaking from the spiritual realm to influence dalinar to unite the rest of the shards to defeat odium as he could be the end of everything

 

Edit: I could also see something catastrophic happening in the time skip like odium getting free, hence his possible influence in scadrial in era 2

Edited January 8, 2018 by Obvcop

[animalia]

On 1/8/2018 at 7:04 AM, Obvcop said:

I always thought 'unite them' was the remnants of something (adonalsium) speaking from the spiritual realm to influence dalinar to unite the rest of the shards to defeat odium as he could be the end of everything

 

Edit: I could also see something catastrophic happening in the time skip like odium getting free, hence his possible influence in scadrial in era 2

I was going to say it could be a side effect of the reforgeing, but that doesn’t make sense does it?

[garlick]

I'm with number 2. Possibly using all 3 shards of Roshar in a harmony type of super shard. My impression during my reads of oathbringer when Odium said "we killed you" my thought was odium and his fused killed honor. The we just meant him and his army, at most him and another shard. The thought of uncle Andy never crossed my mind. As far as the light and unite them. I feel like Honors CS is kinda hiding inside of the Stormfather but is very weak and is able to do very little. Preservation in secret history comes to mind. The light he feels being honors investiture and unite them being akin to preservation tearing the pages for a clue. Very small thing to do but in his weakened state about all he could muster. 

[animalia]

I just had a thought related to the supershard theory. If the supershard is UNITY then said shard COULD by it’s nature have the potential to UNITE with MORE shards in the future. Thus said shard could be the key to the reforging of Adnolsium when Mistborn Era 4 comes out.

[goody153]

I really hoped this isn't some Adonalsium rust it would be predictable and unlike Sanderson at all.

 

Personally i think Dalinar has reached a state of connection with the broken shard of honor to the point of becoming some sort of weird pseudo-vessel. I think that's only possible since the largest splinter of honor is connected to him and the shard is broken.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Has anyone ever thought about that Dalinar maybe just said ”I am Unity” because it sounds cool? And that it doesnt have any Cosmere implications.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

On 5/28/2018 at 5:52 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

Has anyone ever thought about that Dalinar maybe just said ”I am Unity” because it sounds cool? And that it doesnt have any Cosmere implications.

THIS

I don't know why the fandom has got so obsessed over Unity, but it's really storming annoying.

[animalia]

25 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

THIS

I don't know why the fandom has got so obsessed over Unity, but it's really storming annoying.

Because it's capitalized and we try to twing into hints intor how BRandon works by now. It's true that this could all be a MASSIVE red herring, and/or we're all barking up the wrong tree, but in the end of the worst that we'll ocme of it is that we've engaged in some harmless speculation. 

At least that's the worst that we'll come of it for me. Unlike everyone else I'm seldom disappointed when Brandon zigs when I expect him to zag.*  I'm the kind of person who likes to speculate where the ride will go, but ultimately doesn't mind if the ride takes me in a completely different direction than what I was expecting.

*Maybe I'm wrong but I kind of get the feeling that others in the fandom aren't the same way.

[KalaDANG he/him]

I'm feeling more of theory 1. We know from Mistborn secret history that you have to be connected to the shard and its intent to ascend, and the more connected you are, the easier it is. Dalinar is definitely incredibly connected to Honor. He's honorable to a fault, and incredibly trusting of people's words and promises, kind of remeniscent of how Honor eventually started being obsessed with and respecting oaths of all kinds, no matter what they were for. The only problem with the theory that we can't find an explanation for yet is how Dalinar would be able to gather together the splinters of Honor's power to partially ascend. Odium killed Honor, and then he splintered his power, which should have made it impossible to gather together again. Odium had already successfully done this to Devotion and Dominion on Sel, and there hasn't been any gathering together of their power, their power just sits and powers the Dor now. There have been some WoB about the battle between Odium and Honor, and Brandon said that Honor was smart and wiley, and he prepared himself for the fight with Odium since he had already seen what he had done to the shards on Sel. Honor was able to somehow trap Odium on Braize, which is why he's still there, and it could be possible that Honor somehow found a way to make it so that his power could be taken up again if/when he fell. He was at least able to create the visions so that he could help people in the fight against Odium. We know that the visions were sent to people that were potential bondsmiths, (There was a WoB where Brandon said that Gavilar had visions and that he was on the first steps to becoming a bondsmith. The dark sphere might have something to do with it.) It might even be that he was using the visions to fashion and mold someone into the person he would have to be to take up his power again. It could be that theory number two and number one could both be partially accurate. In his efforts to make it so his power could be taken up again, he might have tried to alter the power itself so it could survive, and he might have accidentally or purposefully changed the intent to Unity. Or maybe when the splintered parts of Honor came apart, they formed individual intents or something. That's all speculation, but just some ideas.

 

[Gasper he/him]

The Honor Spren. Outside of the Highstorm and the Stormfather, they are the next biggest concentration of Honor's power that we see in the books. I do not think that it is a coincidence that the Windrunners, who are bonded to honor spren, are reformed around and relating to Dalinar and his actions. We have seen that more and more honor spren are hanging out around Bridge Four and now Bridge Thirteen. It would not surprise me if other bridges, people, and regular units start becoming squires as more Third Oath and above Windrunners form. All of that investure keyed to Honor in one area is bound to do something.