[OB] Jasnah Kholin Appreciation Thread

[Stromblessed he/him]

Even though we didn't get to see as much of Jasnah as we expected (considering the cover ), she still had one of the best character progressions in the books after Dalinar.

Her decision to spare Renarin even though he might have been corrupted shows how much she really cares about people , especially her family , despite her reputation as an emotionless scholar .

And of course this badass scene ,

 

"Mother", Jasnah called, approaching where Fen and Navani stood by the guard post. "You need to rally the troops within the city and clear the enemy inside."

"We are working on it," Navani said. "But - Jasnah ! In the air -"

Jasnah raised an absent hand without looking, forming a wall of black pitch. A Fused crashed through it, and Jasnah Soulcast a flick of fire, sending the thing screaming and flailing, burning with a terrible smoke.

Jashan Soulcast the rest of the pitch on the wall to smoke, then continued forward. "We must take advantage of Radiant Shallan's distraction and cleanse Thaylen City. Otherwise, when the assault comes from outside once more, our attention will be divided."

"From outside?" Fen said. "But we have the wall fixed, and - Storms! Brightness!"

Jasnah stepped aside without looking as the second Fused swooped down - the reactions of spren in Shadesmar allowed her to judge where it was. She turned and swung her hand at the creature. Ivory formed and sliced through the Fused's head as it passed, sending it curling about itself - eyes burning - and tumbling along the wall top.

 

She's the character I look forward to most in the next book, especially now that she is the monarch

(the Vorin church must be choking) xD

Edited November 20, 2017 by Stromblessed

[AerionBFII he/him]

1 hour ago, Stromblessed said:

(the Vorin church must be choking) xD

Mwahahahaha

Makes it all worthwhile. 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

5 hours ago, Stromblessed said:

(the Vorin church must be choking) xD

Oh, you are right. My first thought was because she is a woman, doing what counts as masculine arts. But of course you are right. Heretic in charge. And then Dalinar will stroll up, "I've taken up a piece of the Almighty". Followed by Renarin "I may have bonded a Voidspren. Can I still become an ardent?"

[Stromblessed he/him]

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Oh, you are right. My first thought was because she is a woman, doing what counts as masculine arts. But of course you are right. Heretic in charge. And then Dalinar will stroll up, "I've taken up a piece of the Almighty". Followed by Renarin "I may have bonded a Voidspren. Can I still become an ardent?"

Oh yeah I never considered the effect of Dalinar's Ascension. Pretty sure the church is gonna become another rival. Wew the next book is going to be very interesting. And the best thing is Jasnah doesn't give two cents about what the Church thinks xD

[AbsentKeeper he/him]

Up until part three, I didn't really like Jasnah as much as in previous books. I felt like she was getting even colder and less empathetic than she already was.

I decided to give her a pass later on though for being a complete Storming Chasmfiend in the battle, and for sparing Renarin. 

 

[LH1407]

I loved the part where Navani was getting lectured by her, and how it seemed to be a very common occurence.

[Ari he/him]

I am an unabashed Jasnah fanboy, and as much as I was hoping for significantly more screentime from her this book, I can understand it needed to be sparing to give Shallan specifically time to sort out her own problems, and to avoid spoiling the Big Reveal of the cause of the recreance while still keeping Jasnah's frustratingly cool near-omniscience intact by letting her figure it out ahead of time. I'm optimistic that we'll see her viewpoint a lot more in the future so long as she's figuring out problems with the other characters, rather than simply being in a position of automatically knowing everything. (edit: and I don't think that was exactly what Brandon was doing here, he was rather continuing the expectation of Jasnah being an amazingly smart character, and will probably backsplain why she figured out the secret at a later date, but that's certainly how it can feel when you're frustrated that the plot keeps having us see less of Jasnah)

And I think her literally being Queen is going to put her in that position, and also create interesting character tensions where she's pushed to find herself a husband she probably doesn't want to secure the succession, and where she's going to want to be studying but can't because she needs to be leading, etc...

Overall, I really like where she ended up, and I think Brandon has finally cleared out the character problems which made her simultaneously highly compelling but also too much of a Gandalf to ever let us significantly get too far into her head before.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Ari

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

1 minute ago, Ari said:

And I think her literally being Queen is going to put her in that position, and also create interesting character tensions where she's pushed to find herself a husband she probably doesn't want to secure the succession, and where she's going to want to be studying but can't because she needs to be leading, etc...

This is possible. However, with Elhokar's son been alive she may be able to get away without a husband, since she already has a heir in her nephew. Then again what the Kholins did of deciding who gets the throne on the spot based on who is the better fit for it held a certain appeal. Imagine the problems it would have solved if they had picked Jasnah instead of Elhokar to lead them 6 years ago. Maybe no Everstorm for starters. 

At the moment the Kholins are well organized. Adolin will make a good highprince (he's basically been fulfilling that role for years) but he didn't fit as king, while Jasnah will be excellent as Queen. They may all want to start having babies soon though, as Renarin as highprince or king...would raise up a ton of problems. I'm happy that despite been bonded to a voidspren he is on Honor's side, but from there to been heir...that could be a tough sell to their men.

[Ari he/him]

@WhiteLeeopard: One heir is never enough to secure the succession in a monarchy where the right to rule is established by family lines. Even if they decide that Elhokar's son being alive gives her a primary heir, a monarch is expected to provide multiple heirs to ensure stability, or to provide an alternative should the eldest/first in line prove unsuitable for some reason. (like being a heretic, lol)

But yeah, an autistic king attached to a corrupted Spren (if we're terming odious spren in general Voidspren, then we may want to be careful that Sja-anat's sons and daughters actually precisely count as voidspren under that particular classification, and that they're not their own category of re-purposed sentient investiture rather than sentient investiture that started out of Odium) is a terrible candidate and is even worse than someone who rebels against the idea for personal reasons that don't actively disqualify them, ie. Adolin simply not wanting to be king.

Also, to mis-quote the Dark Knight, Jasnah may not be the Queen Alethkar wants right now, but she's the one it needs and deserves.

[Argent he/him]

Jasnah? More like Yasssnah!

I am particularly fond of how scathing she is towards Amaram. 

[Islington]

Finally, the only thread that matters. I want to know what her "madness" was and whether the sexual assault/molestation theory is right. 

[Stromblessed he/him]

5 minutes ago, Islington said:

Finally, the only thread that matters. I want to know what her "madness" was and whether the sexual assault/molestation theory is right. 

Oh man it well might be. Considering how dark the Dalinar-Evi thing was it very well might be. It also fits with the whole 'you need to be broken , to be a Radiant thing'. It explains why she's so distant from people and uninterested in men. Once burned and all that. 

[Egomere]

I enjoyed the moajority of  her scenes in previous books but now she really came into her own and she was fantastic.

even joking with Kaladin...

really can't wait to see the results of her first year as Alethi Queen come book 4. I imagine she'll have bullied roughshod over most of the remaining countries governments as well...

also : I am worried about the revelations of her past but I guess we might have to wait till her book in the back 5 (i'm pretty sure she's going to get one right?)

Edited November 20, 2017 by Egomere

[StormingTexan he/him]

Jasnah was awesome in the battle. Another note is I felt like the explanation for the Recreance was pretty lack luster. She did say that Hoid told her about it so hoping we find out more truth about it from her later. 

[Erunion he/him]

Jasnah is boss. Just, awesome sauce. Best scenes were the WOK flashback with Dalinar and her scene with Renarin - although her combat scenes were epic. 

 

On royal line - they should set up a more Roman system with designated heirs. So you go to the pool of available heirs and designate who’s next in line instead of good old Primogeniture, or maybe use a more Celtic Tanistry system where the heir is elected. But for now a designated heir or co-ruler makes the most sense - in which case Jasnah would be queen with Gavadin the heir-designate. Should also designate a regent to rule in Gavadin’s stead until he reaches the age of majority. They’ll also need good regency laws to prevent abuse, and a back up line of succession. Likely Shallan and Adolin will be ‘encouraged’ to have kids in order to ensure Kholin succession, as I can’t see anyone being brave enough to exert a lot of pressure on Jasnah to marry/reproduce. 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

2 hours ago, Islington said:

Finally, the only thread that matters. I want to know what her "madness" was and whether the sexual assault/molestation theory is right. 

I dont know. Considering who her family was when she was younger I wouldn't be too surprised if the Blackthorn had burnt alive anyone that did that to his family. Which would have sent a lot more waves and been more obvious I think. Of course it could have always have happened when Dalinar was so lost in the Thrill he wasn't even aware of the world around him. Which was roughly the first 4 years of Adolin's life. That feels like its too early, Jasnah would have been very young.

[Subvisual Haze]

Dalinar is a fantastic spiritual leader for assembling the KR Coalition, but the Alethi are desperately in need of a political leader to get their houses in order.  Dalinar repeatedly backs away from the role of despot, and despite talking about treating the High Princes like children never really does anything to force them into line. I have high hopes that Jasnah will be the Enlightened Despot that the Alethi need.

[+Bliev she/her]

YESSSSSS. Oh, Jasnah--how do I love thee?

Re: her backstory, though, this was from from chapter 49 (23 years ago):

//"It's your daughter," Dalinar guessed. "Her lunacy."

"Jasnah is fine, and recovering. It's not that." Gavilar frowned, his expression dangerous.//

This would have made her what, a Rosharian 11 years of age. This might fit up with a sexual assault theory, and/or possibly the first time she met Ivory? Similar to Shallan's backstory, although we don't know what originally caused her to break enough for Pattern to seek her out (prior to her "situation" with her mother). I really hope we get a Jasnah backstory...and soon. 

[The Invested Beard]

*High fives Jasnah* Good game.

[mariapapadia she/her]

I know, I know. She did some pretty cool stuff in this book, but her highlight for me was when she eviscerated Amaram. I was trembling with excitement, especially because it came after she chastised Shallan so many times on her quick tongue  I can't wait to find more about who tormented her as a child. It's totally unrelated, but I got a major Lisbeth Salander vibe when I read that. 

I also enjoyed her bickering with Kaladin and the person she is when no one is looking. Like when she talks with the two informants and she's amused by them or how she puts this strong face for the world, but is really affected by her fathers death. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by mariapapadia

[Egomere]

@mariapapadia

Yaep Jasnah definately developed into a proper person in my eyes this book (and it was proably one of the better parts of OB). In TWoK and WoR she just seemed too focused and driven; 1 goal and damnation everything else. Now seeing how she has started... not to open up and lose focus but defiantely showing she is a 3d character than and has more aspects to her than previously shown.

banter with Kaladin, awesome battle skills, and yes that Verbal evisceration and lambasting of the Roshar second worst person was brilliant.

And I have an unfounded suspicion that maybe that jaunt she took Shallan in Kharbranth was not only due to wanting to make a teachable moment and get rid of some nasty people but also because of what happened to her as a child - then she was powerless to stop it - now she's not and maybe she gets a cathartic release (she can't punish whoever hurt her for whatever reason but she can others / prevent like situations happening to others - all logical above board.)

[mariapapadia she/her]

15 minutes ago, Egomere said:

@mariapapadia

And I have an unfounded suspicion that maybe that jaunt she took Shallan in Kharbranth was not only due to wanting to make a teachable moment and get rid of some nasty people but also because of what happened to her as a child - then she was powerless to stop it - now she's not and maybe she gets a cathartic release (she can't punish whoever hurt her for whatever reason but she can others / prevent like situations happening to others - all logical above board.)

I have a feeling that Gavilar was somehow involved in what happened to her as a child. I am not sure if she said that someone from her famility did that to her, but what Navani said to Dalinar, that he wasn't the man he thought he was and Gavilar's annoyance/ dismissiveness when Dalinar asks him about Jasnah, made me suspect that he had something to do with it.

[Egomere]

6 minutes ago, mariapapadia said:

I have a feeling that Gavilar was somehow involved in what happened to her as a child. I am not sure if she said that someone from her famility did that to her, but what Navani said to Dalinar, that he wasn't the man he thought he was and Gavilar's annoyance/ dismissiveness when Dalinar asks him about Jasnah, made me suspect that he had something to do with it.

I took that the mention of her family was because of what happened after the event and how they 'treated' her (locked her up) and she felt like she was being ignored and maltreated by her family in order to 'fix' her 'lunacy'. - This could have come from having been molested - broken, bonded with Ivory and then how Gavilar and her family didn;t believe her story about what had happened and so thought she was fitting / mentally unstable and dealt with it badly - leaving her to feel neglected.

Although I think there's alot about Gavilar we have yet to find out about - and I suspect it's that it turns out he's not been the person Dalinar thinks he was... although so far in BS works when has that not been applicable to almost any character.

[deddinty]

Jasnah is definitely the warrior queen Roshar needs. 

As for her trauma/past personally I could easily see Jasnah as a combination of Schizophrenia and/or OCD, rather than having to have experienced some sort of sexual trauma.   

We know that the ardents think locking people into dark rooms is "calming" for madness which would fit with her memories of being locked up. This could also explain her complete belief in there being no god, if she like some Schizophrenics hears the voice of "god" as a child, her complete lack of belief in there being a god is a self preservation instinct. 

Of course it's possible she isn't actually Schizophrenic but instead is seeing shadesmar/bonding a spren early on. I could even see a situation where whatever is trapped in the palace could have spoken to her pretending to be god.

The OCD I could see coming about as a result of this trauma, or even being something she would have regardless. Her appearance being perfect, her hatred of invasion into her personal space both her rooms and physically, her need for order and logic could all be manifestations of this. An avoidance of uncontrollable situations such as a marriage where she would be expected to subvert her control to someone else could be a part of this. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by deddinty
Autocorrect

[Kasimir he/him]

Four words:

Chain. Chull-slap. Of. Doom.  

That turned me into a Jasnah fanboy right there.