[OB Part 5 Spoilers] Odium's Intrinsic Blindness

[teknopathetic he/him]

Odium's Blindspot - His Own Futuresight

We know from a WOB that each shard has a blindness, like metal for certain shards in a certain book. Some believe this to be the Shard's focus, but we dint have 100% proof that all shards act this way. 

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When Mr.T meets with Odium, Odium is unable to see Renarin in the weavings of The Diagram. Mr.T notices this and is confused. All the words of the diagram are known to Odium, minus this one aspect.
 

Renarin Broke Odium's Plan

Renarin saw his own death through Odium's power. In Odium's sight, Jasnah Kills Renarin, and likely Odium tells Dalinar about the death of his son at Jasnah's hands. Then Dalinar goes super crazy and becomes the child of Odium once more (or something like that). But, Odium can't see Renarin's fate cleary. Renarin is a blindspot, and Renarin manages to do something different than what Odium saw. Renarin helps save the day, and the city is saved in part due to his actions.  

Odium was genuinely horrified that Dalinar did not become corrupted. Sure, Cultivation had her vines in Dalinar, but there is more to it than that. Cultivation didn't seem very hopeful that she would save Dalinar, and it seems likely that Odium would be able to sense Cultivation's influence. Odium was sure that Dalinar was going to break. Was Renarin the missing piece? 
 

Perhaps the prohibition on foresight has two derivations: 

1) People know that seeing the future is usually of Odium, and doing so means you are being polluted by him in some way. Also, knowing the future can lead one to fatalism, much as Renarin gave up and just waited for his cousin to strike him down. There is likely more here. 

2) A Vorin prohibition against ever using foresight in the first place would help Odium greatly. If humans were morally against using Odium's foresight, then Odium wouldn't need to worry about the reverb effect. Foresight is not a be-all end-all evil in the Cosmere, as Kaladin rightly notes after meeting with the Sel Augur. 

Odium was shocked by the Diagram and how it was being used. Mr.T had been utilizing death-rattles in order to prune his diagram, and this seems to work very well. Odium didn't have any "gotchas" or "good minion" to say to Mr.T. Odium seemed genuinely shocked at what Mr.T had produced, despite Mr.T harvesting death-rattles by the hundreds. 

Why Corrupt the Truthwatchers?

The Stormlight Library shows us that the Truthwatchers were corrupted either during or before the time of the last desolation (4000 years ago). We see that the Truthwatchers refused to talk about their powers, became insular, and one gem says "I foresaw this". Obviously a corrupted order would be great for Odium, but it seems like things went to crem for Odium after this corruption happened. The Radiants won-ish, some unmade were captured, and life on Roshar went on. 

I can't decide if Odium wanted the Truthwachers corrupted like this for some reason, or if perhaps the Truthwatchers at one point decided the corruption might give them an edge. Odium never seems to use Renarin in his plans (Odium didn't know Shallan was a Lightweaver, Odium didn't use Renarin to destroy the Oathgate or open an Oathgate, Renarin knowing the date of the Everstorm only helped Dalinar, etc etc). What is the point of half-corrupting Truthwatchers? It seems like maybe it was self-inflicted? Or was the corruption intentionally botched by the traitor Unmade?

Something is so off about Renarin and his Odiumsight. Renarin has been so useful, and Odium can't see Renarin's implication's clearly. Now Mr.T has joined Odium, but knows Renarin is some sort of weakness to be leveraged against the god of Passion. Renarin is, perhaps, walking Atium. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Awesomness]

 

1 hour ago, teknopathetic said:

The Stormlight Library shows us that the Truthwatchers were corrupted either during or before the time of the last desolation (4000 years ago).

Wich Messege says that?

 

[teknopathetic he/him]

14 minutes ago, Awesomness said:

 

Wich Messege says that?

 

There are 2 emeralds (Truthwatchers) that show us something is very wrong:

"I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers." 8-21 - Second Emerald

"Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this." - drawer 30-20 - a particularly small emerald

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Edited November 26, 2017 by teknopathetic

[DiamondMind he/him]

That's most likely around the time of abandoning Urithiru, which is probably within a few centuries of the Recreance.

[+Bliev she/her]

My theory on this is that though foresight is of Odium, he does not “control” it, unless his focus is on it. Shards are not omnipresent and omniscient in the same way as a “traditional” god, and if Sja-anat is a splinter with her own intent, and is the one corrupting the truth watcher spren, and she really wants to not be an enemy as she tells Shallan (which remains to be seen), then maybe he doesn’t know Renarin has any future sight. In fact, it might explain the truth watcher renowned secrecy: they knew there were real traitors among them even then, and they didn’t want Odium’s focus on them.

[CosmereAvair]

But Renarin's spren is not of Odium, Glys was corrupted by one of the Unmade, the same one that corrupted the Oathgate in Kholinar. Yes the Unmade might have come from Odium, that doesn't mean they still follow/invested by him.

[Awesomness]

 

 

7 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

There are 2 emeralds (Truthwatchers) that show us something is very wrong:

"I worry about my fellow Truthwatchers." 8-21 - Second Emerald

"Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this." - drawer 30-20 - a particularly small emerald

Good catch. Could itbe related with this?

Quote

In short, if any presume Kazilah to be innocent, you must look at the facts and deny them in their entirety; to say that the Radiants were destitute of integrity for this execution of one their own, one who had obviously fraternized with the unwholesome elements, indicates the most slothful of reasoning; for the enemy's baleful influence demanded vigilance on all occasions, of war and of peace. ”

—Chapter 32, page 17^[18]

 

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Page 89: Of the Unmade, Sja-anat was most feared by the Radiants. They spoke extensively of her ability to corrupt spren, though only ‘lesser’ spren -- whatever that means.

 

[Calderis he/him]

First, the section of the Diagram about Renarin is written down, just like the rest of it. There is no reason that one part of the Diagram should be hidden when the rest is not. This is why I think Cultivation is involved and directly blocking it. 

Second, as with Atium, someone having knowledge of the future interferes with others being able to manipulate them,as any change is reflected in what they see, and able to be reacted to. 

At the moment, there isn't anything to indicate what blocked a section of the Diagram from Odium, or that Renarin is a traitor. 

[icy1155]

32 minutes ago, Calderis said:

At the moment, there isn't anything to indicate what blocked a section of the Diagram from Odium, or that Renarin is a traitor. 

I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but what if Odium couldn't see any outcome other than Jasnah killing Renarin is because she spared him out of her unconditional love, which is pretty much the opposite of hatred. Maybe love is his blind spot when foreseeing the future.

[teknopathetic he/him]

11 minutes ago, icy1155 said:

I know it sounds kind of cheesy, but what if Odium couldn't see any outcome other than Jasnah killing Renarin is because she spared him out of her unconditional love, which is pretty much the opposite of hatred. Maybe love is his blind spot when foreseeing the future.

Makes sense, but that would be very 'after school special"
Reanrin is saved by the power of his cousin's love.
Dalinar is saved by his wife's unidirectional love. 
Roshar is saved by our, the reader's, love.

And then how in Damnation did Odium defeat Devotion (god of love)? Maybe Dominion durned on him/her/it? 

Edited November 26, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Angsos]

That would be too Harry Potterish and unJasnah and any Odium is the shard of passionate emotions.

[splinters]

I tend to think there is a simpler explanation. Odium isn’t omniscient and can’t see everything going on. He can probably see directly through his pawns and wherever his attention is focused, but he doesn’t see things he isn’t paying attention to. He can’t even see exactly what his unmade are doing all the time. Otherwise he would know of Sja-Anat’s intent to betray him (unless that isn’t real). I think he is able to see even less because of something Honor did when he bound Odium to the Roshar system. In addition, I think Cultivation has found how to make most of her moves invisible to him (how else would he not have noticed Lift in the vision he visited Dalinar in?).

The idea that the truthwatchers have been corrupted for a long time is intruiging, but then what do you make of the truthwatcher that Lift meet in Edgedancer ( the orphanage leader—sorry I forgot her name). Jasnah even got confirmation that that woman’s spren wasn't corrupted and that it looked normal.