aPewter Vs. Stormlight

[Tarion]

I tend to think that most of Szeth's and Kaladin's greater skill in battle comes from skill rather than stormlight. As someone said, “stormlight doesn't create skill. It perfects what is already there." I think all surges barred, a stormlight user would lose against a Thug with an equal level of skill/training. Maybe I'm biased, though, as Mistborn was my first Cosmere series.

Words of Radiance Spoiler

 

Kaladin says at the beginning that sparring with 3 men, 1 of them missing an arm, would have been a challenge.  With Stormlight, it's effortless.  And that doesn't come close to the dozens of Parshendi he fought at the end of Way of Kings.  It's a huge jump in his potential that doesn't seem to be matched by any of the Thugs we see.

 

Scadrial tends to favor small squad-based combat, where the biggest advantage of Thugs is that they let you increase your manpower without needing more people.  On Roshar, Surgebinders supplement armies.  They just operate on a different scale.  

[Pechvarry]

While Szeth's Stormlight may very well be more in-line with Pewter (I'm led to believe this is the case, with it providing less speed, strength, and durability but as much grace, more combat awareness, and a much stronger healing factor), it's obvious from Words of Radiance that real Knights Radiant blow Pewter clean out of the water.

[Claincy he/him]

Words of Radiance Spoiler

 

Kaladin says at the beginning that sparring with 3 men, 1 of them missing an arm, would have been a challenge.  With Stormlight, it's effortless.  And that doesn't come close to the dozens of Parshendi he fought at the end of Way of Kings.  It's a huge jump in his potential that doesn't seem to be matched by any of the Thugs we see.

 

Scadrial tends to favor small squad-based combat, where the biggest advantage of Thugs is that they let you increase your manpower without needing more people.  On Roshar, Surgebinders supplement armies.  They just operate on a different scale.  

I won't try to debate that a Knight Radiant gets more from stormlight than a thug gets from pewter. Though I would say that a capable thug is notably stronger than you seem to think. The only example I can recall in mistborn of a thug fighting ordinary guys is in the scene where they try to rescue the Renoux servants from the prison carts before they could be executed. In that scene Ham's fighting is described as:

 

There was a reason pewterarms were also called Thugs: there was no subtlety to their fighting, no clever Ironpulls and Steelpushes. Ham simply attacked with raw strength and speed, throwing enemy soldiers out of his way, laying waste to their ranks.

The Final Empire Chapter 34

 

Though just how powerful pewter actually is seems to be a bit inconsistent in the books, especially Kelsier's first fight with the hazekillers in Keep Venture.

Edited March 22, 2014 by lord Claincy Ffnord

[khh he/him]

While Szeth's Stormlight may very well be more in-line with Pewter (I'm led to believe this is the case, with it providing less speed, strength, and durability but as much grace, more combat awareness, and a much stronger healing factor), it's obvious from Words of Radiance that real Knights Radiant blow Pewter clean out of the water.

I disagree that Szeth's Stormlight is weaker than the Knight Radients. 

WoR Spoiler

There are two things that allow Kaladin to win against him. One is that Szeth drains Stormlight faster than Kaladin, but the deciding factor is that Kaladin's Shardblade is bonded to him and able to anticipate his needs. This allows him to fight in a style that is totally different from what anyone has seen before, thus negating some of Szeth skills and training.

We don't see anything in the books indicating that KR are actually better or stronger using the Stormlight they possess.

[Baine he/him]

I do think everyone here is underestimating the power of Allomantic pewter. Most of the time, all the Thugs we see are fighting the Mistborn characters, so we don't have as much knowledge as to their power compared to regular people.

 

(also, sorry for not replying more; my keyboard was broken)

[Edgedancer he/him]

I do think everyone here is underestimating the power of Allomantic pewter. Most of the time, all the Thugs we see are fighting the Mistborn characters, so we don't have as much knowledge as to their power compared to regular people.

 

(also, sorry for not replying more; my keyboard was broken)

I don´t think that most of us are underestimationg it. Yes, pewter is awesome but not only is Stormlight kinda broken it also has seemingly no upper limit on how strong it can upgrade you, if you have enough of it on hand.

From what we have seen it may give less raw strenght, though.

[Tarion]

Thugs do really well, but only against people who aren't prepared.  Hazekillers show that a group of regular guys with sticks and wooden shields are able to counter Thugs (Along with the rest of the Mistings).  

 

Yes, they have training for it, but that just goes to show that the biggest advantage Thugs have over regular people is that they're a surprise - The vast majority of people outside of the nobility aren't allowed to know about Mistings, and so aren't ready to fight them.  Plus, outside of Bronze, you don't really know a guy's a Thug until he's hitting you or your friends (at which point, for most people, it's simply too late).