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(OB) Azure and Zahel

Toaster Retribution

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Bliev

+Bliev she/her

Posted
Posted

I prefer Vivenna (I actually wanted to name a daughter that, but, Lyra from His Dark Materials won out the first time, and this one’s a boy lol). 

On your main point, I think they’ll be crucial. A confrontation between the two will surely occur, and NB is surely centrally important to the outcome of this war and also to what happens with Odium. They both know how to make weapons like NB. Cultivation seems to know about NB. But what doesn’t Odium know? he instructed his Fused to seize NB’s sheath in Thaylan City, so he knows some, but does he know where it came from? Who made it? Both Zahel and Azure could be in some danger here, regardless of their own goals in this war. 

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Ashaman_Wade

Ashaman_Wade he/him

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Sol Invictus said:

Vasher—-a Returned, with a Divine Breath and an easy supply of ‘lesser’ Breaths, suddenly becoming a Knight Radiant? Ouch.

 

6 minutes ago, lDanielHolm said:

Are we even sure that's possible? Breaths aren't just Investiture, I don't think.

That would be.. bands of mourning type "hack" that would make him OP until Odium responds.

Okay so I'm brand new here but there is a woB that says interchanging investiture in the magic systems is possible just extremely difficult. When asked if 1 breathe a week could be replaced with stormlight. 

Edited by Ashaman_Wade
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lDanielHolm

lDanielHolm he/him

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18 minutes ago, Ashaman_Wade said:

 

That would be.. bands of mourning type "hack" that would make him OP until Odium responds.

Okay so I'm brand new here but there is a woB that says interchanging investiture in the magic systems is possible just extremely difficult. When asked if 1 breathe a week could be replaced with stormlight. 

Yes, because the Breaths needed for a Returned to survive is needed for their Investiture, not their function as, well, Breath -- which must include at least part of the Cognitive aspect of the person they originally came from. That part is most likely what gives Awakened objects their sentience. You wouldn't get that with Stormlight. So Vasher can live off of Stormlight instead of Breaths, but that doesn't mean he can Awaken with it.

Though come to think of it, he may be able to Awaken with just one Breath and use Stormlight to fuel the Awakening to make more complex Commands than a single Breath normally allows. Hmn.

Edited by lDanielHolm
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Patrick Star

Patrick Star

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Posted
2 hours ago, lDanielHolm said:

Are we even sure that's possible? Breaths aren't just Investiture, I don't think.

No, we're not.  I'm just guessing, really, since I feel like Brandon plopping Vasher and Vivenna into the series just to get a couple of swords (Nightblood and Whiteblood) onto Roshar would be a waste.

Keep in mind that Vasher is a returned, so he's a splinter of Endowment, not a sliver.  Plus the dude's ancient, and was one of the main scholars on how breaths functioned.  With enough hacking, I would not be surprised at all if he could eventually get it to work.

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Leyrann

Leyrann

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On 14-1-2018 at 4:50 AM, Calderis said:

Brandon has not said it's impossible, just that Vasher hasn't figured out how.

Hacking any magic to another is theoretically possible, some are just more difficult than others. 

Isn't Breaths and Stormlight relatively easy because it's pretty similar?

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Calderis

Calderis he/him

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3 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Isn't Breaths and Stormlight relatively easy because it's pretty similar?

We've been told that Breath would fuel surgebinding easily, but not the other way. 

I think that the nature of stormlight, the way that it leaks, is probably the biggest issue. Breath sticks to things. Once it's there I wants to stay there. So it will carry out a command seemingly indefinitely. Stormlight on the other hand constantly drains away. So even if some does figure out how to awaken with it, I think it would be time limited. The awakened object would glow like something lashed, and stop functioning once the stormlight had drained away. 

Complete supposition on my part, but there you go. And here's the WoB on Breath and surgebinding. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/171/#e8294

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Can a Surgebinder use Breath like they can Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

This is possible and not really that hard to make work.

And another that mentions Windrunners specifically, and more on the general principle. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/5/#e3233

Quote

Questioner

You've mentioned in the last couple of afterwords that you get interesting results when you mix types of investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Twinborn and Surgebinders on Roshar. Can you mix a form of magic with a source of investiture? Can say Vasher use Stormlight in place of Breaths or would that require tampering via Hemalurgy or something like that?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of them require tampering. Some of them are a little bit easier than others. It depends on really what you mean. For instance, white sand can be charged in the presence of any Investiture right? It's just-- But that's not really using the magic, it's just charging it with other Investiture. But, you know, it would be very easy, for instance, if you can get yourself Invested-- Like, for instance, it'd be very easy to use Breaths to fuel Windrunning right? Because the oath and the bond and things like that are going to make it pretty easy. However fueling Allomancy with something else is going to be a lot harder. So it really depends on the magic. It's the sort of thing that there will be lots of science in the books dedicated to making happen in the future and you will find some of the processes these work easier than other ones.

 

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Leyrann

Leyrann

Posted
Posted

@Calderis Hasn't Brandon said that Breath also leaks though, but that, in objects, it leaks at "one Breath per week" just like in Returned? Maybe it's just a slower leaking variety...

7 minutes ago, Kered said:

The cosmere equivalent of splitting the atom.  

That's... Actually such a good comparision. If you'd be able to turn Stormlight into Breath... Oh man the possibilities are endless.

Now I'm hoping for some kind of intergalactic war where Nalthis and Roshar team up like this... (if it is possible to stop it from leaking, obviously)

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StormingTexan

StormingTexan he/him

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Hasn't Brandon said that Breath also leaks though, but that, in objects, it leaks at "one Breath per week" just like in Returned? Maybe it's just a slower leaking variety...

The only thing I remember seeing is him saying Nightblood is "leaky" but I do not believe it leaks from normal objects as we see Vasher and Vivenna store breath in objects a few times. 

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Leyrann

Leyrann

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30 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Not that I'm aware of 

It was actually a suggestion Brandon got which he decided to use, so I guess I was technically correct:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291-twg-posts/#e8446

Quote

DavidB

Also, it seems to me like it would be more internally consistent if awakened objects consumed breath, to make all of these breath-consuming powers in the last few chapters fit in better. So for example, if Vasher awakened a shirt and left it awakened and doing stuff for a day, then he might be down one-seventh of a breath when he took it back at the end of the day. (Of course, that mechanic requires it to be possible to transfer or awaken with portions of a breath, and if you could do that, then using the "putting the breaths you don't want to transfer into a cloth until after the transfer" thing, you could feed the returned by taking a tiny fraction of all the Halladren's breaths, instead of taking some people's entire breaths and turning them into drabs.)

Brandon Sanderson

Hum. I like that suggestion, actually. I think I'll use it. Though, what I'll do is say that if you leave the breath in for too long, one of them vanishes. If you can get them back quickly enough, however, there is no loss. That gives a bit of a better explanation of why there aren't a lot of awakened objects doing things all over the place. True, using the breath to make them would be initially expensive--but if you got a magic object that never winds down, then that might be worth the expense.

 

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Rainier

Rainier

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Posted

I don't know why this thread isn't tagged Warbreaker spoilers, so I'll tag this, but anytime someone mentions Vasher or Vivenna you really should put the spoiler tags on there. At least OP kept the Stormlight names for them in the title, but even then their Warbreaker names are technically spoilers, too. 
Nobody's said anything about soulcasting so here goes:

Spoiler

 

Vasher will Awaken the 'statues' that are really soulcast bodies.

This isn't even the first time he's been able to do something similar, after all he, as Warbreaker the Peaceful, made a army of statues built with bones. He's a real-life Necromancer on Roshar, and those bodies used to be alive and still remember being alive. It's almost certain that he's able to use Stormlight in place of Breaths to keep him alive every week, else he wouldn't be alive still, but I also think he knows how to use Stormlight for Awakening, or Vivenna does. 

Regardless, I'm expecting to see Kalad's Phantoms Mark 2 marching across Roshar before the series ends. We might even get a glimpse of Gavilar.

 

 

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Calderis

Calderis he/him

Posted
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1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

It was actually a suggestion Brandon got which he decided to use, so I guess I was technically correct:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/291-twg-posts/#e8446

 

Ah, I had seen that. I just forget about the time frame listed in the suggestion. I would like some clarification as to if Brandon kept that time frame, because I was aware of breath degradation over time, but I thought of it more as being "used up" rather than leaking away. 

If it is similar to a returned I guess that would make sense, I'd just like a clearer WoB on the time frame. I guess for now a week is as good a number as any though. 

Good find. 

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RShara

RShara she/her

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Posted (edited)

I don't know if that will work without some retconning.  Because there was a big deal about the one-Breath Lifeless, and they are arguably more complex than Awakening objects.  If objects need a Breath a week in order to keep going, then Lifeless should too.  They're a lot closer to the Returned than Awakened objects are.

Used up, with no particular time frame, would make more sense with little retconning.  There's already some establishment for it, with the annotation on why Jewels was stitching up Clod.

Edited by RShara
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