Vizier he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I'm curious about the status of Cultivation so far in Stormlight. On the one hand, Hoid/Wit heavily implies that she is still alive:- when Adolin tells him to 'find someone his own age', he replies with 'there's only one of those around these parts, and she's never been fond of me'. Given what we know of Hoid/Wit, he can only be referring to the Shard of Cultivation - but the epigraphs suggest Odium is trapped in or around Roshar, and I find it hard to believe Rayse would spend so much time around another Shard without killing them, and he had to been to Roshar personally to kill Honor. The epigraphs from Way of Kings also say that 'three of sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns', heavily suggesting Cultivation's death. But the WoR epigraphs say that 'it has been millennia since the death of one of the sixteen' and - arg. I just don't know. It's possible that Wit was just being himself, and not being overly serious, I guess. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 It's more likely she is alive and that Rayse is in fact stuck in some kind of limbo because of the game Honor bond him in. In the letter to Hoid the sender says it might be better to leave Roshar alone because Rayse is stuck there and Honor mentions to Dalinar how Rayse is bound by certain rules that Dalinar must try use if he wants to win. Maybe Honor managed to force Rayse in this situation which left him weakened enough to be killed similiar to what Leras did to trap Ruin but the nature of his shard is different so he may have been able to bound him in some "Rules of Honor" that Rayse has to follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I imagine she's in a similar state to Honor, perhaps with the Nightmother being an analogue to the Stormfather as a chief remnant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vizier he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Huh. Didn't think of that with the Nightwatcher. One of the main points of contention for me is that it has been said twice that Odium reigns. If someone's literally trapped in an Honor Code, they're not really reigning, are they? And if Odium truly reigns, Cultivation is dead. Simple as that. But if Odium was free on Roshar, he would have found Hoid pretty quickly,, wouldn't he? *sighs* More questions, it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter he/him Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 We have WoB that Cultivation is alive: StormAtlasIs Cultivation's holder still alive?Brandon SandersonYes. (source) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorWh0m he/him Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Given the way he replies to specific questions, it makes me wonder if Cultivation is still alive. That quote only says the holder is still alive, so perhaps she abandoned the Shard somehow, maybe to create the 'equilibrium' that the second Letter mentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Given the way he replies to specific questions, it makes me wonder if Cultivation is still alive. That quote only says the holder is still alive, so perhaps she abandoned the Shard somehow, maybe to create the 'equilibrium' that the second Letter mentions. That seems overly complicated... It seems much more likely that She's still around. If nothing else Hoid think's she's alive, as evidenced by the comments about Women his age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armless writer he/him Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Also destroying Cultivation is probably why Odium is attacking Roshar what other goal would he have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox he/him Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) I think the reason Odium is in the Rosharan system is because he is stuck there, as implied in the return letter epigraphs from WoR. From what i understand its WoB that Cultivation is alive, at least its pretty likely given he said the person who holds it still is. "Is Cultivation's holder still alive?", 'holder' is present tense people. I doubt she has since died after he said that. I am also pretty sure that the 'mother' that Whyndle refers too is Cultivation/Cultivation's holder. Edited March 10, 2014 by Paradox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Holder is not specifically present tense... Perhaps what is keeping Odium on Reshar is Cultivation's having voluntarily and reversibly given up and split apart her Shard, and would be able to undo this if Rayse left without eliminating the Sliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox he/him Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 You can't be a holder of something you aren't actually holding... I can't say I am the holder of this book when, in fact, the book is actually not in my possesion. I could say I was the custodian of the book. From my understanding cosmere wise the 'holder' part of a Shard holder is taken very literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew C Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I think she's been corrupted somewhat by Odium; enough to turn her into the Nightwatcher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 You can't be a holder of something you aren't actually holding... I can't say I am the holder of this book when, in fact, the book is actually not in my possesion. I could say I was the custodian of the book. From my understanding cosmere wise the 'holder' part of a Shard holder is taken very literally. "Cultivation's holder" could easily be past tense since we'd be aiming nobody else could hold it currently instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm slightly confused with the timeline then. Does that mean that Ati wasn't one of the original 16 or did the events of mistborn happen before honor died? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caidhe he/him Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 To my knowledge we don't know when Honor/Tanavast died. I expect that he died before the Prelude to the series, which would definitely be before Mistborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) To my knowledge we don't know when Honor/Tanavast died. I expect that he died before the Prelude to the series, which would definitely be before Mistborn. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 281018368 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 395634992 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I think he died between the prelude and the recreance actually, if he died before the Prelude it wasn't by much as he was alive for the creation of the Radiants... Actually come to think of it, all of Dalinar's visions supposedly happened while Tanavasy was alive, suggesting that Honor lived past the recreance. Edited March 10, 2014 by Aminar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 281018368 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 395634992 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I think he died between the prelude and the recreance actually, if he died before the Prelude it wasn't by much as he was alive for the creation of the Radiants... He can only have died after the last of Dalinar's visions, since by his own account he wasn't much good at forecasting the future. That places his death at the Recreance at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 He can only have died after the last of Dalinar's visions, since by his own account he wasn't much good at forecasting the future. That places his death at the Recreance at the earliest. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 281018368 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 435452208 bytes) in Unknown on line 0 I agree. We apparently thought it at about the same time(Immediatley after I hit the post button.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I'm sure a lot of people are going to disagree and I haven't finished the book yet... but I'm pretty sure that the NIghtwatcher is Cultivation. The way Lift's spren talks about the Nightwatcher like it is his mother or something, and you know.. Cultivation, a spren who is all about plants and growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalion Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have always pictured a classic love triangle back on Yolen ending with Rayse and the others standing next to the ruins of Adonalasium and watching the woman he's always dreamed of choosing to spend eternity with that storming Tanavast. To borrow a Prachettism, Narrative Causality demanded that he pledge his unending hatred, choose the evil shard and a planet next to her's, while fervently swearing "If I can't have.her, no one will!". Honorable Tanavast ensures her protection at his dealth and Rayse, having a twisted love for her was never inclined to kill het anyway. Once's he's made good on ending Tanavast he keeps her captive and a broodimg, heartbroken Cultivation can't help but leven her boons with a curse, out of the bitterness growing in her heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity he/him Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Cultivation's holder is alive, as WoB said, but this could be a different person than Cultivation's ORIGINAL holder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loke13 Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 I have always pictured a classic love triangle back on Yolen ending with Rayse and the others standing next to the ruins of Adonalasium and watching the woman he's always dreamed of choosing to spend eternity with that storming Tanavast. To borrow a Prachettism, Narrative Causality demanded that he pledge his unending hatred, choose the evil shard and a planet next to her's, while fervently swearing "If I can't have.her, no one will!". Honorable Tanavast ensures her protection at his dealth and Rayse, having a twisted love for her was never inclined to kill het anyway. Once's he's made good on ending Tanavast he keeps her captive and a broodimg, heartbroken Cultivation can't help but leven her boons with a curse, out of the bitterness growing in her heart. But then why go and kill two other shard holders? Was that just Odium's intent pushing him to do those things or does he have some sort of ulterior motive for all this death and destruction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxilian he/him Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) It's very unlikely that the Cultivation that is alive is different from the original holder. “That’s right,” Adolin said with a nod. “Stick to women your own age. ”Wit grinned. “Well, that might be a little harder. I think there’s only one of those around these parts, and she and I never did get along.” Excerpt From: Brandon Sanderson. “Stormlight 2: Words of Radiance.” I think it's pretty clear, seeing as how Hoid knows all of the original shard holders, that Cultivation is still alive and around. Edited March 11, 2014 by taxilian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Do we have any definitive info if Cultivation is on Roshar or is she on one of the other planets in the Solar System? My view is that Rayse doesn't want to attack her directly because he wants the power of her shard. Cultivation and Hatred aren't as incompatible as Honor and Hatred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity he/him Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Definitely. I don't think Cultivation is currently held by anybody but its original holder (well, original post-Shattering assuming there were holders pre-Shattering). I only offered that for counter-argument's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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