TheManKnownAsHoid Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Does Harmony have a Perpendicularity? And what happened to Honor and Ruin's perpendicularities? Were they destroyed when Sazed Ascended? Were they merged? Was a new one created? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 The Forgetful Archivist he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 I recall hearing a theory that the mysterious visitor colum in the House Record Broadsheet was referring to Harmony's shard pool. Deep in the Southern Roughs Nicelle Sauvage finds "a mountain pool of the most perfect blue" with a mysterious visitor crouched over it. Seems like a possible candidate. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 goody153 Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Yeah it's uncertain Quote Questioner (paraphrased) Are there one or two Shardpools [Perpendicularities] on Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) RAFO. Footnote: Presumably this question refers to after Harmony's Ascension, as there were two prior to that.source Quote Questioner The metals that were formed from Shards, like atium and lerasium. Are they somewhat naturally occurring, like in pools of power, or are they specifically [?]? Brandon Sanderson They are somewhat naturally occurring. Questioner Really? Even on other Shardworlds? Brandon Sanderson Oh. They could exist somewhere else. There are some special circumstances on Scadrial, but yes. The idea is that the pools are one state of this mythological matter. Questioner So if you have the physical state and the liquid state, is there a less liquid state? Because some of that's being used. Brandon Sanderson Um... Oh. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, it's such a drop in the bucket compared to the actual Shards. So that it is a statistically insignificant amount, but it is an amount. Questioner So Harmony's pool, wherever it is is statistically larger than... Brandon Sanderson Yes. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Wandering Investor Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) There is traffic going on to and off of Scadrial to the rest of the cosmere, so there has to be a perpendicularity, which all perpendicularitys so far have been observed to create a pool, so yes, there should* be a shardpool somewhere. The perpendicularity's are a result of too much power being crammed into a system and pooling into one place. As Harmony is two shards, there should either be one large pool or two normal ones. A shard having more than one pool has been theorized by the 17thshard(noncosmere), but there's no proof for it. There is a theory on he Visitor from another World Broadcast sheet being entirely accurate. The person spotted is wearing the mask of a Southern Scadrialian(?). We know Iyatil was born in Silverlight but is of Southern Scadrial descent, so at least some Southern Scadrial citizens can access the perpendicularity. The only problem with this theory is the pool itself, the writer describes it as being fed by melting snow (he could just be guessing, so this is a soft problem), but more importantly, blue would totally break Harmony's theme of white, black, and grey. Its not impossible, as Aona's pool was also blue, but Ruin and Preservation's pools followed their color themes. Cultivation's is emerald, which follows her plant theme somewhat. Honor's Perpendicularity still exists and is in the Highstorm, which is the How and Why of the Storm being able to provide Investiture. This is explored quite a bit in OB. This is theorized, but has not been confirmed in the books. The Highstorm provided stormlight before Honor ever came to the planet. Honor has changed the Stormfather and the Highstorm by extension, but placing his perpendicularity there is not confirmed. Edited July 19, 2018 by Wandering Investor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 CrazyRioter she/her Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Neither of the old perpendicularities exists anymore. There must be a new one somewhere, as Hoid has been on and off Scadrial, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kaj he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 I was wondering the same thing earlier today. I can't find anything on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 While it's not explicit, this one implies that Harmony will have one larger pool. Quote Questioner The metals that were formed from Shards, like atium and lerasium. Are they somewhat naturally occurring, like in pools of power, or are they specifically [?]? Brandon Sanderson They are somewhat naturally occurring. Questioner Really? Even on other Shardworlds? Brandon Sanderson Oh. They could exist somewhere else. There are some special circumstances on Scadrial, but yes. The idea is that the pools are one state of this mythological matter. Questioner So if you have the physical state and the liquid state, is there a less liquid state? Because some of that's being used. Brandon Sanderson Um... Oh. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, it's such a drop in the bucket compared to the actual Shards. So that it is a statistically insignificant amount, but it is an amount. Questioner So Harmony's pool, wherever it is is statistically larger than... Brandon Sanderson Yes. source And this one says that both the Well and the Pits are no more. Quote Dalenthas Does the Well of Ascension still exist in the new world? Or is it no longer necessary? I assumed that Preservation collected there like Ruin collects in the Pits of Hathsin, so if Atium keeps forming then the well should keep filling... Brandon Sanderson The Well (and the small wells in the Pits) is no more. For now at least. source That does have a qualifier... But considering the purpose of the Well as a trap for Ruin, and the Pits as a way to syphon power off of Ruin to create the Atium, it seems unlikely to me that there's more than one large pool for Harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Honor's Perpendicularity still exists and is in the Highstorm, which is the How and Why of the Storm being able to provide Investiture. This is explored quite a bit in OB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Forgetful Archivist he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) Quote Honor's Perpendicularity still exists and is in the Highstorm, which is the How and Why of the Storm being able to provide Investiture. This is explored quite a bit in OB. I think you may have misread Harmony as Honor Edited July 19, 2018 by The Forgetful Archivist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, The Forgetful Archivist said: I think you may have misread Harmony as Honor Question #2 in the OP was "What Happened to Honor and Ruin's Perpendicularities?" so I answered that. 1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said: This is theorized, but has not been confirmed in the books. The Highstorm provided stormlight before Honor ever came to the planet. Honor has changed the Stormfather and the Highstorm by extension, but placing his perpendicularity there is not confirmed. Im not making any statements about when or how it got there, but Spoiler per Azure/Khriss and the Spren denizens of Shadesmar, there are two active perpendicularities on Roshar, one they call "Cultivation's Perpendicularity" which is located in the Horneater Peaks, and the other one that is "unpredictable and dangerous, and appears randomly in different places" and which we later saw riding the shadesmar side of the Highstorm, did we not? Unless there's a theory floating that we were seeing Odium's perpendicularity, meaning the Spren considered Honor's entirely gone/inactive? What did I miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 @Quantus Honor's perpendicularity is mobile and can refresh Stormlight... But that does not mean it's the Highstorm. Quote Narkac Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight? Brandon Sanderson The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm. source The Stormlight is pushed into the Highstorm through the Stormfather himself. There's also this. Quote Questioner Is there any way it's possible that somebody could have gotten to the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial without the Well of Ascension? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner And can we know how? Brandon Sanderson Well, how many Shardpools would Scadrial have? Questioner Two, so the Pits of Hathsin would be so? That's what I theorized. Brandon Sanderson Yes. So you've adopted the term "Shardpool". That was never really my term, but I've started using it. What happens with a perpendicularity is large concentrations of Investiture, particularly purely attuned to one of the Shards, will create an access point. You've seen another one in-- Questioner Yeah, yeah I know these. Brandon Sanderson You know which one I'm referencing? Questioner Yes. Brandon Sanderson That you didn't see a Pool from? Questioner Oh wait-- Brandon Sanderson Okay, he knows, so… We'll move on. *general outcry* Okay, fine. Umm, at the end of Words of Radiance. Argent There has to be one there because Jasnah has to leave somehow, right? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but Honor's Perpendicularity moves. Questioner Woah...so...Highstorm? Brandon Sanderson *makes non-committal noises* Questioner 2 Kind of related to that, I don't know if this is a RAFO kind of question, but you call them perpendicularities, are we going to see this sort of thing created? Could there be, like-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah, perpendicularities can be created. You'd need a lot of Investiture, right? You'd need a ton of Investiture. But, basically what Jasnah does is create a little mini perpendicularity, right? And slips herself into the Cognitive Realm. Questioner 2 So it's just a question of skill, not a question of-- Brandon Sanderson Yeah. It's hard to pull off, but some of the powers are built to do it. source It's not outright stated, but that implies that Jasnah returned to the physical Honor's perpendicularity, and there was no Highstorm there in the unclaimed hills at the time. It's not definitive, and the visual effect makes me think she just got her hands on Stormlight and Elsecaller back... But with the Stormfather being the source of stormlight in the storm it's definitely enough for me to question any certainty of where Honor's perpendicularity is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Wandering Investor Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Quantus said: Im not making any statements about when or how it got there, but Hide contents per Azure/Khriss and the Spren denizens of Shadesmar, there are two active perpendicularities on Roshar, one they call "Cultivation's Perpendicularity" which is located in the Horneater Peaks, and the other one that is "unpredictable and dangerous, and appears randomly in different places" and which we later saw riding the shadesmar side of the Highstorm, did we not? Unless there's a theory floating that we were seeing Odium's perpendicularity, meaning the Spren considered Honor's entirely gone/inactive? What did I miss? The Highstorm is on a pattern, so it cannot be called random, which Honor's perpendicularity is noted as being difficult to find. We did see the highstorm in the cognitive, and it is filled to the brim with investiture, but that doesn't' make it a perpendicularity. While the highstorm has a significant presence in all the realms, it was not noted as being a place to cross realms, a key feature of a perpendicularity. Perpendicularities are noted as being dense enough to blur the lines between the realms and all observed ones have been small, while the Highstorm is vast and does not blur the lines. OB Spoiler: Spoiler We saw Honor's perpendicularity at the end of OB when Dalinar summoned it. It was far smaller and more concentrated than the Highstorm. Some do theorize that Honor's perp may be riding at the center of the highstorm, or may appear at the origin. But this has not been confirmed, and I disagree with it as the Highstorm's ability to obtain mass quantities of investiture and distribute it across Roshar was a feature built into the planet by Adonalsium prior to the shattering. But the rules on how perpendiculaities operate are unknown, so anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 TheManKnownAsHoid Posted July 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Wandering Investor said: There is traffic going on to and off of Scadrial to the rest of the cosmere, so there has to be a perpendicularity, which all perpendicularitys so far have been observed to create a pool, so yes, there should* be a shardpool somewhere. Not all the perpendicularities have been pools. We have the one Dalinar created. Also, can anybody tell me how to hide spoilers for my future posts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calderis said: @Quantus Honor's perpendicularity is mobile and can refresh Stormlight... But that does not mean it's the Highstorm. The Stormlight is pushed into the Highstorm through the Stormfather himself. There's also this. It's not outright stated, but that implies that Jasnah returned to the physical Honor's perpendicularity, and there was no Highstorm there in the unclaimed hills at the time. It's not definitive, and the visual effect makes me think she just got her hands on Stormlight and Elsecaller back... But with the Stormfather being the source of stormlight in the storm it's definitely enough for me to question any certainty of where Honor's perpendicularity is. Ah, ok, I gotcha. I see where I was making an assumption with the spren's statements. That WOB about Jasnah though, that's the same one Ive seen specifically used as evidence that Perpendicularities are not the sole purview of a Shardic Perpendicularity but rather a statement that lesser ones, "mini-perpendicularities", can be created by lesser powers (Elsecalling and the Surge of Transportation in Jasnah's case)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 11 hours ago, CrazyRioter said: There must be a new one somewhere, as Hoid has been on and off Scadrial, If The Traveller is assumed to be canon, Hoid was able to get off of Scadrial immediately after the events of Hero of Ages, or possibly before and he observed the goings-on from the Cognitive Realm. Given that Ruin's Perpendicularity had already been disrupted and Preservation's was 'empty' and then both simply ceased, he may have some other way of getting offworld but it's not as easy as using the pools. Either that or Harmony's Perpendicularity formed really quickly. But yeah, having the has Sazed a Perpendicularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kaj he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 Here and I thought that: Spoiler Honor's Perpendicularity was the one Dalinar created and the dangerous one was Odium's. Now you are making me wonder. Because it probably makes more sense for Odium's Perpendicularity to be on Braize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Wandering Investor Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, TheManKnownAsHoid said: Not all the perpendicularities have been pools. We have the one Dalinar created. Also, can anybody tell me how to hide spoilers for my future posts? You are correct, although all of the large stable perpendicularities seen thus far have formed pools. But you're right, the term shardpool is something the communicty came up with that Brandon adopted, his original concept was less focused on the pools. Also, when you're making your post, on the row of icons above your text is an eye, click that to create a spoiler. 1 hour ago, Weltall said: If The Traveller is assumed to be canon, Hoid was able to get off of Scadrial immediately after the events of Hero of Ages, or possibly before and he observed the goings-on from the Cognitive Realm. Given that Ruin's Perpendicularity had already been disrupted and Preservation's was 'empty' and then both simply ceased, he may have some other way of getting offworld but it's not as easy as using the pools. Either that or Harmony's Perpendicularity formed really quickly. Hoid was seen on Roshar SA first half, and then on Scadrial 2nd Era which occued later, and Khriss has been sighted on Scadrial as well, so there are canon examples of world hoppers appearing on post Harmony Scadrial. There's a perpendicularity somewhere. I think the Traveller can be assumed as canon, but there is no way to date how soon or long after the Catacendre it occurred. 1 hour ago, Quantus said: That WOB about Jasnah though, that's the same one Ive seen specifically used as evidence that Perpendicularities are not the sole purview of a Shardic Perpendicularity but rather a statement that lesser ones, "mini-perpendicularities", can be created by lesser powers (Elsecalling and the Surge of Transportation in Jasnah's case)? Non-shardic perpendicularites do exist. There are some on Threnody where some of Ambition's power, but not all it, is, and the perps may not be caused by ambition at all. The surge of transportation can form perps as well. Notably, there is a perpendiculaity on First of the Sun that exist without the presence of a shard. Interesting, Brandon has stated that although Shards have since meddled, everything on First of the Sun would exist without shardic interference, indicating that the perpendicularity there existed without any help from shards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Weltall Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: Hoid was seen on Roshar SA first half, and then on Scadrial 2nd Era which occued later, and Khriss has been sighted on Scadrial as well, so there are canon examples of I think the Traveller can be assumed as canon, but there is no way to date how soon or long after the Catacendre it occurred. Given that Hoid was still wearing his 'skaa informant' disguise and had ash in his hair during that scene, he must have come straight from Scadrial after it happened. If he had to spend any amount of time waiting around on the planet post-Catacendre, one assumes that a man Brandon has described as liking his creature comforts would have had a bath and changed his clothes. Quote Notably, there is a perpendiculaity on First of the Sun that exist without the presence of a shard. Interesting, Brandon has stated that although Shards have since meddled, everything on First of the Sun would exist without shardic interference, indicating that the perpendicularity there existed without any help from shards. Patji's Eye is 'Autonomy-flavored' and Bavadin is 'aware' of it but yeah, it probably formed before the Shattering due to whatever Adonalsium did on the planet beforehand. We know that it's possible for a world to have a Perpendicularity owing to the presence of a Shard, then have it persist even after the Shard leaves, so something similar probably happened pre-Shattering. Edited July 19, 2018 by Weltall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 39 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said: Non-shardic perpendicularites do exist. There are some on Threnody where some of Ambition's power, but not all it, is, and the perps may not be caused by ambition at all. The surge of transportation can form perps as well. Notably, there is a perpendiculaity on First of the Sun that exist without the presence of a shard. Interesting, Brandon has stated that although Shards have since meddled, everything on First of the Sun would exist without shardic interference, indicating that the perpendicularity there existed without any help from shards. Right, but what has me confused is that the very same part of the WOB that I'd seen people point to as evidence that Jasnah's Order/surge is creating Mini-perpendicularities, but @Calderis used it as evidence that Jasnah had used Honor's Perpendicularity, which sounds off to me in a couple ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Quantus said: Right, but what has me confused is that the very same part of the WOB that I'd seen people point to as evidence that Jasnah's Order/surge is creating Mini-perpendicularities, but @Calderis used it as evidence that Jasnah had used Honor's Perpendicularity, which sounds off to me in a couple ways That's not the part. Jasnah is capable of creating mini perps, but in direct relation to "Shardpools" at the beginning of that WoB, he brings up her re-emergence. That implies a stable Perp. But a mobile one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, Calderis said: That's not the part. Jasnah is capable of creating mini perps, but in direct relation to "Shardpools" at the beginning of that WoB, he brings up her re-emergence. That implies a stable Perp. But a mobile one. D'oh! Now Im back on the right page. Ok, one last nitpicky question @Calderis: that part sounds to me like it was referring to when she first left, as opposed to when she returned; was there a storm present when she first left Roshar/PR that he might have been referring to instead? It's been too long since I read WoR that I dont remember all the happenstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Wandering Investor Posted July 19, 2018 Report Share Posted July 19, 2018 49 minutes ago, Quantus said: D'oh! Now Im back on the right page. Ok, one last nitpicky question @Calderis: that part sounds to me like it was referring to when she first left, as opposed to when she returned; was there a storm present when she first left Roshar/PR that he might have been referring to instead? It's been too long since I read WoR that I dont remember all the happenstance. Jasnah can create perpendicularitys if she has stormlight, which she did on the ship. However, considering the amount of time she spent in the cognitive realm, where stormlight fades and there are no reliable sources, and throw in Brandon's mentioning her escape while on the topic of Honor's perp, it is theorized that that was her escape route. 1 hour ago, Weltall said: Patji's Eye is 'Autonomy-flavored' and Bavadin is 'aware' of it but yeah, it probably formed before the Shattering due to whatever Adonalsium did on the planet beforehand. We know that it's possible for a world to have a Perpendicularity owing to the presence of a Shard, then have it persist even after the Shard leaves, so something similar probably happened pre-Shattering. This is true, and I won't dive too deep because it opens up the native Adonalsium investiture debate, but yes shards, notably Autonomy and maybe others, have been to the planet and meddled, but the specific part about everything there being capable of existing without shardic influence indicates the presence of a shardpool without the presence of a shard or without a shard creating one and then leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BitBitio he/him Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 3:25 PM, Quantus said: D'oh! Now Im back on the right page. Ok, one last nitpicky question @Calderis: that part sounds to me like it was referring to when she first left, as opposed to when she returned; was there a storm present when she first left Roshar/PR that he might have been referring to instead? It's been too long since I read WoR that I dont remember all the happenstance. Calderis hasn't answered because the tagging system didn't... it didn't work. It glitches out. Here. @Calderis. Hi Cal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Calderis he/him Posted August 5, 2018 Report Share Posted August 5, 2018 I hadn't answered cause I didn't have time when I saw the question, and forgot about it. No, Jasnah left on a boat at sea. If there were a storm they'd have been docked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Quantus he/him Posted August 6, 2018 Report Share Posted August 6, 2018 Honestly so had I. Thanks @Calderis, and thanks @BitBitio for looking out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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TheManKnownAsHoid
Does Harmony have a Perpendicularity? And what happened to Honor and Ruin's perpendicularities? Were they destroyed when Sazed Ascended? Were they merged? Was a new one created?
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