Disappointed in other books

[LSU Tiger he/him]

So many people recommending the Malazan books. I read the first one and could not bring myself to read any more of them. It's not that it was badly written or the story wasn't good or anything. The writing was great and the story itself was interesting enough. It's just that book did not explain anything. So many things popping up and not a hint of backstory given for much of anything. And the magic system...those mage warren things...that was the biggest thing, I like to be able to understand why magic works the way that it does and that book didn't explain the magic system at all.

 

 

 

He does more backstory and more about the magic system as the series goes on. Your still in the intro there's another 10,000 pages to go.

[Confused]

Gotta say...We're all p.o.'d at Martin for taking forever and losing his way with ASOIAF. But the fact is, he's a superb writer and world-builder - better than everyone mentioned. ASOIAF is as novel, intricate and complex a story as any, yet wonderfully engaging (until recently). I'm hoping Martin will get himself going again soon, now that the TV series has almost caught up with the novels.

 

And Jon Snow is a GREAT hero - AND IS NOT DEAD!

[Ketek]

I have no idea how to quote, but Wolven, if you're a fan of well-written fight scenes - Stover is the go-to guy. Better than even Salvatore.

 

But storms, the 7th Drizzt book was AWESOME. "D*mn you! D*mn you, Drizzt Do'Urden!"

[Asha'man Logain]

Guys I will add the series Codex Alera, Night Angel trilogy and some YA goodies such as Bartimaeus and Monster Hunter International.

I dunno what about you but I find Abercrombie characters and fighting scenes on per with Stormlight Archieve books, just his story and scope (and endings) give much to desire.

 

BS knows how to combine well crafted story, grand scope and fine characters wich develops over time and Isn't scared to kill them off if the story demends it.

The little tidbits about the cosmere and foreshadowing he throws in after the xxx number of drafts shows he really cares.

 

Hey guys! I personally liked the Dresden files WAY more than Codex Alera. Interesting fact, he wrote the first Dresden book in school as a white mutiny against his writing teacher. He tried to do everything she told him exactly to the point of being terrible, but somehow it worked. As for Codex Alera, he took a bet he could make a good story out of any 2 terrible ideas. The ideas chosen were the 'lost roman legion' and pokemon.

[Necromancer he/him]

Hey guys! I personally liked the Dresden files WAY more than Codex Alera. Interesting fact, he wrote the first Dresden book in school as a white mutiny against his writing teacher. He tried to do everything she told him exactly to the point of being terrible, but somehow it worked. As for Codex Alera, he took a bet he could make a good story out of any 2 terrible ideas. The ideas chosen were the 'lost roman legion' and pokemon.

 

It even goes so far as Bob, Harry's source of information, being a jab at his teacher. His teacher said no one likes something that is there just to spout information. She called those 'talking heads'. So Jim made Bob a literal talking head.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Necromancer

[Shaggai]

Gotta say...We're all p.o.'d at Martin for taking forever and losing his way with ASOIAF. But the fact is, he's a superb writer and world-builder - better than everyone mentioned. ASOIAF is as novel, intricate and complex a story as any, yet wonderfully engaging (until recently). I'm hoping Martin will get himself going again soon, now that the TV series has almost caught up with the novels.

 

And Jon Snow is a GREAT hero - AND IS NOT DEAD!

Face it, Snow is dead, at least the human part of him. He's probably not going to stay that way, though, unless he goes full warg.

[kaellok he/him]

Gotta say...We're all p.o.'d at Martin for taking forever and losing his way with ASOIAF. But the fact is, he's a superb writer and world-builder - better than everyone mentioned. ASOIAF is as novel, intricate and complex a story as any, yet wonderfully engaging (until recently). I'm hoping Martin will get himself going again soon, now that the TV series has almost caught up with the novels.

 

And Jon Snow is a GREAT hero - AND IS NOT DEAD!

Strong disagreement.  I'm fine with GRRM never publishing another book.  Maybe I'm disappointed that he lost his way and then lied to fans about it for 6 years, but that's ok.  The fact is that he had a few pretty good books (I mentioned that the first three were good already), but 4 and 5 straight up prove he's not 'great.'  If his world-building were as superior as you claim, then more people would like parts of the world that aren't Westeros; even my friends that still enjoy the books hate the east and the desert.  His prose isn't particularly stellar either; it's definitely not bad, but is more what you might call functional.  It's not beautiful like Rothfuss or invisible like Sanderson's.  The story is less and less engaging as it stall as sputters and the initial sympathetic characters are killed off and replaced by new cast members to await their own turn to die; it takes great glee in 'faking out' readers, leaving it a long, boring guessing game of "who is going to die next?"

 

While such a game may be entertaining, it has little lasting appeal to me.  I don't find enjoyment in reading about boring characters being bad people just because they're bad people, especially if they remain virtually unchanged throughout until they eventually die--with Jaime Lannister being apparently the one exception.  It's fine if you like the books, or love them; there is a lot to like in the first three.  But using a variation of the formula from the Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street movies is hardly worthy of the descriptor 'great'--and after five books, he has proven that that's his forte.

 

Edit: GRRM is, without a doubt, not superior at world-building or story-telling than everyone else mentioned, as you claim, and led to me writing this snarly diatribe in response.

Edited April 7, 2014 by kaellok

[Wolven he/him]

I have no idea how to quote, but Wolven, if you're a fan of well-written fight scenes - Stover is the go-to guy. Better than even Salvatore.

 

But storms, the 7th Drizzt book was AWESOME. "D*mn you! D*mn you, Drizzt Do'Urden!"

That good huh? I'll have to give him a read then. He has stiff competition in Salvatore though, he has always made me able to see every move.

And yes...yes 'The Legacy' was very, very nioe.

[Eejit]

Face it, Snow is dead, at least the human part of him. He's probably not going to stay that way, though, unless he goes full warg.

 

Well,

there are a whole bunch of theories of how he might live, from Mel healing him from near-death to the cold drastically reducing blood loss from the wounds. Saying "face it" is unconvincing.

[Ketek]

Yeah, he is that good Wolven, although we may well have differing tastes.

 

The Return was the absolute best RAS novel. Artemis vs. Drizzt. Again. And again. And again. And storming again. Beautiful.

[Ati]

Strong disagreement.  I'm fine with GRRM never publishing another book.  Maybe I'm disappointed that he lost his way and then lied to fans about it for 6 years, but that's ok.  The fact is that he had a few pretty good books (I mentioned that the first three were good already), but 4 and 5 straight up prove he's not 'great.'  If his world-building were as superior as you claim, then more people would like parts of the world that aren't Westeros; even my friends that still enjoy the books hate the east and the desert.  His prose isn't particularly stellar either; it's definitely not bad, but is more what you might call functional.  It's not beautiful like Rothfuss or invisible like Sanderson's.  The story is less and less engaging as it stall as sputters and the initial sympathetic characters are killed off and replaced by new cast members to await their own turn to die; it takes great glee in 'faking out' readers, leaving it a long, boring guessing game of "who is going to die next?"

 

While such a game may be entertaining, it has little lasting appeal to me.  I don't find enjoyment in reading about boring characters being bad people just because they're bad people, especially if they remain virtually unchanged throughout until they eventually die--with Jaime Lannister being apparently the one exception.  It's fine if you like the books, or love them; there is a lot to like in the first three.  But using a variation of the formula from the Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street movies is hardly worthy of the descriptor 'great'--and after five books, he has proven that that's his forte.

 

Edit: GRRM is, without a doubt, not superior at world-building or story-telling than everyone else mentioned, as you claim, and led to me writing this snarly diatribe in response.

 

Nicely done Kaellok.  I'm going to start a movement to have this be the cover blurb and kindle sample for anything GRRM writes from now on.   Yay for protagonist russian roulette!

[traceria she/her]

MrFloobie - Glad you mentioned Gaiman!  I don't know that the OP would like him, but I keep telling my husband he needs to read at least Anansi Boys and American Gods if nothing else.  If anyone loves mythology, those books are so great.

 

Asha'man Logain - I also like the Dresden books better.  I don't often reread books, but I've read through that series three times, I think.

[taliefer]

I disagree. Jordan was great, don't get me wrong. But there is no one that I have ever read that makes worlds anywhere near unique as Sanderson's. They are just so different. I love how he doesn't just plop elves and dwarves and dragons in there and other commonly seen fantasy stuff.

 

could just be a matter of taste i suppose. being more unique does not necessarily mean better to me. Roshar is definitely the most cosmetically unique fantasy setting ive read, and it is indeed great.  But Jordan also didnt just plop in elves and dwarves and dragons, there are none.

 

sandersons worlds are more...fantastical. but as far as depth of world history, knowledge, different cultures all with their own uinque histories and quirks, Jordan by far takes the cake for me.

 

i prefer the totally fleshed out world of the wheel of time, with the long breadth of history and *weight* to it. Sanderson could very well get there by the time we are done however. even in Jordan's first couple books of the series, the world building was fantastic and had established just more than sanderson has so far with Roshar.

[Ketek]

could just be a matter of taste i suppose. being more unique does not necessarily mean better to me. Roshar is definitely the most cosmetically unique fantasy setting ive read, and it is indeed great.  But Jordan also didnt just plop in elves and dwarves and dragons, there are none.

 

sandersons worlds are more...fantastical. but as far as depth of world history, knowledge, different cultures all with their own uinque histories and quirks, Jordan by far takes the cake for me.

 

i prefer the totally fleshed out world of the wheel of time, with the long breadth of history and *weight* to it. Sanderson could very well get there by the time we are done however. even in Jordan's first couple books of the series, the world building was fantastic and had established just more than sanderson has so far with Roshar.

 

IMO, Jordan's worldbuilding was... meh. I'm not saying it wasn't detailed, I'm saying there really wasn't anything super special about it. It has history, sure, but (for me at least) it's never been quite as fascinating as Roshar's, even though Roshar's history has yet to be fully revealed.

[Shaggai]

Well,

there are a whole bunch of theories of how he might live, from Mel healing him from near-death to the cold drastically reducing blood loss from the wounds. Saying "face it" is unconvincing.

I said he wasn't going to stay that way. He'll die, but then he'll probably come back to life.

[Eejit]

And my point was that even that is an unwarranted assumption.

[taliefer]

ive given up reading a song of ice and fire. the last couple books were just kinda meh. i think i like the tv show better than the series anyhow.

 

the books were fine, i just never thought martin was all he was hyped up to be. its a good but not great fantasy series that the author lost control of cause he wanted to kill people off willy nilly.

 

if jon snow is indeed dead, i have 0 interest in picking up the books again. i'll be lookin for spoilers when the next book comes out in 3 years.

[sacredhonour]

So many people recommending the Malazan books. I read the first one and could not bring myself to read any more of them. It's not that it was badly written or the story wasn't good or anything. The writing was great and the story itself was interesting enough. It's just that book did not explain anything. So many things popping up and not a hint of backstory given for much of anything. And the magic system...those mage warren things...that was the biggest thing, I like to be able to understand why magic works the way that it does and that book didn't explain the magic system at all.

 

He does more backstory and more about the magic system as the series goes on. Your still in the intro there's another 10,000 pages to go.

 

 

On Malazan: As LSU stated, he explains much more as you get through the books.  That 1st book might as well be the Prologue for the series but everything makes much more sense (for the most part) as more is revealed.  There are still people and beings in the books that you will always wonder about and where they come from, but the magic system and much of the backstory of the characters from the first book are revealed later on.

 

Other recommendations outside of the Epic Fantasies we all kepe talking about (WoT, GoT, Malazan, Sanderson, etc):

• "American Gods" by Neil Gaiman; few people have mentioned this but this is a great take on a modern day myth/fairy-tale about about the cultural melting pot that is America and what happens to Gods here.
• The Night Angel series by Brent Weeks: What is not to like about cheering for the boy turned assassin?  Great action packed story.
• The Gentleman Bastard series by Scott Lynch:  Imagine someone took Ocean's 11 and dropped it into a fantasy world.  The writing is perfectly paced, amusing, and the cons are great to read.  Plus Scott Lynch seems to love describing and inventing food, which has inspired sites to create actual recipes from his descriptions.
• All of the Jim Butcher books, just all of them.  I prefer Dresden Files over Alera Codex but both are good.  Dresden has some great humor in it.  Imagine Harry Potter turned 30, decides to be a "magician for hire," moves to Chicago, and is now a wise chull.  It's kind of perfect.  Plus Bob.  
• "Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell" by Susanna Clarke:  Personally I thought this book was great.  Historical fantasy set in England and one of the wars against France, about two magicians in an otherwise non-magical world.
• The Iron Druid Chronicles by Kevin Hearne: 6 books about a druid in modern day America.  It's a very engaging read, and shorter than most of the stuff I recommended above.
• "Promise of Blood" by Brian McClellan: Revolution era (guns!) like setting with an intriguing magic system.  This is the start of the Powder Mage series and if the second book is as good as this one, he has a long career.
• "Blood Song" by Anthony Ryan: This is another great first book, which if the follow-up is just as good will be very interesting. Follows the legends of the main character moving through his life and this is the first chapter (he grows up quick, it doesn't keep him as a teenager long).
• Traveler's Gate Trilogy by Will Wight: This is the debut trilogy by a self-publishing author, that so far I have found to be very engaging.  They are relatively quick reads with an intriguing magic system, amusing characters, and a very engaging writing style (IMO) 

[Ati]

You stole my reading list Sacredhonour!  Going to have to check out Susanna Clarke.  She's the only one on your list that I haven't read besides Malazan.  You may also enjoy The (Sort of) Dark Mage, Waldo Rabbit by Nelson Chereta.  It's not the same type as the above, more of a fantasy spoof that I thought was well done.  Read it at the same time as Will Wight though, and enjoyed both authors' works thoroughly.  

[Asha'man Logain]

Brent Week's new series is pretty good too. The first book is called the Black Prism. very good, light/color based magic system

[metatr0n]

Brent Week's new series is pretty good too. The first book is called the Black Prism. very good, light/color based magic system

 

He would be great writer if only he found another way to drive his plots. Now its misunderstanding/not sharing information, bet super annoying super fast.

[Babybalrog]

I'll defiantly support Dresden Files by Jim Butcher. They are one of the few books I've reread. If you've ever been over to JIm's forums you'll realize the world he's created is just as complicated and interrelated as Sanderson's and yet, it takes place in our world. People comb through every page of his books looking for details and foreshadowing. 

 

The first book is a little weak. I recently saw an interview with Jim, and he now recommends people start with book 6, Dead Beat. But I still prefer to go in order, because, God the spoilers!

 

His other series, Codex Alera is a fun romp through many traditional fantasy troupes (remember Jim wrote it on a dare, where he advocated the skill of writing over the novelty of the story), and I've reread them. Book 3 several times. 

 

My other (living) author i would put up beside Brandon and Jim, is Patrick Rothfuss, and the Name of the Wind. This is an excellent series. With a deep, tragic main character. People complain that the character is too over the top, mary sue-ish. However I think it's pretty clear that's how the character is meant to be perceived, and the scenes at the inn bring that full circle. Tragic Flaw indeed.

 

Now they all bring strengths and weaknesses. I find Brandon to be the master plotter, Jim to have really fun characters (Bob, Molly, Lash, etc), and Rothfuss is so elegant in prose, and story telling ability (the multiple references to the same event etc). And they all have different sub-genres they write in (Epic Fantasy, Heroic Fantasy, and Urban Fantasy). Between the three you have everything you need. 

 

EDIT: Also, still gotta push by Frank Herbert, DUNE fanboyism. I never need to read another sci-fi book in my life.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Babybalrog

[Eejit]

So many people recommending the Malazan books. I read the first one and could not bring myself to read any more of them. It's not that it was badly written or the story wasn't good or anything. The writing was great and the story itself was interesting enough. It's just that book did not explain anything. So many things popping up and not a hint of backstory given for much of anything. And the magic system...those mage warren things...that was the biggest thing, I like to be able to understand why magic works the way that it does and that book didn't explain the magic system at all.

 

The story gets worse. Some characters, worldbuilding and events are inconsistent to an almost retcon-like degree. Jesus-style plot armor is prevalent. The big finale was a rather cheesy anti-climax. 

It wasn't all bad by any means and Malazan certainly still outclasses Sword of Truth, but I'd never list the books as top-tier.

 

The Deathgate series is another one I found disappointingly overrated. Approach with caution and be warned that if you didn't like the first book it doesn't improve that significantly.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Eejit

[cris34b he/him]

Just in case you don't want to read through all of that up there, I went ahead and did it for you, wrote down all of the Author names I caught. Google this stuff, read it, have fun.

A

·         Joe Abercrombie

·         Daniel Abraham

·         Lloyd Alexander

·         Margaret Atwood

B

·         R. Scott Bakker

·         Peter V. Brett

·         Terry Brooks

·         Lois McMaster Bujold

·         Jim Butcher

C

·         Miles Cameron

·         Trudi Canavan

·         Wes Chu

·         Susanna Clarke

·         Harry Connolly

·         Glen Cook

·         Larry Correia

E

·         David Edding

·         Steven Erikson

G

·         Neil Gaiman

·         David Gemmell

·         Terry Goodkind

·         Mira Grant

·         Ursula K. Le Guin

·         John Gwynn

H

·         Laurel Hamilton

·         Kevin Hearne

·         Frank Herbert

·         Jim Hines

·         Mark Hodder

·         Paul Hoffman

J

·         N.K. Jemisin

·         Diana Wynne Jones

K

·         Stephen King

·         E.E. Knight

L

·         Mark Lawrence

·         Tom Lloyd

·         Scott Lynch

M

·         Michael Manning

·         George R.R. Martin

·         Brian McClellan

·         China Mieville

·         John Milton

·         David Mitchell

·         Elizabeth Moon

N

·         Naomi Novik

P

·         Robert B. Parker

·         Terry Pratchett

R

·         John Ringo

·         Patrick Rothfuss

·         Anthony Ryan

S

·         Michelle Sagara

·         Lilith Saintcrow

·         Brandon Sanderson

·         John Scalzi

·         Michael J. Sullivan

W

·         David Weber

·         Brent Weeks

·         Dan Wells

·         Michelle West

·         Will Wight

·         Christopher Williams

·         Cinda Williams

·         Chris Woodings

 

Also, for my own contributions; 

 

"Mage's Blood" by David Hair is a very nice high fantasy book. Some sexual content in there, but if you've read Brent Weeks, you know what to expect. The magic is a lot simpler than Sanderson's, but it is explained in depth early on, allowing the reader to understand and think of the possibilities. The world building is excellent, and it is actually a very nice set of interconnecting stories spanning two continents dipping into a fantasy example of human flaw, greed, racism, and war. I'd recommend it any day.

 

Anything by Stephen Lawhead. He is a very good world builder, and I recommend The Song of Albion trilogy, which reveals a well made world of Celtic mythology. I'd describe it more, but... I can't. He is great, really. 

Edited April 9, 2014 by cris34b

[Uttrik]

Hello!  Just signed up so I could contribute to this awesome thread. 

 

I would like to recommend the Vlad Taltos series by Steven Brust.  They're a mix of fantasy and detective genres with a good amount of action set in a well built world.  The books are (mostly) set in the Dragaera (Dragaerans = elves, but call themselves human, and are the dominant species of the world) capitol city Adrilankha where the Easterner (actual humans, but are looked down upon as barbarians and lesser beings by the ruling class and are regulated mostly to the city slums) Vlad goes about his day working as an assassin, gangster, and part time thief.  With that said, these books are NOT high fantasy.  More like fantasy-lite with noir and humor.

 

I don't believe they ever got very popular, but I still remember sneaking out of a very boring sunday school class as a kid, going across the street to the local library, and finding the book Dragon (hey, it had a cool cover art and said DRAGON).  This series is actually what got me into fantasy novels.

 

Also, 100% in agreement with Babybalrog.  Dune is, and probably always will be, my #1 go-to book.