Ketek Posted April 27, 2014 Report Share Posted April 27, 2014 At that point, it's kind of like soulcasting - "Dear cognitive bead thing, here is the most plausible thing and reason for you to change into something, please change" - "OK". Take that as you will. I am a stick. I am a stick. I am a stick. I am a stick. I am a stick? ...I am a stick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I don't know too much about how forgery functions, so here is a question if anyone can assist. If theoretically a woman forged herself so that based on her past, she would end up being pregnant in the present. Would that work, and would the baby survive? It would be in a way, an immaculate conception lol. According to HER past, she was impregnated by an individual, but since soulforging only affects the person being forged (is that correct?), then the individual in reality never got her pregnant. So can she actually have a baby as result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 If this is possible, I think it would produce some sort of phantom pregnancy, where the body thinks it's pregnant, and behaves as such, but no other living being would be produced from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hmmm, that is a shame, cause if that is the case, then that could possibly explain what the Set is doing. They pick women descended from the ancient mistborn so their causal history is more in line, and forge them till the ancestry is stronger than it was prior to the forging. They then just add in a pregnancy from the forgery, have the women give birth to the child, and insta-mistborn is the result. Then again, if they were to do what I mentioned above, and then had someone impregnate them while forged, could the child be the product of the forged version? Even if the person eventually reverts back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I don't think they have access to Forging, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 And since there is no known method of using Forgery outside of the Maipon region, this would most likely necessitate a large amount of Worldhopping. Also, I don't think Brandon had had the idea for the Emperor's Soul yet when he wrote the Alloy of Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) True there is no evidence that they HAVE forging, but there is also no evidence that they DON'T lol. It is a huge stretch, but has anyone asked Brandon if forging has been seen on other worlds? I know he has mentioned hemalurgy is employed on other worlds, and he has also mentioned there would be mixing of abilities: For example Zahel/Vasher and Nightblood, Galladon, Demoux, and Blunt, and well the ever present Hoid So although I am with you Swimmingly that it is unlikely, it isn't impossible. And since there is no known method of using Forgery outside of the Maipon region, this would most likely necessitate a large amount of Worldhopping. Also, I don't think Brandon had had the idea for the Emperor's Soul yet when he wrote the Alloy of Law. But I believe Maipon is on the same world as Elantris, and if you reference by above spoiler, worldhopping has already occured from that location, so I do not believe that would be difficult. Regarding the order of writing, true AoL came out prior to Emporer's Soul, but in another case: He showed Vasher/Zahel in the second stormlight book, and then stated he was writing a second warbreaker book to explain why he is on roshar. So he has written books out of order sorta before So the more I type this, the more I see it could be at least a possibility. Edited April 28, 2014 by P4thf1nd3r 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I think I'll go as far as to claim that it is in fact impossible, at least at this point in the Cosmere time-line, when Cosmere awareness and further research into the nature of Investiture are still very limited. Brandon has specifically said that Hemalurgy is universal, while other magic systems for the most part (and those from Sel in particular) need considerable "jury-rigging" to be usable on other planets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Not to nitpick, but requiring "jury rigging" doesn't mean it is impossible, just difficult or improbable. And again just because we don't know something is possible, doesn't inherently make it impossible. Sanderson has said all magic systems are possible to be powered by others, just as you said it requires jury rigging. Hoid has shown this to be true. So has Galladon. If travel was was impossible from Sel, then explain him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 I didn't say that it was impossible impossible, just impossible in this specific context at this specific time in the Cosmere history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 When does Emperor's Soul take place in reference to Elantris? I looked up this thread shown below, and it seems to indicate that Elantris took place before Mistborn the original trilogy as well as WoK. If the Emporer's Soul is near Elantris in chronology, then I still think it is possible in the specific context at this specific time in the Cosmere history. If it isn't, then I stand corrected and upvote to you . http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1092-a-comprehensive-timeline/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aether he/him Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 It is not about the chronology of the Cosmere, but that the Realmatic knowledge on Scadrial is rather limited at this point. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable and ancient Cosmere Aware Worldhoppers, such as Hoid or Khriss, would be able to make Forging work on Scadrial, but Scadrians wouldn't have come far enough in their research and technology to do so without direct intervention from Harmony or the 17th Shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted April 28, 2014 Report Share Posted April 28, 2014 Then in that case I will have to respectfully disagree. Native Americans were no where near the technological level of Conquistadors, nor Columbus's expedition, but that didn't stop them from eventually getting their hands on guns and learning to use them. Now the native americans were practically wiped out, but my point is you do not need a full understanding of a technology in order to employ it. Which is why i feel the chronology IS important. Why should we assume all worldhoppers are benevolent? In the years that passed from Elantris to Alloy of Law, someone from Sel (like what Galladon did), could have worldhopped to Scadrial. By the time we reach the WoK's time line, we have numerious worldhoppers. One hinted by Brandon is a kandra. So I still think there is nothing saying that someone from another world with a greater understanding of investiture, couldn't have traveled to Scadrial, taught someone how to, and thereby now the Set holds that level of knowledge. Hell the journal Marasi is given could be the cypher for exactly that. Again, I don't know why but I feel this is very unlikely, and I doubt this is the direction that trilogy will go, but what I AM saying is it IS possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Hey guys this is an awesome thread I've only been skimming through because I'm at work and have been accused of playing Angry Birds twice This is quite a gruesome theory but could you cut the skin and place a bead of Lerasium inside the cut ? Like a alternate of Hemalurgy? Placed Inside the body so no Allomancy could touch it? Do you think that could give the 'holder' watered down Mistborn abilities?? "I protect the element like I protect my skin" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 This thread reminds me of Shin Sekai Yori. Going to go curl into a ball and cry a bit. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Depending on how Soulbearer Ferrings would interact with Hemalurgy, you could take a double Nicrosil Twinborn, give them small spikes for all abilities (so they could remove the spikes without dying. Basically, like what happened to Spook), have them store Investiture for all the metals, then remove the spikes. They could then compound nicrosil, giving them an unlimited store of all the metals. Strength wouldn't be an issue, as they could use Allomantic duralumin with everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well, let's see: -Hemalurgy transfers bits of Investiture in the Spiritual from one person to another -It's not an underlying mechanic of the Cosmere - it is Ruin's magic system. As a magic system, it likely has rules like needing intent, a focus, a target, etc. -However, it's implied that Atium used Allomantically breaks some of those rules itself, by supplying foreign Investiture within the framework of a system designed for Preservation's Investiture -Therefore, it would make a kind of sense for Lerasium to break the rules of Hemalurgy a little bit, by using Preservation's Investiture within a Ruinous system. -So, Lerasium used Hemalurgically probably is limited by the rules of Hemalurgy (must be placed in the body, degrades Investiture in transit) but also sidesteps some of these rules by already containing Investiture - it does not need to be taken from somewhere else -If indeed Lerasium can be used like this, hemalurgically, it should make sense that Atium provides it's own effects, not needing to use other Investiture. However, atium in fact can be used to steal anything. So, atium's Ruinous Investiture probably is a passive effect, doing whatever specific metal spikes usually do, but doing it with anything. -That suggests that using lerasium hemalurgically either drains Ruin's Investiture to perform the associated effects, or that it degrades the Preservation Investiture each time it is used. -Related assumed info from this: Hemalurgy consists of two sources of Investiture - the transferred effect and the direct effect. The transferred effect is the bit of the spiritweb ripped off and grafted on, and is determined by the type of metal used. The direct effect is the energy that keeps the hemalurgical creation alive while they are being spiked. This comes from Ruin, normally. Lerasium, used hemalurgically, provides both of these effects without needing a victim. Atium, on the other hand, has the Investiture that powers the latter effect contained within the metal; instead of replacing the stealing of Investiture, the ruinous investiture powering the first effect allows any piece of Investiture to be taken. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 In the course of this thread, dozens of Mistings and innocent candidates have been killed, distorted or dismembered and thousands of coins have been wasted, either in coinshot or in buying metals. But hey, no animals were harmed in the making of this thread! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 We haven't started on the Catquisitors yet... Besides, I've always been curious to see what happens if you're spiked with the strength of a bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 hell how about this. sharks spiked with the feruchemical ability to hold their breaths on land.......the sharnado......it is coming...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick he/him Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 hell how about this. sharks spiked with the feruchemical ability to hold their breaths on land.......the sharnado......it is coming......Give them steelpushing, and they can fly, too. ... Now have fun trying to sleep tonight, knowing that hovering just outside your window could be a ravenous, insane, spike-covered Sharkquisitor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 After talking to my boss, how about ant inquisitors with feruchemal pewter strength? Of course you would need to use hundreds of pins, but just think about it, a swarm of ants taking out a house........ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King he/him Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 After talking to my boss, how about ant inquisitors with feruchemal pewter strength? Of course you would need to use hundreds of pins, but just think about it, a swarm of ants taking out a house........ BEST. BOSS. EVER. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly he/him Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 Next day, P4th gets a promotion. "What's this for?" "Corporate takeover strategies." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsworn Panda he/him Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 You know, you could just make a Mistborn by getting a powerful electromagnet and fueling it by burning metals.Program it to predict the future and other abilities. The ram it into someone, regardless of where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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