Cosmere undead

[Ixthos he/him]

The Cosmere has several types of undead. Attempting to list those shown so far, and including a few redundancies, those so far shown are:

• Sel
  • Skeletals - the name is descriptive, they are necromantic skeletons, completely controlled by the bloodseals - they are, in effect, constructs that serve a function, rather than mindful creatures.
  • Svrakiss - ghosts able to possess humans, though not yet shown to be actual beings on the planet yet, rather hinted at, and maybe the same as the Fused.
• Scadrial
  • Steel inquisitors. Though not what one would typically think of as undead, they are animated by hemalurgy, with the removal of certain spikes killing them - spikes which themselves would be the cause of death if they hadn't rearranged the organs. They are like vampires, being associated with blood, stakes, and stealing the soul.
  • Kelsier. A unique example, as cognitive shadows wouldn't normally hang around in Scadrial without a regular way of forming.
• Roshar
  • Fused - like Svrakiss, they are ghosts able to possess the bodies of Singers, and possibly also humans, though the extent of their control of humans is not fully known. They might also be the so-called "Faceless Immortals" of the Set, counters to the Kandra, with their faceless nature and immortality being rather by stealing bodies rather than mimicking them.
  • Heralds - I wouldn't have put them on this list where it not for the fact that, like Returned and Kelsier, and Fused, they are cognitive shadows, and Returned, their closest analogue, are considered undead.
• Threnody
  • Shades - ghosts that haunt the forest. Difficult to directly place in terms of their minds, they are halfway between the two different types of undead, being neither controlled like constructs, or with their own full will like fused. They aren't fully material, but can touch physical objects. Unlike other cognitive shadows, they are not implied to be able to possess others.
• Nalthis
  • Lifeless - like Skeletals, they are necromantic constructs. If Skeletals are skeletons, then Lifeless are zombies, though it is possible to make a lifeless from nothing more than bones, and unlike skeletals, they are implied to be capable of more thought than their nature indicates, and might possibly be able to make their own choices
  • Returned - though I wouldn't consider them as such, they are considered similar to lifeless, and in some parts of Nalthis they are seen as vampires, needing to take from others in order to live.

 

Part of the reason for listing this is to consider other types of undead that might show up in other Cosmere novels, or might be present on the worlds already mentioned. There are two broad categories for two axes, being the intelligent / construct axis, and the physical / cognitive axis. Physically intelligent undead include Returned, Heralds, and Steel Inquisitors, with the first and third being very similar to vampires; Physical construct undead include Skeletals and Lifeless, with lifeless possibly straddling the line between construct and intelligent. Cognitive intelligent undead include bodiless Fused, Svrakiss, and Kelsier, basically all cognitive shadows, and all possibly able to make the jump back to physical bodies; Cognitive construct undead don't seem to fit on this list, though Shades might, while they also might fit on the centre of the axes, being both cognitive but able to affect the physical, not under anyone's control but also limited in what they can choose to do, with a few exceptions ...

 

So, can anyone else think of any other possible types of undead that might show up? A magic system that could let someone take control of cognitive shadows, or staple a cognitive shadow to a physical construct?

[Yata he/him]

Actually I disagree with the Steel Inquisitors placed as undead or much more like Vampire in the specific (this is something most in line with Returned, as you pointed).

But if you place the Inquisitors as Undeads simply because they are made with Hemalurgy, you probably need to place in the list Koloss too.
To me, any kind of Hemalurgic Construct is actually a Spiritual Frankenstein Monster... But honestly in the cosmere the whole definition of "undead" seems to me quite frail, under some assumption every Cognitive and Spiritual Being could count as a "ghost" of sort, Shards included

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Yata

[Ixthos he/him]

@Yata True, I think that due to how the Cosmere has been written it could be argued that there are no undead, but for the constructs types of undead all that is needed for something to be undead is for something that has died to now be animated, and for - as you noted - the ghost types it is someone who died physically but their mind remains in another world that touches the world of the living. Shards still have living bodies, so it could be argued they are still alive, but Kelsier having died, his body reduced to bones, he definitely fits the criteria of ghost, as he still hangs around. Ultimately, if the Cosmere has undead or just complex constructs that are based on formally living bodies or persisting minds depends entirely on how undead is defined.

I didn't include Koloss because - unless I am mistaken - they can't be killed by removing the spikes that made them, while a steel inquisitor dies without the spikes that made them, and if the spikes weren't hemalurgic they themselves would have killed them - much like a headless horseman is considered undead because how can it survive without a head?

[Spoolofwhool]

1 hour ago, Ixthos said:

I didn't include Koloss because - unless I am mistaken - they can't be killed by removing the spikes that made them, while a steel inquisitor dies without the spikes that made them, and if the spikes weren't hemalurgic they themselves would have killed them - much like a headless horseman is considered undead because how can it survive without a head?

Removing koloss spikes probably kill them as well as the amount of physical changes to them wouldn't be sustainable with the spikes twisting the spiritual to make that physical form work. Overall, I agree that hemalurgic constructs shouldn't be considered undead. They're just living things badly bent out of portion. Otherwise, you would also have to include Zane as an undead hemalurgic construct as removing his spike would likely kill him as well.

[Yata he/him]

Or also the Monks as their magic requires others to be sacrificed.

[Draginon he/him]

You could also count the Elantrians as 'undead' because they technically die but don't move onto the Cognitive Realm. Then there's the fact that Preservation says they're dead but not, and I'd take that to mean undead.

Would revived dead shardblades count as undead or just restored?

[Spoolofwhool]

7 hours ago, Draginon said:

You could also count the Elantrians as 'undead' because they technically die but don't move onto the Cognitive Realm. Then there's the fact that Preservation says they're dead but not, and I'd take that to mean undead.

Would revived dead shardblades count as undead or just restored?

I don't think Elantrians are ever really dead. During the Shaod they're caught mid-transformation so most of their bodily functions are arrested and they're physically just sustained by the Dor. Once that was over, then they're basically fully living people again, and may not even need the Dor to sustain themselves. 

[Stormlightning she/her]

It seems like you put the Set-serving faceless immortals under the Fused, but I am inclined they should go in their own category under Scadrial. I think of them as another form of spirits-who-possess-others/steal-others-bodies like the Fused and Svrakiss, but separate. Although I see why you wouldn't, as the one who kills Wax's uncle seems to refer to Scadrial in a disassociated way. I tend to think that several Shard's investiture might have the power to create beings that can possess others, as a natural result of some Spiritual/Cognitive thing we don't completely understand yet. Although, that's just my initial thought and not supported by anything.

[Ixthos he/him]

Apologies for the delay in responding!

 

@Spoolofwhool Actually, I think I will in the context of this discussion bite the bullet and accept that any hemalurgist, assuming the spike being removed would kill them, counts as undead, in much the same way as the headless horseman example would count - after all, if someone has a sword through their chest, and the only reason they aren't dead is because the magic in the sword is keeping them alive, and removing the sword would then kill them, that would be a form of undead. And if Returned and Heralds count as undead (and @Draginon, thank you for reminding about the Elantrians! Yes, they also were described as undead by Brandon, and their hearts not beating, nor any requirements of a living person, and no longer healing, thus no longer cellular growth) which themselves do not initially appear to be undead - after all, no-one knew Vasher was a Returned, they thought he was a regular human, and Heralds likewise are unknown to be Heralds - then Penrod and Zane should also be considered undead. Vin and the Kandra can survive without the spikes, and possibly the Koloss wouldn't count, but you do have a good point about their mass not being able to sustain them if the spikes were removed. I wouldn't count them as undead personally, but we both agree they aren't :-)

@Yata I wouldn't include the Monks though, as they gain abilities from death, that is valid, but the magic itself doesn't seem to sustain them, and they probably would survive without the Dor. My main reason for including Inquisitors isn't because they kill and mutilate their soul, but because the spikes would themselves have killed them if they weren't hemalurgy-based, and removing those spikes does kill them - again, I'm thinking of a headless horseman, and Marsh being the Scadrian version of the grim reaper.

@Stormlightning that's a good argument, but for now it isn't entirely clear if the Set's Faceless Immortals are unique to Trell, and as you said, they seem to have a history outside of Scadrial. The implication I've been getting is that Trell has coopted the power of other shards, that Trell is combining several systems together, and either stole, recruited, or otherwise mimicked at least some or perhaps all of the Fused with its Immortals. It could be an entirely unique form, but then it also could be an existing example, or another itteration of cognitive shadows. There definitely is more going on with how cognitive shadows work, but I do agree it is a mistake on my part to directly assume they are the same as Fused without further evidence. There should perhaps be a general category for universal Cosmere cognitive shadows.

As for shardblades, again, that is another example I should have added - they probably count as the same as Returned, or pre-fixed Elantris Elantrians, as Brandon has compared the two.