beantheboy12 he/him Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 When Nightblood kills a person, he takes their investiture. He also feeds off investiture when drawn. If Nightblood gathers enough investiture, he could rival the power of a shard. If he can defeat a shard, he can steel their investiture and defeat teams of shards. Eventually, he could defeat all the shards and become Adonalsium. Right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Pretty sure he has a limit. In OB theres a part where Nightblood has access to all 16 shards powers directly. For a good while too. But he just got full and acted like a drunk grandpa after a big meal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 He does have a limit, and he also doesn't keep all the Investiture he's stolen, but rather it leaks out and returns to its source (mostly, he keeps some of it), and as Thanatos said, he did have exposure to the entirety of all Investiture in the Spiritual Realm at one point towards the end of Oathbringer, and doesn't do much other than get really full. Someone asked once if Nightblood could eat the Dor and it was a no, which was added onto to say that Nightblood cannot eat an entire Shard at a time, much less all of them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 8 hours ago, Invocation said: He does have a limit, and he also doesn't keep all the Investiture he's stolen, but rather it leaks out and returns to its source (mostly, he keeps some of it), and as Thanatos said, he did have exposure to the entirety of all Investiture in the Spiritual Realm at one point towards the end of Oathbringer, and doesn't do much other than get really full. Someone asked once if Nightblood could eat the Dor and it was a no, which was added onto to say that Nightblood cannot eat an entire Shard at a time, much less all of them. Do you have a source for that? I had thought he was the specific exception to the statement that most "destroyed" investiture just returns to the spiritual realm. To the OP, I sincerely hope not, as I think he's retain some aspect of his original Command as his Intent (where he to even reach full Shardic levels or beyond) and that would make for a disastrously unbalanced supreme being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quantus said: Do you have a source for that? I had thought he was the specific exception to the statement that most "destroyed" investiture just returns to the spiritual realm. The Spiritual Realm is the source of all Investiture, and that's where it goes after Nightblood is done with it, to be recycled into fresh Investiture ready to be used, save for the bits that Nightblood keeps (which might actually be an expanding capacity). Edited January 14, 2019 by Invocation 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 57 minutes ago, Invocation said: The Spiritual Realm is the source of all Investiture, and that's where it goes after Nightblood is done with it, to be recycled into fresh Investiture ready to be used, save for the bits that Nightblood keeps (which might actually be an expanding capacity). Those are two different things as far as Ive been able to tell. Investiture that is "destroyed" via things like hemalurgy, destroyed physical containers, etc return to the Spritual Realm. Nightblood, meanwhile, is always described as "Consuming" Investiture as opposed to Destroying it, and questions about whether it goes back like standard Destroyed investiture have been RAFO'd, which was why I asked if you had a new datapoint to settle the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos he/him Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Quantus said: Those are two different things as far as Ive been able to tell. Investiture that is "destroyed" via things like hemalurgy, destroyed physical containers, etc return to the Spritual Realm. Nightblood, meanwhile, is always described as "Consuming" Investiture as opposed to Destroying it, and questions about whether it goes back like standard Destroyed investiture have been RAFO'd, which was why I asked if you had a new datapoint to settle the question. Nightblood leaks a black smoke, which is implied to actually be leaking, though it could be like a constant mist that returns to it as it fades, and so it retains everything it has eaten. I think that Nightblood is increasing in how much it has or can have, but there isn't a clear answer if it "leaks" leaks, or what it has absorbed spills out but remains a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Invocation Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Quantus said: Those are two different things as far as Ive been able to tell. Investiture that is "destroyed" via things like hemalurgy, destroyed physical containers, etc return to the Spritual Realm. Nightblood, meanwhile, is always described as "Consuming" Investiture as opposed to Destroying it, and questions about whether it goes back like standard Destroyed investiture have been RAFO'd, which was why I asked if you had a new datapoint to settle the question. There was a WOB about it, but I could not find it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Nighblood is powered by one of the Shards. Why would he be more powerful than they are? As evidence, Odium hasn’t destroyed any of the Shards that he has defeated. Given his goal of being the most powerful being in the Cosmere I feel like that would have been his go to rather than shattering them and leaving a small chance of someone else taking them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: As evidence, Odium hasn’t destroyed any of the Shards that he has defeated. Given his goal of being the most powerful being in the Cosmere I feel like that would have been his go to rather than shattering them and leaving a small chance of someone else taking them up. Hmm, is that a contradiction in your pocket or is your phone just autocorrect to see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said: Hmm, is that a contradiction in your pocket or is your phone just autocorrect to see it? Not sure where the contradiction is. Odium can’t destroy Shards, therefore Nightblood can’t. Sry if my point got mixed up. Edited January 14, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 There is a WOB that says Nightblood is very slowly consuming investiture in the Cosmere. This investiture is nullified and cannot be reused. However theres another WOB that contradicts it and says all investiture he consumes goes back to the source. Not sure which came first and I'm crap at searching them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 emailanimal From a very recent signing, we have this new Word of Brandon... chasmfriend's son: Is there a finite amount of Investiture? Brandon: Yes. chasmfriend's son: So is Nightblood consuming it? Brandon: Yes. Very, very slowly. This worries me somewhat because of the following observation. Nightblood consumes Breath (and other Investiture, but let's limit ourselves to Breath for a second). Every person on Nalthis is born with one Breath. Populations tend to grow. Which means that under normal rules of demographics, population of Nalthis should keep increasing. This in turn means that under normal circumstances the number of people with Breath on Nalthis should be growing. I can see the following possible explanations to this: Endowment can give Breath to many more people than are currently living on Nalthis. So, the exponential population growth has not yet reached the level at which Endowment's ability to award a Breath to each Nalthis-born human is seriously challenged. When it happens though, things will not go well. There is some built-in mechanism controlling population growth on Nalthis, making certain that the population stays within the limits. Nightblood's consumption of Breath makes these limits smaller, and overall may lead to Endowment's inability to grant Breath to Nalthis-born, but not for a while (essentially, Endowment controls population trends at she sees fit). Thoughts? Brandon Sanderson Just as a point you should understand, the amount of MATTER in the cosmere is finite too. As is the amount of energy. Worrying that Endowment will run out of Breaths to give is a little like worrying that the amount of carbon on Earth will run out because people keep being born. uchoo786 So just for clarification, once Nightblood consumes investiture, that investiture gets recycled? That's what I've always assumed. That it enters the cognitive/spiritual realm? Brandon Sanderson The investiture he consumes is not gone forever--it's not leaving the system, so to speak. source Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Does Nightblood annihilate Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Investiture cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change forms. But, anything more than that is a RAFO. source chasmfriend's son Is there a finite amount of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Yes. chasmfriend's son So is Nightblood consuming it? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Very, very slowly. source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 I think this is a bit like worrying about the personal impact that the heat/cold death of the universe will have on the people reading this thread. That is to say, none at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beantheboy12 he/him Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 7 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Nighblood is powered by one of the Shards. Why would he be more powerful than they are? As evidence, Odium hasn’t destroyed any of the Shards that he has defeated. Given his goal of being the most powerful being in the Cosmere I feel like that would have been his go to rather than shattering them and leaving a small chance of someone else taking them up. Odium can't consume investiture though. Nightblood can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, beantheboy12 said: Odium can't consume investiture though. Nightblood can I’ll nit pick the WoB then. Consume is another way of saying eat. When we eat things they don’t stop existing, they turn into something else. I’ll point again to my heat/cold death comment from earlier as well. If Nightblood was somehow able to eat a Shard, it would likely take billions or trillions of years and so wouldn’t really have much bearing on the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Odium can’t destroy Shards I'm pretty sure he's destroyed three Shards by now (Dominion, Devotion, and Honor) and at least injured another (Ambition) enough for her to die from her wounds later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Quote Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Does Nightblood annihilate Investiture? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Investiture cannot be created or destroyed. It can only change forms. But, anything more than that is a RAFO. What form does Nightblood turn investiture into? Can he access this, could he potentially use this which then turns back to normal investiture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: I'm pretty sure he's destroyed three Shards by now (Dominion, Devotion, and Honor) and at least injured another (Ambition) enough for her to die from her wounds later. Those Shards still exist. Odium killed vessels and scattered their power so that it couldn’t be picked up easily. This was my point. If his goal is to prevent anyone else from taking the power, destroying it would be the most logical thing to do. Since he didn’t do that, it’s safe to assume that he can’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 6 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said: Those Shards still exist. Do they? Quote RayW2 Can Dalinar hypothetically repair Honor's Shard or this is beyond his powers? Brandon Sanderson This would not be within the scope of his powers, traditionally. (Though I should note that what it even means to 'repair Honor's Shard' is subject to debate.) source Quote Um, no. I mean, a-- Splintered is one of the ways that they are not considered whole. Zas678 Like completely Splintered as in Dominion and Devotion. Brandon Sanderson Yeah. That's what-- That's the opposite of whole. Zas678 But having a Splinter, like Endowment... Little Wilson Because I-- I was kind of going with "Shattered" <and> "Splintered". So Shattered would be kind of what I was going with Devotion and Dominion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Ripheus23 said: Do they? Their power does. So yes? Otherwise what's powering the Dor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 @Ripheus23 Yes, the Shards still exist. There's a crucial difference that you're missing between a Shard and its Vessel. When we talk about Odium "killing" Honor (or Dominion, etc.) we mean that he killed the Vessel (i.e. the mind controlling the Shard), not that he eliminated the Shard itself. The Shard still exists and can be taken up by a new Vessel (if they can get around the Splintering issue). Have you read the original Mistborn trilogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yeah to be honest I was told to stay away from this website until I read all the big books. Mistborn era up to Bands including Secrets. War breaker Elantris Stormlight then up to Radiance. Otherwise its massive spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 20 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said: When we talk about Odium "killing" Honor (or Dominion, etc.) we mean that he killed the Vessel (i.e. the mind controlling the Shard), not that he eliminated the Shard itself. The Shard still exists and can be taken up by a new Vessel (if they can get around the Splintering issue). Have you read the original Mistborn trilogy? Well the WoBs say that the Shards defeated by Odium, were broken into pieces. Not only the Vessels died but that which they held was shattered. Those Shards are no longer intact. Maybe Dominion and Devotion are more intact than Honor since Honor was defeated in a different way, but that's a detail that doesn't make enough of a difference to whether the Shards were destroyed. Were they entirely extinguished from the universe? No. But were they separated into so many parts that they no longer substantially count as an individual object? It would appear so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scion of the Mists Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 43 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said: Well the WoBs say that the Shards defeated by Odium, were broken into pieces. Not only the Vessels died but that which they held was shattered. Those Shards are no longer intact. Maybe Dominion and Devotion are more intact than Honor since Honor was defeated in a different way, but that's a detail that doesn't make enough of a difference to whether the Shards were destroyed. Were they entirely extinguished from the universe? No. But were they separated into so many parts that they no longer substantially count as an individual object? It would appear so. Okay, it sounds like we're on the same page on this. I was just responding because you questioned whether or not the Shards still existed (which they do). 23 hours ago, Ripheus23 said: On 1/15/2019 at 7:22 AM, SwordNimiForPresident said: Those Shards still exist. Do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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