Cosmere THUNDERDOME

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Much in the spirit of Hunger Games, temporary alliances are a good possibility. If these combatants have prior knowledge of each other and their abilities then it's pretty obvious that the Scadrial combatants are going to be the most dangerous. Even without that prior knowledge, someone calling himself The Sliver of Infinity seems like a badass. With that being the case, what are the odds that a couple bright bulbs would team up to take on the most obvious threat? And which combo of magic users reasonably breaks Rashek? 

The next most dangerous would be the Heralds with their blades restored to them. They don't have a whole bunch of abilities but what they can do is super impressive. And as a previous poster said, their fuel source is unlimited. And although they may not be able to quite keep up with an F-Steel user the disparity probably isn't quite as vast as some would claim. Plus, durability. Those 10 together ended multiple apocalypses. The key to defeating them is making them fight separately. 

Susy isn't quite as helpless as many seem to think either. Although his fuel source is technically limited, 50000 Breaths is nothing to sneeze at. Plus, his fuel is at least partially reusable. With his Heightening level he gains both instant understanding of his powers, perfect control and silent commands. He could in fact probably craft a couple Nightbloods out of someone's swords while in the arena. For 2000 Breaths out of his stockpile he can make weapons that Gods are wary of. 

Those are the ones you're going to be most wary of. The Vin/Elend combo is great but they're better being an asset to a team taking down more powerful foes than striking out on their own. Their best bet would be to help someone take down someone else and backstab the weakened winner. 

Vasher is in the same boat as the Ventures, except that they are team players and Vasher doesn't play well with others. Even if you pair him with Vivienda they aren't the type of couple that would work well with allies. They're going to have to hide. 

Dalinar is probably the only sub-God level character with a chance of standing toe to toe with bosses without assistance, but he'd have to be careful. He's most likely to allign with someone else to achieve his goals and with access to the Thrill plus his Shards he's nearly unkillabe. He's also likely the best tactician of the group. 

Kenton gets obliterated in seconds. The Selish delegation is useless unless the Dome is built on top of Elantris and even then they're too slow. Their only chance lies in extreme preparation. 

[Housedunn]

5 hours ago, beantheboy12 said:

Susebron awakened that whole sea of cloth at the end of warbreaker. The Lord Ruler May be an overpowered full born, but he can’t break through a swarm of cloth

Honestly, breaking through a swarm of cloth is probably the easiest thing that the lord ruler would do in decades.

[Housedunn]

4 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

If they can access the Dor, Elantrians. Otherwise, Kelsier or any other Fullborn. I'd give Kel an edge over other Fullborn because he's older than any of the others excluding Rashek, and Rashek got owned by a Mistborn. If the Honor Blades are in play then Dalinar MIGHT be able to hang in there. He would need to have Radiant Plate, and he would need to have bonded all 10 blades. Assuming all that is true he could form a perpendicularity and go ham with all of the Surges.

Whoa. Where did ALL TEN HONORBLADES on Daliner come from? He never even used one of them.

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

7 hours ago, Jace21 said:

No he didnt. He was wiping the floor with a mistborn until she drew directly on the power of a shard to do something that would otherwise be impossible. Cut the guy some slack.

As for Elantrians, access to the dor or no, there is no world in which they beat a fullborn or prepared feruchemist in an arena style situation. They're just not fast enough.

The f-steel is the issue. Mistborn, awakeners, surgebinders, elantrians, none of them are fast enough to kill or survive against someone with enough f-steel.

If Elantrians have access to the Dor and Dalinar has honorblades then the Lord Ruler and Mistborn have atium, which gives them a huge advantage.

Atium falls in the same category as F-steel, it breaks games.

Raskek got owned because of his vanity. If he had kept his metalminds inside his body rather than loosely dangling off his arms then Vin would have just thrown him around instead of killing him. Basically he’s an idiot.

An Elantrian could start the fight with a bunch of already written Aons that just need to be activated. We don’t know a ton about the limits of their magic, but given its programmatic nature it’s safe to say that they could do almost anything with the right Aon. Even just drawing on what we know, Aon Edo to block their opponent then Aon Daa to vaporize them. Both could be inscribed on something before hand and be activated immediately. IMO Elantrians with the Dor are one step bellow a Shard.

Someone with Plate, all 10 surge and unlimited Stormlight would be dangerous. They would have gold compounder levels of self healing so killing them without a weapon that attacks on the Spiritual level would be nearly impossible. I think a Fullborn would run out of metal to compound before Dalinar ran out of Sormlight. There’s several ways he could kill one as well. Soulcast them. They could probably resist this with F-Gold or F-Aluminum, but it would deplete their metalminds at some point. If they touch Dalinar (I’m assuming he wouldn’t be able to touch them since they have F-Steel) he could burn them with Division which would hit their goldminds. He could allow them to grapple him and then summon one of his blades in the middle of their head or chest. I’m not sure if gold could fix that or not since it seems to kill instantly. He might also be able to soulcast their metalminds. 

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

7 hours ago, Housedunn said:

Whoa. Where did ALL TEN HONORBLADES on Daliner come from? He never even used one of them.

It’s meant to be hypothetical. Although now that I think about it “Unite them” could have a whole new meaning in my head cannon.

Sry for double post, not sure how to fix it.

Edited January 26, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[Housedunn]

Also keep in mind that all the (main) mistborn that we see in the books are considered the higher pinnacle of the craft. All of them (expect for Zane, tho he is said to be comparable to Kel) either beat, and went toe to toe with an inquisitor and did veery good, which was pretty much deemed impossible for them. I would think that it would be far fetch to think that an random joe snuffy mistborn ( like Shan) would probably be killed by a mediocre Surgebinder on there 3rd Oath, tho with high diff

[goody153]

This one is extremely obvious.

Rashek pretty much kills anybody without shardic intervention(so that means you can't even count Dalinar as we don't know if counts a vessel or whatever was that on Oathbringer climax).

He can pretty much wipe anybody before they could even fight back if he is serious enough as a fullborn wipes the floor with anybody so far as magics are introduced. And Rashek is the literal strongest and best of them all(savantism on almost all, 2 versions of compounding, highest allomantic/feruchemical strength, a millenium of experience in fighting).

In a hypothetically deathmatch this would mean Rashek is serious. That pretty much means everybody is literally dead. Vin basically had to pull the power of the literal shard of preservation to win. That much intervention is needed to win against him (he can hit somebody metals inside their body,, that is how powerful his normal steelpush and that is without duralumin)

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

23 minutes ago, goody153 said:

n a hypothetically deathmatch this would mean Rashek is serious. That pretty much means everybody is literally dead. Vin basically had to pull the power of the literal shard of preservation to win. That much intervention is needed to win against him (he can hit somebody metals inside their body,, that is how powerful his normal steelpush and that is without duralumin)

The Heralds are represented as permanent Shardic Intervention. And they have unlimited Stormlight. I agree that Rashek is gonna be the toughest SOB in the dome but the Heralds with their Honorblades are gonna give him problems especially if they work together.

[+Invocation]

9 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

The Heralds are represented as permanent Shardic Intervention. And they have unlimited Stormlight. I agree that Rashek is gonna be the toughest SOB in the dome but the Heralds with their Honorblades are gonna give him problems especially if they work together.

I'd still say Rashek could give all ten of them a fair fight. Might not come out on top, but he'd make a solid run of it.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Well Rashek is a Fullborn. Dude's powerset is complete. If everything the KR could do were combined into one person then she'd be Rashek's contemporary. There's ways to make a person Fullborn level KR but that's difficult, they might not have time to plan it, and some of those methods have hideous consequences. 

Anyway, Rashek is probably the winner in a free for all, every man for themselves. But none of these people are particularly stupid. Insane in the case of the Heralds, but not stupid. I just think the target on Rashek is a little too big. As powerful as Rashek is I don't think he beats the entire field if they team up against him. Opinions vary of course, but if I were a smart overpowering character I'm focusing all my efforts on getting everyone to smash TLR first thing. That would be the only way anybody else has any type of chance.

[+Invocation]

16 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Well Rashek is a Fullborn. Dude's powerset is complete. If everything the KR could do were combined into one person then she'd be Rashek's contemporary. There's ways to make a person Fullborn level KR but that's difficult, they might not have time to plan it, and some of those methods have hideous consequences. 

Anyway, Rashek is probably the winner in a free for all, every man for themselves. But none of these people are particularly stupid. Insane in the case of the Heralds, but not stupid. I just think the target on Rashek is a little too big. As powerful as Rashek is I don't think he beats the entire field if they team up against him. Opinions vary of course, but if I were a smart overpowering character I'm focusing all my efforts on getting everyone to smash TLR first thing. That would be the only way anybody else has any type of chance.

Focusing all efforts on Rashek would be a good idea, but Rashek was actually more intelligent than people give him credit for, when Ruin wasn't whispering in his ear driving him crazy. I think he'd probably start the battle aged and only using a couple of things to downplay his own strengths, then wait until the last people are left and crush them.

Out of the Heralds, though, I'd say Taln would be the first to die because he'd do what he always did during the Desolations: take a stand and win, but also die. It's just a matter of finding out who he would take that stand against to determine if he'd actually win.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Invocation

[not an Evil Librarian]

Rashek could simply compound speed and kill everyone in the arena before anyone could blink. 

[+Invocation]

4 minutes ago, not an Evil Librarian said:

Rashek could simply compound speed and kill everyone in the arena before anyone could blink. 

True enough, he do that if the arena doesn't have too many walls, because there's no protection from slamming yourself into a wall at Mach 6. I guess he could mitigate that by compounding and tapping zinc, though.

[Jace21 he/him]

8 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Raskek got owned because of his vanity. If he had kept his metalminds inside his body rather than loosely dangling off his arms then Vin would have just thrown him around instead of killing him. Basically he’s an idiot.

"loosely dangling off his arms"? Did we read the same book? Pretty sure they were spiked tight onto his arms precisely so they couldn't be pushed/pulled on.

There was no reason for him to believe it would ever possible to push/pull them that way so having them in his body would have been redundant. What Vin did was unprecedented. Was Rashek arrogant? Sure, but understandably so.

8 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

IMO Elantrians with the Dor are one step bellow a Shard.

Only when in Elantris are they so powerful. Access to the Dor wouldn't be enough, the dome would need Elantris inside of it. Not to mention that that even with inscribed Elantris-strength aons they would be too slow for Rashek and lack the firepower to kill him.

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

True enough, he do that if the arena doesn't have too many walls, because there's no protection from slamming yourself into a wall at Mach 6. I guess he could mitigate that by compounding and tapping zinc, though.

Compounded gold too. Even mach 6 into a wall probably wouldn't give you a long enough window to do anything considering how fast he recovers. Fullborn are OP.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Jace21

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Personally I think Rashek would be particularly vulnerable to Battar, Ash, Chana and Taln. Battar Soulcasts walls and obsticles to slow him. Ash could do the same but also makes Illusions to confuse him. Taln turns the ground to quicksand so he can't use F-Steel as effectively. He isn't going to fly as fast as he can run with steel. And if Chana can get a hand on him she can use Division to dissolve his chull. Really any combo of 3 Heralds with a direct plugin to Honor and complimentary skills could take down Rashek given prior knowledge of his skills. Soulcasting is particularly good against him because everything becomes a variable weapon. Division is only effective at touch but presumably any of the Heralds can take a punch. Rashek goes to punch Chana and his arm dissolves. Not his entire body, he's too Invested. Another important thing. Rashek can't leech a Herald. He can leech everyone else but not a Herald. And his power is finite.

Susubron is the true Dark Horse in this. The OP said Nightblood himself can't enter. But if Susu makes a Nightblood in the Dome and gives it to Rashek it doesn't matter how Invested he is. He will have died from that particular poison pill.

Edited January 26, 2019 by Bigmikey357

[SwordNimiForPresident the sword/that sword]

1 hour ago, Jace21 said:

"loosely dangling off his arms"? Did we read the same book? Pretty sure they were spiked tight onto his arms precisely so they couldn't be pushed/pulled on.

There was no reason for him to believe it would ever possible to push/pull them that way so having them in his body would have been redundant. What Vin did was unprecedented. Was Rashek arrogant? Sure, but understandably so.

They pierced the skin on his arms like an earring, a hard tug would have pulled them out. Arrogant, when applied to someone that was killed because of it, is synonymous with stupid. If he had placed them inside his body like Miles then he would probably still be alive.

 

1 hour ago, Jace21 said:

Only when in Elantris are they so powerful. Access to the Dor wouldn't be enough, the dome would need Elantris inside of it. Not to mention that that even with inscribed Elantris-strength aons they would be too slow for Rashek and lack the firepower to kill him.

By saying that they would need access to the Dor, I was implying that they would be at full strength (as if they were in the city of Elantris). This is the same qualifier that you would apply to any question about an Elantrian's strength since they are basically just people when they're away from the city. They could just have the Aons running before the fight even started. Make an Aon Edo that locks everything around yourself in place and an Aon Daa that vaporizes anything that isn't you within a 100 meter radius. As for lacking the firepower to kill him, he doesn't have an unlimited supply of gold, so at some point he would die (that's assuming F-gold can even resist Aon Daa which vaporized a Dakhor monk).

 

Additionally, you seem to be offended by my opinion of Rashek, so I will stop replying in this thread.

Edited January 26, 2019 by SwordNimiForPresident

[not an Evil Librarian]

48 minutes ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Personally I think Rashek would be particularly vulnerable to Battar, Ash, Chana and Taln. Battar Soulcasts walls and obsticles to slow him. Ash could do the same but also makes Illusions to confuse him. Taln turns the ground to quicksand so he can't use F-Steel as effectively. He isn't going to fly as fast as he can run with steel. And if Chana can get a hand on him she can use Division to dissolve his chull. Really any combo of 3 Heralds with a direct plugin to Honor and complimentary skills could take down Rashek given prior knowledge of his skills. Soulcasting is particularly good against him because everything becomes a variable weapon. Division is only effective at touch but presumably any of the Heralds can take a punch. Rashek goes to punch Chana and his arm dissolves. Not his entire body, he's too Invested. Another important thing. Rashek can't leech a Herald. He can leech everyone else but not a Herald. And his power is finite.

Susubron is the true Dark Horse in this. The OP said Nightblood himself can't enter. But if Susu makes a Nightblood in the Dome and gives it to Rashek it doesn't matter how Invested he is. He will have died from that particular poison pill.

it doesn't matter how powerful everyone else is. it doesn't matter if soulcasters have the ability to harm him or not. either way, everyone in the arena would be dead before they have the opportunity to use these powers. compounded speed, both physical and mental, will allow the Lord Ruler to end the fight before it even truly starts. 

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Personally I think Rashek would be particularly vulnerable to Battar, Ash, Chana and Taln. Battar Soulcasts walls and obsticles to slow him. Ash could do the same but also makes Illusions to confuse him. Taln turns the ground to quicksand so he can't use F-Steel as effectively. He isn't going to fly as fast as he can run with steel. And if Chana can get a hand on him she can use Division to dissolve his chull. Really any combo of 3 Heralds with a direct plugin to Honor and complimentary skills could take down Rashek given prior knowledge of his skills. Soulcasting is particularly good against him because everything becomes a variable weapon. Division is only effective at touch but presumably any of the Heralds can take a punch. Rashek goes to punch Chana and his arm dissolves. Not his entire body, he's too Invested. Another important thing. Rashek can't leech a Herald. He can leech everyone else but not a Herald. And his power is finite.

Susubron is the true Dark Horse in this. The OP said Nightblood himself can't enter. But if Susu makes a Nightblood in the Dome and gives it to Rashek it doesn't matter how Invested he is. He will have died from that particular poison pill.

I have to disagree. Susebron wouldn't have a chance to make another Nightblood with enough of The Lord Ruler's speed/mental speed tapping happening. He's easily identifiable as the biggest threat to Rashek from the perspective of Rashek (big guy, distorting colors around him), so he'd probably max his speed getting over there solely to stop him from doing anything like what you said or anything else involving his powers that are unknown to Rashek at this time.

[asterion137 he/him]

The only people on the battlefield who matter are Marsh, Kelsier, Rashek, and maybe the Heralds. Elantrians are powerful but don't have enhanced speed, though if the steelrunners give them a few seconds to get a barrier set up they might get dangerous fast. Susebron is another glass cannon who is too slow to be a real threat, but unlike the Elantrians he can't raise unbreakable walls at will. Taln probably has the best speed feat in the cosmere outside of steelrunners, and even without stormlight is measurably faster than a normal person with stormlight or A-steel. With the heavy stormlight enhancements that Heralds probably have, he and the other heralds could possibly pose a threat to the fullborn, but we haven't really seen the Heralds use their abilities yet. Marsh and Kelsier probably end up ganging up on Rashek to win after the three of them clear the rest of the field. 

[HSuperLee he/him]

While I do think Rashek tends to be overestimated, in that he doesn't have unlimited of every feruchemical attribute, I will keep saying that fullborn are the Cosmere equivalent of kryptonians. I think if he could kill the Heralds, it would take a while and he'd start getting frustrated and sloppy as he discovers he can't instantly kill them.

Considering the first few hours would be everyone against him, we need to assume that the Scadrians would inform everyone else of the importance of his metalminds, and then the other powerhouses can find a way to deal with them. Either way, Rashek would eventually go down vs. everybody else, but he would take a vast majority with him. 

[+Invocation]

27 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

The only people on the battlefield who matter are Marsh, Kelsier, Rashek, and maybe the Heralds

I'd argue Vasher matters for separaterete reasons than those, but he still does.

Also where's Vin in your whole calculation of who matters? I'd think she's be with Marsh and Kell, with Zane maybe there as well.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

The Heralds can take a punch and have abilities that can negate Rashek's sizable advantages or at the very least mitigate them to some degree. Like I said, F-Steel isn't as effective if flying and he isn't going to be able to maneuver as well as Jez or Nale in thr air. If Taln turns the arena to soup it does not matter how fast you can run. The Heralds are too Invested to be easily swayed by emotional Allomancy.

Rashek is smart. He would know the Heralds are the greatest threat. He could kill Susy at his leisure, as powerful as he is he cannot take a punch and can be leeched. In fact, creating a Nightblood is about the only way he can win. Even that ain't full proof. At the very least Vin, Elend and Raoden could safely wield it (well as safe as holding Nightblood gets). The other Metalborn only matter if Rashek dies. And Rashek is a really tough out. But not invincible. He can be killed. He has been killed before. If he happens to die he's taking a few people with him. 

[goody153]

Compounded speed + compounded metal speed already literally beats everybody on the stadium(when you think a hundred steps ahead of all the enemy and you move in a speed of a storming bullet there's not much anybody can do).

Like that's not even including stuff like bendalloy, atium and stuff. 

Actually mistborn atium already kills most in cosmere.

That's just how overpowered feruchemist/mistborn are tbh

[not an Evil Librarian]

think about the Quicksilver scene in X-Men. now imagine if quicksilver had insane strength, healing factor, and the ability to (sort of) fly. come to think of it, Rashek would not even have to tap speed. anyone around him would simply lose the will to fight. his insane alomantic soothing would prevent anyone from having the motivation to fight. 

[asterion137 he/him]

6 hours ago, Invocation said:

I'd argue Vasher matters for separaterete reasons than those, but he still does.

Also where's Vin in your whole calculation of who matters? I'd think she's be with Marsh and Kell, with Zane maybe there as well.

Marsh is an Inquisitor with access to most of the metals and a lot of the most dangerous compounding. That said, he's a gnat to Kelsier or the Lord Ruler. He might be able to keep up with them in reaction speed, but nicrosil compounding means that he's still a fair bit weaker than either of their boosted A-pewter, and also won't be able to move quite as fast since he won't be as durable. He might be able to get in a lucky shot with duralumin though.

I think it's a fair bet to assume TLR did not have access to nicrosil or chromium, even if he did have knowledge of them. It would be really hard to produce either with pre-industrial technology. But even if he did, he would be at a disadvantage when facing Marsh or Kelsier, who know his weakness and how to exploit it.

Kelsier is a Fullborn, and so is equal to The Lord Ruler in power, though he only has 300ish years of experience to the Lord Ruler's 1000. Despite this disadvantage, Kelsier is possibly even more dangerous than the Lord Ruler is, since, as a Cognitive shadow, he may not need atium metalminds to extend his life, and thus would not have an easily exploitable weakness. In any case, both Wax and Marasi were able to push on metals embedded in peoples' bodies by increasing their level of Investiture with F-nicrosil. Kelsier would be able to do the same to TLR's metalminds, even if he swallowed them. Kelsier has easy access to all sixteen metals and can leech the investiture out of any opponent he faces (though he hardly needs to!). Unlike TLR, his access to nicrosil is confirmed and he will definitely be able to abuse Nicrosil and Chromium (either of which would probably guarantee a win if the Lord Ruler doesn't have access to them)

If the mists are in play, Vin could be as dangerous as the others above, but she still probably does not have the hax to beat Kelsier, who has access to compounding, as well as Allomancy on mist-powered Vin's level, though he would have to expend metals to use it.

Zane would die fairly quickly to most of the power players, including the Heralds and Elantrians.

Vasher is out of his league, no? I doubt he survives the massacre at the beginning, even with his enhancements and skill.

Everyone dies except for Kelsier and maybe Jasnah by escape to the Cognitive Realm

TL;DR: Kelsier wins easily, with Rashek being his only serious opponent. Even then it's not really close, since Kelsier has infinite luck and Allomantic potency to go along with functionally infinite healing, speed, and strength. Plus you can't kill him by pushing on his bracelets.