What you don't want from the next book?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Just now, Winds Alight said:

I guess it's too late now, but a good solution might have been that Stormlight can't heal existing disabilities like Hobber's or Lopen's but can heal any injury someone receives after becoming Radiant.

That would mean that Stormlight would work differently from Regrowth or feruchemical gold.

[Winds Alight she/her]

Just now, Oltux72 said:

That would mean that Stormlight would work differently from Regrowth or feruchemical gold.

I'm honestly not Cosmere-savvy enough to really know about different kinds of Investiture (I learned that term from the forums only a few weeks ago) and what they can and can't do.
Regrowth as a Surge of Truthwatchers and Edgedancers can't heal old injuries - I believe we got confirmation on that from Rysn's interlude if I remember correctly?

[HSuperLee he/him]

Some people aren't going to like this, but I think there shouldn't be an attempt to make every member of Bridge 4 relevant. Yes, Bridge 4 is important, but there are already too many members to keep track of.

Back in Way of Kings, the members I cared to remember were: Rock, Teft, Lopen, and Rlain.

Words of Radiance made Moash significant with him getting shards and then attempting to kill Elhokar.

Oathbringer made Lyn significant as the first Bridge 4 girl.

I know others on this site love other members of Bridge 4, but to me most of them just aren't important enough to spend time focusing on. That said, I trust Sanderson to make good characters, so I'll probably be satisfied with whatever he does.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

Just now, Winds Alight said:

I'm honestly not Cosmere-savvy enough to really know about different kinds of Investiture (I learned that term from the forums only a few weeks ago) and what they can and can't do.
Regrowth as a Surge of Truthwatchers and Edgedancers can't heal old injuries - I believe we got confirmation on that from Rysn's interlude if I remember correctly?

For a certain value of old. It is basically the same psychological limit that preserves Kaladin' s scar. But it does not operate on a certain "save point". An interesting experiment would be to put somebody under hallucinogenics and then try Regrowth.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

23 hours ago, Winds Alight said:

I'm honestly not Cosmere-savvy enough to really know about different kinds of Investiture (I learned that term from the forums only a few weeks ago) and what they can and can't do.
Regrowth as a Surge of Truthwatchers and Edgedancers can't heal old injuries - I believe we got confirmation on that from Rysn's interlude if I remember correctly?

The way it works is that you cant heal something that has become one with your identity. Kaladin for example, sees his scars as part of who he is, which is why they cant be healed. Long-term doesn’t reallt matter. Lopen can regrow his arm for example, even though he has been without it for a long time. 

[agrabes]

On 2/19/2019 at 7:10 AM, HSuperLee said:

Some people aren't going to like this, but I think there shouldn't be an attempt to make every member of Bridge 4 relevant. Yes, Bridge 4 is important, but there are already too many members to keep track of.

Back in Way of Kings, the members I cared to remember were: Rock, Teft, Lopen, and Rlain.

Words of Radiance made Moash significant with him getting shards and then attempting to kill Elhokar.

Oathbringer made Lyn significant as the first Bridge 4 girl.

I know others on this site love other members of Bridge 4, but to me most of them just aren't important enough to spend time focusing on. That said, I trust Sanderson to make good characters, so I'll probably be satisfied with whatever he does.

I'm with you - in fact I'd go even further and say I only care about Rock, Rlain, and Moash (but only as an interesting villain).  The others I care about a little, but not enough that they should have dedicated chapters.  I didn't like the Bridge 4 chapters in OB.  In tWoK and WoR, we saw Bridge 4 through the eyes of the major characters and that was great, because I cared about the major characters and it was cool to see Bridge 4 through the eyes of someone other than Kaladin too to get an idea of what Kaladin doesn't see about his brothers in arms.  In book 4, I don't want to see any "Bridge 4" chapters.  I don't really care about Teft's addiction problems, I only care about how he interacts and affects the main characters and the main plot.  I honestly think he works much better as a background character that we see from time to time in passing and we can tell he's different each time.  That gives depth to the world - even the background characters are the heroes of their own stories.  When you pull him into the main screen, it loses something imo. 

We can see Bridge 4 and even have extended scenes with them, but I'd like to go back to seeing them only through the main characters' eyes.

[Karger he/him]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:12 AM, Oltux72 said:

For a certain value of old. It is basically the same psychological limit that preserves Kaladin' s scar. But it does not operate on a certain "save point". An interesting experiment would be to put somebody under hallucinogenics and then try Regrowth.

An interesting idea but I doubt that would work.  The person has to internalize the hallucination to the point where it becomes part of themselves.  I seriously doubt that anyone truly thinks of themselves as the person that they thought they were while drunk.  A much better strategy would be some kind of pep talk or spiritual healing that makes people relies that their physical impairments are not permanent flaws.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I agree about Bridge 4. I liked their chapters in OB, but I cant help but feel that cutting Skar, Sigzil and others would have allowed for Amaram POV chapters. Considering that his story is a major complaint from a lot of people, sacrificing Bridge 4 for Meridas might have made for a stronger book. Right now, it feels like Brandon made the opposite choice. If there is a similar situation in the future, where Brandon has to choose between fleshing out a villain or minor side characters, I would say go for the villain. 

[Pathfinder]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

An interesting idea but I doubt that would work.  The person has to internalize the hallucination to the point where it becomes part of themselves.  I seriously doubt that anyone truly thinks of themselves as the person that they thought they were while drunk.  A much better strategy would be some kind of pep talk or spiritual healing that makes people relies that their physical impairments are not permanent flaws.

Opens up a whole new practice for therapy. Help convince the person they are not disabled, then use regrowth. 

[Karger he/him]

exactly

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

 

9 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I agree about Bridge 4. I liked their chapters in OB, but I cant help but feel that cutting Skar, Sigzil and others would have allowed for Amaram POV chapters. Considering that his story is a major complaint from a lot of people, sacrificing Bridge 4 for Meridas might have made for a stronger book. Right now, it feels like Brandon made the opposite choice. If there is a similar situation in the future, where Brandon has to choose between fleshing out a villain or minor side characters, I would say go for the villain. 

I disagree but it's a stylistic choice. The entire Bridge 4 crew is like a minor character in their own right and they provide some of the most heartwarming scenes in OB. Plus, for narrative reasons the Bridge 4 sequences gives us a unique perspective, one of semi-normal folks as they try to cope with the end of the world. All of our POV characters are either nobles or converted nobles. Kaladin isn't normal anymore, Lyft is outside authority in Azish and has the King's ear, and Szeth strikes me as an exiled Shin noble too (or are they just letting anyone train with captive Honorblades in Shinovar nowadays). Even Adolin, a secondary character with outsized polarization, is nobility. Brandon felt it important to get in normal perspectives for worldbuilding purposes. Throwing in some Amaram chapters would have been nice and I would have liked to see them, but not at the expense of Bridge 4, especially if that character ain't gonna be around past the end of the book. And it probably lessens the impact of the heel-turn to give him a POV.  Moash is probably gonna be around awhile so it makes sense to flesh him out. He also makes an effective foil for Kaladin, being the anti-Windrunner. 

 

8 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Opens up a whole new practice for therapy. Help convince the person they are not disabled, then use regrowth. 

Holistic therapy, Rosharan style. Strangely, they still need the crystals to gather energy.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

 

I disagree but it's a stylistic choice. The entire Bridge 4 crew is like a minor character in their own right and they provide some of the most heartwarming scenes in OB. Plus, for narrative reasons the Bridge 4 sequences gives us a unique perspective, one of semi-normal folks as they try to cope with the end of the world. All of our POV characters are either nobles or converted nobles. Kaladin isn't normal anymore, Lyft is outside authority in Azish and has the King's ear, and Szeth strikes me as an exiled Shin noble too (or are they just letting anyone train with captive Honorblades in Shinovar nowadays). Even Adolin, a secondary character with outsized polarization, is nobility. Brandon felt it important to get in normal perspectives for worldbuilding purposes. Throwing in some Amaram chapters would have been nice and I would have liked to see them, but not at the expense of Bridge 4, especially if that character ain't gonna be around past the end of the book. And it probably lessens the impact of the heel-turn to give him a POV.  Moash is probably gonna be around awhile so it makes sense to flesh him out. He also makes an effective foil for Kaladin, being the anti-Windrunner. 

In my mind, Amaram POV-chapters would have made his arc clearer and maybe allow readers to feel symphaty for him. That would have made for a stronger ending. Now his final scenes were basically Mario vs Bowser or something of that sort. A cool fight scene, but with less emotional impact than it could have. Giving Amaram POVs in OB would also have made sense because he is the anti-Dalinar. He would have worked brilliantly as a foil. Amaram kinda went down as a boring and plain bad guy for most people, while he could have gone down as an interesting antagonist who helped flesh out the story more. 

[equinox]

31 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

In my mind, Amaram POV-chapters would have made his arc clearer and maybe allow readers to feel symphaty for him. That would have made for a stronger ending. Now his final scenes were basically Mario vs Bowser or something of that sort. A cool fight scene, but with less emotional impact than it could have. Giving Amaram POVs in OB would also have made sense because he is the anti-Dalinar. He would have worked brilliantly as a foil. Amaram kinda went down as a boring and plain bad guy for most people, while he could have gone down as an interesting antagonist who helped flesh out the story more. 

I so much agree with what you say here. Only I very much enjoyed reading Bridge 4's POVs. They provide a different perspective on what's happening, broadening the scope. I wouldn't mind spending a bit less time in Shallan's (or more precisely Veil's) head though. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

33 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

In my mind, Amaram POV-chapters would have made his arc clearer and maybe allow readers to feel symphaty for him. That would have made for a stronger ending. Now his final scenes were basically Mario vs Bowser or something of that sort. A cool fight scene, but with less emotional impact than it could have.

But also a waste. Build him up just to kill him right away.

33 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Giving Amaram POVs in OB would also have made sense because he is the anti-Dalinar. He would have worked brilliantly as a foil. Amaram kinda went down as a boring and plain bad guy for most people, while he could have gone down as an interesting antagonist who helped flesh out the story more. 

That would give away the opportunity to introduce the Sons of Honor in another way. Maybe even a Gavilar flashback.

[equinox]

25 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Maybe even a Gavilar flashback.

Oh. I am looking forward to Gavilar's prologue in book 5. Do we know the next prologue POV? Navani?

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

33 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But also a waste. Build him up just to kill him right away.

It wouldn’t need to be that much build-up. And if strenghtens the books climax, and the arc of its main characters, it wouldn’t really be a waste. A lot of people has said that Amaram was a main flaw with OB. This would fix that, maybe even turn it around. 

 

37 minutes ago, equinox said:

I so much agree with what you say here. Only I very much enjoyed reading Bridge 4's POVs. They provide a different perspective on what's happening, broadening the scope. I wouldn't mind spending a bit less time in Shallan's (or more precisely Veil's) head though. 

I can agree with that, and I also enjoyed the BridgePOVs. The reason I suggest cutting them is that they are minor characters, and all of them dont need POVs, even though they are nice to read. But Shallan/Veil could absolutely use a little less pages as well. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

It wouldn’t need to be that much build-up. And if strenghtens the books climax, and the arc of its main characters, it wouldn’t really be a waste. A lot of people has said that Amaram was a main flaw with OB. This would fix that, maybe even turn it around.

Then it should have started in the first book. The main problem I see is that you cannot really have a full exposure of Meridas Amaram and keep most of the mystery of why King Gavilar was assassinated. The same applies to the Ghostbloods. POV from Mraize or Iyatil would give too many secrets away.

[equinox]

3 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Then it should have started in the first book. The main problem I see is that you cannot really have a full exposure of Meridas Amaram and keep most of the mystery of why King Gavilar was assassinated. The same applies to the Ghostbloods. POV from Mraize or Iyatil would give too many secrets away.

I disagree. We had enough build-up in the first two books to know Amaram is not a good guy. No need for POVs there. A short POV in Oathbringer, however, might have explained his turn better than just the outside perspective. Yes, he somehow lost faith, but what was his personal turning point? I would love to have known that. Being in his head (as we were for very short POVs in Sadeas' head) would not have given away too much. Just think about Jasnah. We had some POVs, but basically know nothing specific from her past.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

13 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Then it should have started in the first book. The main problem I see is that you cannot really have a full exposure of Meridas Amaram and keep most of the mystery of why King Gavilar was assassinated. The same applies to the Ghostbloods. POV from Mraize or Iyatil would give too many secrets away.

Brandon has had main characters with huge secrets and POVs before. Jasnah above is one example. Another one from Mistborn is 

Spoiler

Kelsier

I think it would have worked out great.

[+Bliev she/her]

Concur with a lot here:

1. Don't want a Moash redemption. He made his choice. Luckily I don't think Brandon has an issue with letting people live with the consequences of their choices--we've seen "bad guys" in his stories before. So I hope he keeps it this way. I also think Moash will be the closest analogue to the original "void bringers" of Eila Stele fame. Maybe he'll show us a little of what came before.

2. Don't want a reinvigoration of the "love triangle". Argh. Too much. I don't expect Shadolin to be "sunshine and rainbows" but I want their struggles to be internal to their relationship and not due to some external force. Again, choices have consequences--and I think people live within those consequences.

3. Don't want Maya revived. ...Yet. I think that's better as a Book 5 device.

4. Don't want Navani to bond the Sibling. I thought I did, but I like her as a non-Radiant, I think. I actually want her to be the person through whose eyes we see the transformation of "regular to radiant". I want her to see her husband changing, her step-son and daughter in law, her daughter--all struggling with oaths and journeys that she cannot fathom. I want to see her throwing herself into her work to make people's lives better who are alive and well in the here and now, and not struggling with some existential issue of existence. I like Navani's practicality. 

[Vuko]

Don't want such big emphasis on crew of Bridge 4, everyone in there is glowing/healing(if anyone can heal there is no real danger and cost for difficult choices)/flying and walking on walls, also don't want such big numbers of squires and Radiants of the same order, it's like you spend ten minutes around Radiant and here you go, you're Radiant/squire now, meanwhile there is like one Radiant each from some more interesting orders.

Don't want Dalinar to be put aside in next book, especially in order to give Shallan/Kaladin more pages.

Don't want any love triangle/love drama like in some YA story (not bashing on YA books). Problems between two people are fine for me.

And don't want it to be shorter than Oathbringer

 

[Mason Wheeler]

On 2/16/2019 at 6:50 AM, Winds Alight said:

Completely agree. I hate "break-ups" when everyone is scattered across the winds and does their own thing. That was also the main reason why I didn't like part one in OB too much: because Kaladin was all on his own and the rest of the crew back in Urithiru.

Keep in mind that this is Brandon Sanderson we're talking about.  This may have been completely coincidental and just timing, but remember how The Wheel of Time had been suffering from that for many, many books under Robert Jordan, and then Brandon took over the story and immediately characters started coming together again, talking to each other about things, and actually resolve plot threads that had been dragging and getting nowhere pretty much forever?

Somehow I doubt he'll make that same mistake in his own epic.

[Winds Alight she/her]

4 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

Keep in mind that this is Brandon Sanderson we're talking about.  This may have been completely coincidental and just timing, but remember how The Wheel of Time had been suffering from that for many, many books under Robert Jordan, and then Brandon took over the story and immediately characters started coming together again, talking to each other about things, and actually resolve plot threads that had been dragging and getting nowhere pretty much forever?

Somehow I doubt he'll make that same mistake in his own epic.

I didn't read Wheel of Time, but I hope you're right, I love it when many people are in close proximity to each other

 

[Mason Wheeler]

On 2/14/2019 at 4:02 AM, Toaster Retribution said:

I don’t want to see Jasnah ruling flawlessly. 

I'll second that one.  For all the talk about her positive attributes--her intelligence, her beauty, her charisma, etc--when you look at her actual character, at what she does rather than what other people say about her, what you see is a really horrible human being.  She's cruel to others around her, she plays mind games with people, she's horrible to Kaladin, and her first instinctual response to any problem always seems to involve killing somebody.  (The alley thugs, Kabsal, a Herald, Renarin, the entire Parshman race, etc.)  To be quite honest, she comes across as a psychopath of the charismatic, prosocial variety, the kind that ends up leading cults. (Or Fortune 500 companies.)

This is by no means somebody who is going to make a good monarch, and I'll be very disappointed if she magically metamorphoses into one without really earning it!

Edited February 21, 2019 by Mason Wheeler

[Mason Wheeler]

6 minutes ago, Winds Alight said:

I didn't read Wheel of Time, but I hope you're right, I love it when many people are in close proximity to each other

Well... yeah. It had a big problem with them not being around each other for a long part of the latter half of the series.  They kept getting into problems that they could easily resolve if they would just talk to each other, (which is exactly what happened when Brandon took over!) and with the way they had access to Traveling (aka teleportation magic) it's not like them being separated was a big impediment!

It was a good story, but it grew way out of control.