Mid-Range Game 36: The Northern Wind

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Unless somebody else steps forwards and claim the position of navigator, Lumgol cannot be the eliminator engineer.

I guess I must be stupid because I don't really know why everyone is so sure Lum is the navigator.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I guess I must be stupid because I don't really know why everyone is so sure Lum is the navigator.

Lumgol heavily implied that they are the navigator. They claimed they had a role ability to use on the first cycle and requested a bird on the second cycle, and they didn't vote on the second cycle.

And nobody has stepped forwards to correct us in thinking Lum is the navigator. I'm thinking the navigator is probably a village role considering the early sabotage treatment, and claiming is pretty low-risk given the eliminators aren't really attacking people and the bridge is unlikely to ever get repairs. So, if Lumgol was not the navigator, the real navigator (who is presumably active enough to see us talking about their role over the course of two cycles, since they used their ability while they had it) would speak up.

Thus, Lumgol cannot be the eliminator engineer.

[Amanuensis he/him]

31 minutes ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Ya know, the same reasoning applies at least as much to you as it does to Devotary.

I'm not really sure the same logic can apply, unless both Devotary and I are evil with Alv. Devotary had given no indication of voting for Stick prior to the last minute, while I bounced between the two multiple times. Plus I would also say I was the one advocating Alv's lynch the most. Could I have been bussing for street cred? Maybe. But IMO there would be a lot smarter ways for me to handle the events of yesterday, had I been evil.

Not to mention my playstyle this game most resembles my recent Villager games.

ED1T:

For the record, I believe Devotary is most likely a villager too.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Amanuensis

[StrikerEZ he/him]

47 minutes ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Lumgol heavily implied that they are the navigator. They claimed they had a role ability to use on the first cycle and requested a bird on the second cycle, and they didn't vote on the second cycle.

And nobody has stepped forwards to correct us in thinking Lum is the navigator. I'm thinking the navigator is probably a village role considering the early sabotage treatment, and claiming is pretty low-risk given the eliminators aren't really attacking people and the bridge is unlikely to ever get repairs. So, if Lumgol was not the navigator, the real navigator (who is presumably active enough to see us talking about their role over the course of two cycles, since they used their ability while they had it) would speak up.

Thus, Lumgol cannot be the eliminator engineer.

Okay, I guess that makes sense. I'd rather wait for Alv to address the claims against him right now before I decide to vote on him, but for now Lumgol.

[Alvron he/him]

12 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

I honestly don't believe Alvron's claim of exploring the sky crane, so if anyone is lying about their bird, I'd wager him.

12 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Alvron's claim to have explored the sky crane is odd, as Stick announced C1 that there weren't any secret rules or roles. Alvron obviously knew the naming conventions for non-Aviar, so he could have just claimed to have tried for an Aviar and failed.

Idon't know what to say.  I really did explore the Sky Crane.  I knew there were no secrets as Rand told me so when I asked about the Sky Crane.  At first I wanted to get a Haast's Eagle from the Aviary but since it's extinct it would depend on how the GMs were feeling.  So instead I went for a stroll around the Sky Crane.  I know it's strange and can't be confirmed but those kind of orders are what I do when I'm roleless.

10 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

ED1T:

Mark is cleared in the same way I was for the first two days (hasn't been online since Tuesday), and Ventyl was last online 3 hours after the previous thread was posted, so chances are we can trust him too.

6 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

@StrikerEZ It doesn't really matter right now if the inactives are elims. We have to find the elim engineer this cycle or we lose. Proof that Mark IV isn't the engineer:

  Reveal hidden contents

He physically hasn't been online to send in a sabotage order. Same thing for Ventyl, although technically he could have sent in the order right at the start of the cycle:

  Reveal hidden contents

Times are Pacific, by the way.

Not so.  I got a reply from the GMs about this last night.  Turns out that active elims can place orders for inactive team members.  Similar to how in LG30 Aman let the Unjust place orders for our inactive member to be the one making the kills.

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

• Alvron: I'm almost certain that Devotary used Aman voting on Stick as an excuse to pretend to save Alv from getting lynched. At this point, I don't see any possible scenarios where she's not elim, but she can't be the engineer. And I think she's leading us right where she wants us to go. 

I'm kinda with you on this but I think Aman is evil.  I admit I automaticlly suspect Aman whenever we are playing togwether because I know just how effective he is in manipulating playing into voting the way he wants them to.  What is it now Aman, 3 times you've been an outed elim and still not only survived but lead the village into killing themselves?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

7 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Not so.  I got a reply from the GMs about this last night.  Turns out that active elims can place orders for inactive team members.  Similar to how in LG30 Aman let the Unjust place orders for our inactive member to be the one making the kills.

@Randuir, can you confirm this about inactive elims? If it's true, and there is an inactive elim, then we've basically lost (which might be the case anyway, if there are 4 elims total). We don't have enough cycles to lynch inactive players and those players have given us no information with which to base a lynch on them.

Edit: This also makes me more suspicious of Alvron

Edited July 19, 2019 by Araris Valerian

[Young Bard he/him]

2 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

@Randuir, can you confirm this about inactive elims? If it's true, and there is an inactive elim, then we've basically lost (which might be the case anyway, if there are 4 elims total)

If there is an Elim that has gone completely inactive with a role, we would allow another Elim to submit those role actions on their behalf.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Idon't know what to say.  I really did explore the Sky Crane.  I knew there were no secrets as Rand told me so when I asked about the Sky Crane.  At first I wanted to get a Haast's Eagle from the Aviary but since it's extinct it would depend on how the GMs were feeling.  So instead I went for a stroll around the Sky Crane.  I know it's strange and can't be confirmed but those kind of orders are what I do when I'm roleless.

Not so.  I got a reply from the GMs about this last night.  Turns out that active elims can place orders for inactive team members.  Similar to how in LG30 Aman let the Unjust place orders for our inactive member to be the one making the kills.

I'm kinda with you on this but I think Aman is evil.  I admit I automaticlly suspect Aman whenever we are playing togwether because I know just how effective he is in manipulating playing into voting the way he wants them to.  What is it now Aman, 3 times you've been an outed elim and still not only survived but lead the village into killing themselves?

If the active elims can put in orders for inactives, I'm honestly going to be pretty upset. That's a huge thing not to be included in the rules, and from my experiences GMing LG30, was a really bad call. It balances things way too far in the eliminators favor when there's no way villagers can utilize inactive villager roles. Especially in a game like this with sabotaging parts (and a lack of repairs), it gives the eliminators way too strong of advantage that I might as well stop spending time even trying to find them.

Not sure on the specifics, but it's a reoccurring thing, yes. Not even remotely the case here, though.

[Alvron he/him]

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

If the active elims can put in orders for inactives, I'm honestly going to be pretty upset. That's a huge thing not to be included in the rules, and from my experiences GMing LG30, was a really bad call. It balances things way too far in the eliminators favor when there's no way villagers can utilize inactive villager roles. Especially in a game like this with sabotaging parts (and a lack of repairs), it gives the eliminators way too strong of advantage that I might as well stop spending time even trying to find them.

I didn't think it would apply either but with the way everyone has been talking about players being cleared simply because they weren't online made me remember the games where that wasn't the case.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Considering there's no evidence of a Trapper, it's impossible for the village to win, then. I'm surprised the game hasn't ended.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

9 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

 

@Burnt Spaghetti you've been viewing the thread for a while now. Thoughts?

Sorry i didnt actually see this at the time >> 

my thoughts are that we are screwed.

Especially now that the inactives could be the engineers being puppetted by another.

I honestly think that at this point the elims could reveal alignment in thread and we'd still probably end up losing. Even if we take out the engineer, we lost ours so we wont be repairing while they still have the elim sabotage.

Though the very fact that that ruling has been made implies that the engineer is indeed one of the inactives imo

[Amanuensis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Spaghetti said:

Sorry i didnt actually see this at the time >> 

my thoughts are that we are screwed.

Especially now that the inactives could be the engineers being puppetted by another.

I honestly think that at this point the elims could reveal alignment in thread and we'd still probably end up losing. Even if we take out the engineer, we lost ours so we wont be repairing while they still have the elim sabotage.

Though the very fact that that ruling has been made implies that the engineer is indeed one of the inactives imo

You said you had a role at one point, Burnt. You're not a Trapper, are you?

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

So, unless I'm mistaken, our potential elim engineer is one of Xino, Ventyl, Shane, Alvron, or Lumgol. I'm gonna go through the thread right now and see how I feel about each of them. 

• Alvron: I'm almost certain that Devotary used Aman voting on Stick as an excuse to pretend to save Alv from getting lynched. At this point, I don't see any possible scenarios where she's not elim, but she can't be the engineer. And I think she's leading us right where she wants us to go. 
• Lumgol: Their second post was her telling us last cycle that she requested an Aviar and got an elephant bird since the Aviary was sabotaged. There's no way to back up her claim, unless she was the one who posted the anonymous message for that day (which wasn't the case). I don't know why Aman seems to think she's so hard cleared. She easily could've come up with the fake bird claim to hide the fact that she actually sabotaged the Aviary (or the Lab).

I'm not sure where you're getting the assumptions for this. As a villager, my reasoning for voting on Stick can be taken at face value. If I was evil, I would vote for Stick to save Alvron regardless of his role and alignment. Either I prolong the life of my engineer to get one more sabotage in, or I frame someone to ensure the real engineer doesn't get lynched today. Believing I'm evil is one thing, but eliminating the scenario where I sacrifice my reputation to save a teammate seems odd.

1 hour ago, MrakeDarshall said:

Lumgol heavily implied that they are the navigator. They claimed they had a role ability to use on the first cycle and requested a bird on the second cycle, and they didn't vote on the second cycle.

And nobody has stepped forwards to correct us in thinking Lum is the navigator. I'm thinking the navigator is probably a village role considering the early sabotage treatment, and claiming is pretty low-risk given the eliminators aren't really attacking people and the bridge is unlikely to ever get repairs. So, if Lumgol was not the navigator, the real navigator (who is presumably active enough to see us talking about their role over the course of two cycles, since they used their ability while they had it) would speak up.

Thus, Lumgol cannot be the eliminator engineer.

Shane, Xino, Ventyl, and Alvron have had opportunities to claim navigator, true. And if one of them was a village navigator, they really should have claimed by now. The most likely possibility other than Lum is Mark, who was active enough C1 to have submitted an action and has since disappeared. 

24 minutes ago, Alvron said:

Idon't know what to say.  I really did explore the Sky Crane.  I knew there were no secrets as Rand told me so when I asked about the Sky Crane.  At first I wanted to get a Haast's Eagle from the Aviary but since it's extinct it would depend on how the GMs were feeling.  So instead I went for a stroll around the Sky Crane.  I know it's strange and can't be confirmed but those kind of orders are what I do when I'm roleless.

Not so.  I got a reply from the GMs about this last night.  Turns out that active elims can place orders for inactive team members.  Similar to how in LG30 Aman let the Unjust place orders for our inactive member to be the one making the kills.

Lum's elephant bird is also extinct, so you may have had a fair shot at getting a Haast's Eagle.

I kind of doubt the GMs would have allowed the elims to submit actions on behalf of an inactive engineer this whole game without informing anyone this was a possibility. 

5 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Considering there's no evidence of a Trapper, it's impossible for the village to win, then. I'm surprised the game hasn't ended.

Lynches go before sabotages, so it's still possible to win if there are three elims, or if we have a trapper or an engineer still alive. Since the game hasn't ended, presumably at least one of those three conditions are true.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

@Burnt Spaghetti We could have a chance at winning if we knew the exact elim team composition. We would just have to force a tie between each of them. Then there would be no way for them to ensure that the people sending in the sabotage orders didn't get lynched. We would have a 2/(# of elims) chance of roleblocking a sabotage action.

[Amanuensis he/him]

7 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Lynches go before sabotages, so it's still possible to win if there are three elims, or if we have a trapper or an engineer still alive. Since the game hasn't ended, presumably at least one of those three conditions are true.

It honestly really isn't. If we don't lynch/hospitalize the Engineer today, the only way we can win is if we lynch/hospitalize at least one elim today, then the rest of them tomorrow. The chances of us getting perfect lynches/vigkills from here on out is completely out of the question when we also consider the fact the elims could be inactives, too.

ED1T:

Not to mention the fact we have no apparent vig.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Amanuensis

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Eh, I give it a decent chance that Alvron is the eliminator engineer, maybe 40% chance. If that lynch works out than I'd say we have a fighting chance.

If it doesn't, then it probably would be reasonable to call the game. But I'm up for giving it one last shot.

[Amanuensis he/him]

1. Mark IV
2. Xinoehp512
3. Ventyl
4. shanerockes
5. Alvron

With the puppeteer clarification, there's no legitimate way to determine which of these 5 players is the elim!Engineer. Literally anyone could have puppeted those first four, and there's no evidence suggesting Alv is evil other than there being no evidence suggesting he's good. If that's all the reasoning we have to lynch someone on the 4th cycle, I highly doubt the 5th cycle will be any better.

It's moments like this I wish we had turns end when votes reached majority so we could just get over this madness.

This might as well be my last post of the cycle. There's nothing more I can do.

Guess I'll see ya'll in 48 hours.

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

31 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

You said you had a role at one point, Burnt. You're not a Trapper, are you?

Unfortunately no- id have been attacking every cycle if i was heh. I tend to go full vig when i have that kinda role. Was a biologist ( i dont even care about people knowing at this point).  Only got a vote interaction back from when i used my action though im afraid.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Um, @Burnt Spaghetti, when did you use your role?

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Just now, Araris Valerian said:

Um, @Burnt Spaghetti, when did you use your role?

 

So c1 i asked for bird

C2 i took a look at xeno, was curious if they were doing actions c1 while inactive

C3 i posted an anonymous message

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

50 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

1. Mark IV
2. Xinoehp512
3. Ventyl
4. shanerockes
5. Alvron

With the puppeteer clarification, there's no legitimate way to determine which of these 5 players is the elim!Engineer. Literally anyone could have puppeted those first four, and there's no evidence suggesting Alv is evil other than there being no evidence suggesting he's good. If that's all the reasoning we have to lynch someone on the 4th cycle, I highly doubt the 5th cycle will be any better.

Point.

Those other four are looking much more likely, I suppose, and there is very little to decide between them. Which is frustrating.

Still. I don’t fold easily. Even if I’ve probably lost. So...

Don’t think it’s shane. The random vote on burnt last cycle doesn’t really fit.

Gonna guess it isn’t Mark from the limited posting they did.

Either Ventyl or Xino. Too bad I didn’t let xino lead the lynch for longer than 60 seconds on the first cycle or this would be much easier. Still, we have xino’s posts today, even if they are barely useful.

Hm.

Ventyl.

@Alvron I’d appreciate if you entreated your gods for this one.

 

EDIT: Wait a second. There’s more.

Lopen said they shared twins with Ventyl.

We know the saboteur would have gotten an Aviar.

The odds of one of the inactives randomly receiving an Aviar from sabotage is pretty low, especially considering what fraction of Aviar in circulation are the result of a request action.

That considerably increases the probability that Ventyl is the culprit. This is it.

Edited July 20, 2019 by MrakeDarshall

[Burnt Spaghetti she/her]

Thats a very good point about the aviar drake

ventyl

[shanerockes]

14 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

@xinoehp512, @Mark IV, @shanerockes, @Ventyl, @StrikerEZ, @Araris Valerian: if one of you is the Trapper or a Village Engineer, I think it's time to claim

So I am pure vanilla. I have no special role and I havent done any actions because i wouldnt know what to post in the mess and dont know other actions to submit.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Unfortunately this doesn't account for the possibility of Alv, Lum or Striker lying about the bird they received, but I guess it's the best lead we have.

Alvron. Ventyl.

Since there were a total of 2 sabotage actions last night, that means another player on my previous list (plus the three I listed just now) is also evil. We might as well use this time to figure out who it would be.

@Mark IV @Lumgol can we get a role claim from you two.

Mark could have placed a sabotage order on D1 and then left a remaining teammate to act in his absence, but if that's the case, I have no clue how we can prove it.

I suppose it's still most likely that Alv is the puppeteer, even though he was the one who volunteered the information.

@Randuir / @Young Bard: if Alv were to put an order in to sabotage and an order for engineer!Ventyl to sabotage, only for us to lynch him, would both sabotage orders be interrupted, or just his?

[Young Bard he/him]

7 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

@Randuir / @Young Bard: if Alv were to put an order in to sabotage and an order for engineer!Ventyl to sabotage, only for us to lynch him, would both sabotage orders be interrupted, or just his?

Both.