Aluminum Spiking - With Guns!

[Mushroom Catalog he/him]

So, Aluminum spikes remove all powers if you shoot somebody in the right spot.

For somebody like Miles or other overpowered compounders, this could be a huge help.

Of course finding the right spot is difficult. But if, and probably when, fast shooting guns are invented, this could solve that. Get 5 guys with big 'ole guns and pump a gold compounder full of aluminum bullets. There's a decent chance one of them will hit the right spot, at which point, they will die from the many bullets flying their way.

And maybe eventually, doing this enough will reveal the right spot, and sharpshooters might be able to take out compounders as well.

As for the bullets themselves, a good plan could be to put a tiny pure aluminum sliver down the center to actually do the spiking, and a harder aluminum shell that they use in Era 2 to protect the bullet and actually make it to the person. They would also be undetectable allomantically for use against lurchers and coinshots.

This could also apply to getting other powers with other bullets, although this is very limited as the bullet with the power will be really hard to find. And entry points would be difficult.

[Weltall]

You're thinking along the right lines. Brandon has confirmed that weaponizing hemalurgy with spike darts and spike guns are both things that are being done in the Cosmere.

Like you've noted, the real challenge is making sure that the spike hits the right spot. As long as you're not concerned with stealing a power and just want to deprive somebody of theirs, aiming for the heart would be a pretty safe bet since there are so many bindpoints there that you're likely to hit a valid one. The idea of wrapping your spike in a jacket that improves its ability to get to the target is a good one, though it would have to be designed to shed the jacket in a way that doesn't mess up the placement of the important spikey bit. Of course, the main value of these bullets would be against people with F-Gold since a 'normal' aluminum bullet already makes a pretty good weapon against a Coinshot/Lurcher as they can't detect it or affect it midflight... and Ranette's got her specialized Hazekiller ammunition for them as well.

Now, if you are concerned with stealing a power things get complicated, since you actually do need to be more precise if you don't want to steal the wrong thing (especially if you're targeting a Twinborn or hypothetically a mistborn since they have more powers to steal) and you have the whole hemalurgic decay thing to deal with.

[Mushroom Catalog he/him]

1 minute ago, Weltall said:

Brandon has confirmed that weaponizing hemalurgy with spike darts and spike guns are both things that are being done in the Cosmere.

And knives  

1 minute ago, Weltall said:

though it would have to be designed to shed the jacket in a way that doesn't mess up the placement of the important spikey bit.

I was thinking that if the center of the spike was poking out the tip it would work. Like if you have a hollow point sort of thing, but instead of a hole it's an aluminum spike. 

[Chiberty]

2 hours ago, Mushroom Catalog said:

I was thinking that if the center of the spike was poking out the tip it would work. Like if you have a hollow point sort of thing, but instead of a hole it's an aluminum spike. 

You'd probably want the front of the spike, not the back, to have some sort of reinforcement casing because otherwise, the tip would just get crushed if the target is wearing something that resists bullet penetration.

[Calderis he/him]

Not that every other metal on the Hemalurgy chart says "steals" and aluminum says "removes." 

That distinction, and aluminum being aluminum, I don't think that it's capable of holding a charge to actually steal anything.

So great for weaponization... Not so great for gain. 

[+robardin he/him]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:54 PM, Calderis said:

Not that every other metal on the Hemalurgy chart says "steals" and aluminum says "removes." 

That distinction, and aluminum being aluminum, I don't think that it's capable of holding a charge to actually steal anything.

So great for weaponization... Not so great for gain. 

The big difference between getting stabbed or pierced by a flying piece of metal and that act having a hemalurgic effect is the Intent, right? Someone must be planning for that metal to become a spike, even if they're not the direct agent of the spiking (going by how Ruin was able to spike Spook for pewter by manipulating people to stab in the right place at the right time - though he was the Shard powering hemalurgy, and perhaps for a mortal they would have to be the direct agent?).

So weaponizing hemalurgy into a gun would only really work when wielded by an educated hemalurgist.

Still, does that imply someone from the Set who constructed a Tommy gun loaded with aluminum bullets could take down Miles? Susebron? The Lord Ruler, if caught by surprise? Hoid?

What about shrapnel weapons, like a hand grenade or a land mine?

Edited October 23, 2019 by robardin

[Koloss17 She/They]

That’s some pretty smart thinking there! If snipers start existing, then you can have a whole new hazekiller style. You can get your normal hazekiller team, but with the objective to get the dangerous Allomancer in a position where the sniper can shoot them in just the right spot and BOOM now you’re the dangerous Allomancer!

[Weltall]

On 10/23/2019 at 6:08 AM, robardin said:

Still, does that imply someone from the Set who constructed a Tommy gun loaded with aluminum bullets could take down Miles? Susebron? The Lord Ruler, if caught by surprise? Hoid?

What about shrapnel weapons, like a hand grenade or a land mine?

Yeah, you could totally kill a Bloodmaker (compounders included) with hemalurgy if you spike out their ability to use F-Gold. Susebron you wouldn't even need to bother with unless you wanted to spike out his Divine Breath (theoretically possible) because his powers don't include self-healing so an ordinary bullet or two would be all you need. The Lord Ruler would be trickier both because of how many powers he's got that could protect him (though aluminum neuters some of those) but yes, doable. Hoid... probably not. We're told he could heal from a spiking and his spiritweb probably looks like a four-dimensional spiderweb made by an extremely drunk spider so good luck with that.

Now, on the issue of shrapnel weapons and also automatic spike guns, an issue that I don't think we have an answer to is what level of intent is required. With a gun, do you need to have the intent applied to every single bullet you shoot? How specific does it have to be? For grenades, same thing except that the way the shrapnel forms means that you won't know in advance how many bits of sharp metal you're going to have flying around. Can you provide the necessary Intent for something like that? Land mines would be even more problemantic unless they're manually detonated because the impetus for the explosion that creates the potential spike-shrapnel isn't a matter of conscious intent.

1 hour ago, Koloss17 said:

That’s some pretty smart thinking there! If snipers start existing, then you can have a whole new hazekiller style. You can get your normal hazekiller team, but with the objective to get the dangerous Allomancer in a position where the sniper can shoot them in just the right spot and BOOM now you’re the dangerous Allomancer!

It's a little trickier than that, because a spike loses power really quickly so even if the spike doesn't get deformed and you retrieve it quickly and transfer it into a recipient, you'll still be looking at a fairly hefty loss of power. The alternative of lining up a shot just right so the spike hits the donor in just the right place and passes through them to hit the recipient in just the right place has so many variables that it's going to be ridiculously difficult to pull off... but no doubt if Brandon ever does set up such an event it will be equally ridiculously awesome.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

22 hours ago, Weltall said:

The alternative of lining up a shot just right so the spike hits the donor in just the right place and passes through them to hit the recipient in just the right place has so many variables that it's going to be ridiculously difficult to pull off... but no doubt if Brandon ever does set up such an event it will be equally ridiculously awesome.

I bet that with enough time and ability to position themselves, we could see an F-Zinc ferring get this done at least once, with experience.

[Weltall]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

I bet that with enough time and ability to position themselves, we could see an F-Zinc ferring get this done at least once, with experience.

Definitely something that could be done, I'm not gonna deny that. If we're gonna talk about how to make it more likely that someone pulls it off, in addition to the shooter having F-Zinc, having a Slider supporting them would be helpful. Or a couple Sliders more likely since you'd increase the odds of getting it right if the intended recipient can also take advantage of slowed-down time to verify they're standing in the right place and adjust if necessary, instead of relying entirely on the idea of lining up the shot perfectly. A recipient with Slider support and access to A-Electrum would be even better. Still got a lot of variables of course, but those would all make the stunt easier to pull off.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

4 hours ago, Weltall said:

Definitely something that could be done, I'm not gonna deny that. If we're gonna talk about how to make it more likely that someone pulls it off, in addition to the shooter having F-Zinc, having a Slider supporting them would be helpful. Or a couple Sliders more likely since you'd increase the odds of getting it right if the intended recipient can also take advantage of slowed-down time to verify they're standing in the right place and adjust if necessary, instead of relying entirely on the idea of lining up the shot perfectly. A recipient with Slider support and access to A-Electrum would be even better. Still got a lot of variables of course, but those would all make the stunt easier to pull off.

OR just have the one dude with all of these powers via Medallions. Who knows.