Ascending

[Koloss17 She/They]

I know you can become ruin with enough atium, preservation with enough lerasium, and I believe becoming both with harmonium.

this is because you are getting more and more pieces of the shard you eventually have more of the shard in you than the shard has in it, right? 

So with that reasoning, I heard somewhere on here that a Shardblade is the physical manifestation of honor and preservation, kind of like atium or lerasium. So with that, if you have enough Shardblades, you ascend.

i don’t know about the other shards though. Maybe for endowment enough breath? 

how can you ascend to shardhood for each shard? And are there ways other than through having a lot of godly things?

[NameIess]

To become a shard through this method, you would first have to convince a shard to delegate more than 50% of it's investiture, and then let you have it. Even if you bond every spren, collect every breath, and eat all the Atium/Lerasium/Harmonium on the planet, you will still not be anywhere near as strong as the shard itself, unless it specifically attempted to hand over it's power in this way.

[Karger he/him]

29 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

how can you ascend to shardhood for each shard? And are there ways other than through having a lot of godly things?

You can do what Saze did and just grab it if the previous vessels happen to die. 

[Aon Tia she/her]

3 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I know you can become ruin with enough atium, preservation with enough lerasium, and I believe becoming both with harmonium.

this is because you are getting more and more pieces of the shard you eventually have more of the shard in you than the shard has in it, right? 

I am sorry but I don’t think it works that way at all. Shard of preservation is much more than what Lerasium beads are. Shards are essentially infinite in power and mainly reside in spiritual realm. Lerasium beads/ atium is more like 5 % of what that shard is which has manifested in metal form in physical realm. No matter how much you collect it, you are nowhere near shard level. 

[Honorless he/him]

It's possible to Ascend via this means

Quote

Douglas

What about a lerasium savant? Or would that require so much lerasium that the person attempting it would ascend to become a new Shardholder?

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, this is what Ascension is.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 27, 2012)

But not very feasible as others noted. Besides Preservation's situation was rather unique.

[Aon Tia she/her]

8 minutes ago, Honorless said:

It's possible to Ascend via this means

But not very feasible as others noted. Besides Preservation's situation was rather unique.

Ok may be a shard already lying without a vessel. But I don’t think you can replace an active vessel via this method. 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

5 hours ago, The traveller said:

Ok may be a shard already lying without a vessel. But I don’t think you can replace an active vessel via this method. 

Burning Lerasium causes you to become more strongly connected to Preservation. Do that when Preservation has no vessel and you can ascend. 

That’s essentially what Kell did; he just had another means of creating that connection.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 hours ago, Debarra said:

Now take this however you guys want but this WoB seems relevant:

Now I could see it being inturpted as either saying that would not provide enough investure or that investure is not the way to go to pick up a shard.

No, it’s about Connection. You need to be Connected - and that’s what Lerasium does. Now, if you are more strongly Connected to a Shard than its Vessel then, provided you knew what you were doing, you might be able to wrest it away from its current holder.

The question to ask, obviously, is if Vin knew what she was doing, could she have taken Preservation from Kelsier against his will?

[Quantus he/him]

15 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I know you can become ruin with enough atium, preservation with enough lerasium, and I believe becoming both with harmonium.

this is because you are getting more and more pieces of the shard you eventually have more of the shard in you than the shard has in it, right? 

So, the theoretical base is sound but your test-case is flawed.  In general, if you can absorb enough Investiture (of any kind) you can "Ascend" which is a lesser state on the road to becoming a full Shard's Vessel.  But those are not the same things: Rashek Ascended while both Leras and Ruin were still alive, so he didnt take over the shard but he did absorbed enough Investiture via the Well to "stretch his balloon".  This worked because of how unusually Invested those two shards are in the world they created from scratch, where there existed by necessity a huge chunk of their Investiture tied up in the Physical Realm where a mortal could lay hands on it. It's also how Elend manged to ascend by flairing tons of Atium, without actually challenging Ati for control of the whole Shard. You might be able to accomplish something similar if you somehow ate the Stormfather directly, or maybe accumulated literally every single Breath on Nalthis for a few generations, but I cant really say where the tipping point would be. 

 

15 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

So with that reasoning, I heard somewhere on here that a Shardblade is the physical manifestation of honor and preservation, kind of like atium or lerasium. So with that, if you have enough Shardblades, you ascend.

If you manage to claim enough Investiture you should be able to Ascend, so technically yes.  But Roshar has a boatload more ambient Investiture than Scadrial, and even if you gathered every shardblade in existence you likely wouldnt get to a majority of the power, but you could likely get enough to personally Ascend and become a Sliver.

15 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

i don’t know about the other shards though. Maybe for endowment enough breath? 

Technically yes again, but in Nalthis' case youre basically just talking about trying to reach the...I'll call it the 20th Heightening.  And it still wouldnt actually challenge Endowment's control of the entire 1/16th of Infinity, unless Endowment's nature  imposes additional restrictions.  

15 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

how can you ascend to shardhood for each shard? And are there ways other than through having a lot of godly things?

Nope, it's really just about finding a way to absorb (not just channel, which makes savants) a boatload of Investiture.  This has mostly been done by finding a stash of Investiture that exists in the Physical Realm, but a strong enough Connection to a Shard might also let you get your proverbial hands on enough of the Investiture, for example.  You can also apparently create objects to help claim that kind of power, based on the Ire's plan in Mistborn Secret History, though that was really just a means of creating said Connection.   

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

I feel like the question here is how do you cheat becoming a shard. To become a true vessel like Kelsier, Vin, or Sazed you need to have Connection (artificial or natural) if you want to become a psuedo shard like the LR this overcharge of investure would probaly work.

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, Debarra said:

Source? I can't find anything saying Lerasium leafs to connection. The only yhting I can find is Brandon saying it rewrites spiritual DNA Here and Here

There may not be a single clean WOB that uses both terms, this is the part he mentioned about needing a base understanding of Realmic mechanics.  just about everything in the spiritual realm are just types of Connection, in the same way that Physical DNA is just a bunch of chemical/molecular Connections ("Bonds").  The Nahel Bond is a Connection, as are things like your Age (per this WOB). Mistborn and Mistings are confirmed to function via a spiritual Connection to Preservation (specifically, not Ruin), and this is a big part of how the "Compounding Hack" is described as working.  

 

What is still Theory is what Lerasium's "true" function is, since we've been told that creating Mistborn/Mistings is actually a side effect and/or misuse of the metal.  The prevailing theory (that is all but confirmed with the WOB below) is that Lerasium will create a permanent Connection to the shard of whatever God-metal it is alloyed with, and the side effect is that it defaults that Connection to Preservation when there is no other Shard's godmetal provided as a target.  

 

Quote

 

Stormlightning

If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018)

 

 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

7 hours ago, Quantus said:

There may not be a single clean WOB that uses both terms, this is the part he mentioned about needing a base understanding of Realmic mechanics.  just about everything in the spiritual realm are just types of Connection, in the same way that Physical DNA is just a bunch of chemical/molecular Connections ("Bonds").  The Nahel Bond is a Connection, as are things like your Age (per this WOB). Mistborn and Mistings are confirmed to function via a spiritual Connection to Preservation (specifically, not Ruin), and this is a big part of how the "Compounding Hack" is described as working.  

 

What is still Theory is what Lerasium's "true" function is, since we've been told that creating Mistborn/Mistings is actually a side effect and/or misuse of the metal.  The prevailing theory (that is all but confirmed with the WOB below) is that Lerasium will create a permanent Connection to the shard of whatever God-metal it is alloyed with, and the side effect is that it defaults that Connection to Preservation when there is no other Shard's godmetal provided as a target.  

 

 

Thank you for saying it better than I ever could!

[Koloss17 She/They]

21 hours ago, Quantus said:

So, the theoretical base is sound but your test-case is flawed.  In general, if you can absorb enough Investiture (of any kind) you can "Ascend" which is a lesser state on the road to becoming a full Shard's Vessel.  But those are not the same things: Rashek Ascended while both Leras and Ruin were still alive, so he didnt take over the shard but he did absorbed enough Investiture via the Well to "stretch his balloon".  This worked because of how unusually Invested those two shards are in the world they created from scratch, where there existed by necessity a huge chunk of their Investiture tied up in the Physical Realm where a mortal could lay hands on it. It's also how Elend manged to ascend by flairing tons of Atium, without actually challenging Ati for control of the whole Shard. You might be able to accomplish something similar if you somehow ate the Stormfather directly, or maybe accumulated literally every single Breath on Nalthis for a few generations, but I cant really say where the tipping point would be. 

 

If you manage to claim enough Investiture you should be able to Ascend, so technically yes.  But Roshar has a boatload more ambient Investiture than Scadrial, and even if you gathered every shardblade in existence you likely wouldnt get to a majority of the power, but you could likely get enough to personally Ascend and become a Sliver.

Technically yes again, but in Nalthis' case youre basically just talking about trying to reach the...I'll call it the 20th Heightening.  And it still wouldnt actually challenge Endowment's control of the entire 1/16th of Infinity, unless Endowment's nature  imposes additional restrictions.  

Nope, it's really just about finding a way to absorb (not just channel, which makes savants) a boatload of Investiture.  This has mostly been done by finding a stash of Investiture that exists in the Physical Realm, but a strong enough Connection to a Shard might also let you get your proverbial hands on enough of the Investiture, for example.  You can also apparently create objects to help claim that kind of power, based on the Ire's plan in Mistborn Secret History, though that was really just a means of creating said Connection.   

This is very helpful. Thanks!