Quick Fix 44: Shadows in the Forest

[Megasif he/him]

58 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Don’t be sorry for your vote! I understand why you’re voting on me. I voted on Fura at not the best time. And I’ve kind of accepted that stuff like this happens. I take it as a badge of honor.

So, I’m not too worried about dying. Normally I think I’d vote on Mist at this point, but I’m feeling reckless right now. I’m going to vote on TGK. I’m not super suspicious of him, but his tone has been giving me weird vibes. And I don’t particularly suspect any of the other people with just one vote on them.

If you're feeling reckless, lets try this. While I won't mind TGK at some point, I feel them sticking to their opinion on the shade stuff is a good luck for this cycle at least.

Archivist

Edit: Whens cycle end btw, I'm a little tied up but will try to come on to consolidate on a wagon.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Megasif

[The_God_King]

1 hour ago, StrikerEZ said:

So, I’m not too worried about dying. Normally I think I’d vote on Mist at this point, but I’m feeling reckless right now. I’m going to vote on TGK. I’m not super suspicious of him, but his tone has been giving me weird vibes. And I don’t particularly suspect any of the other people with just one vote on them.

Hm, not much I can defend there. My tone is always a little off. A little accusatory and very defensive even when I don’t mean to be. I was cringing as I reread a couple older games. That’s not a defense but it does force my hand. To avoid getting picked off by a last second vote I’m going to have to break this tie. I want to vote for mist, but she’s still a bit new so I’d like to see them get to C3. This is terrible because this is exactly how I survived for a portion of my first game as an elim. By process of elimination, Striker .this isn’t meant to retaliatory I just don’t like being on the block with just under 2 hours to go and you happened to be on the block with me. I’m willing to change it, if I’m not in immediate danger. This is openly a self preservation vote (from what I’ve gathered is a elim thing but I’ve realized doing anything or nothing can be an elim thing)

Edited May 11, 2020 by The_God_King

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

Finally caught up. Eesh...I feel like I should have more of a hunch this time but I'm lost. People doing good at hiding or distancing. I just woke up not too long ago and caught up on the thread. Dang @DrakeMarshall nice to see another long poster in a QF lol (your post sounded very villager to me)

I might need to go back through but not sure if I have time. To ensure a lynch I'll also vote Striker for now. (Will color when I switch to desktop) while I do find the stuff he's saying easily said by elim!striker I also feel like like he'd say it as village!striker. I would say voting Fura could've been to save Rae because from what I recall of being on a team with Striker before and seeing him as an elim he is the type to try and save an elim teammate and sometime at the cost of looking too obvious. (Sorry not trying to be insulting, just saying you go the extra mile to save teammates)

But I also could see it just being him in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think we just got supremely lucky with Rae. Anyways, too groggy to review and post large amounts before the end of this cycle. Will be back with more later cuz I'm off work today.

Edited May 11, 2020 by BrightnessRadiant
colored vote

[Mist she/her]

Bwah ha ha. I am simultaneously the most and the least suspicious player here. 

Wow. I did not expect to cause this much discussion. 

I'm probably going to get lynched next cycle. Striker I shared some suspicions, and this way it should happen, even if he is elim and his teammates fight back. 

[Furamirionind]

Ok, so I kept my vote on Mist because I really thought people would come out to defend her, but... only Elandera did, and she wasnt even Subtle about it. So I'm thinking Mist might not be an elim amymore.

@DrakeMarshall I cant vote on you because you are always village, not because you're returning from a hiatus. Also, I'm going to have to break that rule of mine this game as about half the players fall under one of these categories.

Speaking of drake being village, I think Drake is 100% village... unsurprisingly lol.

• (1) Mist: Kidpen, 
• (5) StrikerEZ: Karnage, Elandera, Mist, TGK, BR
• (1) Furamirionind: The_Archivist, 
• (1) DrakeMarshall: Sart, 
• (3) The_God_King: Elbereth, Striker, Fura
• (1) Kynedath: DrakeMarshall, 
• (1) Archivist: Megasif

For the record, I'm fine with the Striker vote, though I dont have much of a read on him. That being said, I'm going to vote on TGK as I think that will (potentially) best give info to the next cycle.

Mist

TGK

Edited May 11, 2020 by Furamirionind

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well, Kyne did not show up which can’t be helped. In which case I don’t see much point in keeping that vote where it is at the end of the cycle.

I have reviewed Striker’s vote last cycle. The thing that sways me onto one side is that Striker was up front about the fact that their main reason for voting was to protect Rae. But also was not playing up that aspect of their vote as if they wanted people to pay attention to that fact. So I kind of do not suspect Striker as much.

Examining last cycle I really am starting to think the mutineers just didn’t get a chance to save Rae. A lot of that lynch happened in the last hour or two of the cycle.

8 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Ok, so I kept my vote on Mist because I really thought people would come out to defend her, but... only Elandera did, and she wasnt even Subtle about it. So I'm thinking Mist might not be an elim amymore.

@DrakeMarshall I cant vote on you because you are always village, not because you're returning from a hiatus. Also, I'm going to have to break that rule of mine this game as about half the players fall under one of these categories.

Speaking of drake being village, I think Drake is 100% village... unsurprisingly lol.

• (1) Mist: Kidpen, 
• (5) StrikerEZ: Karnage, Elandera, Mist, TGK, BR
• (1) Furamirionind: The_Archivist, 
• (1) DrakeMarshall: Sart, 
• (2) The_God_King: Elbereth, Striker
• (1) Kynedath: DrakeMarshall, 
• (1) Archivist: Megasif

For the record, I'm fine with the Striker vote, though I dont have much of a read on him. That being said, I'm going to vote on TGK as I think that will (potentially) best give info to the next cycle.

Mist

TGK

Well, I also kind of defended Mist, but since we agree that I am 100% village it’s probably fine 

So... I was planning on voting but I guess Striker has enough of a lead that it wouldn’t matter? I would slightly prefer TGK to Striker though so I guess I will still make that my vote.

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

hopefully i don't die this cycle, i want to do more analysis xD 

currently i'm feeling like Drake might be village as well as Sart and Megasif

possible elims fura, kidpen, aman, 

[Straw he/him]

The cycle is over!

[Straw he/him]

As the sun set, two groups were arguing. One believed that Reverie should be killed, and the other group believed the same about Mavet. Eventually, the vote was decided by a single person, and Reverie was slain. With their dying breath, Reverie cursed the group, and said that they had been loyal all along. While this happened, someone silently snuck into Thankful's tent and killed her with her own knife.

Two more shades rose and followed.

---

StrikerEZ was lynched. He was a Loyal Crewmember!

Elandera was killed. She was a Loyal Crewmember with a Knife!

Vote Count:

StrikerEZ (5): Brightness, Elandera, Karnage, Mist, The_God_King
The_God_King (4): DrakeMarshall, Elbereth, Furamirionind, StrikerEZ
DrakeMarshall (1): Sart
Furamirionind (1): The_Archivist
Mist (1): Kidpen
The_Archivist (1): Megasif

GM Notes:

-The cycle will end on May 12th at 13:00 EST.

-Inactivity warnings for: @CadCom, @Elkanah, @A Joe in the Bush, @Kynedath, and @Zillah.

-If there are any inaccuracies with the vote or inactivity count, please let me know.

Player List:

1. xinoehp512 - Hades Loyal Crewmember

2. Karnage - Shroud

3. StrikerEZ - Reverie Loyal Crewmember

4. Elkanah - Cain

5. The_God_King - Mavet

6. Elandera - Thankful Loyal Crewmember with a Knife

7. Lord_Silberfarben - Silber

8. BrightnessRadiant - Calypso

9. Kynedath - Maledict

10. Kidpen - Aradia

11. A Joe in the Bush - Joseph

12. Elbereth - Crepuscula

13. The_Archivist - Archer

14. Mist - Rona

15. Sart - Sam Trudite

16. Zillah - TBD

17. CadCom - Patience

18. DrakeMarshall - Verity

19. Amanuensis - Nok the Bard

20. Arraenae - Resourceful Smythe Mutineer

21. Megasif - Mega

22. Furamirionind - TBD

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

dang it....

[The_God_King]

I can’t seem to find it myself. What was the vote order against arraenae C1?

[Elkanah he/him]

sorry everyone. Mother's day ended up being a bigger commitment than I had anticipated. I promise you a hefty post when I get back home in about five hours

Edited May 11, 2020 by Elkanah
Semantics

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

18 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

I can’t seem to find it myself. What was the vote order against arraenae C1?

me then megasif then sart 

Quote

Arraenae (3): Brightness, Megasif, Sart

copied from cycle 2 writeup

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

6 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

me then megasif then sart 

copied from cycle 2 writeup

So, judging by the tally this cycle I think the writeup just tallies votes in alphabetical order, but as it so happens you guys voted in alphabetical order so it works out 

Edited May 11, 2020 by DrakeMarshall
Judging, not juding, crummy phone keyboard >:[

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

Just now, DrakeMarshall said:

So, juding by the tally this cycle I think the writeup just tallies votes in alphabetical order, but as it so happens you guys voted in alphabetical order so it works out 

yeah i noticed it was different this time but knew that was the correct order for our votes on Rae lol

[Elbereth she/her]

Hello hello! I've finally managed to read through everything! I'll try to keep this short and succinct but it's me so we'll see how that goes. 

Cycle 1

On 5/9/2020 at 4:50 PM, Furamirionind said:

As for the other items, I find it likely the elims will have at least 1 silver powder, and I also agree with Elkanah about that being the elim to do most of the killing. However, as time goes on, the powder becomes more important for the elims to have, so if the elim with the powder gets lynched, they would be more likely to use their action to give the powder to another, rather than just kill one last time with it. This means I would expect the best roleblock targets are going to be people not up for the lynch.
Of course, now this is an IKYK, but I don't often think losing the powder would be worth winning the IKYK.

Item passing is after the lynch in the cycle, probably to avoid this exact scenario - otherwise the elims would effectively have a silver powder (I could see 2 with 5 players, even?) until the end of the game and the shade roleblock would be completely useless. This way, if the one(s) with the silver powder die(s), the powder goes away and roleblocks can be a useful mechanic. 

On 5/9/2020 at 7:15 PM, Sart said:

No. Looking back it was Ripplegryff who ran it. If I recall correctly, the game dragged on because the dead doc had completely figured Joe out, and were blocking him every turn, while the living players (including me) were too dumb to realize it.

Yup. That was fun! 

On 5/9/2020 at 10:08 PM, Kynedath said:

One thing I want to bring up is how many med kits people think are in the game? I think there will be less than the number of knives in the game, they seem really powerful since you can keep using them until you successfully block a kill. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there was only one this whole game. And if this has already been brought up then I must have missed it, so I'd appreciate it if y'all let me know if that's the case.

I mean.... that's less powerful than a standard Lurcher role? You get one (1) successful protect at most with them, and protects have a pretty low rate of actually working. So I'd say... at least 2, I could see 4 (or even 5 depending on the number of Knives in the game). 

On 5/9/2020 at 11:28 PM, Furamirionind said:

Lol I agree. If anyone has the energy or willpower to successfully impersonate me in a doc, they deserve to fool everyone xD. (If someone wants to try, look at the end of LG55's elims doc, and I look forward to reading what you put in that doc xD.
Actually it's worth mentioning I genuinely think El could impersonate me, though I doubt anyone else could. Just something to keep in mind if we are both in that doc at some point.

D'aww, thanks  

Cycle 2

On 5/10/2020 at 4:34 AM, BrightnessRadiant said:

@Elbereth no special privileges, we're gonna kill you cycle 1 muahahaha jk Although I don't really like this cuz asking it makes it look like you're either soft clear village or elim using a not very nice tactic to be safe from the lynch for a couple cycles. A better way would've just been to ask everyone to give you a cycle or 2 if they don't mind. Rather than specifically referencing the elims. It makes it feel a little too "out of game but also still in game". Not trying to be mean or anything, just not sure it was the best way to go about it.

I think that's a fair critique. I'd note that I intended to do that disclaimer before the game so as not to be alignment-indicative, and honestly I threw the lynch on almost as an afterthought. I would've minded a lot less if I'd been lynched, because I can see that coming / try to argue people out of it, and it'd be on the basis of suspicion and not just me seeming like a good kill target. (I also mostly focused on the elims because the context for my request was when Wilson got killed C2 of QF40 and was Unhappy, and I didn't want that to happen in what might be the only game I play for the next month or two.) 

But hey, it's C3 now, so I don't care anymore. Go nuts.  

8 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

While I agree Rae may have poke voted me if we were teammates, I'm confident I would have tried get the lynch away from her, in some capacity. I still harbor guilt from the game where I bus'd her for village cred, only to get caught by Lopen like two cycles later and lose. There was another game where I bus'd Stink too in a not so great way that dredged up some bad feelings. Since then, I think if you looked at my elim meta, you would often find me running interference for my teammates. Even losing one elim is a fairly large problem. Not to mention that I just love my elim clean sweeps.

I think that's fair, but the lynch was fairly late in the cycle and your only post to date had been 'hey I'm here give me a sec to catch up' - I believe that you would have tried to get the lynch off of her if you had the time to be aware of the situation and write up something that wasn't blatantly just 'I trust Rae let's kill Fura'. I can't know whether that'd have been the case or not, so consider my point unchanged.  

this bit is the important bit just read it and ignore the other stuff k

12 hours ago, The_God_King said:

@Elbereth in a regular QF I would full heartedly agree with you. The whole shades and how many of us there are makes me question it. The biggest thing is that I pointed out several options. Two being that they planned to occupy the dead doc, and the other two that they didn’t. The one I’m worried about is more if one of the elims decided to break the tie to gain trust. Oh well I’m a bit paranoid! Either way I don’t think anyone is quite clear yet. Maybe less likely to be an elim but I’m not a big fan of clearing anyone off a C1 lynch especially where being dead isn’t the end of the game. I need to look through more to confirm. I’ll probably do that next cycle. Hope that clears up a little bit of my thought process. I don’t throw a vote out because I haven’t gathered enough info to make a good suggestion. Im a bit suspicious of the vote because I thought of all the stuff that had been said, my comments had been rather neutral. But if it stirs the pot, so be it  

I think being concerned that one of them is evil is still valid, but people aren't saying they're more than soft cleared at best - not enough to trust blindly, just to be non-priority lynch targets for a while because the balance of evidence favors them a lot more than most people in this game who haven't done anything yet. 

But I'm also wary of anyone trying too hard to put some suspicion on them - if they are village, then the elims don't want a couple of trusted, good villagers running around. And it feels like you're trying to go 'no, don't treat them differently than anyone else, they're just as likely to be evil as anyone else!' - and yes, I'm aware that's not what you're saying exactly. But you're pushing back against them being soft-cleared and I don't like it.  

And furthermore, I don't like your reasoning - or at least, until now I didn't get the impression that your main focus was just a straight bus, and not something to do with the dead doc. Because elims wanting to be in the dead doc is.... very much a stretch to me, given how the mechanic is both nerfed and more useful to the village anyway. It feels a little bit like you're just searching for possible reasons they might be evil. Can you see why that rubs me wrong? 

 

However. FYI to the thread, TGK PMed everyone who voted on him asking for concerns / questions to try to clear things up. I'm saying that here because I think PMs aren't the place for that - that kind of discussion is exactly the kind of thing we want to see in thread for anyone to see, and contribute to / analyze later when we know more about alignments. Sure, @The_God_King, you might get more suspicion that way. You might also get more people on your side. Probably both, and that's valuable discussion. That said, that PM didn't feel like an eliminator thing to do - it really did feel like a villager acting in good faith to try to clear up things. So.... I don't know. I think I'm still going to vote one TGK, but I'm (even) less certain now than I was last cycle. 

tl;dr TGK is maybe suspicious for casting doubt on BR and Sart as village, Aman is Very Mildly Negative for circumstantial evidence, Sart/BR/Megasif are mildly village to varying degrees, everyone else is pretty neutral right now (getting weird conflicting reads from Fura but that's nothing new >>) 

[Furamirionind]

20 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Item passing is after the lynch in the cycle, probably to avoid this exact scenario - otherwise the elims would effectively have a silver powder (I could see 2 with 5 players, even?) until the end of the game and the shade roleblock would be completely useless. This way, if the one(s) with the silver powder die(s), the powder goes away and roleblocks can be a useful mechanic. 

On 5/9/2020 at 7:15 PM, Sart said:

Oh really? Idk how I missed that. >>

20 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

TGK PMed everyone who voted on him asking for concerns / questions to try to clear things up. I'm saying that here because I think PMs aren't the place for that - that kind of discussion is exactly the kind of thing we want to see in thread for anyone to see, and contribute to / analyze later when we know more about alignments.

Yeah, like I said in the PM though, I'm not going to vote on him until I read through his past games to see if it is AI at all. Currently I'm inclined to think he is a villager who thinks that people talking about lynching him in-thread is a waste of time/resources... Which as you point out, is quite the opposite.

20 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

I think that's fair, but the lynch was fairly late in the cycle and your only post to date had been 'hey I'm here give me a sec to catch up' - I believe that you would have tried to get the lynch off of her if you had the time to be aware of the situation and write up something that wasn't blatantly just 'I trust Rae let's kill Fura'. I can't know whether that'd have been the case or not, so consider my point unchanged.  

I understand the suspicion on Aman, but I don't agree with it. I think Rae's poke was pretty NAI of Aman unless you assume he is one alignment or the other... Then it's super AI I guess... But assuming alignment gets rid of the point of making things AI xD.  It's definitely worth remembering for future, but I can 100% back up Aman's claim of him supporting his elim teammates. In all the games I "recently" played with him, he has done everything he could to keep suspicion off them, going as far as to bus himself in LG56 and another game I spectated more recently, but I don't remember the second game's number.

20 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

(getting weird conflicting reads from Fura but that's nothing new >>) 

Heh, always. =)

Also, it's a gut read, but El feels villager-y from that post to me.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Furamirionind

[The_God_King]

12 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

However. FYI to the thread, TGK PMed everyone who voted on him asking for concerns / questions to try to clear things up. I'm saying that here because I think PMs aren't the place for that - that kind of discussion is exactly the kind of thing we want to see in thread for anyone to see, and contribute to / analyze later when we know more about alignments. Sure, @The_God_King, you might get more suspicion that way. You might also get more people on your side. Probably both, and that's valuable discussion. That said, that PM didn't feel like an eliminator thing to do - it really did feel like a villager acting in good faith to try to clear up things. So.... I don't know. I think I'm still going to vote one TGK, but I'm (even) less certain now than I was last cycle. 

Adamantly disagree with you. Every time I've done this in previous games I die due to some miscommunications or being deemed "defensive". So, I decided to make my case in a controlled environment. I can understand the importance of good analysis but I'm playing a bit of recovery right now and can't afford to be hyper-analyzed. I think the purpose of that chat is complete. I wasn't able to convince everyone but maybe bought myself some time so I can make my case in thread. 

Right now gut feeling is BrightnessRadiant @BrightnessRadiant something feels off with how they were involved in both lynches. Specifically, the C2 where she jumped on and really did turn the tide after I had voted. 

1 minute ago, Furamirionind said:

Yeah, like I said in the PM though, I'm not going to vote on him until I read through his past games to see if it is AI at all. Currently I'm inclined to think he is a villager who thinks that people talking about lynching him in-thread is a waste of time/resources... Which as you point out, is quite the opposite.

... are you trying to pick a fight? You keep throwing jabs in that I don't feel are justified. I used the PM to try and establish where I was falling short. I think I established some good answers but most were already in the thread (mainly I've outlined every single one of my thought processes, I'm pretty open book this game about that). If group PMs weren't allowed I would have PMed all of you individually. so I took advantage. 

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

8 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Right now gut feeling is BrightnessRadiant @BrightnessRadiant something feels off with how they were involved in both lynches. Specifically, the C2 where she jumped on and really did turn the tide after I had voted. 

I was involved in both lynches and one was an eliminator on cycle 1. I think that's kind of an important distinction between 2 lynches. When I play I generally make sure to be one of the players on the winning lynch because I believe in trying to get someone lynched each cycle and I also push candidates I suspect and try to back up my case. With striker I didn't get a chance to do as heavy analysis but he was up for the lynch and I couldn't tell if he was being over the top villager or trying to cover himself for trying to save Rae. I'm almost always around for rollover every game and I will swing lynches if I can when I think they need to. Very common for me to vote within the last 10 minutes to solidify a lynch. Glad I did because there would've been a 4 on 4 and no lynch would've happened.

Edit: that being said, I'm less inclined to think you're an elim because going after 1 of the most trusted villagers at this point in time would be way too bold of a move. I'd have no reason to bus an elim teammate day 1 just for trust or for a foothold in the roleblock for 1 cycle. Wouldn't be worth it. The elim team needs their numbers even more than the village does. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by BrightnessRadiant

[Megasif he/him]

Striker felt village, I feel bad about the lynch, I could've at least tried to tie it. Mayhaps one elim on striker, I'm thinking.

There's not a lot to go by to read most players.

Fura and TGK gut villager atm. However BR is not happening today so lets do something else with your vote TGK.

People I'm looking at for a possible lynch:

Archivist

Lorb silber

 

Elbereth feels ostensibly village to me and thats good enough for right now.

Drake feels ok. Will look here more tomorrow. But tbh their posts so far haven't been solvey so to say.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Megasif

[BrightnessRadiant she/her]

@The_God_King I also forgot to mention that if the elims had wanted to sacrifice Rae for one cycle with a free roleblock they wouldn't have also put in a kill order that put a villager in the doc. Having Rae in the doc does nothing other than possibly allow her a voice on who to roleblock but she will be massively outnumbered for the majority of the game i'm sure. All around the only reason at all to bus an elim cycle 1 this game would be for trust and that's not a good enough reason to lose an elim in a game with a butt ton of villagers.

To everyone else, please don't lynch TGK for this. It screams villager to me and I don't think elim would be so bold as to push these theories directly after striker took so much heat for it and was lynched. I honestly feel like this will be a throw away lynch. I'm gonna go back and look at more posts but for now i'm guessing there's a good chance we have a few less vocal elims since a lot of the people posting are feeling pretty genuine.

Edit: not saying that bussing couldn't happen and doesn't happen but that early in game with no reason for Rae to be bussed because she had no current sus on her before I voted on her is a lot less likely. Also if they were gonna try and do anything like that it would be more likely to be a WGG on an elim with a med kit.

Edited May 11, 2020 by BrightnessRadiant

[Elbereth she/her]

41 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

Yeah, like I said in the PM though, I'm not going to vote on him until I read through his past games to see if it is AI at all. Currently I'm inclined to think he is a villager who thinks that people talking about lynching him in-thread is a waste of time/resources... Which as you point out, is quite the opposite.

I understand the suspicion on Aman, but I don't agree with it. I think Rae's poke was pretty NAI of Aman unless you assume he is one alignment or the other... Then it's super AI I guess... But assuming alignment gets rid of the point of making things AI xD.  It's definitely worth remembering for future, but I can 100% back up Aman's claim of him supporting his elim teammates. In all the games I "recently" played with him, he has done everything he could to keep suspicion off them, going as far as to bus himself in LG56 and another game I spectated more recently, but I don't remember the second game's number.

I do not have the time to go do that, so I'm not bothering.  

Oh, I don't at all deny that he supports them - I remember the bussing incidents he talks about, and they weren't very fun at the time. If he'd had the ability to move the lynch off Rae, I'm sure he would've tried to. I'm just not sure that he did have that ability.
And I'm not presently planning on voting for him just because Rae poked him. But I do think it's exactly the sort of thing she'd do if they were evil together. And more broadly, I try to look at circumstantial evidence not from the player's own mouth really carefully, especially when it comes to people I can't read well like Aman. So this is me noting one piece of that for reference. 

32 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Adamantly disagree with you. Every time I've done this in previous games I die due to some miscommunications or being deemed "defensive". So, I decided to make my case in a controlled environment. I can understand the importance of good analysis but I'm playing a bit of recovery right now and can't afford to be hyper-analyzed. I think the purpose of that chat is complete. I wasn't able to convince everyone but maybe bought myself some time so I can make my case in thread. 

Right now gut feeling is BrightnessRadiant @BrightnessRadiant something feels off with how they were involved in both lynches. Specifically, the C2 where she jumped on and really did turn the tide after I had voted. 

... are you trying to pick a fight? You keep throwing jabs in that I don't feel are justified. I used the PM to try and establish where I was falling short. I think I established some good answers but most were already in the thread (mainly I've outlined every single one of my thought processes, I'm pretty open book this game about that). If group PMs weren't allowed I would have PMed all of you individually. so I took advantage. 

meta stuff that isn't really about this game nor alignment specific

On survival and discussion: I'm of the opinion that being hyper-analyzed is good if you're village! Not only because hopefully you'll be able to convince other people, but because then lots of the thread will have commented on you. Getting opinions of players about each other is basically the whole way we solve this game.
> And maybe that results in you dying. I think that's where you're diverging from my opinion here - you're focusing a little too much on survival, imo. Voting to break a tie off yourself is one thing, and fairly normal for either alignment, but trying so hard to not be suspected that you PM the people who voted on you? That feels like a bit much to me. If I were in your position, I would try to get as many opinions about me as possible, and try to avoid my own lynch by proposing a different candidate. And if I died, then the village has loads of information! 
> and note that while I think trying to survive is something more common to eliminators, I'm not trying to argue here that that makes you evil. I'm just trying to explain my genuine disagreement with your actions if you're a villager. 

On miscommunication and defensiveness: I understand not wanting to die from miscommunication, but I a) don't think there was any miscommunication in this particular scenario, and b ) don't think you're more likely to work out a miscommunication in PMs rather than in thread? 
> On the defensive bit, I mean, I certainly think that PMing the people who voted on you and going 'hey can I help explain away your suspicions' is pretty defensive.  I don't read it as evil, but if you're going for 'not defensive' that really doesn't help your look.

everything else

That vote. Does not make me less suspicious of you.  Also, do you have any response to the rest of my post beyond what you quoted? 

I can't speak for him, but my impression is not at all that Fura's trying to pick a fight. He happens to agree with me that using a PM for the kind of discussion you did instead of the thread was not a good choice for a villager - but I suspect that that opinion will be true of most players in this game, and just seems like the obvious conclusion to him. (If I'm mistaken, please let me know!) Lynch discussion is valued, and I don't think that trying to take it to PM instead was useful, as I've explained above. I understand that you don't feel the same, but my guess is that most people won't agree with you. 

Let me know if anything in here doesn't make sense, or if you take offense to any of it - none of it is meant to be taken as aggressive at all, I'm just trying to explain why I disagree. 

Also, I'm about to head into KKC rollover, so I will be online but likely not responding much for the next few hours. Cya after that! 

@BrightnessRadiant I definitely think the PM thing felt village to me, which has me conflicted, but it's still my best suspicion by a long shot.  If you'd like to suggest someone else, go right ahead! 

[The_God_King]

Well, it looks like my opinion is wrong, again. I never swung 100% behind the elims flooding the dead doc. I suggested it as an option and apparently everyone thinks I'm wrong. woohoo another glorious day on SE. PMing is apparently guilty and voting with a gut feeling when the only other option presented is myself is heresy. 

[Elbereth she/her]

3 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Well, it looks like my opinion is wrong, again. I never swung 100% behind the elims flooding the dead doc. I suggested it as an option and apparently everyone thinks I'm wrong. woohoo another glorious day on SE. PMing is apparently guilty and voting with a gut feeling when the only other option presented is myself is heresy. 

....??? I specifically said that I don’t think the PM means you’re evil - it’s actually what’s swayed me most towards you being village! And I also said that voting for your own survival is fine and normal:

Quote

Voting to break a tie off yourself is one thing, and fairly normal for either alignment

I don’t understand how you misinterpreted my post that way. I was just trying to say I disagree that PMing was a good choice and clearly explain why. I’m not trying to say you can’t disagree - you totally can, I just wanted to point out that the meta of this community makes me think most people won’t agree with your reasoning. The only part of that post that involves my suspicions of you is my comment about your vote on BR. 

I’m actually signing off now, but I sincerely didn’t intend to make you upset nor accuse you of anything in that discussion. I hope this post makes that clear. 

[The_God_King]

@Elberethits the continuing demeaning feeling of you were wrong but it’s all right that gets me. The whole youre sounding a lot like an elim but you must be too silly to know that so here’s a pat on the head. If you think I’m evil, lynch me and gather the information. I try to be proactive and it gets shoved in my face. I take initiative and PM, and I get what felt like a very public dressing down when the PM was so positive until you showed up. I don’t go whimpering back to my hole because I want to be engaged in this game. meta can jump off a cliff. Meta’s meant to be broken and I don’t care to learn years worth of traditions when I want to play as myself. Some is fine but how is anyone who didn’t experience it getting made supposed to catch up?

i stand behind my vote for now. I haven’t been presented a better option