Resurrecting dead Spren Theory

[+Bzhydack he/him]

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Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

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Questioner

And I also have a question about the nature of spren being dead. Specifically about whether or not they can resurrected. Because ideas can never really die...

Brandon Sanderson

Ideas can never really die--

Questioner

... Cognitive creatures--

Brandon Sanderson

They are Cognitive creatures. This is theoretically possible but very difficult without the people who originally betrayed their oaths.

So, we know that in-world alive spren belive, that is impossible to resurrect deadeye spren, but we have other information. We also have case of Adolin, he is going to resurrect his blade, and question is when, not if (and this other wierd thing, because Edgedacers are granted with Blade on 3d Ideal, but Adolin have dead Blade allready, how this will work? He will speak 1st Ideal and he will be able to summon Blade in less and less heartbeats? Like 7 on 1st, 4 on 2nd, and 0 on 3d? BTW, I think he allready starts becoming Radiant. Durring fight against Thundrclast he took massive damage and was able to continue fighting).

But when Adolin Resurrect Maya, spren and people will aknowledge that this is possible. Of course, Adolin has really close Connection with Maya, so close that he probably "rewrite" her old Connection with now-long-dead-Radiant. Maybe this can be also due Mayas nature, she is Culitvationspren, so can have bigger ability to grow and heal in time. Additionaly, it will be rally cool, that Maya will grant Adolin with Regrowth Surge, and he will use this to heal HER (if its possible of course).

Anyway, not every Shardbearer has the same Connection with his Blade as Adolin has. For most, Shardblades are, simply, just blades. So to ressurect other Spren, we will need other solution. And maybe we have it. Possibility not available for ancient Radiants, even more, feared.

Yep. Traitor. Odium Splinter with Will strong enough to break free.

Sia-Anat.

She can change Spren. And spren changed by her can restore some abilities - we saw this in Kholinar Oathgate. After Honors death, Oathgate spren are not allow to pass anyone in or out Shadesmar. But Kholinar Oathgate spren arent restricted, after Sia-Anat touch. We know also, that she has control over that changes, because Odium wants to kill Kal and co. with this Oathgate, but she choose to change spren other way. We know also that Sia-Anat children can bond with Humans, Glys is one of them afterall.

This can be Sia-Anat proof of loyality and pure intentions. She may be able to remove part with Connection with dead Radiant from deadeye spren, leaving them changed, but with ability to form new Connection, and this new bond will heal Spren. And what Sia-Anat will have from this? Simply - more children. She seems to be really caring about them, what is.... wierd for Splinter of Hatered.

We can also speculate that one who get this idea will be Renarin - simply because of Glys.

[Karger he/him]

23 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

BTW, I think he allready starts becoming Radiant. Durring fight against Thundrclast he took massive damage and was able to continue fighting).

His brother healed him and we don't know if he will become radiant even if it is generally believed he will revive Maya.  I have seen Sja-anat responsible for fixing blades theories.  They make sense.  We will see.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

His brother healed him and we don't know if he will become radiant even if it is generally believed he will revive Maya.

No, Renarin wasnt yet on place. It was right before Maya apear in 7 heartbeats.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

No, Renarin wasnt yet on place. It was right before Maya apear in 7 heartbeats.

Renarin healed at the perpendicularity and again at the thunderclast.  Adolin suffered no significant damage in between.

[Watchcry he/him]

I believe a combination of Dalinar and Renarin will be able to bring back spren. 

[Darth_Hel]

Complete tin foil theory. We see that Odium has saved the souls of the Fused allowing them to come back each desolation seeking vengeance. Is it possible that part of Honor's plan to defeat Odium involved Honor doing the same to any Radiant or even just Honor aligned surgebinders, saving them hidden in the storm? Perhaps Dalinar or another will tap into this and release them for the final battle where they could possibly fix their spren by living up to the oaths? Might explain why Nohadon seems to still be around if he was the first one saved.

Thinking about this a bit more, maybe not trapped in the storm but in Cusicesh. The energy absorbed from witnesses may be the thing allowing Cusicesh to preserve the Radiants with each face shown being one of the preserved. These could be what Cusicesh is "protecting".

Edited July 14, 2020 by Darth_Hel

[+Bzhydack he/him]

10 hours ago, Karger said:

Renarin healed at the perpendicularity and again at the thunderclast.  Adolin suffered no significant damage in between.

No significant damage? Broken ribs is no significant damage? Also he fall from roof top twice, damage his leg, and was able to stand up. For me it is impressive.

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

No significant damage? Broken ribs is no significant damage? Also he fall from roof top twice, damage his leg, and was able to stand up. For me it is impressive.

Maybe.  Not supernatural though and he did not do anything with broken ribs.  Also when did he fall from the roof?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

I cannot quote this, because i have translated books. But i can describe fight, step by step.

1. Adolin atacks Thunderclast. He cut off one foot.

2. Adolin meets Tshadr.

3. Tshadr and Adolin atacks. Tshadr is atacked by two Fused. Adolin throws Maya and kills one of them.

4. Adolin is atacked by Thunderclast. He cut off one finger, but get hit. Now he have broken ribs.

5. Adolin try to run.

6. Maya apear in his hands in 7 HB. Adolin uses sword to escape level down. He falls first time. Damaged Leg. Maya worns him about Fused. Adolin dodge atack.

8. Thunderclast hits house, when was Adolin, and destroys it. Adolin falls second time. Cannot move.

9. Maya try to comunicate.

10. Adolin stays up, with Maya.

11. Renarin comms at last.

[Pathfinder]

26 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

4. Adolin is atacked by Thunderclast. He cut off one finger, but get hit. Now he have broken ribs.

Broken ribs hurt like braize, but you can still move and if needed push yourself to run. 

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6. Maya apear in his hands in 7 HB. Adolin uses sword to escape level down. He falls first time. Damaged Leg. Maya worns him about Fused. Adolin dodge atack.

He didn't fall the full distance as you said, he used the sword to arrest some of the impact, and then dropped the remaining. The leg injury is a sprain. Again, storming hurts, but a person can still move. 

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8. Thunderclast hits house, when was Adolin, and destroys it. Adolin falls second time. Cannot move.

Blacked out from the pain, which is normal. 

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11. Renarin comms at last.

Just want to make clear I am in no way shape or form diminishing Adolin's accomplishments. It was very brave and strong of him to do what he did. But a broken rib is different from a broken leg. A broken rib hurts a lot when breathing or exertion, but problems tend to be over the long term (pneumonia, etc). Not as much in the short term. Same thing with a sprained leg. It hurts immensely and you don't want to put weight on it, but in urgent situations you can limp with it. A broken leg, or arm on the other hand any continual use will not only result in massive amounts of pain, but also worsening of the condition (for instance trying to put weight on a broken leg would turn it from a fracture, to a fully exposed split). So I do not believe any of those actions were supernatural.  

Edited July 14, 2020 by Pathfinder

[+Bzhydack he/him]

Yeah, this can be normal adrenaline works, we have even examples from our world, so this is clearly possible. But can be also a little help from Spren. Like with Elokhar during fight against chasmfiend, like Kaladin on start of Bridge Four. Brandon teaches us to pay attention to details. Like this.

[Pathfinder]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

Yeah, this can be normal adrenaline works, we have even examples from our world, so this is clearly possible. But can be also a little help from Spren. Like with Elokhar during fight against chasmfiend, like Kaladin on start of Bridge Four. Brandon teaches us to pay attention to details. Like this.

Very true. It is open whether it is or is not. For myself I feel it is not, but I wish you luck with your theory!

(side note, re-reading your post, what instance were you referring to with Elhokar? Or do you mean when Dalinar catches the chasmfiend's claw?)

[+Bzhydack he/him]

4 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

(side note, re-reading your post, what instance were you referring to with Elhokar? Or do you mean when Dalinar catches the chasmfiend's claw)

This one too, but when Elhokar get hit by Chasmfiend, it was described as killing blow. But he survived, but with cracked gems in Plate. I think that he draw Stormlight from them and this is why they crack.

[Pathfinder]

16 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

This one too, but when Elhokar get hit by Chasmfiend, it was described as killing blow. But he survived, but with cracked gems in Plate. I think that he draw Stormlight from them and this is why they crack.

I scanned the scene and I don't see it being mentioned as a killing blow. All three (Dalinar, Adolin, and Elhokar) got hit with a claw and or tail from the chasmfiend. All survived. So in that case I believe it was the nature of the shardplate. I think the purpose of that scene was to highlight Dalinar as his plate glowed, and it was specified that he shouldn't have been able to hold the chasmfiend's claw like that. That I would agree was a hint of Dalinar's coming radiancy. But other than that, I think its just the plate. Unless you are saying the same exact thing was happening to all three at the same time? Because neither Dalinar's nor Adolin's plate's gemstones were broken. Their gemstones were fine. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Pathfinder

[Eternal Khol he/him]

I like to think that Dalinar is the key to reviving the deadeyes. 

something to do with his spiritual adhesion and connecting with the remnants(if there is any) of the souls of the Radiants who betrayed their oaths

 

but then again, i like to think that Dalinar is the key to everything, so

Edited July 14, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

14 hours ago, Darth_Hel said:

Thinking about this a bit more, maybe not trapped in the storm but in Cusicesh. The energy absorbed from witnesses may be the thing allowing Cusicesh to preserve the Radiants with each face shown being one of the preserved. These could be what Cusicesh is "protecting".

I like this explanation of Cusicesh a lot, and it would explain its moniker of The Protector quite well. We know from the Puuli interlude that some serious rust is coming from the Origin, so even if it's not housing the Cognitive shadows of dead Radiants, it seems highly likely that it's function of protection will be triggered by the assault from the Origin.

This is definitely a speculative theory, but there is that WoB about the afterlife in Roshar being funky, and there's the fact that a central pillar of Vorinism is about training in this life to take back the Tranquilune halls. This sounds like myth based on perception of a seemingly inexplicable phenomena (namely that there's somethings strange about dying on Roshar), and I really like the idea that Cusicesh houses a tidal force of Rosharan soldiers to battle against the tidal forces of Odium pouring through the Origin of Storms.

Further, this sort of development of people along specifics line, especially martial lines (the Vorin principle of self perfection) and the long rangendeness of this plan smacks of Cultivation's involvement.

Cucisesh could quite possibly be Cultivation's Horn of Valere.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

Cucisesh is wierd spren, definitly something what will be important. But we dont know why. I see two possibilities:

1. He is Dai-Gonarthis. Clearly assosiated with Water Unmade responsible for Scrouge of Aimia. He drain energy from people, similar to Unmade, we even have Quote, that Dai-Gonarthis was able to do that.

2. He is the Sibling. Maybe ti is why he is "Protector" - earlier he was Mind of Urithiru, he also is strong enough to stay whole after breaking oaths. But without Bondsmith and City he will go search for another City to protect. We also know Sibling "Is sleeping" - and Cucisesh seems to be in something like Standby mode.

Of course, is possible he is just the big spren.