Investitures

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

Being that Cultivation and Honor seem to have combined to make one investiture, surgebinding, how many investitures are there? (Meaning, did other shards also make combined investitures?)

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

Being that Cultivation and Honor seem to have combined to make one investiture, surgebinding, how many investitures are there? (Meaning, did other shards also make combined investitures?)

[Weltall]

5 hours ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

Being that Cultivation and Honor seem to have combined to make one investiture, surgebinding, how many investitures are there? (Meaning, did other shards also make combined investitures?)

For a multi-Shard magic system to emerge you need multiple Shards on the same world. We have examples of this on Scadrial where Preservation and Ruin each have their own systems, with feruchemy being the shared one. Roshar has three magic systems (or thirty, in the same way that allomancy could be thought of as one magic or a whole bunch per metal) and all of the magic systems on Sel are mixed Devotion/Dominion with some leaning more one way than the other.

On Roshar, Surgebinding is primarily associated with Honor even though Cultivation is involved with it. Look at how you get access to the magic and you'll see how Honor-centric it is, and we know the Radiants of old could speak to Honor but we have no evidence they were as closely connected to Cultivation. We know Voidbinding is the second of the three major magic systems on Roshar and that's of Odium, which leaves a third system for Cultivation. Khriss suspects in the Ars Arcanum that the Old Magic isn't actually a system and Cultivation's magic is something else. Since the only use we've seen of the Old Magic is the Nigthwatcher (a godspren) and Cultivation providing similar effects, it's quite likely that the Old Magic is indeed something unique and not the third system.

All other magic systems we've seen in the Cosmere are the result of a single Shard, or are magics that could arise without the direct intervention of a Shard even though they're associated with one by default. Awakening on Nalthis is an example of the former, the Aviar on First of the Sun of the latter. Shards can also be involved with multiple magic systems across worlds; Sand Mastery on Taldain is a directly accessible form of Investiture but there's some other manifestation on Darkside that we don't know much about, and given the number of worlds she's involved with it's pretty safe to assume that she's tinkered with magic on plenty of other worlds even if she didn't have a hand in creating the systems. Or to be more precise, shaping them. Brandon's mentioned several times that Shards don't truly create the magic systems they power, they just influence what arises organically from the interaction of their power, the world(s) and the sDNA of the inhabitants of that world. Also, that there are natural pathways that the magic follows which is why Lightweaving exists on both Yolen and Roshar.

[Hoidolasium he/him]

We don't know, since it's a conscious action for two Shards to collaborate on making in Invested Art, which means it will be directly stated or implied at some point in the books set on that world. The three magic systems off the top of my head that are Dishardic are Feruchemy, the Dor (which is a weird one), and Surgebinding.

[Hoidolasium he/him]

We don't know, since it's a conscious action for two Shards to collaborate on making in Invested Art, which means it will be directly stated or implied at some point in the books set on that world. The three magic systems off the top of my head that are Dishardic are Feruchemy, the Dor (which is a weird one), and Surgebinding.

Edit: sorry, double posted

Edited July 23, 2020 by Hoidolasium

[Eternal Khol he/him]

well, Feruchemy is of Ruin and Preservation.

all the selish magics(over a dozen) draw power from the Dor, which is the combined remnants of Dominion and Devotion.

plus Surgebinding which is H+C

so at least 14 from the shards we know, right now.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Hoidolasium said:

since it's a conscious action for two Shards to collaborate on making in Invested Art

not really.

 

Agate

I can guess two possible options for the kandra.

1. God Sazed endowed the gift of presence on the now mistwraiths.

2. Some of the kandra survived in the cave with the Terrisman and people of the city, along with the small mistwraiths, these are re-born with the spikes they pulled out during the resolution.

I can imagine too that some kandra on assignment may have hidden in the shelters with the rest of humanity.

Brandon Sanderson

The kandra.

Yes, they live. The people were smart enough, eventually, to replace their spikes. (And there were a couple who were on assignment who made it to storage caches.)

However, there will likely never be any more of them, since Hemalurgy is required to make them. They are now some of the few people who can communicate directly with Sazed, who—like Ruin—can whisper to people most easily when they are connected to him via spikes. With some speculation, you can probably guess what kind of roles the kandra will end up playing in future books.

Kaimipono

On a broader level, is Hemalurgy officially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?)

Brandon Sanderson

Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

 

 

Argent (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is the "balance" between Ruin and Preservation. Would any combination of Shards create a "balance" magic, so to speak, or are only certain Shards compatible?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy ended up being a balance system, because of how polar Ruin and Preservation were. Any world with at least two Shards will result in a similar phenomenon. 

Argent (paraphrased)

Like Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Like Roshar. There is something like that going on there.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 5, 2013)   

Edited July 23, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Karger he/him]

Cultivation has a secret magic system not to mention her old magic system.

[Hoidolasium he/him]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Cultivation has a secret magic system not to mention her old magic system.

Do we have any idea what it is? That would give her three systems, which is a lot all things considered.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Hoidolasium said:

Do we have any idea what it is? That would give her three systems, which is a lot all things considered.

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MiToRo94

Honor has Stormlight and Odium has Voidlight, is there a Cultivationlight? If so, can an Invested person use it as a third magic on Roshar or is a boon/curse the only magic of Cultivation/Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson

There is more! I'll just say that, the rest is Read And Find Out. You are theorizing in an accurate direction.

Read For Pixels 2018 (Sept. 1, 2018)

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PrinceDusty

At the Pixel Project event, you talked about a further extent of Cultivation's magic than just the boon and bane? Are there any people alive at the end of Oathbringer who are influenced by that magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Lift. Well, I guess that's a boon, isn't it? Yes, there are. But nobody on screen that has Cultivation magic, other than boons or curses from the Nightwatcher. Yes, there is such a thing, no, there's no one else on screen. But what Lift does is a hint.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

6 hours ago, Hoidolasium said:

Do we have any idea what it is? That would give her three systems, which is a lot all things considered.

Presumably the magic fish in the Purelake are hers.

[Hoid the Former Drifter he/him]

10 hours ago, Weltall said:

with feruchemy being the shared one

Are we sure feruchemy isn't a thisd shard?

[+Bzhydack he/him]

16 minutes ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

Are we sure feruchemy isn't a thisd shard?

Yes, we are sure.

[Weltall]

1 hour ago, Hoid the Drifter said:

Are we sure feruchemy isn't a thisd shard?

Extremely sure. First off, Sazed outright says so in the Hero of Ages epigraphs. Since he is at that point literally the god that's empowering all three magic systems, I think it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about.

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Allomancy, obviously, is of Preservation. The rational mind will see this. For, in the case of Allomancy, net power is gained. It is provided by an external source—Preservation's own body. Hemalurgy is of Ruin. It destroys. By taking abilities from one person and giving them to another—in reduced amounts—power is actually lost. In line with Ruin's own appointed purpose—breaking down the universe into smaller and smaller pieces—Hemalurgy gives great gifts, but at a high cost. Feruchemy, it should be noted, is the power of balance. Of the three powers, only it was known to men before the conflict between Preservation and Ruin came to a head. In Feruchemy, power is stored up, then later drawn upon. There is no loss of energy—just a changing of the time and rate of its use.

Also, have these WoBs:

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Czanos

Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (minus atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts?

Brandon Sanderson

Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the Metallic Arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

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Chaos

Would the Three Metallic Arts operate in other worlds, or are they direct results of Ruin and Preservation and thus only operate in Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

To use Feruchemy or Allomancy in almost every case, one must have the right spiritual and genetic codes, imprinted upon people during the creation of Scadrial by Ati and Leras. To use Hemalurgy, one must first have someone with these right spiritual and genetic codes, then take the power from them. Other people on other worlds are not going to simply discover the Three Metallic Arts by accident.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

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Comatose

So here's my last question. If there ARE people on the other side of the world, did Vin kill them all by placing the sun on their side, or do they have they're own Ruin/Preservation battle going on over there as well? Do they also have allomancy feruchemy and hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they're not dead. Yes, Rashek was aware of them. In fact, he placed them there as a reserve. I knew he wanted a 'control' group of people in case his changes to genetics ended with the race being in serious trouble. All I'll say is that he found a way other than changing them genetically to help them survive in the world he created. And since they were created by Ruin and Preservation, they have the seeds of the Three Metallic Arts in them—though without anyone among them having burned Lerasium, Allomancers would have been very rare in their population and full Mistborn unheard of.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

And the 'we're really really sure' capstone:

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Questioner

With Allomancy is of Preservation, and you have Hemalurgy, which is of Ruin. Is Feruchemy a joint effort between the two? Or is it a third party?

Brandon Sanderson

Joint effort.

FanX 2018 (Sept. 8, 2018)

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Weltall