Neon Reads The Wheel of Time

[aneonfoxtribute]

Oh, we're seeing Logain again a lot quicker than I expected considering he escaped

 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Question. When is the best time to read the prequel?

[Dunkum he/him]

not sure.  definitely not first.  i'd probably wait and read it last, not for spoiler related reasons - once you're a few books in, i don't think it holds much in the way of spoilers - more just to avoid breaking up the story flow by jumping backwards for an extended flashback right in the middle.

[aneonfoxtribute]

I kind of want to see life at the Seanchan homeland. Like when they find damane. On a curiosity level anyway, I want to know how people react to that. On an emotional level, I'm gonna hate it, because there is no reaction I will like. Either it will be painful or the Seanchan will be insane as they are wont to be. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Domon is great. He just walks into the room with the girls, sees Egeanin, and then just starts fighting her. Absolutely wonderful. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Alright, so we've got some Forsaken names. The one at Rhuidean is Asmodean, and the one with the mind control powers is Moghedien

[aneonfoxtribute]

So Perrin has got some future sight. I don't know what to make of the visions of Rand and Mat, but I think that the Egwene vision is gonna be her being forced to the darkness, and Elayne and Nynaeve being there meaning that something goes bad in Tanchico and they get turned. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Aha. Luc IS Slayer, like I thought. Well, most likely, anyway. It's a theory Perrin has so not confirmed, but I suspected it from the moment that Luc first appeared. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Faile: "The year is just to make sure you really do get on well together --which we do, as anyone can see"

Faile, stop lying. You don't get along well together at all. It's baffling that either of you has fallen for the other given how much crap you put each other through.

[Dunkum he/him]

21 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

Faile: "The year is just to make sure you really do get on well together --which we do, as anyone can see"

Faile, stop lying. You don't get along well together at all. It's baffling that either of you has fallen for the other given how much crap you put each other through.

Jordan was not very good at convincing relationships, at least not the falling for each other stage.  Perrin and Faile never really made any sense at all, and he pretty much skipped that step entirely for Nynaeve and Lan.  like they've barely met and then suddenly by whitebridge they are in love?

[aneonfoxtribute]

Yeah I definitely see that.

And talking about complaints, my GOD do I hate how much characters think they're right and completely shut out any arguments to the contrary. With Rand it's fine, I have no problems with him, but with Elayne, Nynaeve, and Faile, it gets so annoying after a while. All three of them are way too holier-than-thou and they absolutely refuse to listen to anything anyone is saying that doesn't agree with them. It happens with minor characters too but they're minor characters so I'm not as bothered by, say, the Women's Circle doing it. But when we have four main characters pulling that crap, with only one of them having a justifiable reason for it, it's so frustrating. This book has been full of that for all three of them. At least Faile had the decency to get better about it. 

[Dunkum he/him]

1 minute ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

Yeah I definitely see that.

And talking about complaints, my GOD do I hate how much characters think they're right and completely shut out any arguments to the contrary. With Rand it's fine, I have no problems with him, but with Elayne, Nynaeve, and Faile, it gets so annoying after a while. All three of them are way too holier-than-thou and they absolutely refuse to listen to anything anyone is saying that doesn't agree with them. It happens with minor characters too but they're minor characters so I'm not as bothered by, say, the Women's Circle doing it. But when we have four main characters pulling that crap, with only one of them having a justifiable reason for it, it's so frustrating. This book has been full of that for all three of them. At least Faile had the decency to get better about it. 

Rand does a good bit of this too honestly, like when he ignores Moiraine, who legitimately has decades of political experience on him.  but by the time he does do it, we've seen enough of his perspective to understand exactly why, so it doesn't feel quite as egregious.  After being jerked around by Aes Sedai and forsaken for months on end, its sort of understandable why he'd give htem short shrift.  And even then its less like "I'm right and you're wrong, so there" and more like "I'm sick you you trying to force me to do things your way, and now I don't have to listen to you so I won't"

[aneonfoxtribute]

I did mention Rand. I also said that he didn't bug me as much. Mostly because he only does it to Moiraine, not to other people who are actually trying to help him like Egwene (unless he thinks Moiraine put her up to it), and he has actual reason to distrust her. I don't agree with it, but I understand it and it doesn't grate on me because it's not because he thinks he knows better. With Faile, Nynaeve, and Elayne, they pull that crap on people they DO trust and have no reason not to listen to. Faile does it mostly towards Perrin because she's being a petulant child about him not wanting her to come with him (though at least she has mostly stopped doing it, she's been a lot better since they got to Emond's Field), and Elayne and Nynaeve do it to just about anybody who disagrees with them with what they want to do, INCLUDING EACH OTHER, for zero reason other than just thinking that she is correct and that any arguments are just "fool decisions by men". It gets exceptionally annoying.

Edited October 6, 2020 by aneonfoxtribute

[aneonfoxtribute]

I do hope this isn't the actual end for Moghedien. She was built up way too much recently to just be unceremoniously taken out like that, being apparently stronger than Lanfear, and I'm tired of the storming FORSAKEN being taken out as easily as they are. 

[Dunkum he/him]

51 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I do hope this isn't the actual end for Moghedien. She was built up way too much recently to just be unceremoniously taken out like that, being apparently stronger than Lanfear, and I'm tired of the storming FORSAKEN being taken out as easily as they are. 

for what its worth:

1. Moghedien isn't stronger than Lanfear.  at least not in the Power.  She is allegedly better at manipulating tel'aran'rhiod, but Lanfear is definitely stronger with Saidar.

2. Rand is, I think, as strong in the power as it is possible to be, so strength for strength he is a match for any of the forsaken, more than a match for most.

[aneonfoxtribute]

Rand might be strong in power, but so are Nynaeve and Egwene. The difference is in their experience. As has been said a few times, the Forsaken have strength that far exceeds the norm of Aes Sedai of the modern time, and they have greater knowledge about the Power and greater experience to put into practice. There should not be five of them defeated at this point. It makes them seem ineffectual and not like a real threat when half of our main characters can beat one with relative ease, especially when Rand has nobody to learn from so he still doesn't really know how to use it properly and Nynaeve literally cannot use her power at will, and yet they're the two that have defeated every one defeated so far. I did misremember the comparisons between Lanfear and Modhedien though. I thought it was the other way around, that Lanfear was better at manipulating Tel'aran'rhiod and Meghodian was stronger in the Power. 

[Dunkum he/him]

Rand is a lot stronger than Egwene or Nynaeve.  but yes, you are right that it strains credulity a bit.  A lot of it comes down to Rand doing things instinctively without understanding what he is doing, but basically randomly lashing out with the power would normally be almost as likely to cause the user problems as it would the enemy, so the fact that it is working for him is distinctly unlikely.

[aneonfoxtribute]

It's not that I find it incredulous. Rand being as strong as he is makes sense. My issue really stems from the Forsaken not feeling threatening. For the Dark One's most powerful, the most feared named characters, the strongest Channelers who know what they're doing, four of them are currently dead, three of them went down no harder than a Myrdraal in the first three books, and of the dead ones only Baalzamon had any sort of presence at all. One more since has been defeated, though seemingly not for good, with no less struggle, the first time she meets Nynaeve when she's not controlling her mind, and she almost loses her power entirely. Yes she is rusty, but how am I expected to take her seriously as a threat now when she inevitably shows up again later? Why should I take any of the future Forsaken as a threat when only two of the ones we've met are still alive, and one of them was beaten so quickly? Even Lanfear, for all her screentime and presence, has done nothing to make me believe she is at all a threat. I only have words of characters that Lanfear is really strong and really scary, but I had that for the three jobbers whose names I don't even remember, all of whom died immediately after they engaged in combat with the main character. It kills the stakes of the story when I'm not afraid that anything will hurt these characters, and with the showing the Forsaken has made so far, the only member of the Dark One's forces I'm actually afraid would be able to hurt the characters (or at least those with the Power, Mat and Perrin are a different story but they have yet to fight a single one) is the Dark One himself. It's not that I don't believe that it's possible, I just expect the most powerful characters in the story so far to actually SHOW that they are the most powerful, to SHOW that they are a threat that I should be taking seriously, and they have failed at that so far. But it's still early on, only the fourth book, and there's a lot more books and a lot more Forsaken to go.

Edited October 7, 2020 by aneonfoxtribute

[aneonfoxtribute]

The scene at Alcair Dal was so good. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

Ohhhhh the Gleeman was Asmodean. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

And I have now, finally, after two months, finished The Shadow Rising.

[aneonfoxtribute]

Man I feel like I have to read a summary of Shadow Rising because I feel like a lot of things flew over my head. 

[Eluvianii he/him]

I feel like that for all the books, but I get the gist. I have to disagree about Faile and Perrin, since they got together, the more they are on-page, the more convinced I am that they're the perfect couple. 

So what did you think about it? I personally found a bit strange how the ending was split into three climaxes but I liked it. It kinda shows how the scope is actually on its way to be the freaking biggest epic fantasy ever created that I was promised. 

[Dunkum he/him]

19 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

I feel like that for all the books, but I get the gist. I have to disagree about Faile and Perrin, since they got together, the more they are on-page, the more convinced I am that they're the perfect couple.

I don't know that i'd ever consider them the perfect couple.  pretty sure Faile is at least a little obnoxious throughout, fo rinstance.  but I do agree that Jordan's depiction of them being in love and being in a relationship actually gets better.  but as far as the fallign in love part, he does a pretty poor job of that in most cases

[aneonfoxtribute]

If its just based on character dynamics, I literally never thought they were friends, let alone in love with each other. They act like they hate each other. I knew that the intention was that they were in love basically the whole book but I never felt that just based on how they interacted with one another until they actually got to Emond's Field. 

I thought it was pretty good, though I will say I don't know why, but I feel a lot more tired having finished this book than even all three Stormlight books. This one took me a while. I figured fairly early on that there would be multiple different climaxes, when everyone went to opposite corners of the world basically. I'm more disappointed that Mat/Egwene didn't have a climax. They were just chilling in Cold Rocks Hold while Rand was fighting a Forsaken.