Rhythm of War Full Book Reactions

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

1 minute ago, Govir said:

I have not actually finished this book, but I’m in Part 5 now and wanted to write this down in public, because I finally have a theory about it. I think the Windrunner 4th ideal is along the lines of “I will accept that I cannot protect everyone.” I do think I remember this being theorized before, but it never really stuck with me until right now (as I read Teft’s first POV in Part 5). Welp, 10% to go (probably less, because of the Ars Arcanum). See you on the flip side.

Well, that’s pretty much word for word Kal’s oath, so...

Edited November 20, 2020 by Kingsdaughter613

[CaptainRyan he/him]

9:30pm Monday to 9:30pm Tuesday, only taking breaks to help with my newborn from time to time.

Rhythm of War is my least favorite Stormlight Archive book and continues a personal trend of liking each book slightly less than the previous. My personal opinion is that the Way of Kings was the best book in the series and then each successive book is slightly less, in a literary sense, good.

To be clear, Rhythm of War had a lot of amazing elements and, overall, the Stormlight Archives remains a great series. I do, however, worry that Sanderson has put destination before journey.

Too many times in the series, and in this book, seemingly great or important scenes have happened off-screen. Scenes that could, that should, have a powerful impact on the reader are skipped completely.

Kaladin flying Shallan to Thaylenar in Oathbringer is the first egregious example I can think of. After their impactful time together in the chasms in Words of Radiance, with the undertones of a potential romance in Oathbringer, Sanderson skipped out on potentially powerful scene that could have built tension, foreshadowed outcomes, and developed both Kaladin and Shallan's character. At the end of Oathbringer, we are not given a glimpse of Adolin and Shallan's wedding, Jasnah's coronation, nor are we shown what should have been a difficult, but revealing, conversation between Dalinar and Szeth.

Rhythm of War continues this tradition of skipping key storytelling moments. In Kaladin's case, he apparently has had, another, entirely off-screen romance (first Tara, now Lyn, maybe others). Furthermore, despite Kaladin being in all 5 acts in the same physical space as Laral, we get no interaction whatsoever between childhood friends and low-key tension romance potential. During the life-and-death situation in the Tower, we are to assume that Kaladin never once even thought of Laral, much less made sure she and her kids were ok? Does that sound like the protective Kaladin we know?

Jasnah's situation is even worse. While I understand that she is a "back 5" character, that does not mean Sanderson can just completely ignore her in the "front 5". Her scenes, after Words of Radiance, continue to be short and disappointing. We never actually see her as a Queen, but only as someone who interacts with Dalinar. We never see the effects her edicts (women can inherit titles, slavery to be outlawed, etc.) have on the people of Alethkar; her actions seem to exist in a vacuum and no results are ever shown. Her romance with Wit/Hoid came out of nowhere and the one scene we are given of them together did so much surface level telling and zero showing (in the literary sense of "show not tell"; I am not asking for a Wit/Jasnah sex scene). Even her battle scene was muted and dull; she was less useful on the battlefield than Adolin would have been despite being a 4th Oath Radiant. It is one thing to want to keep a mystery until later, it is entirely another neuter a character completely until it is "their turn". Remember how mysterious, knowledgeable, wise, intriguing, etc. Jasnah was in the Way of Kings? Compare that to this book. She is dull and uninteresting and it is a shame for such a wonderful character to be treated this way.

I could go on and on about how Sanderson keeps pushing for his plot points, his "I have been dreaming of this scene for 20 years" moments, instead of giving us a well-paced narrative that does its cast of incredible characters justice. Too much, in my opinion, is being sacrificed to keep "on schedule" instead of allowing the story to go where it needs to go in order to not just be incredible in a "this plot has cool twists and turns" way, but also in maintaining a satisfying narrative overall. 

For those who remember when Sanderson agreed to finish the Wheel of Time, I see the Stormlight Archives going in the opposite direction of what Sanderson did for the ending of the Wheel of Time. Initially, Sanderson promised, repeatedly, that the Wheel of Time would be finished in a single book. Over and over we heard that no matter how large of a book it became, it would be a single book. Well, look at how that turned out. Sanderson ended up doing 3 books instead of 1. And that was the right call! He absolutely was right to go back on his promise and finish the series in the 3 books instead of 1. Imagine how truncated the story would have been with 1 book! Imagine how many great, and important, character scenes we would have lost! 

Sanderson should, in my opinion, pause and reevaluate where the Stormlight Archives is going. He should reflect on what is being sacrificed, narratively, in order to meet his 1 book every 3 years, 10 books total plan. While I respect his understandable caution against exploring secondary characters, or bogging the story down in "side quests", I think he is cutting more and more from each book in order to fit his schedule and I feel like that is truly harming the narrative and the characters. 

Other items that irked me:
1. Why did a bunch of side characters even bother going to Shadesmar with Adolin and Shallan? They, literally, did nothing. Adolin saved Notum solo, and Adolin and Shallan handled the whole trial thing without their help. 
2. Dalinar and Jasnah's battle for Emul was both pointless and uninteresting. It existed solely as an excuse to get Dalinar and Jasnah out of the Tower so the rest of the plot could work.
3. Speaking of the Tower, are we to seriously accept that Dalinar and Jasnah would ignore the situation there for weeks on end? I find it absolutely unbelievable that they would just shrug and think, "I hope Kaladin does his thing."
4. Where the shardfork were the Dustbringers? Did they, too, rebel? Did they not? How is that we never saw a single Dustbringer doing anything?
5. Same question but for the Skybreakers. Why didn't we see Jasnah versus 2-3 Skybreakers?
6. Venli's near non-participation in everything despite this being "her" book.
7. The Venli/Eshonai flashbacks felt weak. I think I lacked enough connection (pun intended) to the characters and so their flashbacks were less powerful.
8. We did not get to see Lift and Mraize interacting.
9. Despite being a "middle book" that is supposed to set up the climactic final battle, Team Radiant won both the battle for the Tower and the battle for Emul with minimal losses (RIP Teft). Furthermore, the "big bad", Rayse/Odium, was just replaced by Taravangian. While this might have a sinister undertone, overall, replacing a genocidal maniac with no limits with a genocidal maniac who cares about saving the world is a big step up (imo). It feels like the stakes were dramatically lowered at the end of this book.
 

Now, I know I did a lot of complaining, so I want to end on a happier note and share some of the parts that I truly loved.
1. Adolin's efforts to help Kaladin. Their bromance is one of my favorite scenes in part 1.
2. Adolin in general. His character continues to be a wonderful addition to the books. He is an example of what can happen when you deviate from the plan (my understanding is that Adolin was supposed to be a far more minor character).
3. Raboniel was a fantastic antagonist. Her and Navani's interactions were exceptionally well-done.
4. The Pursuer being absolutely demolished by Kaladin, both reputationally and then literally, was fantastic.
5. Taravangian ascending to Odium's Shard is an incredible plot twist and I am excited to see where Brandon takes this.
6. Hoid being hoodwinked by Taravangian was excellent and really helps show that Hoid is not unbeatable.

Two unforgettable lines:
Kaladin channeling Rand Al'Thor from the Path of Daggers: "I am the storm."

Navani finishing her Radiant oath: "Journey before destination, you bastard."

[Blacksmithki]

5 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

5. Taravangian ascending to Odium's Shard is an incredible plot twist and I am excited to see where Brandon takes this.

6. Hoid being hoodwinked by Taravangian was excellent and really helps show that Hoid is not unbeatable.

There's a thread currently near the top about epilogue implications. I know i'm in the minority but i think that there might have been more going on, and Hoid might not have been so completely fooled as it appears.

If nothing else, there's 3 key reasons.

1. Hoid mentioned to Jasnah that once the deal was agreed on he would be free to help fight Odium. As he can't fight, he presumably is referring to information and deceit.

2. He was just monologuing moments ago about making people think you have lived thousands of lives you haven't actually lived.

3. He lost a lot of breath, but seemingly only his short term memories.

I'm not certain he wasn't fooled, but there are a few key things that seem strange here, and i can't help but doubt the assumption we are clearly lead to believe.

Obviously, believe what you will, but you might want to look at that thread if you liked the epilogue.

[Necessary Eagle she/her]

Now that I've had a few days to think about it...

When Oathbringer came out, I was in a sort of daze for a few days because I couldn't reconcile my feelings. There were a lot of parts I had complaints about, but the Sanderlanch was boss. "Always the next step," "It's not a journey if it doesn't have a beginning," "I will protect those I hate even if the one I hate most is myself." I'm still repeating these lines to myself years later, trying to live up to themWith Rhythm of War, I had similar feelings of "I have a lot of problems with the plot"-- but not the "storms, yeah!" feelings at the ending. RoW left me worried about Todd, shocked and upset about Testament, sick feeling in my stomach after the epilogue... sure, Kal swore his fourth oath, but everyone knew what it was going to be; practically knowing it in advance robbed the scene of emotion for me, the same way knowing from WoBs that humans weren't native to Roshar made the Big Reveal of OB fall flat.

As Hoid says, expectations are a story-killer, and I'm sure on further rereads I'll like the good bits better and find the flaws less glaring, the same as happened with OB. But for now, I'm just... in a disappointment daze.

(feel free to jump in and tell me I'm being silly, it helps when other people praise the book to the heavens)

[shadows]

I enjoyed this, but I don't think I enjoyed it as much as I expected.

There was so so much going on, and there's so much to digest which I'm sure will keep everyone entertained for years, but I think it was perhaps all spread just a little too thin between the number of characters we were supposed to care about and the number of cosmere updates, fabrials and universe revelations thrown in. I also think some of it was a bit telegraphed, but I'm not sure I'd blame Brandon as that's more a case of clear building allowing sensible theorycrafting.

Looking back I think my favourite part of the book was Raboniel who was a fascinating and interesting character who actually got the time to be more fleshed out but there were definitely other existing characters who got short changed.

My least favourite part was the pursuer who is one of the single worst villains I can remember and who could have been trimmed out of the book without a worry. When I re-read I know which sections are getting insta-skipped hah.    

The Taravodium surprise was great and opens up some really really interesting questions (is this all according to plan for Cultivation or is this 'i've made a huge mistake'). I have to say I was a bit thrown by him immediately getting one over on Hoid though which felt more like it devalued Rayse and Hoid than elevating big T.

I might get lynched a bit, but I think I'm team #ThanksMoash (sorry Teft i loved you) because we really did need someone to prove what was at stake for the named cast.

Who knows where book 5 goes at this point - there's a lot of stuff to draw to a closing point but lots of it kind of feels like it has to happen either be closed off or concretely pushed into the next phase of its arc rather than be shuffled into the 2nd half.

[Blacksmithki]

2 minutes ago, Necessary Eagle said:

Now that I've had a few days to think about it...

When Oathbringer came out, I was in a sort of daze for a few days because I couldn't reconcile my feelings. There were a lot of parts I had complaints about, but the Sanderlanch was boss. "Always the next step," "It's not a journey if it doesn't have a beginning," "I will protect those I hate even if the one I hate most is myself." I'm still repeating these lines to myself years later, trying to live up to themWith Rhythm of War, I had similar feelings of "I have a lot of problems with the plot"-- but not the "storms, yeah!" feelings at the ending. RoW left me worried about Todd, shocked and upset about Testament, sick feeling in my stomach after the epilogue... sure, Kal swore his fourth oath, but everyone knew what it was going to be; practically knowing it in advance robbed the scene of emotion for me, the same way knowing from WoBs that humans weren't native to Roshar made the Big Reveal of OB fall flat.

As Hoid says, expectations are a story-killer, and I'm sure on further rereads I'll like the good bits better and find the flaws less glaring, the same as happened with OB. But for now, I'm just... in a disappointment daze.

(feel free to jump in and tell me I'm being silly, it helps when other people praise the book to the heavens)

As time goes, you will always remember the parts that stand out as opposed to the parts you felt fall flat.

Someone I talked to said that they were reading WoK. They had previously tried to read it years ago, but got a lot of whiplash at the first few chapters, and how they just jumped so much that after reading the prelude, prologue, chapter 1 and 2, they just put down the book. The thing is, i have absolutely no idea if i felt the same way when i first read it. Books usually work best when they are a bit smoother, and naturally the first time you read any book it's going to be extreme. You'll be disappointed with the things you already knew because you hoped they'd tell you something new, but when you go back through, you'll focus more on what is, not what you hoped would be.

[Kered he/him]

Also, for the Maya "We Chose" seen I yelled "NUH UH" so loud my fiance thought I induced her labor. 

Needless to say, it was an eventful experience in my house throughout reading this book. 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Kered

[Walkerz7]

Rhythm of War: Relationships 

For me, RoW was one of Brandon's most volatile SA books. I still think it was a strong entry into the SA but I do feel that It was a little all over the place. 

I agree with @CaptainRyan, Brandon maybe needs to reevaluate how he treats a SA book and the direction he plans to take the series as a whole. 

I think Brandon has restricted himself by committing to such a complex, intricate and in-depth arc in 5 books. Huge story plots points and character development areas are being skipped over or ignored as a result of trying to fit the Stormlight archives storyline with the greater Cosmere.  

Kaladin and relationships: I don't understand why Kaladins relationships are all happening off-page. Like Kaladin and Lyn? We see no hint of a connection between them in OB but then we find out a year later then suddenly got together after the end of OB so what? was this Kaladin trying to get over Shallan and Lyn was like a rebound hence why it didn't work out? We have no idea how Kaladin feels about Shallan, yes at the end of OB he says that she's chosen Adolin but feelings don't just disappear and Syl was pushing for Shallan and Kaladin to at least talk. For me, the fact that Shallan and Adolins wedding happened off-page was also a huge mistake. It was a perfect time to further develop the relationship of Kal, Adolin and Shallan and get into Kals and Shallans heads to see how they really felt about the whole thing. 

I fully appreciate that romance is not the main aim of these books but relationships are an integral part of being Human and I just don't understand why key relationship events like the wedding were skipped over. I think events like these are key to show that the characters are still trying to live lives in the middle of desolations. For the majority of the books, we see the characters having to deal with hardships, fighting, and betrayal. Events such as the wedding or even Jas's coronation are, in my opinion, just as important as seeing Kaladin fight the fused. 

 

 

[Dareios]

After reading Kaladin's 4th ideal, and with Dawnshard still fresh in my mind, this scene popped into my head:

The Lopen sees someone doing something incomprehensibly ridiculous, and says:
"I accept that there will be those I cannot protect... from The Lopen."
And he gets his shardplate.

[Govir]

3 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Well, that’s pretty much word for word Kal’s oath, so...

So it is, so it is. I’m sure it was turning around in the back of my head from speculation before. But for some reason Teft’s PoV really cemented it for me. Chapter 103. I had been expecting a Windrunner other than Kaladin to say the 4th oath before him, and it seemed like Teft was almost there.

On to something I haven’t seen mentioned (although admittedly I skipped over some of the longer entries here): The rumors are actually true! Jasnah and Wit *are* intimate. I honestly thought the rumors would be just that, so was completely surprised by it.

It was also odd to me with Shallan and Adolin being intimate (even more directly than Jit). It shouldn’t have been, since they’re married, but it was still odd to me when they were taking in bed.

[Innovation]

RoW was an excellent book in all the right ways for me. I realize that others might have differing opinions, but I think this book has some amazing, astounding, bewildering plot twists. We now have new lore, new magic systems, and new plots. However I have a few things I did not like:

• Sending Dalinar and Jasnah away to Emul. This felt like it was done only to get them away from Urithiru, and we got very few chapters from their veiwpoints. However, I did like what we got. 
• The info dump. There is just so much information that just got dropped on us, from lore to light combinations to anti-Investiture to Kelsier of all people being hinted. I love how we got all the information, but it kind of hit me like a train. 
• A minor thing, but I am wondering how Lasting Integrity maintains its gravity alteration. It’s really a small thing, but I found it annoying. Perhaps I am spoiled with Brandon always explaining magic systems. 
• Some of the Pursuers lines were kind of cringey. He spotted some cliche villain lines that I didn’t quite like. Once again a minor thing, but still annoying. 

As @Necessary Eagle has said, I expect I will get over the initial shock and emotions of reading a book like this. I will undoubtedly find it much better on a reread. The book is like a smooth rock that has a few imperfections; you can’t help but notice the flaws, all the while ignoring the perfection it holds. 

[kaellok he/him]

On 11/20/2020 at 0:24 PM, CaptainRyan said:

Other items that irked me:
1. Why did a bunch of side characters even bother going to Shadesmar with Adolin and Shallan? They, literally, did nothing. Adolin saved Notum solo, and Adolin and Shallan handled the whole trial thing without their help. 

6. Venli's near non-participation in everything despite this being "her" book.
7. The Venli/Eshonai flashbacks felt weak. I think I lacked enough connection (pun intended) to the characters and so their flashbacks were less powerful.
 

1. Adolin was the only one who advanced the story of the novel in any way in the Shadesmar group.  Shallan could have been locked in a closet and there would have been zero difference to the Shadesmar expedition or Adolin's trial as a whole, except he'd've been asking "Why couldn't Shallan be here?" instead of "Where is Shallan?  She's usually late, but at least shows up".  Maybe I missed her interacting in any way to help his trial?  He may even have been able to get the information from Kalak based entirely on the treatment and subsequent reaction of Maya during the trial.

For me, the largest problem with the novel is that character arc and story arc should mesh for an impressive climax.  For the third time in a row, Shallan's was a miss.  (Shallan is my favorite character in the Cosmere, the one I relate to the most, so I'm saying this from a place of pained disappointment in the author rather than the character).  Nothing that she did in the entire novel mattered to anything else anybody else was doing anywhere.  There's that potential setup for the Ghostbloods in the next novel, though!  Just like at the end of WoK, WoR, and OB!  So--there's that.

6. I was really confused that this was a Navani book, because I didn't realize that she was getting one.  There's nothing anyone can do to convince me that this is Venli's book.
7. I did actually like the flashback scenes, but I don't think that they added anything much.  With Kaladin, Shallan, and Dalinar we got wide swathes of history for them, seeing them as children and grow into broken adults that helped to explain and inform who they are on-screen now.  I do think that it's funny (but not haha funny) that Venli had so much Younger Sibling Syndrome, being overshadowed by Eshonai, that even in her own book she didn't get to have her own flashbacks but instead had to share.

I've rarely (if ever) read a novel that I enjoyed so much that still left me feeling so profoundly disappointed at the end.  I vaguely remember feeling the exact same way at the end of Oathbringer, except that there were a lot of scenes and moments that stood out to me at the time that are still great now.  And when I finished my recent re-read of it, none of the things that had bothered me originally were still there. 

But I quite honestly don't have any stand-out moments from RoW.  There's a lot of small moments, like Dabbid talking, that were peppered throughout that kept me engrossed and unable to put it down.  Those small moments are great, and masterfully tossed in--a lot of times, like that one with Dabbid, waiting so long to happen that you think it won't.  And then it just does.  However, there was no moment when Kaladin leaps across the chasm to the Tower, there was no Chasm scene, there was no Unity.  The Trial was good, but pretty heavily foreshadowed and Maya's powerful moment (and it was! it was so powerful!) is just a reskinned "YOU CANNOT HAVE MY PAIN!" moment.  I think that there was just too much plot and not enough story, and even given the months of time that the book covers, it felt like we only spent a little bit of time to let the characters sit and breathe and be (edited to add: but those moments when we did get were great!)

Hoping that I feel differently in a year or two when I do a re-read.

Edited December 15, 2020 by kaellok

[+Kapin]

Just finished a few hours ago and read through what everyone has said. This one hit me harder emotionally than Oathbringer. Kaladin and Shallan struggling and saying how tired they both were really hit home with how I've been feeling lately. It's very much a middle book, but there was so much to digest. Some immediate thoughts:

• Design is the best and is perfect. I can see why Brandon said chapter 80 was his favourite. It was amazing.
• New Odium is terrifying. Like absolutely terrifying
• Ishar's spren thing is straight out of a horror novel
• The whole metal interations with gems thing was actually awesome. Really curious what gold metals would do for fabrials.
• I don't care how predictable it was. Kaladin swearing the ideal was absolutely perfect and brought tears to my eyes
• I only have profanities for Moash
• I'm almost 100% sure Cultivation is a Dragon from the hinting of many forms after Rayse dies and the mention of there being a dragon on Roshar

There's probably more, but that was a journey. Definitely not re-reading it until we have a release date for book 5 but I want to see how much my thoughts change with the world changing so much.

[ftl]

When Shallan continues not telling anyone about her involvement with the Ghostbloods in part 1... oh no. Poor girl.

When I saw Sja-anat's name as an interlude POV... OMG.

When I saw that all the cryptics' names were "Pattern", just with different intonations (because of course, they're different patterns)... LOL

When Taravangian describes his plan to betray Dalinar in Emul... hahaha, no, not gonna happen, bastard. You're gonna have a super-compassionate day and storm it up, I bet. ...and then he did have a compassionate day. And still went through with the storming betrayal.

When Shallan is training the lightweavers, and Radiant is uncertain about the lightweaver spy being among their agents... yeah, that's when I made up my mind, Radiant killed Ialai. ...yep, and their interactions in Shadesmar, when Radiant feels guilty when Veil is chastised for taking control. Yep. Continued believing that even when Mraize mentioned corrupted gloryspren and implicated Beryl, it must have been a trick by Mraize. Continued believing that even as Pattern seemed to be a traitor. Turned out right.

Kaladin inventing the field of mental health treatments... I did not see that coming! But hell yeah, you go!

The part 2 epigraphs, canonizing lots of the Shards - I did NOT expect that. Should have.

And of course, Adolin and Maya are adorable.

I did not see where that new deadeye cryptic was gonna tie in. I figured that spren would be the reason Adolin's mission crashed and burned; I was so caught off guard when it was Shallan's first spren!

The Fused taking Urithiru caught me by surprise. I thought the fight for Urithiru would be a climax, so I expected the plotting to last to part 5 and end with a big fight where the radiants won. I did *not* expect the Fused to take the tower immediately, and then for Navani, Venli, and Kal to have an insurgency over the course of the rest of the books.

Lift being confirmed to use Lifelight (what we'd previously called cultivationlight) - yep, called it.

The moment when Mraize turned explicitly evil - working with the Fused, caging Lift - was a surprise. Mraize and the Ghostbloods had lured me into the same complacency they lured Shallan into, of being kind of sneaky and ruthless but maybe not that evil... ...and then as soon as the Radiants weren't in charge of the tower, they immediately caged and sold off Lift. ...and the final reveals about how Thaidakar was the Lord of Scars, a cognitive shadow, and was punched by hoid... Kelsier??

Eshonai and Venli's flashbacks didn't really do much for me this book. Yeah, it was good to see Ulim's scheming and plotting, but I didn't feel it gave me that much new info, and not that much new insight into Venli either. It seemed a poor imitation of Dalinar's flashbacks in Oathbringer (horrible deeds in the past, getting better now).

Taravangian killing Odium with Nightblood - well, in hindsight it was of course foreshadowed. That Taravangian on compassionate days could outwit odium so much better than Smart T. That he even PLANNED to get Szeth and Odium in the same room to see what happens. That Harmony, in the epigraphs, even called out that the shard Odium was the real danger, not Rayse, despite what the rest of the Shards think. And then T did it.  And I did NOT expect Rayse to die here, I expected that to be the climax of book 5. (Again, like with the Urithiru plot, I keep expecting things to take longer than they do!)

Kaladin's oath, though, happened exactly when I expected it, and it was awesome. And it managed to surprise me, because I'd thought it would be something more complicated than just "accept the ones I can't protect", so ironically, the simple straightforward guess that everyone had was the one that caught me off guard and surprised me.

Did Shallan speak her fourth? I can't tell. Did Dalinar?

We're gonna have a cosmere full of anti-villains, aren't we? Kelsier leading Ghostbloods, probably with some noble-sounding justifications for what he's doing. Taravangian trying to Save Everyone by conquering and killing everyone. Man.

[Nef]

Its clear we all sit somewhere on a spectrum; some of us find more enjoyment in characterisation/character interaction and others lean towards world-building/lore etc. The Stormlight books also fit on the spectrum. For TWoK and WoR, being the first books, there was more character work as the characters had to be fleshed out by necessity.

With the characters established, the pendulum has swung more towards world building and lore.

Some of the character stuff is clearly stated rather than shown eg. We know Kaladin and Jasnah don't get along, but we've only had a short interaction between the two in OB, other than that we get a few sentences throughout RoW stating the fact. On the other hand we had a more space dedicated to fabrials, callouts to the greater cosmere etc compared to previous entries in the series.

That's said, we're still getting good character work, for example chapter 12 spent time establishing the Kaladin-Adolin-Shallan friendship.

Personally, I also prefer a balance more towards characterisation (more chapters like chapter 12) but I can understand how RoW is some peoples' favourite entry in the series. In fact, even though I don't read other series in the cosmere, I've found myself researching on coppermind because, give i'm invested in the characters, I also care about the world they live in.

[ftl]

I think I'm in a kind of weird space on that (but maybe others are in the same place). The worldbuilding and secrets are the most interesting things to think about, so when I'm theorizing and thinking about things, that's what always comes to mind. But looking back at what actually gave me the most enjoyment when reading, it's always the character growth moments. So it's both. They activate different parts of my reading-brain.

[Khornate]

I know Moash gets a lot of hate here, but to me he's always been a really fun character and a really compelling villain. That "I don't regret murdering Teft, but I regret feeling bad about it" moment near the end of RoW was so comically villainous that it made me laugh. I hope BS doesn't give him a redemption arc, if only so we can see the ridiculous lengths Moash goes to to justify why he's right. If he makes it to book 10, I can see it now: "Sure, I killed most of the population. But I don't regret it at all, because a ligheteyes was mean to me once".

I'm glad Wit/Hoid is actually playing a role in the story now, instead of being a minor background easter egg that occasionally provides advice.

We've all suspected or outright known for a while that Shardplate was made from lesser spren (this has been on the wiki for years now), but do we know which variety of lesser spren are associated with each order? Windspren for Windrunners, probably Creationspren for Lightweavers, probably Lifespren for Edgedancers. Logicspren for Elsecallers, maybe? Is there a thread somewhere for this?  

[Jescape]

13 hours ago, CaptainRyan said:

I could go on and on about how Sanderson keeps pushing for his plot points, his "I have been dreaming of this scene for 20 years" moments, instead of giving us a well-paced narrative that does its cast of incredible characters justice. Too much, in my opinion, is being sacrificed to keep "on schedule" instead of allowing the story to go where it needs to go in order to not just be incredible in a "this plot has cool twists and turns" way, but also in maintaining a satisfying narrative overall

Now see I get some of what you are saying, but I don't think it's because he wants to stay on schedule or keep to the 10 books total thing.  I think it has much more to do with the constraints of keeping each book to a reasonable physical size.  Because realistically speaking they can only be so big and they're already pushing that limit, like I think I read somewhere that their manufacturer was worried about being able to print/bind a book with so many pages correctly.  This leaves him with the choice of cutting things, making a book that is too big for a lot of people (physically not mentally) or splitting up books by character and writing about what one group is doing in one book and what another group is doing in a separate book with the events of both taking place at the same chronological time ala GRRM; and personally I hate when authors do that.  I mean maybe some people prefer that but to me it sucks, especially if the series isn't yet completed it makes it harder to follow and I almost inevitably enjoy whichever one comes out second less, no matter how good it is. I mean I get it I would love more of those scenes too (and if he ever releases them as extras or something I'll be over them *hint hint*) but not at the cost of keeping the books in chronological order sans flashbacks.

I will however give you points 4&5.  It would have been awesome to see Jasnah vs skybreakers and we really should have gotten to see more of what the dustbringers were up to.  But I wouldn't be so quick to write off the importance of Emul just yet .

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

I also don't like the Pursuer

What a pointless character. Sometimes I feel Kaladin is favorite Sanderson character and he feels he need to always give a plot of many chapters and significance to him. I thought Adolin was going to be the pointless POV of this book, but honestly Kaladin is by far the character with the weakest storyline in the series in both Oathbringer and Rhythm of War

Kaladin role in this book should be far far minor and personal. He wouldn't even be fighting, or hiding. I'm my opinion, he had to be the minor character of Group 1, getting only a few viewpoints before swearing his fourth ideal 

To be honest he's swearing the fourth ideal or not was not even important to save Urithiru. In the moment Navani bonded the sibling and the Radiants awaken everything was going to be fine already

Sanderson now set him up for an even more stupid plot (helping Ishar mental healthy? Wtf). I also don't like the prospect of him joining Szeth in his pilgrimage, just doesn't make any sense for me.

Why not admit the character importance stopped in Words of Radiance? Kaladin keeps getting much more plot importance than needed even when the story is not about him. I would forgive it, if his plot were at least interesting and revealing, but they are not

For instance Shallan arc was good to increase the book scope and lore (she found a Herald, went to Last Integrity, painted the Truespren and discovered about Ba-ado-Mishiran).

Kaladin arcs was completely useless. He crawled in Urithiru for 300 pages and swore his 4th ideal when he doesn't even need to. Honestly you could remove him and I'm sure Navani, Venli and Lift could make the plot work just fine. Underwhelming 

Edited November 21, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[WindJogger]

If I am to give a reaction after my first read, I would say that it is my least favorite Stormlight book, I did enjoy it, and I recognize that there was a LOT, and I mean a LOT that went down, and needed to go down in order to set things up for book 5. I may change my mind on the book after reading it a couple more times as I felt that I was being yanked from one storyline to another just when I was starting to become engaged with it; I think that after reading it at least once more, I will be familiar enough with all storylines so as to follow it better. 

[Ramona Tehradin she/her]

2 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I also don't like the Pursuer

What a pointless character. Sometimes I feel Kaladin is favorite Sanderson character and he feels he need to always give a plot of many chapters and significance to him. I thought Adolin was going to be the pointless POV of this book, but honestly Kaladin is by far the character with the weakest storyline in the series in both Oathbringer and Rhythm of War

Kaladin role in this book should be far far minor and personal. He wouldn't even be fighting, or hiding. I'm my opinion, he had to be the minor character of Group 1, getting only a few viewpoints before swearing his fourth ideal 

To be honest he's swearing the fourth ideal or not was not even important to save Urithiru. In the moment Navani bonded the sibling and the Radiants awaken everything was going to be fine already

Sanderson now set him up for an even more stupid plot (helping Ishar mental healthy? Wtf). I also don't like the prospect of him joining Szeth in his pilgrimage, just doesn't make any sense for me.

Why not admit the character importance stopped in Words of Radiance? Kaladin keeps getting much more plot importance than needed even when the story is not about him. I would forgive it, if his plot were at least interesting and revealing, but they are not

For instance Shallan arc was good to increase the book scope and lore (she found a Herald, went to Last Integrity, painted the Truespren and discovered about Ba-ado-Mishiran).

Kaladin arcs was completely useless. He crawled in Urithiru for 300 pages and swore his 4th ideal when he doesn't even need to. Honestly you could remove him and I'm sure Navani, Venli and Lift could make the plot work just fine. Underwhelming 

We are going to have different opinions, your Passion for disliking Kaladin has been heard but unfortunately, his arc was the best- the core of Rhythm of War. For me, he's the best character of Stormlight Archive and I pretty much believe in same spectrum of your 2nd line. 

 

 

 

 

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

41 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

We are going to have different opinions, your Passion for disliking Kaladin has been heard but unfortunately, his arc was the best- the core of Rhythm of War. For me, he's the best character of Stormlight Archive and I pretty much believe in same spectrum of your 2nd line. 

His arc was by no means the core of this book. This book main arc was a book about Navani studying Light and bonding the Sibling in the process, this is what the book was about. You can remove Kaladin entirely and it won't affect the narrative of any other character in the book 

I understand Kaladin is a fan favorite, but this alone isnt enough for him sustain a narrative. He's not as attached to the war and its events as, let's say, Dalinar who is the head of Alliance and is directly interacting with Odium. He can't be like Shallan who live between two worlds and discover secrets from Cosmere and beyond. He can't be the bridge to unit Singers and Humans like Venli or Rlain. He's not attached to the deep secrets involving the Desolations, Heralds and the gods. He refounded the order of Windrunners and was important to prove how darkeyes and lighteyes can work together, but it's over now

I understand the concern about too much things happening at the same time and the lack of time to develop personal relationships in the same level of book 1 and 2, but that's because books 1 and 2 barely have 3 main characters to develop, now we have a dozen. What happened with Venli this book (it was supposed to be her book and she turned out to be pretty much a secondary POV of Navani's arc) happened because Sanderson is refusing to decrease screen time of characters that doesn't have much to do now (Adolin and Kaladin, to be exactly)

 

[Ramona Tehradin she/her]

10 minutes ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

His arc was by no means the core of this book. This book main arc was a book about Navani studying Light and bonding the Sibling in the process, this is what the book was about. You can remove Kaladin entirely and it won't affect the narrative of any other character in the book 

I understand Kaladin is a fan favorite, but this alone isnt enough for him sustain a narrative. He's not as attached to the war and its events as, let's say, Dalinar who is the head of Alliance and is directly interacting with Odium. He can't be like Shallan who live between two worlds and discover secrets from Cosmere and beyond. He can't be the bridge to unit Singers and Humans like Venli or Rlain. He's not attached to the deep secrets involving the Desolations, Heralds and the gods. He refounded the order of Windrunners and was important to prove how darkeyes and lighteyes can work together, but it's over now

I understand the concern about too much things happening at the same time and the lack of time to develop personal relationships in the same level of book 1 and 2, but that's because books 1 and 2 barely have 3 main characters to develop, now we have a dozen. What happened with Venli this book (it was supposed to be her book and she turned out to be pretty much a secondary POV of Navani's arc) happened because Sanderson is refusing to decrease screen time of characters that doesn't have much to do now (Adolin and Kaladin, to be exactly)

 

Forgive me, I used the wrong vocabulary here. 

I meant his arc was one of the core aspects of this book because he gets second most screentime after Navani. See, we have varied opinions of our characters but I don't think BS will write something which would be waste for his plot. It might not satisfy us, for example I was left unappeased by Shallan-Adolin arc but that is absolutely integral to our story. It might not be our passion, but clearly it is needed for the story. And removing Kaladin is going to bring castastrophic disability to this book because by now, he's become more than just a Highmarshal but I'm not gonna spend words and time explaining the obvious. 

Brandon decided to explore the theme of mental illness in this book, something which has never been delved in many fantasy novels and I commend him for doing something so fresh and unique. You can't keep fighting and shrugging the screams and killing off just like that without facing the eventual blunt trauma. No book addresses this. This book does and that was amazing. Some of us prefer action, some prefer emotional aspects and some prefer nail-biting intense moments. This book had it all. And deep down, we all are bound by our similar bond for being Sanderson fans. 

[IcaroRibeiro he/him]

15 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

Forgive me, I used the wrong vocabulary here. 

I meant his arc was one of the core aspects of this book because he gets second most screentime after Navani. See, we have varied opinions of our characters but I don't think BS will write something which would be waste for his plot. It might not satisfy us, for example I was left unappeased by Shallan-Adolin arc but that is absolutely integral to our story. It might not be our passion, but clearly it is needed for the story. And removing Kaladin is going to bring castastrophic disability to this book because by now, he's become more than just a Highmarshal but I'm not gonna spend words and time explaining the obvious. 

Brandon decided to explore the theme of mental illness in this book, something which has never been delved in many fantasy novels and I commend him for doing something so fresh and unique. You can't keep fighting and shrugging the screams and killing off just like that without facing the eventual blunt trauma. No book addresses this. This book does and that was amazing. Some of us prefer action, some prefer emotional aspects and some prefer nail-biting intense moments. This book had it all. And deep down, we all are bound by our similar bond for being Sanderson fans. 

I don't disagree, the point is the scope of this book is so far the biggest of the series, and I understand why people found it rushed and shallow compared to books 1 and 2

I just stated that I found Kaladin arc pointless compared to other POV characters. His current arc does not have the same sense of urgency and importance in the middle of a worldwide war that can turn human as a non-dominant specie of a Roshar

In doing so much POV of heavy importance he's risking not giving enough time screen to that POVs and, on this book, I felt Venli was the most sacrificed character and If have to choose a character to diminish in order to give her more time this character was going to be Kaladin

Besides half of Kaladim chapters were not about him struggling against mental illness, rather him fighting and hiding again and again. The Pursuer looks a character created only to give Kaladin more fighting scenes as otherwise Urithiru wasn't going to have much action

Edited November 21, 2020 by IcaroRibeiro

[Cheat Commando he/him]

Just finished! 

Teft!! Actually got a little teary eyed

Ishar being super creepy with the spren creeped me out. What's the deal with that?

Ugh, was very much hoping for Taravangian to die. Not excited for him as the new Odium.

Oh, snap, Wit, you got cocky. Good job. That legitimately frightens me.

Thaidakar is now ID'd. I'm so excited for "The Lost Metal!"

Also, very pleased with Adolin, Shallan, Pattern, and Maya' plot line. Enjoyed that a lot!

Loved the anti-Light lore!!

Edited November 21, 2020 by Cheat Commando
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