Mist and stormlight

[mathiau he/him]

3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Very possibly. He should be able to channel it though, even if not into himself.

I was thinking more that if he could capture Mist, he could use that to solve the Connection problem with Investiture. Even if he ends up selling Storm/Voidlight, he could do all the experiments at home under his direct supervision. Why do it on Roshar? Is Roshar the key to the Connection issue? More accurately, does Thaidakar think it is?

The only people currently able use light are surgebinders and returned, the first are locked on Roshar and the second in very short supply and it's likely they're needed for any experiment. Also it was never said the ghostbloods are experimenting on Roshar, Mraize could just be preparing the trade routes and sending spheres to Roshar.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Just now, mathiau said:

The only people currently able use light are surgebinders and returned, the first are locked on Roshar and the second in very short supply and it's likely they're needed for any experiment. Also it was never said the ghostbloods are experimenting on Roshar, Mraize could just be preparing the trade routes and sending spheres to Roshar.

Indications are that they need something from Roshar to solve the Connection problem - something to with BAM or her gemstone. And that it’s Thaidakar’s problem they’re really there to solve.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

25 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Also we've seen the mist transform people into mistings in Era 1

No. Mists dont transform them, mists SNAP them. They were Mistings before, they just didnt know that.

25 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Why does Lift's eyes stays white when she uses lifelight to power her surges? She's using an investiture from another shard to power her abilities which is the definition of corrupting investiture, same with Renarin's voidbinding powered by stormlight and Venli's surges with voidlight. Nightblood literally turn everything he touch to corrupted breaths, how does feeding him light don't create any red?

Why can you use both stormlight and towerlight to power Urithiru's fabrials?

Why can you use pure stormlight to regrow plates made form Koravellium-Tanavatium allow?

Intent is important.

Lift still is connected to both Cultivation and Honor because her Spren is. Her powers are normal, just her body isnt normal, se she need different fuel.

Also Renarin, his Spren still is from Honor and Cultivation mostly. Yes, spren is Red, but his Intent remains with Honor/Cultivation.

Venli can use Stormlight because her Spren is from Honor, and Voidlight because her other spren is from Odium. And power inside her cancot recognise witch Surges she uses.

Not sure Nightblood turns everything into corrupted Breaths. Yes, it was made with Breaths, but this is not what it is now. We also know it contains not just Endowments Investiture, but also Ruins and this is definitly not Breaths.

All spren are from both Cultivation and Honor, so they are able to feed themselves with power of both parrents.  Stormlight is simply more accessable.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Bzhydack

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 hours ago, mathiau said:

We've never seen anyone try to put them in nicrosilmind and we know it'd work with breaths.

Do you have a source? The only question I can find on storing Breath in nicrosil was RAFO'd.

[mathiau he/him]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Do you have a source? The only question I can find on storing Breath in nicrosil was RAFO'd.

I do

Quote

kingbirdy (paraphrased)

Could Feruchemical nicrosil be used to store other Invested abilities, such as a Returned Breath or the abilities of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that's possible.

DragonCon 2016 (Sept. 4, 2016)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

6 hours ago, mathiau said:

I do

Thanks! Big thing there is: a divine Breath is definitely a different situation from a normal Breath for this topic, and an answer for one doesn't automatically answer for the other. For example, a spike can probably steal a divine Breath, but probably not a normal one. So I don't feel we can actually say from that that a Breath is storeable.

Quote

Questioner

With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths, when they get to the other planets?

Brandon Sanderson

So spikes rip off pieces of the soul and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul. You could maybe get a divine Breath but I haven't really decided on regular Breaths, they're kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm which is not a thing that spikes are dealing with. Divine Breath, potentially, because that's something that's actually melding onto your soul. But, you know, when you're using the Breaths they reach through to the Spiritual Realm so, maybe if you got it while the Breaths were kinetic, right, while you're using them, then you might be able to rip them off. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that one.

Bystander

There's still things to decide upon.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah there's still things, like I have to kind of see. My instinct says no right now. But, you know, how they interact is not something that I have-- Yeah.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

[mathiau he/him]

7 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Thanks! Big thing there is: a divine Breath is definitely a different situation from a normal Breath for this topic, and an answer for one doesn't automatically answer for the other. For example, a spike can probably steal a divine Breath, but probably not a normal one. So I don't feel we can actually say from that that a Breath is storeable.

Ah, yes that's a problem. I didn't find anyone asking Brandon whether Breathes could be stored, he RAFO'd whether they was compoundable four years ago it might be worth asking again.

[StanLemon]

Despite Stormlight, Mists, and Breaths all being gaseous states of Investiture they still have different properties. Just like how different Godmetals have different properties. It may very well not be possible to use the Mists like Stormlight, at least not without a great deal of effort. For example, all of the excess Investiture on Roshar makes people healthier while there is no evidence that happens from the Mists

[Treamayne]

I'm enjoying the discussion and don't have much to add until I can get some time to mull things over. However, I thought it might be relevant to post some references for the discussion:

The Dor, behaving as light upon entering the physical realm (even if it behaves more like plasma in the Cognitive Realm):

Quote

Elantris Ch. 62
Now, with Elantris somehow feeding the Aons’ strength, lines no longer simply appeared in the air when he drew—they exploded. Light streamed from the Aon, as if his fingers were ripping tiny holes through a mighty dam, allowing only some of the water to squirt through.

The Scardrian Mists, being breathed in like Stormlight:

Quote

HoA Ch. 72
Please, she thought, reaching out to the mists with one final plea. They felt so familiar all of a sudden. Where had she felt that feeling before? Where did she know them?

From the Well of Ascension, of course, a voice whispered in her head. It’s the same power, after all. Solid in the metal you fed to Elend. Liquid in the pool you burned. And vapor in the air, confined to night. Hiding you. Protecting you.

Giving you power!

Vin gasped, drawing in breath—a breath that sucked in the mists. 

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Treamayne

[mathiau he/him]

3 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I'm enjoying the discussion and don;t have much to add until I can get some time to mull things over. However, I thought it might be relevant to post some references for the discussion:

The Dor, behaving as light upon entering the physical realm (even if it behaves more like plasma in the Cognitive Realm):

 

There's a chance it's just be that the Aon being stronger also makes it brighter, but probably not. Paradoxically the Dor's gaseous form being literal light makes it more different from Lights than the Mists and Breaths, about as much as Taldain's sunlight actually.

Quote

The Scardrian Mists, being breathed in like Stormlight:

So the "breath in" thing should work with nearly all gaseous investiture, good to know.

[Leuthie]

On 1/21/2021 at 0:06 PM, mathiau said:

So the "breath in" thing should work with nearly all gaseous investiture, good to know.

Vin had a Connection, blocked by Ruin's earring.

Radiants have a Connection through their Nahel Bond to specific spren.

The big question: Is the Connection specific to Investiture type? Can a Radiant Connection facilitate breathing in the mists? Could Vin breath in Stormlight? I think Vasher/Zahel answers that question, using Stormlight to fuel his Returned body (much less morally grey than using Breath).

[+Bzhydack he/him]

7 hours ago, Leuthie said:

The big question: Is the Connection specific to Investiture type? Can a Radiant Connection facilitate breathing in the mists? Could Vin breath in Stormlight? I think Vasher/Zahel answers that question, using Stormlight to fuel his Returned body (much less morally grey than using Breath).

Yes, is specific. You need to be Connected to particular Shard.

Radiants cannot breath Voidlight. Even Renarin. Lift cannot breath Stormlight. Hemalurgists cannot use Mists. And Vasher can feed on Stormlight (he has to learn this) still cannot Awaken with it. We know Returned can fuel his Body with any Investiture.