Let's talk about Ulim

[bmcclure7]

On 2/12/2021 at 10:59 AM, mathiau said:

Corrupted windsprens act nothing like him so probably not

 Equivalent not corrupted

[bjmgeek he/him]

On 2/16/2021 at 8:11 PM, honorblades said:

I totally agree. I thought this during basically the entire time Kelek was onscreen in RoW - I couldn't help but think that this guy talks like he is from modern day Earth. I sort of imagined him just smacking gum the entire time he was talking, too (that's not canon tho obviously haha). 

We see Wayne chewing gum...

[Treamayne]

On 2/12/2021 at 4:11 PM, teknopathetic said:

I mean, I don't think Ulim and Syl are thaaaat different. Syl is more playful about it, but she does go on about how old and gross some humans look, or when someone is being stupid or unreasonable. Syl assumes people are trying their best, while Ulim assumes everyone is at their worst. Syl is curious while Ulim is dismissive. They seem somewhat similar (Unlike a Cryptic to Ulim or an Inkspren to Ulim).

On 2/12/2021 at 0:22 PM, mdross81 said:

I feel like it likely has something to do with Ulim’s form as moving lightning, given that that is also how Venli is able to pull the stormspren through later on.

I got it. They get a giant tuning fork/lightning rod made of raysium on a boat out in the ocean and just suck him down into the gem. 

On 2/12/2021 at 0:04 PM, KSub said:

I think it's something along these lines.

He is red so there's a good chance he is a corrupted honor spren. Or possibly a piece of the Everstorm that Odium splintered long ago and has since gained sentience.

While I do not think Ulim is specifically a corrupted Honorspren, I do think that his relation to Stormspren is similar to the relationship between Honorspren and Windspren. So, if my reasoning is close that might make him a HateSpren? The Higher spren Splinter of Odium?

 

 

[Stonerward]

Not sure how appropriate this is to this post but similar to how there are 10 radiant spren that can form the nahel bond to form surgebinders my theory is that there are 9 sapient spren of Odium of which Ulim is one of these, maybe a Hatespren or something similar. 

Now this is where it goes off the rails a bit as I think that Odium has actually used his spren to fuse to the cognitive shadows of the singers and that's where their name comes from and not the fusing to singers (it just doesn't seem permanent enough to me to warrant calling them fused) and also explains how they have access to the surges. 

[ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ Male]

It could also represent how they are fused very much with Odium. Robeniel talks about that.

[bmcclure7]

On 8/30/2023 at 5:07 AM, Treamayne said:

While I do not think Ulim is specifically a corrupted Honorspren, I do think that his relation to Stormspren is similar to the relationship between Honorspren and Windspren. So, if my reasoning is close that might make him a HateSpren? The Higher spren Splinter of Odium?

 

 

This is also my thoughts.  I think each Spren will be matched by a similar void Spren.  Similarly as each rythm is matched to a new Rythm.  

[Cauthon104]

As far as HOW Ulim got to Roshar, I had a theory about Gavilar using rudimentary rockets to travel between the planets.

If you remember in the ROW prologue, when Navani eavesdrops on Gavilar and the two Heralds (Nale and Kelek), she hears one of the Heralds say, "...Being able to bring them back and forth from Braize doesn't mean anything.  It's too close to be a relevant distance."  She then hears her husband say, "It was impossible a few short years ago.  This is proof.  The Connection is not severed, and the box allows for travel.  Not yet as far as you'd like, but we must start the journey somewhere."

My theory is that Gavilar has used his various connections to worldhoppers to either use, or build a basic rocket ship, probably unmanned, to ferry voidspren back and forth from Braize.  This would fit with the idea that it's incredibly expensive/difficult to get voidspren in large numbers, like Axindweth and Venli both mention later.  

As far as the Heralds are concerned, Kelek wants out of the Roshar system BAD.  He's desperate, but his Connection to the Oathpact and his incredible amounts of investiture make worldhopping by way of Shadesmar impossible.  So maybe his next best bet would be physically flying to another system?  "There's more here, Nale!  This is important!  I want out.  This is the only way..."  Nale might want out as well, or he may be simply curious.  He may also just be spying on the whole project to see when he needs to put a stop to it, as evidenced by his interaction with Venli shortly after the meeting with Gavilar takes place.

Anyway, that's my crackpot theory.  Feel free to punch holes in it.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Cauthon104 said:

As far as HOW Ulim got to Roshar, I had a theory about Gavilar using rudimentary rockets to travel between the planets.

Roshar has no rocket technology. There are no rockets in Cosmere at that moment as far as we know. Gavilar can't have rockets out of nowhere. What kind of fuel would he use? 

7 minutes ago, Cauthon104 said:

If you remember in the ROW prologue, when Navani eavesdrops on Gavilar and the two Heralds (Nale and Kelek), she hears one of the Heralds say, "...Being able to bring them back and forth from Braize doesn't mean anything.  It's too close to be a relevant distance."  She then hears her husband say, "It was impossible a few short years ago.  This is proof.  The Connection is not severed, and the box allows for travel.  Not yet as far as you'd like, but we must start the journey somewhere."

The box mentioned here was likely an aluminum box, or some invention similar to Seon box used by Ghostbloods in RoW, which allowed you to put gemstones filled with Voidspren or Voidlight in the box, transport it via the Shadesmar into Roshar without severing Connection.  Ulim was confirmed to come from the Storm surrounding Braize in CR (the Cognitive Realm) - he was captured in CR and transported in CR to Roshar. RoW ch 86:

Quote

She didn’t quite understand his explanations of what was happening. But she knew a storm was mounting in Shadesmar. In fact, the storm had been building for generations—growing in fury, intensity. It barred the way to Damnation.
That storm was where Ulim had originally come from. 

Catching spren in Braize's Shadesmare, transporting them from there in and using aluminum would be incredibly difficult and expensive. Aluminum is a very rare and expensive metal, it isn't easy to get or Roshar. Then add to it your own ship and crew in CR, as you want to remain discreet, and the time it takes to travel to the border of Braize, where an incredibly dangerous barrier storm is ever present, and the costs and difficulties are mounting on. Not to mention actually attracting Voidspren with proper stimuli to catch them in gemstones. That's why it's hard, or at least that's one possibility.

11 minutes ago, Cauthon104 said:

So maybe his next best bet would be physically flying to another system?

No, they can't leave even in the Physical Realm. Splinters and Cognitive Shadows are tied to the area, no matter if they're in the Cognitive or Physical Realm, they can't leave it. Nale said the distance is not significant because both spren and Heralds aren't bound just to the planet Roshar, but to the whole Rosharan system, which Braize is a part of. Heralds can travel to Braize easily, but not out of the system.

Spoiler

Questioner

Have we seen cameos of Heralds on other Shardworlds?

Brandon Sanderson

The Heralds are tied to the system by the magic that permeates them. They could not leave.

Questioner

I thought I saw someone but I guess not.

Brandon Sanderson

It’s part of the magic. Some would call them Cognitive Shadows, right? Whether they are or not. "Cognitive Shadow" is a very ambiguous term in the cosmere. It means, basically your soul-- It's the same thing with petrification, right? Investiture replaced your soul, and permeated your soul, and your soul continues to exist, but... you are usually Invested with something, that's tied, and you're basically like pure Investiture then. You're tied to the thing you're Connected to. Most of the things that you're gonna see with that, travelling is going to be very difficult, unless you know how to do it. You have seen people do it.

Questioner

Who?

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher... You have seen people do it. But anyone who's got-- yeah.

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Spoiler

ZuperzubS

Hi Brandon, just to double check my understanding of things, Odium is still mostly bound on Braize right? Just that he can influence things on Roshar because of proximity?

Brandon Sanderson

I treat Braize, Ashyn, and Roshar as if they were almost one entity for a lot of Identity/Connection related issues. It's more than proximity, though proximity leads to it. We on Earth, I feel, would consider the moon and even Mars to be "ours" so to speak, part of our family of planets. Odium's binding, and that of the Heralds/Fused encompasses Roshar and Ashyn. There are some subtle distinctions, but for the most part, being bound on Braize is the same as being bound on Roshar.

mraize7

So Shadesmar is only from Roshar or from the three planets??

Brandon Sanderson

You can reach all three through Shadesmar, with a much shorter trip than to other systems. But the map we provide so far is only Roshar.

Phantine

Have you come up with a name for their star? It'd be easier to refer to all three by calling it the [???]ar/[sol]ar system instead of the Rosharan/[Earth]an system like we do now.

Brandon Sanderson

By people in world, it's being referred to as the Rosharan system. This is kind of confusing to us, because we focus on the suns to orient what makes a system. But in the cosmere, they travel directly to planets, and so the biggest trading planet becomes the source of naming conventions in most places. I agree it's a little confusing for us, but I believe it's the way it would naturally arise for them.

Uth-gnar

On the topic of the Rosharan solar system, do we get to learn about the significance of the 10 gas giants? We’re they there before the shards ever made their home there? Is that the ‘origin’ of the significance, in the context of the cosmere's natural laws?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, I'm afraid.

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