Mid-Range Game 51: Come On Down To Irontown

[Archer he/him]

2 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I am a clear, excellent, non-corrupt person that you should definitely vote for. 

In-character, I have zero trust in you now :P. Never trust anyone who asks to be trusted. 

1 hour ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Eh…yes and no? I’ve always had distaste for approaches which clear people for suspicious or suboptimal behaviour, as it’s in the interest of the village to look and behave like villagers, which includes altruism and looking for other people to trust, but in this case I agree; the first person everyone should want elected is themselves.  (Except perhaps the Tineye or Watchman, but that’s a separate discussion.) That being said, the way this game operates, you have to find someone else to trust, or your participation is meaningless. So those altruistic people will be the ones advancing the game if everyone else is just saying “hey, look at me, elect me!”  PLEASE

This discussion took up probably half of MR38b over whether Bard could be trusted, who had helped Corrupted!Ulmo!Stink get onto the Council via a last-minute vote, and surprisingly the people who were most dogmatic on this point were evil. (Including me. ) So while I get the basic idea behind this, and probably wouldn’t put anyone up for election *immediately* after they voted in an elim, we should have some flexibility or the Elims can win just by manipulating all the villagers onto a teammate, staying off themselves, and then getting elected by staying in the smaller pool of more “trusted” players. 

In the interest of not cleaning said bathroom with my creaking back and arthritic hands, Steeldancer. (This vote obviously subject to change.) And Striker, because why not. YOUR COOPERATION COMMA 

I see that white text. Do we have telegraphs in Mist born Era 1?

I really like TJ's opening post. It was solid analysis and helpful contributions. I feel like an elim wouldn't challenge it, so I appreciate that you did. You seem just as competent as I expect Tani to be, so I'd support you for village leader if it looked possible. I want you alive though to help out at least until the back half of the game.

I hadn't realized this format had already been run on the Shard, so that's nice. I have a thread I can reference. My google of Avalon strategy just turned up some Reddit threads that didn't match our format exactly. 

Not sure I like that Steeldancer vote. Seems unjustified. 

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

*smirks in dynamic infodump exit*

Obviously can't confirm or deny this but I will remind players that this current game is a fusion of the MR38 election system and QF40 ruleset, so it is not guaranteed to function as the predecessors do - or more importantly, as a standard SE game does.

Please also be reminded that both Elected Villagers and Elims will share a doc so do be careful about what information you share even after Election.

True mindgames never end. 

So can the elected elims help choose who the elims guess is the Tineye? I thought they couldn't contact their team

52 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

What if we all just claimed Tineye, that way the elims will have absolutely no idea who actually is the Tineye. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Anyway

As cool as it is that y'all are voting for me, it would be a little sad if I join this game and immediately get kicked out because everyone trusts me.  Any chance I can persuade you all to vote me for Worker Leader?

Anyway, I think I'm going to vote for Archer for election, and Mat for Worker Leader. Archer because I like his thought process on why he picked Tani (even if I don't necessarily agree about Tani being the best fit for Worker Leader), 

Oi, maybe I don't want to be kicked out of the game either! Actually I'm fine with it, I've got some busy days ahead. FYI I'll probably be offline on Saturday. 

This game is so weird in that everyone is so cheerful about the removal. You're doing great, time for you to leave 

21 minutes ago, Lotus said:

So, Jim, what are you thinking for the elections this time?

I'm still unclear, bob but I think I'm going to poke Biplit and Illwei.

Excellent choices, Jim.

Tune into KAS radio for updates as the day goes on

I like the radio bit. What's KAS stand for? (besides someone shouting the GM's name) 

*

Lord Ruler knows why I'd want to, but if I ever had the mind to buy one of the pipes I help make every day, I wouldn't be able to afford it. Something is wrong when a man can't ever enjoy the fruits of his labour. - Chalkboard 

[Kasimir he/him]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

So can the elected elims help choose who the elims guess is the Tineye? I thought they couldn't contact their team

They can't contact their team until/unless we go to that General Meeting (read: Assassination) cycle. What happens for that cycle is that it's more or less a complete refresh: all Elected players are allowed back into the thread alongside the remaining players, and both teams are allowed to confer with each other in-thread. Only Elims can vote in that cycle and if the Tineye is assassinated (via a simple majority vote), they win. Otherwise, for most of the game, Elected stay strictly separate from the other players.

Basically it's just a reminder to players that unlike usual SE games where the dead are generally done, your involvement technically does not end even after you wind up in the Elected doc.

[Steeldancer he/him]

5 minutes ago, Archer said:

Not sure I like that Steeldancer vote. Seems unjustified

Me and Fifth go wayyy back. I would never want an old friend to end up cleaning bathrooms now would I? Never, and of course I would put him into a postition of authority that he totally qualifies for, because that's how I work. 
(I see I'm going to have a great deal of fun)

[Mat he/him]

Here’s an idea: What if we RNG the election vote? Should have a high success rate, right? High enough at least.

It wouldn’t be fun though. But it might be effective!

Is Dannex in this game? Bet he wishes he thought of that one

Edit:

33 minutes ago, Archer said:

I really like TJ's opening post. It was solid analysis and helpful contributions. I feel like an elim wouldn't challenge it, so I appreciate that you did. You seem just as competent as I expect Tani to be, so I'd support you for village leader if it looked possible. I want you alive though to help out at least until the back half of the game.

I hadn't realized this format had already been run on the Shard, so that's nice. I have a thread I can reference. My google of Avalon strategy just turned up some Reddit threads that didn't match our format exactly. 

Not sure I like that Steeldancer vote. Seems unjustified. 

I like this part. TJ

Edited June 25, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Archer he/him]

19 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Here’s an idea: What if we RNG the election vote? Should have a high success rate, right? High enough at least.

It wouldn’t be fun though. But it might be effective!

Is Dannex in this game? Bet he wishes he thought of that one

Edit:

I like this part. TJ

You'd need an unriggable RNG decider, something like the final digit of Apple's stock at a certain time picks who gets elected. The odds should work in our favour, assuming complete buy in. 

My gut reaction to this suggestion though was that it came from an elim. Bold gambits often get people village read, and this reads like someone trying to take advantage of that. It's a plan that's detrimental to the elims but it probably won't be implemented so there's little risk. And that line about Dannex wishing he'd thought of it just made me go hm.

Best read right now besides Fifth is Absolutely TJ

*

I was told by my supervisor that if I didn't like my job, I should just quit and find a new one. The cost of joblessness makes that impossible. I can't afford to go a week without working while I try to find new employment, nevermind that I'd get shunted to the bottom of the seniority order wherever I end up. Besides, every factory in this town colludes to fix wages at the same basement rate. - Chalkboard 

[Mat he/him]

7 minutes ago, Archer said:

You'd need an unriggable RNG decider, something like the final digit of Apple's stock at a certain time picks who gets elected. The odds should work in our favour, assuming complete buy in. 

I was thinking like everyone RNGs a number between 1 and 18 and then whichever number comes up the most is elected or something idk I wasn’t actually gonna do it  

Edit: or like average it out idk there’s a lot of flaws

Edited June 25, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

What is it again? :P. Like, just the voting for self? yes I forgot shh

Yes, plus the fact that he tried to coerce us out of it. That would be a risky play if he was an elim. Plus, it’s D1 and we need to start somewhere. I also should note that Archer seems kinda off to me right now - there’s less logical analysis coming out of him and more fluff. While I have only played one game with non-village Archer, this happened then too. 

 

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Here’s an idea: What if we RNG the election vote? Should have a high success rate, right? High enough at least.

It wouldn’t be fun though. But it might be effective!

Is Dannex in this game? Bet he wishes he thought of that one

 

I find this odd. Why would you want to RNG something if you could go off of reads instead? That’s almost as bad as RNG, but it’s not quite there.

*
Now that I think about it, Striker self-voting seems like an elim ploy to me. Mentioning voting on yourself is more likely to get people to think about voting on you. Now I’m not so sure about my Striker vote. 

[Mat he/him]

4 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

I find this odd. Why would you want to RNG something if you could go off of reads instead? That’s almost as bad as RNG, but it’s not quite there.

I mean, I don't want to :P.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Now that I think about it, Striker self-voting seems like an elim ploy to me. Mentioning voting on yourself is more likely to get people to think about voting on you. Now I’m not so sure about my Striker vote. 

I mean, I self-voted because I know I'm the only player I'd trust to be the Worker Leader plus I've never really had a chance to have a vote manip ability, and I forgot that we couldn't vote on ourselves.

[Mat he/him]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, I self-voted because I know I'm the only player I'd trust to be the Worker Leader plus I've never really had a chance to have a vote manip ability, and I forgot that we couldn't vote on ourselves.

So you admit it's NAI?  

[+Lotus she/her]

KAS radio, sponsored by RNG.

Are you looking for a worker leader? Do you not know who to trust? Well come on down to RNG, where we'll pick for you!

[StrikerEZ he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

So you admit it's NAI?  

No, I'm saying that I think it's a villager-y move. Was I intending it to be a villagery-y move? No, not at all, but clearly I was thinking like a villager when I made that post.

EDIT: Hey, where'd my go??? I've added it back where it belongs

Edited June 25, 2021 by StrikerEZ

[Mat he/him]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

No, I'm saying that I think it's a villager-y move. Was I intending it to be a villagery-y move? No, not at all, but clearly I was thinking like a villager when I made that post.

 That doesn't make sense. Forgetting something is NAI, no? Depending on what you forget, I mean, but forgetting you can't vote on yourself I'd say definitely isn't more village than elim.

'I was clearly thinking like a villager when I made that post'

That wording

idk

[Alvron he/him]

I think this is the first game I've played where I want to see my name in red.  

Also:
Go to sleep Kas.
Here's a song to help you.
Your friendly Klaas Vaak

♪♫♪♫♪
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I've ever seen
Give him two lips like roses and clover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over
Sandman, I'm so alone
Don't have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Make him the cutest that I've ever seen
Give him the word that I'm not a rover
Then tell him that his lonesome nights are over
Sandman, I'm so alone
Don't have nobody to call my own
Please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring me a dream
Mr. Sandman, bring us a dream
Give him a pair of eyes with a "come-hither" gleam
Give him a lonely heart like Pagliacci
And lots of wavy hair like Liberace
Mr. Sandman, someone to hold
Would be so peachy before we're too old
So please turn on your magic beam
Mr. Sandman, bring us, please, please, please
Mr. Sandman, bring us a dream
♫♪♫♪♫

[Quivil she/her]

I have something to say before I respond to anything: We should probably all avoid claiming Tineye, joking or otherwise, no matter what your role actually is.

That said, I'm Merlin.

Quote

*casually prewrites RP while Kas gets the turn up* I swear Wyrm is a made up person crazy Kas just thinks is real. :P. 

Not only am I Zelda, I'm also the Tineye! 

This format is new to me, so my instinct is to defer the Worker Leader role to Tani, who I believe has experience with this, based on their pre game comments. Tani 

No. Bad Idea. Don't base ANYTHING on past experience with Avalon. It's more okay since it's just the WL vote, and the WL's double vote CAN be defeated, but still. You don't know my role, and my role isn't based on past experience.

Quote

I think the general strategy will be to not trust anyone who supports an elim's election to the Council. Obviously some of the votes will be from villagers, but if we stick to that, after the first elim gets in it'll be hard for a second to be elected without some serious wooing from the evil guys. Which should be easy to spot. 

I'd say more be careful about trusting people who support elims' elections, not just automatically distrust them, because we villagers don't know who's vil and who's elim.

Quote

I'm guessing it's a 2v:1e ratio. You can't have so many villagers that it's impossible for elims to get in, but the village is more prone to inactivity and confusion, so they need a decent chunk of the group. I'm thinking 6 elims, because with 18 players that's a nice round third. I'd believe 7 though. Once an elim shows their hand it's really hard for them to regain trust, so it might be they need a lot of people to have a fair shot. 

Most Avalon games are less about getting the missions (or in this case the seats on the Inner Circle) and more about Can the Tineye hide. So I'd guess fewer Elims.

This game is going to be even harder because there are no PMs and the Elims still get an Elim doc. In Avalon the Elims know who they all are (except Oberon) and the only way to plot is through leaving the room you're playing in to meet with someone who left with you (PMs.)

4 hours ago, Steeldancer said:

I am a clear, excellent, non-corrupt person that you should definitely vote for. When you vote for me, I'll make sure that the factory sees increased pay, better work hours, more breaks, better safety, and a bathroom that is actually regularly cleaned. Those who don't vote for me will be the ones cleaning said bathroom. This is what I call the Fair Steel Deal. Vote for Steel today!

Endorsed by the Steel Worker Leader office. 

Steel. Also, Steel. There. I voted on you. Briefly.

@Kasimir Will the Extorted people be told they've been Extorted? Also, don't forget to sleep.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Tani

[Mat he/him]

17 minutes ago, Tani said:

No. Bad Idea. Don't base ANYTHING on past experience with Avalon. It's more okay since it's just the WL vote, and the WL's double vote CAN be defeated, but still. You don't know my role, and my role isn't based on past experience.

Tani

Edit: Archer

Edited June 25, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[Steeldancer he/him]

49 minutes ago, Lotus said:

KAS radio, sponsored by RNG.

Are you looking for a worker leader? Do you not know who to trust? Well come on down to RNG, where we'll pick for you!

I'm looking for a sponsor for my campaign. As a factory worker trying to get into the politician side of things, in order to beat out nobles I need good sponsors. And I've always been a proponent of RNG, and would be pleased to be sponsored by you. 

@Tani ah, I see you're a swing vote. I'll be happy to campaign even more in your department. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Steeldancer

[StrikerEZ he/him]

55 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

 That doesn't make sense. Forgetting something is NAI, no? Depending on what you forget, I mean, but forgetting you can't vote on yourself I'd say definitely isn't more village than elim.

'I was clearly thinking like a villager when I made that post'

That wording

idk

Sigh, that's what I get for making the post right before I had to leave.

My thought process was that a villager would be more likely to forget part of the rules, because an elim has incentive to go and read the rules once they find out they're an elim, because knowing the rules helps an elim scheme better. The "clearly thinking like a villager" part was supposed to be a joke, but the shard ate my that came after that sentence. You obviously didn't see my edit.

[Elandera she/her]

"We are not skaa! The Survivor and the Ascendant Warrior did not free us from tyranny just for us to be treated like this!" I stamp my foot down on the small box which helps elevate me above the crowd - though barely because I am usually a foot shorter than the rest. "Starrick cannot crush the spirit of survival any more than the Lord Ruler could when the Survivor fought."

I pay no attention to the crowd. If I do, I will falter. I know there are some there working for Starrick. I know I'm putting my life at risk, but every day working in Irontown is a risk. A risk I'll be maimed by machinery, scalded by slag, or beaten by brutes. 

Today is the day that ends.

"By the Survivor, we will fight! We will win! And if you plan to smother our movement, know we will not be the last. There will always be someone to take up this flag and fight for freedom!" I throw my fist into the air and release a primal cry. If the crowd joins me I do not hear, for I only hear my own scream and the pounding of my heart.

---

Hello everyone! It's good to be back in a game. I'm hoping to be more active and involved, but I'm also working nights, so I'm more likely to be talkative on something closer to TJ's regular schedule. 

I'm getting a pretty good vibe from Tani.

I don't trust anyone yet enough to vote for them to be elected, though. I'm a bit suspicious of Szeth for that severe and quick trust in Striker, who is usually suspected by everyone D1, so I'm less likely to vote for either of them.

[Mat he/him]

32 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Sigh, that's what I get for making the post right before I had to leave.

My thought process was that a villager would be more likely to forget part of the rules, because an elim has incentive to go and read the rules once they find out they're an elim, because knowing the rules helps an elim scheme better. The "clearly thinking like a villager" part was supposed to be a joke, but the shard ate my that came after that sentence. You obviously didn't see my edit.

I see where you come from but I disagree, so idk.

Archer

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

I see where you come from but I disagree, so idk.

I mean, I wouldn't expect anything less from the two of us on D1.

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Tani

Edit: Archer

Hmm… I don’t think this is a good idea. Mentioning voting for you, even if it’s focused on the negative, feels elim-y to me. I’m going to hold off from voting right now, since I’d like the pool of nulls/vil reads to shrink a bit more before I do that.

[---]

hello all

i have decided that reading the rules is overrated tbh

[Quivil she/her]

47 minutes ago, Illwei said:

hello all

i have decided that reading the rules is overrated tbh

Ah.

In that case, don't kill the elims. It's a bad idea to kill the elims in this game. Instead, we're trying to kill the villagers.

[---]

5 minutes ago, Tani said:

In that case, don't kill the elims. It's a bad idea to kill the elims in this game. Instead, we're trying to kill the villagers.

I'm going to ace this tbh