Long Game 78: The Legend of Zelda: The False Heroes

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I had y'all as outlets in LG73, now I just have the thread to troll since you're not responding to my overtures in our PM smh Eiwlil 

Well, since I prefer not to make last minute vote changes and the Illwei train isn't going to go anywhere today, Pyro. Which puts me in the interesting situation of voting alongside two people, one of whom I find suspicious and one of whom my gut dislikes. I don't know what to feel about that.

9 minutes ago, Archer said:

Steel to Pyro

Huh...

I'm.. Not sure how to feel about this either. I don't really like these votes.

Mayhaps I will regret this but Pyro to Steel

Quote

To mess with Drake's vote counter.

I am offend!  Why would you do such a cruel thing to my innocent tallybot!

Quote

Relatedly, I figured out why Drake was pinging my elimdar. It was something they said yesterday slight sussing me for asking people to work to be village read. It was a weird comment. Also they revealed our PM, which I didn't expect a villager to do. That's all I've got against them so far. 

Not sussing exactly, but the way you phrased it felt.. Weird.

Should I be sus of it?

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Okay, here we go.

@Matrim's Dice @Kasimir @The Unknown Order @Ashbringer @Azmine_king @Archer @Dannex @Szeth_Pancakes @Steeldancer @Araris Valerian @|TJ| @Devotary of Spontaneity @_Stick_ @Illwei @Jondesu @Alvron @DrakeMarshall @The Young Pyromancer @Random Bystander @WhiffleWaffles @attic_gremlin @YeetAroundABush @purplewhiteandgold @Tani @quillinthestars Here's your about 11.333333333, etc, hours reminder to get any votes and actions in before the turn closes.

Also here's a VC that I really hope is right:

The Young Pyromancer (3): Kasimir, Archer, Illwei
Kasimir (1): Steeldancer
The Unknown Order (1): TJ
Steeldancer (1): DrakeMarshall
Araris Valerian (1): Matrim's Dice
hyliara (1): Szeth_Pancakes
TJ (1): Araris Valerian

Also, yes, I am aware that I left out tagging hyliara. Unfortunately, they have had a sudden tragic event happen in their life, and can no longer play the game. We are working on finding them a pinch hitter. They will replace hyliara at the start of N1. 

[Kasimir he/him]

34 minutes ago, Tani said:

Why do you call her this? *curious*

It's a LG73 thing. I call her Eiwlil most of the time. 

10 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Huh...

I'm.. Not sure how to feel about this either. I don't really like these votes.

Mayhaps I will regret this but Pyro to Steel

I am offend!  Why would you do such a cruel thing to my innocent tallybot!

Ironically, your movement off Pyro makes me feel a bit better about this

I appreciate your tallybot and also know that counting Eiwlil just involves adding to a line. Plus, I've been consistently calling her that so it's not like I'm messing with you

... Much. 

[Biplet she/her]

you are all insane people this thread is huge

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Just now, Biplet said:

you are all insane people this thread is huge

You should've been there for D1 of LG66.

[danex he/him]

7 minutes ago, Biplet said:

you are all insane people this thread is huge

6 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

You should've been there for D1 of LG66.

Or D1 of QF50 

[Mat he/him]

2 hours ago, Dannex said:

Not vote. Or at least not vote on RNG. We’ve had horrendous outcomes from D1 RNG Exes recently. And none have ever been fruitful. At all. 

*Inserts every argument for a D1 exe ever*

2 hours ago, Jondesu said:

Ok, I can’t read every post, my mind is melting, but I got the gist. What I don’t see are any legit suspects. Most people voting are going on RNG, gut reads, or disagreements on tactics, which I don’t like because I’ve always ended up going after villagers when we do that. Anyone have a suggestion where I should vote for D1 that isn’t fruitless? I know we need an exe, missing that deprives us of info, but I really never like D1 because there’s so little to go on.

I won’t be roleclaiming, btw, and would generally advise no one should unless they’ll be exe’d otherwise. Zelda, that includes you unless we’re down to just a few Yigas and you have info on one or more.

I see I'm continuing my trend of elim reading you always, alright stand by...

1 hour ago, Ashbringer said:

… this would turn very ironic if I was Beedle.

The thought crossed my mind  

55 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

I had y'all as outlets in LG73, now I just have the thread to troll since you're not responding to my overtures in our PM smh Eiwlil 

Well, since I prefer not to make last minute vote changes and the Illwei train isn't going to go anywhere today, Pyro. Which puts me in the interesting situation of voting alongside two people, one of whom I find suspicious and one of whom my gut dislikes. I don't know what to feel about that.

Kasimir

This train is bad and the Steel train is bad

7 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

You should've been there for D1 of LG66.

That was awesome  You could argue TJ's QF was better though since it was half the time (which Dannex just said I believe)

[Kasimir he/him]

9 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

This train is bad and the Steel train is bad

Really.

I actually agree with avoiding the Steel train - he's one of my weaker suspicions and I don't want to grinch a returning player on the first game he's back in. Strongly in on Pyro though, so it's interesting to me you want to defend Pyro.

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

Changing my vote before I go to bed

hylaria The Young Pyromancer

[Alvron he/him]

49 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also, yes, I am aware that I left out tagging hyliara. Unfortunately, they have had a sudden tragic event happen in their life, and can no longer play the game. We are working on finding them a pinch hitter. They will replace hyliara at the start of N1. 

Sorry to hear that hyliara.  Sending our best wishes.  I hope to see you in another game.

40 minutes ago, Biplet said:

you are all insane people this thread is huge

Agreed.  There is no way I'm going to be able to keep up / read every thing, though I have skimmed, so I'm simply going to wait a couple of cycles for the 'new game hype' to die down a bit.   

[danex he/him]

34 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

2 hours ago, Dannex said:

 

*Inserts every argument for a D1 exe ever*

*inserts the fact that I very clearly said RNG based exes*

[StrikerEZ he/him]

Oh, I should probably mention that I finally figured out what the Order of Actions was put the Order of Actions in the rules doc if anyone wants to go take a look at that to have things clarified for them!

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

(Cont. from here)

She did not get it this time.

Or the next three times.

At that point, Pyria decided to head back to the Castle. Sure, no one would probably notice that she wasn't tucked away exactly where she was supposed to be, but everyone was always so careful when it came to these big meetings, making sure the normal people was far away from the interesting stuff. Oh, sure, sometimes it was boring, but other times the Champions would talk about what they'd been doing, and they always had cool stories.

Not that Pyria had any idea what they might be talking about during those meetings. Nope. Not her.

...okay, she had SOME idea. But today's meeting was especially rushed, which meant that Pyria didn't have the chance to get herself into place beforehand. Which was why she decided to practice.

---

Eventually, Pyria navigated her way back to the castle. Getting in and out was tricky, but made easier by the fact that like, ALL the guards were around the really important rooms or the meeting area. Also, no one ever bothered to check the little bracing-ledges under the bridge except for spiders. "Hello spiders," Pyria whispered to them. Then she waved.

Of course, it would be a lot harder to get in and out if it weren't for a certain corner with some loose bricks that Pyria could remove to juuust about squeeze through into some old animal den, which led...

...Oh. Someone was walking towards her.

Pyria couldn't exactly get away, with her head just peeking through a gap at the base of the wall, so she laid her face flat against the ground and pretended to be a very hairy rock.

(open to anyone)

EDIT: Yes, I did get myself out of a plot hole by getting Pyria stuck in a literal hole. No, this was not intentional. Yes, I had to rewrite this extensively after looking at the map of hyrule castle and realizing that it's really really hard to get into.

Edited June 24, 2021 by The Young Pyromancer

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Eleven pages and I'm not sure what's actually happened. Most of the rule based discussion was in my first post, except that tireless frogs apparently do allow you to take two of the same action, which makes Beedle even less likely to be an elim.

Person wise, I think Archer's not likely to be evil given a village Beedle. I remember Pyro as being more aggressive/post heavy as an elim. I feel Kas is evil on principle for fake statistical reasons, as opposed to any actual realities. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

12 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Changing my vote before I go to bed

hylaria The Young Pyromancer

*eyes*

56 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

You should've been there for D1 of LG66.

I know. I was like 2/5ths of those posts.

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Eleven pages and I'm not sure what's actually happened. Most of the rule based discussion was in my first post, except that tireless frogs apparently do allow you to take two of the same action, which makes Beedle even less likely to be an elim.

Person wise, I think Archer's not likely to be evil given a village Beedle. I remember Pyro as being more aggressive/post heavy as an elim. I feel Kas is evil on principle for fake statistical reasons, as opposed to any actual realities. 

You're probably thinking of LG 66 or my first scumgame(I forget which one it was). The first one there was an incentive for posting a lot, espeeeccciiaally D1, and the second I outed myself as an elim intentionally to then get the whole game to focus on that game's Sk which was kinda like the scum in this game, and was one kill from winning, so I NEEDED to keep people discussing the SK or else they might kill me. (Also, people ALWAYS forget that it was the VILLAGE that betrayed the SCUM that game, not the other way around.) So yeah, it can happen, I just need a reason.

[Mat he/him]

20 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Changing my vote before I go to bed

hylaria The Young Pyromancer

Why? I village read you for your first vote post but I don't like thissss there's no reason to exe Pyro. Has anyone even stated a reason?

18 minutes ago, Dannex said:

*inserts the fact that I very clearly said RNG based exes*

How is that better :P.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Why? I village read you for your first vote post but I don't like thissss there's no reason to exe Pyro. Has anyone even stated a reason?

I like how no one stating a reason has become no reason 

Mat's definitely rose on my suspicions a bit more given his sudden broadcast of the whole Steel train issue. I can't believe I've missed it but there is no Steel train. Steel was not in danger, one vote does not a train make.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Kasimir

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

4 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Why? I village read you for your first vote post but I don't like thissss there's no reason to exe Pyro. Has anyone even stated a reason?

I haven't voted, I think is the idea.

I'm sus of the votes on me too. The new players could just be trying to contribute so it's not thaaat weird, but still.

EDIT: good point Kas

Edited June 24, 2021 by The Young Pyromancer

[Ashbringer he/him]

Archer had a vote on Steel until about 20 minutes before Kas added his. So... maybe that's what Mat meant? That is unusual to see swaps like that, but more like the Illwei-unusual of "this is rare to see, ever" than "this seems like Elim behavior".

Then again, that's still not much of a train. I've got a null on both Steel and Pyro... I'll hold to my statement of breaking a tie if need to, but for now I'll stay out.

[Kasimir he/him]

Hmm. Been playing my thoughts a little close to hand. I'll drop some of my cards now but not all, probably because I don't like where discussion has stopped, and I suppose just in case. I guess I also don't like to go into a lynch completely silent.

( @Illwei Don't @ me Eiwlil I did analysis in LG73, even at the start, just not very much. I'm not gonna delve deep, I'm chilling.)

• Archer is a slight Village trust for me simply because I don't find much of a reason for an Elim to offer the Zelda plan he did. Put it simply: assume Archer is right about Village Beedle. (I do and have generally agreed Beedle is likely to be Village; however, I still retain 0.1 confidence that Beedle is Evil though - I don't like to rule things out like this. It's just the way I run possibilities and I'm not interested in fighting more about it.) On the assumption Beedle is Village, the Elims would know this. Elim Archer might feel okay strategising and pointing out that Beedle is likely to be Village but aggressively pushing that plan doesn't benefit them. It benefits the Village a little, so that's a slight Village trust since he has no reason to do that. I say slight because this is D1, and for reasons that will pertain to Pyro, namely: I don't actually think this plan is super awesome, and proposing plans don't matter because you're ultimately at the mercy of whether the Village will go with it or not (MR3, LG73.) [Note that if Beedle is Evil, then this isn't as strong a reason to think Archer is possibly Village, so that's another reason I say slight trust. Hedging my bets.]
   
• Pyro and Eiwlil ring similar alarm bells from me, starting from the insistence that Elims would insist Beedle is likely to be Evil. I don't really think so; I don't rule out that at least one of the 'Beedle is Evil' people is likely Evil, but come on. This is SE, people have different risk tolerance and certainty levels, and we've seen enough troll GM distributions to know that not everyone is comfortable with confident statements on distros. For another, to me, that's the most suicidal place for an Elim to camp given the mood of the room. They're better off demurring or simply changing the topic, refusing to say much on Beedle, or so on. For that reason, I'm actually more suspicious of those who came in after Archer to agree but not substantially add to what Archer said on Beedle - to an Elim, you might as well collect Village credit since the genie has already been let out of the bottle - Pyro fits that profile. Illwei's strong statement thus also sits ill with me, though Illwei has a tendency to strategically overstate to try to draw reactions. This is also why I deliberately needled her about it. I agree that Pyro's statements - e.g. about the rules clarifications - do seem performative. As a result, Pyro is on one of my stronger suspicion tiers with the caveat that this is D1. [I actually also don't think the plan is as devastating to the Elims - for reasons Ash mentioned that I agree with, and just historically in SE, Village will Village and Village players will play how they want to. In my case, that'd be MR3. An experienced Elim team would know this and not feel particularly anxious to strike the plan down. If it's not clear, I think the plan could help the Village but I don't really think it's going to crit the Elims or be something they'd be dead worried and loudly against. They have better options.]
   
• Illwei - sudden TUO defence also seemed odd to me. It was a rather aggressive defence given usual Eiwlil and I wouldn't be surprised if it was also a copypasta though I haven't been able to find that while searching. Suspect it was meant to draw reactions more than anything, but something about it sits poorly with me, possibly because TUO wasn't in any danger with regard to live votes on TUO at that time (just TJ) and Eiwlil was more or less attributing arguments to TJ that TJ wasn't really using at all.
   
• Steel - not really thrilled with Steel, and as I said, I'll come back to him on a later cycle. I don't like the idea of holding a guy's feet to the fire after he's back from two years absence. That being said, Steel's vote-hopping seems a little opportunistic, and while that is consistent with what might've been the SE meta at the time of Steel's departure, given Steel has chaotic play tendencies (or had when I knew/played with him), susing Illwei for that seems rather contrived. Anyway. Steel can wait; if he's Evil, he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Just thought I'd bring it up.
   
• Drake - yeah, nah, largely gut and Agatha Christie MR paranoia. ...Probably.
   
• TUO - share TJ's concerns.
   
• Mat - largely gut. Probably some stuff I thought of and then forgot since - hi, chilling, playing this on casual. But I'm a bit concerned about his jumping in on Pyro (duh, since I'm suspicious of Pyro, though Pyro's latest reactions have once again pushed me into some uncertainty) and the Steel train mention was just odd to me, because it points at hyper-defensiveness towards a player he has no reason to be defensive of, if he were Village. As I said - there was no Steel train. Movement on and off Steel involved just two players and one vote does not a train make. Steel was not and has not been in danger. So why that focus? If it was just to protect Pyro, there's a whole field of options out there. There's no reason to bring Steel up at all. And if a single vote train on Steel is bad, what about the other single vote 'trains' present? Are they all okay then? 

Main thing on Pyro also giving me pause is that there isn't much of a counter-train, though to be fair, Mat was trying to stop this. You'd expect more aggressive Elim action, but then it depends on the team composition as well, doesn't it? I don't like last minute vote swaps and I don't have the bandwidth or sleep (two hours!) for this but if I have a chance I'll come back and look and make my final decision.

Edited June 24, 2021 by Kasimir
bolded Ash

[Ashbringer he/him]

So who lost a bet

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

So who lost a bet

?

[Ashbringer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

?

Kas Wallpost didn't take long 

I guess that's not too bad, for a laid-back wallpost...

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

2 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Main thing on Pyro also giving me pause is that there isn't much of a counter-train, though to be fair, Mat was trying to stop this. You'd expect more aggressive Elim action, but then it depends on the team composition as well, doesn't it? I don't like last minute vote swaps and I don't have the bandwidth or sleep (two hours!) for this but if I have a chance I'll come back and look and make my final decision.

Was thinking about pointing this out when matrim posted

Also, a little sus of Kas here.

[Kasimir he/him]

Just now, Ashbringer said:

Kas Wallpost didn't take long 

I guess that's not too bad, for a laid-back wallpost...

I'm usually okay with just not giving reasons and seeing what happens but sometimes my conscience gets to me. No one is perfect...