Long Game 78: The Legend of Zelda: The False Heroes

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

Really want to go there, @Tani?

---

Earl didn’t know why he was running. There was no one there, just five weird little bugs on the wall—

Rust and Ruin! 

— what? —

Earl picked up the pace — for some reason — and headed for his guard post. He was suddenly thankful for all the hours of exercise he’d endured during his off-hours. He would rather have spent them playing cards with his friends, but he was required to stay in good shape. Just in case. He glanced behind him, and saw the strange bugs skittering towards him. He stopped, yelped, and crushed them with his foot. Then, he continued walking towards his post.

 

[YeetAroundABush]

Ive got no idea who to vote for tbh

[---]

8 minutes ago, YeetAroundABush said:

Ive got no idea who to vote for tbh

When in doubt you can always vote me, people seem to like that

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

@Illwei it was a joke, I'm not Zelda.

Also, I am very much not afraid to draw attention as an elim. You should know this.

I'm watching you now.

[Quivil she/her]

30 minutes ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Really want to go there, @Tani?

---

Earl didn’t know why he was running. There was no one there, just five weird little bugs on the wall—

Rust and Ruin! 

— what? —

Earl picked up the pace — for some reason — and headed for his guard post. He was suddenly thankful for all the hours of exercise he’d endured during his off-hours. He would rather have spent them playing cards with his friends, but he was required to stay in good shape. Just in case. He glanced behind him, and saw the strange bugs skittering towards him. He stopped, yelped, and crushed them with his foot. Then, he continued walking towards his post.

 

How dare you.

Somehow he knew. He knew something was wrong about the hordelings.

There was one left. She sent more, resolving to be more careful to stay out of sight. Up in the cracks, in the corners, in the shadows. And maybe... But no. That would take too much. Anyway, she could always do that later.

This means war.

[---]

20 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

@Illwei it was a joke, I'm not Zelda.

Also, I am very much not afraid to draw attention as an elim. You should know this.

I'm watching you now.

Bold of you to assume i believed your claim, but im not here to talk about who i think is Zelda and who isnt.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

Okay, so I'm going to change my vote from Ashbringer to Azmine. I mentioned consolidating votes in my last post, and going off of Mat's VC, that doesn't leave a ton of options. I read TUO and Illwei as being their normal selves. I pretty strongly disagree with what TUO's plan is, but I also think it's exactly what he would do as a villager. Similar thing with Illwei, although my disapproval is a bit less strong. Two of the folks with votes are new, and TJ already has 2. So that leaves Azmine and Drake, with Drake being more active than Azmine.

[Quivil she/her]

Do you have a read on me yet?

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, Araris Valerian said:

Okay, so I'm going to change my vote from Ashbringer to Azmine. I mentioned consolidating votes in my last post, and going off of Mat's VC, that doesn't leave a ton of options. I read TUO and Illwei as being their normal selves. I pretty strongly disagree with what TUO's plan is, but I also think it's exactly what he would do as a villager. Similar thing with Illwei, although my disapproval is a bit less strong. Two of the folks with votes are new, and TJ already has 2. So that leaves Azmine and Drake, with Drake being more active than Azmine.

…This reads really close to how D1 of LG77 went :P.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

14 hours ago, Illwei said:

Catchup posts are rarely useful for anyone and are a pain to read but that won't stop me

I feel called out

14 hours ago, Illwei said:

First of all this is incredibly counter to last game, though I understand it's because of Link and Zelda being found.

talking about what roles go where isn't harmful to the village unless someone trusts it too much and then beedle turns out to be an Elim who finds Zelda off the bat or something. No one is speculating about who has what role in thread, which is what is harmful.

imma have to disagree on this one

I know its a 180 but this is a different game

The enemy's objective is to find certain roles and kill them

You know how I worked out a bunch of people's roles in LG77? Some of that was based on process of elimination and the tidbits my Archivist ability gave me, and some of that was people straight-up claiming, but the rest was based on role-related discussion that did not directly relate to "who has what role". Just the ways you think about roles is still telling sometimes, yeah?

I likes me a good head game but i also dont think its really a good idea for the village to talk about roles in a way that isnt intentionally misleading, and at that point if everyone is trying to be misleading, we might as well just... not. I get that roles are one of the only things we got to talk about rn, so maybe I'll get my wish later when we have a cycle or two behind us in the game and there are more pressing things to talk about, but yeah

Quote

Oh c'mon, we have durian parties

Drake.exe is not responding, Windows is checking for a solution to the problem... pls forgive me Kas but i no like durian

9 hours ago, Archer said:

Hey all! Morning thoughts. 

- @The Unknown Order 's innate curiousity seems to have developed overnight as their playstyle has changed since the last LG. I'm still waiting on an explanation/acknowledgment of that, and rationale why their open information strategy is helpful to the village. So far all I've seen is that it has some possible individual benefits. Why should we think you're on our side? 

-I agree that Pyro's post about spamming the GM PM felt performanative. Villagers do that, elims have a doc

-Illwei usually has some expected outcomes in mind from their gambit, how villagers or elims will react. It concerns me that they developed no insights from their chaos claim. What was the goal? Also, their new pfp looks super sus 

-If Yeet faked not knowing how votes work, they've basically got away with doing nothing this round. Time to change that. Now that you know how, who ya voting for @YeetAroundABush? 

-Still waiting on @purplewhiteandgold to offer their assessment of the Frog Plan. I like frogs over durians so normal people going for the protect don't have to advertise it, but I can see the benefits of both.

I very disagree with unknown order's play, my stance on that kinda discussion in this game shouldn't be a secret  but tbh not sure that I would call their behavior alignment indicative

I mean I misexed them in the last game so there's prolly some of that talking here but

even in that game I really didn't find their non-participation as evidence for alignment so much as just that when you do stuff you have the opportunity to become more trusted and process of elimination does the rest

8 hours ago, _Stick_ said:

Right okay I now see that there's pretty much no way for Beedle to be elim without the game being radically biased against the village cuz having the power to control what items go where while knowing everyone's alignment would be too OP. The frog item plan seems okay I guess - although there's a number of ways this could go:

I can see where you're coming from here, an elim!Beedle would be bad news, but I disagree. Lotta the items can only be used one at a time and there's 2 durian-protections in play among like 5-6 elims, which is strong but probably not gamebreaking. And that's assuming elim!Beedle doesn't give items to any villagers which I figure they probably would want to in that case. Idk this is probably veering into tinfoil and a waste of time but I'm just not that comfortable clearing a role that the GMs didn't clear, when they don't appear to have been shy about confirming the alignments of other roles in the game.

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

mmm

---

---[+++]---

Matrim:
 - He Identified that my post wasn't me, which shows to me an investment in actually solving me IMO
Archer:
 - Starting the Zelda theory, Claiming Zelda

---[++]---
Pyro:
 - Claiming Zelda. Pyro would theoretically be more wary of drawing attention to himself especially being the first person.
Alv, Tani, (Azmine-less so), anyone else I'm missing who claimed Zelda and isn't Archer or Pyro
 - I'd think at most there's one elim in the pool of everyone who claimed Zelda. too much attention.

---[+]---
Araris, Kas, TUO:
 - doing the whole "fake roleclaiming" thing. Mostly TUO.

---

EDIT:

right right right you just wanna sit in your little corner and solve your game right right

That's expected. Give it a bit.

Hm that's a pretty good point about Matrim

I'm not affording any special trust to any of the Zelda claimers though

4 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Probably accurate:

• Ashbringer (1): Araris Valerian
• hyliara (1): Szeth_Pancakes
• purplewhiteandgold (1): Archer
• Azmine_king (1): DrakeMarshall
• Illwei (2): Steeldancer, Kasimir
• The Unknown Order (1): |TJ|
• |TJ| (1): Illwei
• DrakeMarshall (1): Tani

People who haven't posted yet:

• Jondesu
• hyliara
• purplewhiteandgold

Voting alongside Illwei yet again on TJ for now, largely as a form of pressure to see what happens. I'd also be fine with TUO in a weird way and maybe Drake.

The same can also be said about Pyro- I don't think this is a reason to village read someone imo. I at least wouldn't have any problem fake-joke claiming Zelda as elim.

That being said I am village reading Pyro atm but for a different reason.

I'll join the hosts asking for PMs  Maybe one with Steel, pretty please?

Vote tally!

Vote tallies are good.

Also my vote is on Stick 

I... don't really like any of the other votes that much, so it will stay there for now, but who knows. I mean to make a reads list before the day is done.

4 hours ago, Illwei said:

it's not that I think none of them are Elim, it's that I think no more than one is an Elim, so- we'll see how things go from here. None of them are e/e together, but I'm not about to write all those out.

That also actually was the wrong fake roleclaiming thing, the other one where they were giving out completely fake roles. I think there's no more than one Elim in there as well.

Szeth/Steel not E/E

---

---[+++]---

Matrim:
 - He Identified that my post wasn't me, which shows to me an investment in actually solving me IMO
Archer:
 - Starting the Zelda theory, Claiming Zelda

---[++]---
Pyro:
 - Claiming Zelda. Pyro would theoretically be more wary of drawing attention to himself especially being the first person.
Alv, Tani, (Azmine-less so), anyone else I'm missing who claimed Zelda and isn't Archer or Pyro
 - I'd think at most there's one elim in the pool of everyone who claimed Zelda. too much attention.

---[+]---
Araris, Kas, TUO:
 - doing the whole "fake roleclaiming" thing. Mostly TUO.

---[-]---
Steel:
 - Everything feels forced, tonally. not on my kill list yet, giving a pass for the whole...hasn't been on for 2 years thing, needs time to adjust

---

Illwei why am I not on your reads list 

Agreed about Steel, kind of.

3 hours ago, Archer said:

As TJ said, to balance e!Beedle, you need to factor in that this cycle the elims will get 2 kill protects, and then whichever they want of the items that hide your actions or the items that give you an extra action. And the village gets nothing. Assuming the items generously refresh, next round they'll get a similar haul. And the village gets nothing.

Wait wait wait the items refresh?

..

okay I take it back Beedle is very probably village

16 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Okay, so I'm going to change my vote from Ashbringer to Azmine. I mentioned consolidating votes in my last post, and going off of Mat's VC, that doesn't leave a ton of options. I read TUO and Illwei as being their normal selves. I pretty strongly disagree with what TUO's plan is, but I also think it's exactly what he would do as a villager. Similar thing with Illwei, although my disapproval is a bit less strong. Two of the folks with votes are new, and TJ already has 2. So that leaves Azmine and Drake, with Drake being more active than Azmine.

not to shoot myself in the metaphorical foot here but Azmine doesn't have any votes any more so you probably shouldn't vote for them if your goal is to consolidate votes

16 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

…This reads really close to how D1 of LG77 went :P.

honestly it does

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

not to shoot myself in the metaphorical foot here but Azmine doesn't have any votes any more so you probably shouldn't vote for them if your goal is to consolidate votes

Metaphorical foot, interesting. Drake doesn’t have a foot guys, do the Yiga have feet?  

That was because Araris based his vote off my incorrect count. Whoops.

[Archer he/him]

12 minutes ago, Tani said:

Do you have a read on me yet?

I don't trust you. You dwarves lie a lot. :P. 

Araris, why are you arbitrarily limiting yourself to people other people have voted on? Eventually consolidation must occur to prevent the elims leading the exe, but this seems like a way to provide 'reasons' that aren't suspicions. 

Kas and Pyro continue to be very ominous, very scary 

@ village beedle if the frog plan goes wrong in any way, kindly signal that by refusing my item request tonight. Thank ye

I'm getting the sense that my poke on purplewhiteandgold isn't doing anything, so I'll see what targeting Steeldancer does. The way they backed off Illwei but didn't move their vote seemed contradictory. I like their new pfp though! 

Steeldancer

[Szeth_Pancakes he/him]

29 minutes ago, Tani said:

How dare you.

Somehow he knew. He knew something was wrong about the hordelings.

There was one left. She sent more, resolving to be more careful to stay out of sight. Up in the cracks, in the corners, in the shadows. And maybe... But no. That would take too much. Anyway, she could always do that later.

This means war.

When he got to his post, Earl had the feeling he was being watched. He didn’t know why - but this did more than just unnerve him. He was flung into full panic mode, and spun around to see what it was. When there was nothing conspicuous behind him, his eyes latched on to a crack in the wall, and saw another one of those little bugs inside. He jammed two of his fingers into the crack, but they didn’t quite reach the bug. Why couldn’t he—

Earl realized what he was doing and spun back around. There was something very, very wrong here.

Earl turned and noticed Keila watching him with a concerned look on his face “What… are you doing?” 

Earl felt himself blushing slightly. “There… was a bug.”

“Ok…” Keila scratched his head.

Earl went back to standing straight and watching people bustle in and out of the inner gate, as was his job. However, the feeling didn’t go away…

[Steeldancer he/him]

You say im stiff, huh. Might be the most helpful thing I've seen in the last 2 days from you, Illwei. I do feel like I forcing thoughts out, theres no flow as of yet. I'm still trying to figure out... how to do this again. I have no idea how I used to say things, and I've changed since then anyway. I feel like a pianist that's trying to relearn a song I memorized a long time ago but havent played in a while. 

Gimme a few irl days to figure out my playstyle again. Most likely what I'll need to do is a dedicated analysis or something, because atm I'm not feeling overly invested in the game yet. No hook, you know? Once I find a hook of some sort I should be able to find my voice again. For your actually helpful analysis, I'll take off my vote from illwei . I still think your chaotic nature is... overwhelming, but for now it should be fine. 

I have to get going, so if the turn hasn't ended by the time I get back I'll drop a vote on someone. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Faleast strode forward. Someone had pointed out he'd changed shape... which, he'd been careful about. Not many people could sneak up on him, but this was a new place with new rules. He'd still have to figure them out. But in the meantime...

"Navi, please," he said smoothly. "These identities are new for all of us, and I simply felt I needed to make some... adjustments to how I appeared. Blonde hair doesn't suit me so well, evidently, and the nose..." he adjusted a fake nose, before re-sealing it to his face. "Well, I wanted to look my best despite the circumstances."

He was proud of this, if AraRaash had his doubts. Thick black hair that drifted in an odd way, covering the back of his head, theoretically covering the various oddities that the races of Hyrule had. Over his eyes was a white mask, then the false nose, and face painted with an off-white color. They'd be able to tell he wasn't a Rito - he wasn't sure how that bird was trying to hide himself - but hopefully the rest was sufficiently ambiguous.

Of course, he stood out like a Moblin on Hyrule Field. But this time, that was the point. He stood out, people looking at the obvious disguises. Hopefully they would keep trying to pierce that... maybe they would succeed. But he doubted they would be able to pierce beneath that.

Then again... there seemed to be many people with those skills.

There were other kandra about in Hyrule. How, he had no idea. But he intended to find out.

 

---

 

I am of the opinion that role-claiming is bad, unless in VERY specific circumstances. Mainly if you're going to get executed and are a role that the Village really does not want executed (Zelda/Link/Beedle... could make arguments for others I suppose. Depends if roles like Mipha are unique or not, which we're not going to learn). 

Again, I do not like this frog plan. At all. There are many players as Elims who would try and grab a frog to disrupt the plan and confuse Beedle. There are also many (not as many, but Araris, for instance) players who would likely, being Zelda, refuse to participate. If these two happen to coincide, then we have Beedle, who most of us agree is likely Village, convinced that an Elim is our confirmed Village alignment scanner. That is incredibly bad. And I'm pretty sure Striker and Bip could have pulled an E!Beedle, depending on who the player is they could either be subtle about it or supercharge the Elims, in which case the Elims have been rooting for this plan from the start.

Could it work? Probably. But it's more of a gamble then people are thinking, and that's a really high risk. 

(@Archer, I did see your response to my original post on this, and yeah, those are the scenarios. While I agree that Zelda doing it is "probably" most likely, there is a chance Link still follows through, or a Villager who wants to double their action, or Zelda doesn't do it, or an Elim does for confusion... there are too many ways for it to go wrong because with literally anyone involved, there's just too many variables.)

 

Also, I just want to note the oddity of PMs this game. It's not open PMs, so if Beedle does find Zelda or Zelda finds a bunch of villagers, it's not a guarantee that they'll be able to communicate. But at the same time, each Postman can open one PM each turn and they last until the Postman dies, which would probably be a while, and we seem to have a few going around already.

 

Slight reads, because I need to do that more:

Village:

• Archer (while I don't like the plan, it's got few flaws and he gets Village points for proposing it)

Slight Village:

• Pyro (knowing the pair of us, this is dangerous... but Pyro's been clear about asking questions. It's an easy way to gain village points, but 

Null:

• [Insert literally everyone else]
• Mat (Mat is being... odd. Not entirely sure why I think that, at the moment. As for the several-time-champion... I will say, fudging alignments isn't something that's done often, but is done. I'd do the best to ignore that though, as basing things like that is metagaming... I will say, note that his past games were Elim in terms of Mat's-doing-something-new-ness.)

Slight Elim:

• Illwei (being chaotic is normal, but this... this feels disagreeable, which is odd. Reading thinking E!Beedle is Elim, hard-claiming Zelda... that whole post did not sound like her. I've thought that before, but it's what I've got. Also am not a fan of that "Get #rekt" post, copypasta or not.)
• TUO (not for the inactivity as usual, but for claiming full vanilla. I don't know if I believe that, this being a Striker game, but we will see. Also saying he'll play info-free and then jokingly trying to vote on the three who claimed Zelda.) 

Elim: NA on D1

This is just off the first half, so I'll update.

[Araris Valerian he/him]

19 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

That was because Araris based his vote off my incorrect count. Whoops.

Hey! Listen! I put full responsibility for this one you. And I'm going to switch from Azmine to TJ. I'm as confident as I've even been D1 that TUO is village, and I find it suspicious that anyone would stick to a vote on him for this long. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

27 minutes ago, Archer said:

@ village beedle if the frog plan goes wrong in any way, kindly signal that by refusing my item request tonight. Thank ye

... I feel like demanding Beedle grant or deny items removes most of the point of giving them a role, instead of having a standard shop. Let Beedle have their Autonomy.

 

Can we get a correct vote count, if Mat's is wrong?

[---]

46 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

The enemy's objective is to find certain roles and kill them

You apparently missed my first sentence there. It wasnt an accusation, it was a statement where i also pointed out that outing roles is directly anti-town here. 

46 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Illwei why am I not on your reads list

Tbqh I havent seen anything really that really stick out to me about you yet. I'm also convinced that Im going to read you wrong and Im just going to...work with associative reads with you...because that worked out well last time... :P. 

33 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

You say im stiff, huh. Might be the most helpful thing I've seen in the last 2 days from you, Illwei. I do feel like I forcing thoughts out, theres no flow as of yet. I'm still trying to figure out... how to do this again. I have no idea how I used to say things, and I've changed since then anyway. I feel like a pianist that's trying to relearn a song I memorized a long time ago but havent played in a while. 

Ow.

You'll get used to me.

EDIT:

@Ashbringer

Im beyond confused

If E!beedle doesnt mean Elim!Beedle then what does it mean

Pyro

Edited June 23, 2021 by Illwei

[Ashbringer he/him]

5 minutes ago, Illwei said:

EDIT:

@Ashbringer

Im beyond confused

If E!beedle doesnt mean Elim!Beedle then what does it mean

I meant where you were saying... you said you were reading the people who theorized E!Beedle, as Elim reads...

This thing. (You continued saying it iirc)

On 6/22/2021 at 0:15 PM, Illwei said:

Hot take: If you're saying that Beedle could be an Elim, you're an Elim.

Not that E!Beedle =/= Elim!Beedle

[Mat he/him]

Hmm please don’t kill Steeldancer.

Araris is where I’ll go right now. I don’t like any train that’s viable or already a thing

@Ashbringer what did you mean by ‘as for the several-time champion’?

Edit: Saying I seem different just makes me laugh because of how insistent I was last game about how my village and elim playstyle arent different :P.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Matrim's Dice

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

 

42 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Metaphorical foot, interesting. Drake doesn’t have a foot guys, do the Yiga have feet?  

That was because Araris based his vote off my incorrect count. Whoops.

Mate i dunno what to tell you hats dont tend to have feet  if Yiga also dont have feet, well, im sure thats just sheer happenstance 

smh using a fake vote tally to prevent the vote from consolidating  shame on you Mat

 

Also bc I missed it before:

Quote

Quote

Now maybe I'm readin too much into this but Stick could you walk me through why you are assuming that the elimin team includes Revali?

I mean, why not?  It's healthy to assume and thereby anticipate the worst.

Is the elim team consisting of a Revali a worst-case scenario? Like, there are more dangerous roles for the elims to have imo, and "the elim team contains Revali" is a fairly specific bit of knowledge you aren't really showing any work for.

Idk though I figure an elim would probably have a stronger reaction if I correctly called them on this...

Stick.

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

You apparently missed my first sentence there. It wasnt an accusation, it was a statement where i also pointed out that outing roles is directly anti-town here. 

Yeah, but you also said that discussion of roles in general is ok, which I disagree with  even though that seems to be what we're all doing toda

 

[---]

 

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I meant where you were saying... you said you were reading the people who theorized E!Beedle, as Elim reads...

This thing. (You continued saying it iirc)

Not that E!Beedle =/= Elim!Beedle

Oh i see

You should really know me better by now, Ash.

@DrakeMarshall

I-

I did??

Where did i say discussing roles? I mean- in the theoretical sense, discussing roles is fine. Discussing your roles or who you think other people are isnt, and thats something that i feel in every game. 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Illwei

[Ashbringer he/him]

12 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hmm please don’t kill Steeldancer.

Araris is where I’ll go right now. I don’t like any train that’s viable.

@Ashbringer what did you mean by ‘as for the several-time champion’?

Okay, that one I have no idea why I wrote that 

Or rather, I meant several-time-Elim and the metaness about you being Elim 4-5 times in a row. Why I said "champion" I have no idea.

Edit:

12 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: Saying I seem different just makes me laugh because of how insistent I was last game about how my village and elim playstyle arent different :P.

To some degree, I know. That's why you're in Null... part of what I see makes me want to trust you, part of it is weirding me out. But I'm not sure what it is yet. 

Call it a "Gut Conflicted" vs the normal null of "Gut Unsure".

Also can someone please post so we stop talking to each other in edits because this is confusing

Edited June 23, 2021 by Ashbringer

[---]

I was about to get ready for work and then my dog curled up in my lap i dont know what to do

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

13 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I was about to get ready for work and then my dog curled up in my lap i dont know what to do

Kick it.