Stark

Hello all - for a while now a number of people have speculated that the Iriali, on their long trail in pursuit of the knowledge of the one, are a society of Worldhoppers that periodically change worlds so that they may truly experience all of the One, Adonalsium. So where have they been? I am currently on my second, much slower and more observant read through of Oathbringer, and am only in part 2, and I already have some ideas for where the Iriali have been. I base all of this on things they have said. Sadly, we do not have many sources. Ym through the Words of Radiance Interlude, and Evi through Dalinar's flashbacks, when she appears and has conversation. They do not provide much, but here is what I have found, most of which is from the same chapter in Oathbringer. Chapter 36: Hero In this chapter we see Evi at what is likely her happiest, pregnant with Adolin, living with Dalinar. I picked up on four things she said that link to some other stuff in the Cosmere, emphasis mine: {Temporary edit: I am at work, so I can't really flip through the book to get exact page numbers and quotes. I intend to come back and fix the format of this later this evening} 1) White like the sun at night. She uses this idiom with Dalinar when he stops the fireplace from ash coating their walls. Worth noting that she phrases it as 'a sun,' not 'the sun.' Seems to indicate that the Iriali have been to Nalthis for a period of time before Roshar, given the colour based idiom that is also prevalent with our two Nalthians. 2) Like the blackness of old stories - When describing Dalinar's mood. While this could refer to the Desolations, I feel that this refers more to a single crushing darkness in a history that would leave all bleak. This feels like a reference to the old legends of the Deepness on Scadrial, which was often depicted as a formless blackness in art. 3) A stone still wet with moss. When describing Dalinar's thoughts on the nature of spren. I can't currently tie it to any one planet, but moss sticking to rocks does not seem likely native to Roshar. A Highstorm would strip that right off. This to me would hint at less hostile, more temperate climates not found outside of Shinovar, which is not where the Iriali live. 4) Nightwatcher, avatar of the One. This to me is not necessarily a reference to another planet, but it does line up with the second letter in the epigraphs of part two, where the shard describes the formation of a new avatar that is being bred to distrust Hoid. The comparison seems to link both the idea that intentional splinters/slivers of a certain power level could be considered avatars, and that the Iriali have been to that shard's planet on their long trail to pick up that terminology. Once again, I apologize for the format. I will be coming back to this later, today hopefully, to clean this up - add proper quotes with some context and page numbers. But this is what I have spotted so far. I do not recall much from Ym's interlude that would hint as to which shardworlds the Iriali had been to before, or even how the entire society manages to worldhop, or what their criteria for moving on is. There are a small handfull of other chapters where Evi has actual lines to deliver, but I have not gotten there yet. Has anyone noticed any other hints as to previous stops on the Long Trail? Does anyone dispute the examples I have given here, or have alternate interpretations of them?

Wow, I'd never seen this before. I don't know if this makes me like Rayse more, or Hoid less.

Ummm, what? What makes you say this? Everything seems to indicate that they did not like each other even before the shattering. I think you are confusing Hoid's remarks about Ati pre-shattering as opposed to Rayse. Unless you are being sarcastic....

Oh, that is one heck of a nasty blue shell to be lobbing... Thoughts on teams Taldain and Silverlight? Anyone else think that Hoid would be the one to bring a Chasmfiend to an airship race?

I missed the connection to Tien - but I did notice the guy was being listed as one of Amaram's officers. And that he was off doing something not legit rather than being with Amaram. I personally took it as further confirmation as to Amaram's character if this was the caliber of officer he had representing him in the army, and the sort of behaviour he allowed to go unpunished.

Maybe for the same reason the pattern was hanging out around where Elhokar died? If a true spren crosses over to the PR for the sake of bonding a proto-radiant, we know it takes a huge toll on their mental faculties. Faculties that only slowly start to recover once the bond is formed and strengthens. We also know that it is highly traumatic for a spren to have their bondmate die. If you take a partially bonded spren, who has not recovered its mental capabilities yet, whose proto-radiant dies, it make sense to me that between the death trauma, and the loss of mental capacity that comes from transitioning that the spren would stay in the area. It would stay there till two things happen. First, it needs to recover from the trauma of death. Second, it needs a new suitable bondmate to start attracting it so that it can start to build up its mind and start to redevelop its will, rather than be mindless. Add to that, the seemingly instinctual need to hide to not be destroyed by the mentally older and more plentiful voidspren that are everywhere. So Timbre could not leave Eshonai's body because Timbre had not recovered from the death trauma, or developed her mind enough to act on anything other than the instinct to hide from all the psycho spren that came out during the storm. Then Venli came and triggered the bonding instinct, allowing Timbre to move on. Elhokar's Pattern was hiding in a city filled with enemies and Unmade hunting it after that unfortunate event, and it took someone filled to the brim with lies and truths to attract it to safety. As an aside, I am intrigued that each Cryptic we have encountered is named Pattern. I believe there was something Pattern mentioned about his name actually being numerical, so Pattern would suffice. So do all Cryptics have numerical pattern names? Is there a Pattern whose name is the Fibonacci Sequence? Is the Pattern who leads Cryptic society named using the number sequence of the Julia Set that gives Roshar its shape? So I think newly transitioned, or traumatized spren are extremely limited in the actions they can take other basic instinctual moves until they recover. If they are newly transitioned and traumatized, good luck little spren, you're going to need it.

So Scadrial Era 2 has steampunk airships powered by Feruchemy/Allomancy. Roshar is not far from magepunk airships, fairly close to Scadrial era 2. I can see Nalthis joining in with Awakened sail-wings, to fly like a bird. Who else wants to see the first ever inter-Cosmere skyship races? Mario Kart style, with a set race course around each planet. Roshar gets to be the Rainbow road equivalent with the Highstorms to dodge. And seeing as the translation of the notes seems to indicate that Jasnah favours the sleek, racer/interceptor design, I can see luxury racing ships being a thing. So what do you all think? How would each Shardworld design and build their racers, and who would the pilots be? Last thought, if Highstorm Racers become a thing on Roshar, does that change the restrictions on the champion battles with Odium? Could they instead of a fight, challenge his champion to a race?

I have been wanting to know what this symbol looked like since we first heard of it. Thank you for noticing this!

Just as long as he doesn't decide to name his Bridge 4 counter squad "Bridge Burners." For one, the name is already in use. For another, it's a little on the nose. I don't know if he will. He has let Odium in by giving away his pain, and claiming a lack of fault in events. But he did have a few Bridge Four moments, where he claimed kinship with them, or used lessons from them. I think Odium took a hit, losing Amaram. Amaram was a villain who united the heroes against him, who had reason to hate or be hated by all. Kaladin for the slaughter and lies, Shallan for her brother, Dalinar for the dark reflection of who Dalinar could have been if he abdicated responsibility for his actions. Now, we have Moash, who has killed a Herald. Who has killed a king. Who betrayed Bridge Four, and murdered a man trying to protect his child. Who has worked with the Fused, and has their respect, something Amaram never had. I think Moash will be the new Amaram, the new human champion in the army of Odium, and a far more dangerous one than Amaram was.

Not intending to derail this thread, but a thought occurred to me: How many people is Shallan going to get killed this way, by drawing them as an idealized version of themselves that they want to be? First Bluth as a soldier who doesn't hate himself, then Elhokar as a king who leads. Both were given sketches from Shallan of the person they could be, and both died not long after, sketch in hand, trying to be that person. Please note: I do not actually blame Shallan for the deaths of Bluth or Elhokar. I do not visualize her going up to someone and saying "We need a hero. This is the hero you could be, if you tried." *Hands sketch* "Now, go be a hero in that impossible, almost suicidal situation, we'll talk if you survive." I love that she showed them who they could be and helped them transform, like with her squires. I find it tragic that they died trying to transform, with the transformation incomplete. But damnation if we aren't starting a pattern here, of people dying sketch in hand. And speaking of patterns, what does Pattern think of these killer lies?

Not incomplete, just still forming. Much like how children have a greater degree of facility when learning new languages and concepts than adults do, or heal differently, they may be more subsceptible to change or new ideas. A young mind full of imagination, who has not yet had years of people telling them what is really real, and what is childish fancy to be left behind may be more readily available to adapt their imaginary spren friend into their concept of themselves. And if that just so turns out to be real, then so be it. But an adult, who is certain of their reality and identity, I can see why that may need to be fractured so something else can seep in. In this case, I see the difference being the same as the difference between shaped clay and pottery. There is a transition from one to the other. If you want to add more to the pottery after it has been fired in the kiln, you need to break it to add more, or paint over it. However, the shaped clay can be molded and remolded right up to the moment it goes to the kiln. So you can add glues, and dyes and other things before it is locked in one form. The transition to adulthood, life's kiln, where you leave your youth behind. I think it is after that point that you may need to be broken to allow a spren in.

In all honesty, Warbreaker is the one with the biggest tie in to the Stormlight Archive. Mistborn gets a few brief mentions - a few characters show up in some of the interludes, there may be some items that make an appearance. A certain member of a secret society may have Scadrian heritage. There is a sneaky, easy to miss use of emotional Allomancy. There is a rumor of a kandra somewhere, and a possible hemalurgist, but no confirmation of who or when. It is all missable, and won't change much for you if you aren't looking for it, or don't know its there. As for Harmony, well there you are getting into some of the underlying mechanics of the Cosmere, and that you see a lot more of in Stormlight. But the basics is that there was a god, or god-like entity referred to as Adonalsium (you will have heard the name in Stormlight) that was shattered into 16 pieces, of roughly equal size and power, each with a driving intent. Cultivation, Honor, Odium, Preservation and Ruin are each one of these 16. When both Ruin and Preservation kicked it, Sazed was able to pick up both and fit them together, becoming Harmony. Depending on how you view that, Harmony is a single shard, double the magnitude of the others. Or it is two shards forced together that will come apart once no one is forcing them together any more. Which is true has not been confirmed, and will likely be a matter of perception, and how long they were bound together before they are no longer under Sazed's control, if that ever happens. So the power that was split into Ruin and Preservation was much greater than Harmony, and we do not know why that happened yet, only that it did. And that it happened on purpose. As for the interconnected-ness of the Cosmere, the Stormlight Archive is the first place where you can see really apparent mixes of the other books appearing in the background, where most others will have Hoid sightings at most, unless you get into things like Secret Histories, or Arcanum Unbounded. Otherwise, you will see bits of Elantris, Mistborn, White Sand and a few other not-yet-released books in Stormlight. But Warbreaker is the biggest.

Agreed. I had fun reading it until the false ending. I think that is a foreshadowing issue more than anything else. Or something they need to start to figure out just before the last battle, at the point it becomes unavoidable. So you still have the tension of the climactic battle, but don't have the let down of realizing it is not over - they start to figure it out. The other fix is the Shakespearen mistaken identity. I enjoyed the mistaken identity plot. But it strained credulity. I could have bought into it more if say, the government realized quickly about the switch, but due to the political interactions with neighbouring states, and the advent of the midnight force, could not afford to appear weak. So less trying to keep appearances for his own government, and more for allies. I think that would have made more sense. And it would have added an interesting layer of complexity in his interactions with the government members, walking the line between being a puppet for their machinations, and actually trying to do the right thing without pissing them off enough that they reveal the duplicity. But that is a heck of a delicate balance to write and maintain.

Minor point here. D'Artagnan is a french contraction of De Artagnan, meaning from From Artagnan. So you would pronounce the D as a softer 'duh' sound. That would modify versus the hard 'D' sound from D'naa. Annnd just noticed how necro this is. apologies all.

That seems to be an acceptable compromise to me, though I am no spren.

Just finished reading the WOBs from all the signings on Arcanum. Many thanks to the tireless Arcanists who have made the info available to all of us, and to the sources of that info. Now that I've read that, I have a handful of questions of my own: 1) If you take an inhabited planet that has no Shard invested in the system, and is unaware of any other inhabited planets, and no other planet is aware of them - How would this planet appear in the cognitive realm? Would you be able to access it from another planet's cognitive arena? Or would the mutual ignorance of other existence create an impenetrable barrier in the cognitive realm? 2) We know Kelsier would win a protracted war against the other heroes via assassination, and Kaladin or young Dalinar would be top soldiers in an all out battle, but who would win in the Cosmere hungergames? 3)Kandra do use non-bone and non-organic frameworks. If a Kandra was to use a carved gemstone skeleton, would they be able to simulate a gemheart? Would the Gem infuse beneath their skin in a highstorm if their flesh is opaque? If their flesh is translucent? Or would it need to be physically exposed to the storm? Would their bones being infused pose significant problems while blending in? 5)Would anything interesting happen if a Mistborn drank highstorm water? Edit: Spoiler boxes added to posts questions that touch OB. I apologize for not including them immediately.

I think that no matter what age group you pick, some people will have trouble with a book like this, and others will revel in the world and find plenty of fuel for their imaginations. There will always be a bell curve. It may have different shapes, and have some frame shifting, but there will always be some people who will not get it, some who will be indifferent or uninterested, some who will enjoy, and some that will become a ravening obsessed fanbase that lurk on forums spawning conspiracy theories about the books, the events, the systems and characters. And everything else we obsess over in here. My parents bought me Eye of the World when I was eleven, and I loved it (It took me til mid High-school to discover that the series went beyond The Dragon Reborn), and I quickly became one of the people who hunted any news of the next release. I still remember my science teacher seeing me reading The Fires of Heaven between classes and laughing at my naivete at thinking I would read the whole series in a few years - He had been reading with his wife since the 80s (Knife of Dreams didn't even have an announced title yet, and Crossroads of Twilight was still relatively new) But at the same time, other classmates were obsessing over Harry Potter, which I didn't get into until my second try, others were into Stephen King who I did not get, and others still were into Forensic mysteries. I do not believe in age locking books. I do believe in level-capping them. If, one day, I have a 10-13 year old who loves fantasy and has already cut their teeth on some intermediate level authors or series, and has enjoyed Mistborn, or a similar level book I will definitely recommend trying Way of Kings. If they are still only interested in Novella level fantasy, or Hardy Boys level reading, I'll recommend waiting. If they've discovered Redwall, well, they are on the path. For a series like this, I think reading level matters more than age. Age will help with some context and understanding shades of grey in morality questions - like @dantlee's example of the Oathpact, but I don't see it as a barrier, but a learning and discussion opportunity. I would be surprised to find someone under the age of ten who has the reading and comprehension level to follow a series like this without major questions, but I would not deny them the chance to read if I did. There is nothing overly graphic, either in the categories of violence or sexual themes, but we do get close to the line some times with the violence, substance abuse and treatment of fallen enemies in an us vs them mentality. I hope I one day have an eleven year old who wants to read Stormlight with me. Maybe by then, there will be five or six of them to go through.

Well, this has me thinking: If Sja-Anat is corrupting spren, by converting their Connection from Honor/Cultivation to Odium, she is essentially corrupting their Investiture and modifying their access point to the same well. Though, notably, Renarin/Glys still use Stormlight, not Voidlight, so not a full conversion/corruption. Is there a link between this corrupted Connection/Investiture from spren touched by Sja-Anat, and the corrupted/converted Investiture in Nightblood? Do they function in a similar fashion, as Sja-Anat 'corrupts' the spren she touches, and Nightblood absorbs and 'corrupts' the investiture he touches. Is there a similar mechanism in play here, on a different scale of magnitude, or do they both work completely differently?

That or it is where they hid the Gem containing the unmade that allowed the fused to happen sans Everstorm. It could be the prison where that gem is kept. And then the scouring' would have been an invasion to get to to this perfect gem, that contains one of the most dangerous spren, and is capable of holding Stormlight for an infinite time period. That, or it has something to do with the third sibling, that the Stormfather does not want to speak of. And then, because why note: Roshar, in theory, has between 1 and 10 (yes more than 10 perfect gems is statistically possible, but lets face it. Its the Cosmere. Stats don't come into play when shards are involved, no matter how much it disrupts the patterns) perfect gems capable of containing the unmade and holding Stormlight for infinite time periods with 100% efficiency. Infinite duration gems. Infinity Gems. Take that Marvel, Roshar has 10 Infinity Stones that can contain the world's monsters.

I think this was discussed in the original trilogy at some point. I think when Kelsier was training Vin, he explained that a cloud would hide your Allomancy, but only protect the smoker from emotional allomancy. I think. I do remember it being discussed in the book though.

This line. Got me to look at the chapter icon. The moon and spears shape makes me think of the Scadrian steel alphabet more than an Aon. And seeing as a spear is the symbol for the church of the Survivor, that may be a better link for Kaladin than Aons. Especially seeing as Kaladin always survives while those he tries to protect don't. That may be a link to ask about.

I've actually begun to suspect, especially with all the talk about about how Kaladin spends so much time wallowing on those he could not protect (Anyone who died - Tien, his old squad, bridge four, Elhokar, the singers he walked with), or trying to protect where he isn't wanted (Laral) I think his fourth ideal is going to be more difficult for him. Something like: I will trust those who are capable to protect themselves. I will accept that I cannot protect everyone. I will trust others to protect me I will respect the decisions of those I wish to protect, even if it means withdrawing my protection, so that they can learn to protect themselves. Basically, I think it will come down to something about teaching others to protect themselves, and actually letting them do it, while accepting that they are responsible for their own choices. That whole teach a person fire, rather than giving it. He will have to acknowledge that he can only be in one place at one time, and eventually will have to accept that if he does not teach people to stand on their own and protect themselves, he will never be able to protect everyone he wants to. And part of accepting that will be understanding that letting people protect themselves may end in some unavoidable deaths. This will be really difficult for him to accept, and I think that is why he is having so much trouble with the fourth ideal.

There is also the fact that she uses the same idiom as Zahel, who has been confirmed to be Vasher. "Like White on Black" (or the inverse, I may have swithced the order)for something obvious, which Vasher has used himself. Using the colour red to describe anger or Rash behavior. Much of her idiom uses colour based language, like Zahel. This mixed with the colour shifting hair, the fact that she had traveled Shadesmar from ssomewhere else, has a sword like Nightblood, is hunting Zahel, fights the same way he does, wrapped a cloak around her arm to awaken it and use as a shield in battle (like Vasher), and is confirmed to be in Oathbringer if you look for her doesn't leave much in the way of options for who she could be. What I really want to see is her journey from Vivenna the Awakener at the end of Warbreaker, who was going off to discover herself, to Vivenna the leader, as we see her in Kholinar. That is a journey that cannot have been easy.

Which makes perfect sense given a magic that gives heightened perception of colour and sound. And fits the arrangement of the planets. I had figured we had marked Sel as Densities by process of elimination, and the geo-locking of the magic creating pockets of magic accross the planet that could be described as densities, as they get weaker the further you get from them. Thanks @Pagerunner for having a better memory and/or search ability than me!

I thought the Broken Sky was Taldain, because its tidally locked. So the sky is like a clock, broken and unmoving. Vapours was Scadrial, Densities was Sel, and I forget the fourth one.