Stark

What this quote tells me is that if Adolin manages to revive her, it will be by what amounts to a soulgraft. The Maya he revives will not necessarily be the same Maya that 'died.' This can go three ways I guess. One is the ship of Theseus paradox, where the part will be replaced, is it the same spren? She will have (eventually) her memories return from before the Recreance. She will function as a spren. She will hopefully never remember her centuries as a Deadeye. She will be a little different for her experience, but ultimately be the same as any other spren who has bonded someone new after their original bondmate has died. The same as before, yet different, subtly. One is the Frankenstein's monster result. I view it almost as organ transplant, only more along the lines that she lost an arm, and they grafted someone else's arm onto replace it. Is she whole? Yes? Is it clear that it was a graft job? Very. Could it be unsettling to other spren? Most definitely. Will it be better than an eternity as a deadeye. Yes, but only because there is hope for improvement now. But the scars from the soulgraft to fix what was ripped out will be very apparent. One is something new entirely. She is not the old Maya. She is not the Deadeye Maya. She is the Adolin Maya, something new created by the blend of her soul and the part of his grafted on. The line delineating the two is blurred, and you can't tell where one ends and the other begins, but the parts are distinct for now, but become less so with time. Maybe she starts presenting similar to Glys. Like a corrupted Cultivation spren - not red, not fully different, but fundamentally changed. A spren with human eyes? A spren made of vines, but with Adolin's hair. Option one is best case, two is worst case, three is what I view as most likely. She becomes something new, like Glys. A Radiant spren not wholly of the previous ten categories. Whether this is wonderful or terrible, only time will tell.

So... Kandra Awakeners need things to resemble amorphous blobs to be able to awaken them? Or is it more closely linked to their self perception? IE: Tensoon would need canid forms, Melaan humanoid forms, Vendell dusty-old-coat-rack forms, and that one kandra to into horror would need cthulu-oid forms?

I expect nothing less from one of the skeptics of the Arcanum. I'll convince you all of something one day, and it may even be something true. But not this day it would seem. Thanks for the upvote and please keep challenging my theories, crazy or not. It forces me to craft better arguments, and I appreciate the mix of counterpoints and constructive criticism.

I did not know that. That is super cool. Unsurprising that the research is that well done, but super cool nonetheless. Do you think that was intentional?

Yup. That is a really, really good point. Couple of points actually. Have an upvote for making me think. I don't have a good answer for that sadly. But I'll try. I'll address the best point first. Scadrial was created after the shattering.If we assume that Adonalsium was like the Irial describe, creator of all that is now experiencing itself, one could argue that the essence of Adonalsium permeates all. So anything created from the building blocks of the Cosmere would contain elements of Adonalsium, whether it was created before or after the shattering. For living things, this is investiture. For planets, this is Aluminum? I know. Very weak argument. I don't expect it to convince you. But you cannot create something from nothing. So Ruin and Preservation had to get the planetary and biomass from somewhere to make a planet. And everything available would have been made by Adonalsium. So it is not beyond the realm of possibility that all planets would contain traces of Adonalsium, in this case - Aluminum, the God metal. Which ties into the first point. He came before, so his god metal is woven into everything and must be refined out. The Shards came after, and there metals are more topical. Ati's condenses in a specific crystal formation near his perpindicularity and reacts to Preservations power, and must be harvested from bulbs. Leras' seemed to be at his perpindicularity as well. But no growth pattern. Tananvast's and Cultivations (Assuming spren blades are made of one or the other based on spren affiliation, or a mix) condense only when spren take physical form. The others we ( or I, in any case) do not know anything about. But again, all speculation. II do not have a good answer to your counter. @LeyrannHave an upvote for going off the deep end with the atomic chemistry of the metals. You lost me a few sentences in. I get some of what you are saying, but that is so far outside my knowledge base that I cannot respond in an equivalent manner.

Unless we see them actual Soulcast something into Aluminum on Roshar, I would hesitate to take it as fact based on this WOB. Young Shallan was an unreliable narrator at the best of times. This second WOB does not explicitly state that other objects can become Aluminum, only that it resists all forms of investiture trying to change it. So Shallan's necklace may not have been Soulcast. And if it was not Soulcast, and it was not possible to be found on Roshar through conventional means, than the merchant who sold it to Shallan's dad should be looked at as a Worldhopping candidate. I'm in the camp that Aluminum is Adonalsium's God metal, based on the fact that it is everywhere and universally resistant to Investiture. But also because of the metal tables on Scadrial. I've gone into this at length in another thread that I've forgotten the location of, but it essentially goes as follows: Brandon has stated that the Ars Arcanum in a given book is only as accurate as the in world knowledge available to Khriss when she writes them. So future books may reveal errors in previous books, or Eras, understanding. The rest, I will spoiler for length, and because it is a rehash of what I've posted elsewhere. Also Mistborn spoilers.

But as for Maya, I think our next hint about her will be more subtle. Post Thaylen battle, with the three realms more distant, I think it will be a bit more difficult for Adolin to communicate with her. I think the following will happen in the gap year: Post battle, the seven-beat limit for Adolin will revert to 10. The vague feelings he gets from her will persist, but be more sparse, and require more extreme situations to connect (IE: He won't be able to connect in the practice yard) Maya's shape may change - that would be the biggest indicator of her revival that I would expect to see. Not changing form to a different weapon, but the shape of her swordform may shift subtly from summoning to summoning. Adolin, Shallan and Pattern may be the only ones who notice this. Adolin will spend time with Pattern one on one to try to reach her. I think many of these will happen in the gap year, and Adolin may make some minor progress, maybe as extreme as only needing five heartbeats (You number theorists out there, what do you think of the 7?), but nothing major until he gets back on screen.

I really like this idea. Having the Alethi focus shift from Ardents training the young princelings to be better duelists, to instead having an Academy that assigns a blade to a group of students with the goal of rehabilitating it, and returning it to life. They would of course need procurers to go through the world and acquire blades, or find the missing ones. They could also use Elsecallers to access Shadesmar for spren outreach and communicate with the friends and families of the spren they are trying to revive. This could be really cool. But I don't see it in book four, other than the first few hints of an idea. This would be, at its earliest, a book six event, for after the fifteen year gap.

You forgot Highprince of Fashion. I mean, yeah, sure, he left high fashion behind in Kholinar. But still. And given how Wyndle was an artistic chair gardener, what if Maya had gardens of coats. She and Adolin could consult on spren gardening patterns related to the fashion world...

Stick and fire. Nothing like an unrequited relationship that could have been, if only one party had been willing to change, just a little bit. Realistically, I don't have a favorite relationship. I think the one that gives me the most feels is Wax and Steris. Or maybe Dalinar and Navani. Or maybe Ham and his wife. The last is no less powerful for happening entirely off screen. It is a defining part of Ham's character, and everything he does is to provide for and protect his wife and children. It is small, it is not given much attention, but it is an important bit of light in an otherwise dark world.

I know wonder if using Feruchemy to manipulate Connection and Identity make it easier to adopt native magic systems? Is this part of Hoid's process for attracting the less accessible forms of Investiture to himself?

The Douglas Adams reference seems to signify, to me at least, that the tone of conversation here is attempting to shift back in a direction where I am comfortable posting. Thanks for that, it gave me a smile. I like a lot of the arguments presented here. I'm not particularly invested in Adolin as a character. I like him, for sure. He can sometimes be the most likeable character on the page, but he is not the character I show up to read about. I am interested in seeing how the whole Mayalaran situation shakes out because it will affect his character arc, yes, but more importantly what the implications would be for the rest of the world. If we see him succeed, are we suddenly going to see every duelist in the world sitting and talking to their swords? Trying to account for their feelings? Trying to learn their names? If he revives her, but does not get bonded, what then? Will he be the sword whisperer, going around and reviving all the blades he can find? Will he work with Jasnah and Shallan to make semi-regular trips to Shadesmar to begin negotiating with the spren, and trying to interact with Maya in person? Will he champion an effort to liberate the spren cities? If nothing else, with Dalinar able to supercharge Radiants, they have virtually limitless funds in spren cities. They could totally get Dalinar's help to buy the chain in Celebrant. There are so many different ways this could go. All of them are intriguing. Some are more probable than others. I look forward to seeing how this shakes out, if it does. And if it doesn't, I expect we will be given a reason for why not that will satisfy us. Because that's what I've come to expect from Cosmere stories. I'm just glad this thread has become amicable again.

Yeah, that is one of the flaws of a visual medium for this story. Seeing as Taldain is tidally locked and the Sun literally never sets, there is no visual cue to denote the passage of time. Its essentially noon all the time. So, unless you ave a character constantly talking about what time it is, or those little squares that indicate "X many arbitrary time units later" we have zero indication as to the passage of time.

Both the Lord Ruler and Hoid have been shown to have regeneration factors that rival Wolverine, and are equally difficult to kill through conventional means. As a result of this, have the Lord Ruler and/or Hoid been creatively dismembered enough that the Kandra could theoretically have collected enough of their bones to create one or more full skeletons for them? If so, what would the kandra have done with the ability to imitate the Lord Ruler and Hoid? I was reading about Evil Deadpool, and then thought of the kandra, and what they could do with multiple copies of the Cosmere's most infamous regenerator's body parts.

You mean like what happened at the Tower? Besides, I said they wear red, making them the Red Army. Not that they all become Redshirts. I may be a monster, but I'm not so cruel as to remove all hope of survival from them. No matter how many hopeless plateaus they get stuck on, there is always that lone bridge team there to save them at the last minute. And fully develop and synthesize an anti-venom for those bitten by the Wit within the hour provided by each episode.

Got mine yesterday. Will do my best to remember to upload a photo when I get home. My question was (Will edit to get exact wording, also when at home): Atium was not a basic metal. Does the Era 2 table of 16 have a similar mistake? In comments: If RAFO, may I have a quote instead please? I got a quote, "I write these words in steel..." so RAFO. Does not prove or disprove my theory that Aluminum, much like Atium, is not, and was never, one of the basic metals.

In Soviet Roshar, the king imprisons your best friends parents so that they cannot compete with his favored noble in business and allows them to die in the gulag. Oh, wait. I don't think I'm very good at this game. And that reads a lot darker than everything else. Let's try again. In Soviet Roshar, stick Soulcasts you! And Dalinar's army wears Red! Rubies and Garnets are the most valuable gems! The only state approved Radiants are Dustbringers and Lightweavers, and the Everstorm is the only true storm!

The whole trailing black smoke and leaving blackened wounds bit has me thinking of other Cosmere weapons that leave blackened wounds and trail smoke. Please note, I am not saying that Vyre's dagger is another Nightblood. But we now have three different swords that do some really weird crem. Nightblood blackens its user and trails smoke. I think he also left blackened wounds on the corpses Vasher had to pull him out of in Warbreaker. Hard to tell nowadays, as he leaves no corpses. Azure's blade drains the colour from its victims, does not take a spren form in Shadesmar, and if I remember correctly - it does something to the eyes as well, but not what shardblades do. And now finally, Vyre's dagger has a gem cap on it. It did not trail smoke before getting its stab on, and has no voice of its own that we have seen so far. But it left blackened wounds and trailed smoke, and the gem started to glow. Am I the only one who is getting extremely worried about the number of Nightblood-like WMDs showing up on screen, cause this is getting scary. Especially if Vyre's dagger is a Nightblood analog created by a Shard, with a shard's expanded knowledge and power, to not have any of the design flaws Nightblood has. And, we have not seen Nightblood's creation, but we do know that it was a while before he was given a scabbard of Aluminum. So it is possible that before he got one, it may not have been needed - that it became necessary to contain him as his power grew with each soul he consumed. And Vyre's dagger may do the same. Not that I am saying they are the same. Just that there are some extremely worrisome parallels...

It has been stated that Vyre's actions that earned him his name would be considered akin to Hemalurgy, if not outright Hemalurgy, by some Cosmere scholars. Would those same scholars have similar opinions about trapping a spren in a specific gem to elicit a controlled power response? If not, why not? How would they view it as different?

But now I want to hear his name spoken with a Russian accent....

@ThrillSeeker First things first, given what the thrill means on Roshar, I am unsure if I should be creeped out by your name or not. Either way, I like it. Second, for spoilers there are a few articles on the spoiler policy to reference. But for the most part, if you are on a spoilers apply only to books that are less than a year old, and should be confined to the boards for those works. Outside that, if the book is over a year old, spoilers are fair game. That said, often times spoilers for say Mistborn will be put in spoiler tags in a thread for any other book, out of respect for the chance that others in the thread may not have read outside the currently discussed theories. And listed with a warning that the tag contains spoilers for a given series. As for mischief, no not really. A lot of people will spoiler some really long posts, just to save space. For stuff like this, I'm not required to put it in spoilers, but I chose to because it is kind of off topic, and I don't want to distract or derail people who are here to talk exclusively about potential Jasnadin. Or at least, I don't want to derail them more than would be tasteful in light-hearted mischief. If it ends up popular enough to keep discussing, we can always open a new topic to discuss. @Chaos would be best suited to give you the best guidelines for when you must use spoilers versus when it may just be a nice thing to do. He may also be best suited for giving advice on math. But as far as I know, my random though is not spoiler-tag-necessary. But, it does not quite fit the seriousness of the current discussion, so I used it to not bug people who are not interested in my irreverence when it comes to shipping discussions

I have to say though, purely for the sake of messing with people, I almost want to start shipping a different potential political pairing. But that's mostly me just trying to cause some light-hearted mischief.

Considering that the upper limit is human sized, given that most projectiles (outside of a circus) are smaller than humans, that still leaves a pretty huge range of projectile sizes. Especially if the limit is volume based, not surface are based. It is likely a mix of the two, kept to a section of volume to surface area ratios, but still. If you're maximum volume is that of an adult human, you can still create some ludicrously oversized projectiles. Same if you are limited to surface area. So Gigantic Sprenbolt is still an option. Within reason. I don't think you could get a sprenbolt the size of an icbm, for example. @Naurock That's pretty much how I imagined it. Plus some fun being poked for chosen size and shape of the projectile spren.

I can see the two developing a mutual, albeit grudging, respect for each other. Especially once they get past him not liking lighteyes and her thinking him to idealistic. Once they begin to respect each other, that respect could be Cultivated into a mutual admiration and eventually more. That whole cliche about the distinction between love and hate being extremely thin, etc, etc. It is possible. But I do not see it as the most likely case. But hey, a lot can happen in a year off screen, right? Provided of course that Jasnah forgives him for failing to protect her brother, a person she had employed a legion of assassins to protect. And she never finds out that he personally trained the man that killed her brother, and let him escape numerous times after learning his intent to kill Elhokar, because they are friends. That last point may be a bit of a relationship killer. So I think Kaladin is going to be more focused on stopping Moash from killing, or getting killed, more of the people he has sworn to protect in the next year, and book, and not as focused on potential romance. And from Jasnah's perspective, crappy king though her brother was, he was still her brother. And he died because the Radiant he idolized and wanted to emulate screwed up repeatedly and failed to protect him. Adult decision made by Elhokar or not, pragmatic reasoning or no, Jasnah is still human, and that will be a very hard failure to overlook in a potential partner. I do want to see them talking more though.

I debated being more subtle about my implication and not capitalizing, but then figured it was more fun to capitalize. So yes, intentional, as was the talk of growth patterns. I'm not convinced they would get together without external intervention. Whether that external intervention is more mundane, like Dalinar and Adolin, or Jasnah herself making a case for it, more mischievious like Ivory and Syl plotting headboard discussions, or more powerful, like Cultivation herself getting involved with her future sight saying, subtly or not, "this bodes well for the future, you two should be friends." So yeah, capital on purpose.