Treamayne

Investiture resists investiture so it is nearly impossible to Push/Pull on Shards. . . However, as Kaladin showed, a skilled Coinshot could easily put a hunk of metal through the visor, eye, and brain. Nothing like a sharpened boxing (or bullet) bouncing around inside your Shard Helm and through all that soft tissue to drop a Shardbearer from a distance.

I apologize for being unclear: I did not mean that making maps was part of the Manifestatoins of Investiture - I only meant that as far as we know so far, Dominion is about National Identity, Governance, etc. . . Making maps is (at least partly) an expression of identifying and codifying "this part is this country and that part is that country." Only mentioning because there could be a nebulous connection to Intent (after all Ancient Trelligism did not really have much "Autonomy" obviously visible) Ditto reason. I wasn;t so much focused on the "dead" as that they showed Devotion so strong, it continued after their leaders died. Again, just a possible nebulous connection based on Intent. Drifter in SH (Ch 2-1), Khriss in M:SH (Ch 3-2), Riino (Rii Oracle - who is Ire) stocking Scadrian canned food (Oathbringer Ch 97)

Is it not technically corrupting with both methods: Hemalurgic "victim" - Something is removed (spiritweb goes black - assuming they live) Hemalurgic "receiver" - Something is added (spiritweb goes red - body is changed to fit the corrupted change) Organ changes to NOT DIE to the Hemalurgy (inquisitor) Physical transformation (Koloss/Chimerae) Just because Ruin's primary color is Black does not mean the Shard of Entropy and Change doesn't/can't express both versions. . . Especially if the truest portion of Hemalurgy is the taking/ruining/destroying (the black part of the equation)

The WoB in this post earlier in the thread is what makes fan reach the conclusion you reference

Food for thought - going one step further. What if: Red = Something foreign added to "corrupt" (change) investiture Black = Something removed to corrupt (change) investiture

I apologize for being unclear - I meant that when motive/influence counts we cannot determine for them what their motive for a behaviour might have been. Example: All I am really trying to say is identifying a quality in an action is one thing (the action/statement is sexist). Using that to label a person when the motive behind the action is unknown is something else (the person is sexist because of action/statement).

If interested, we were discussing a similar/tangential topic in this thread (link is to the post where I brought up the recurring theme of Opalescent Investiture when in a gaseous energy state - not the start of the thread). But, from evidence in Taldain, Nalthis and Roshar (at least) we have seen evidence of a Shard's power showing as opalescent when not subdivided amonsgt the manifestations of investiture, but showing as a specific color(s) when subdivided. So, my current working idea is that a Shard's color is shown in investiture manifesting as a physical liquid or physical gas (solid is metal, obviously), while the energy states are either opalescent (all aspects) or a specific color (only specific aspects). This may also explain why Iron/Steel Lines appear as Blue - if each quadrant in the metallic arts has an assigned color. Which means, for example, that if somebody could "see" a coppercloud or a zincpulse - those might be some color other than blue/white/black.

More specifically, Preservation had "hidden" it in a separate investiture cycle where expendd Atium returned to the Pits rather than to Ruin's SR (spiritual realm) "body." By finding it and being able to affect it directly, he would undo that change, allowing the expended investiture to return to him in the SR.

IS DEAD! GOOD NEWS. . . GOOD NEWS!

It can be a difficult topic to discuss, because many aspects are subjective (and subjective in a manner that relates to a person's own biases - acknowledged or subconcious). The part that should not be subjective (in my mind) is the effect on the "audience*" because if that audience felt that cognitive/emotional reaction, then that is what they felt. If there was missing context, then that may change how they feel about the situation after the fact (which still does not change how they felt in the moment). But I think labelling somebody (like Wayne, since that is the topic for the thread) needs to consider context and intention. Is Wayne sexist for his interactions with Ranette? Or, possibly, is it just that some (many/most) of those interactions seem sexist? None of the readers is Wayne. None of the readers is Ranette. Can we really speak on their behalf? I think each of us can only say Wayne's <actions/words> in <context> seemed <state>. I also think that only Brandon can specifically say if he was purposely writing those baises into the character, or analyze what he wrote and acknowledge if he feels he did write those biases into the character. For each person, their perception and reaction is important to that person. However, is it not just as wrong to label somebody on your perception as it is for them to label you on a stereotype? *Note: Where Audience can be one or more among: discriminatory target, witness to discrimination, reader, viewer, etc.

Not disputing that, I'm merely saying that sexism can happen from any gender to or upon or about any other gender. It does not only flow male against female (though I would agree that is the most common).

Should that not go both directions? People of a gender feel they know better than a person of a different gender what that person should want/need/do?

No worries. As a dyslexic*, I'm more sensitive and I also have a lot of SPAG (and each time I edit to fix, i tend to find at least one more after I have saved the edit. That's fine. I'm not too convinced that different parts of Sel have/can have/have had different temporal frames of reference. Brandon makes it sound much more like the whole planet has one dilation effect because the whole of Sel's Cognitive is stuffed with investiture. If you want an "objective" frame of reference to work on, one thing that has bothered me a lot is that the Ire in M:SH are described similar to the Reod Elantrians (Bald/losing hair, wrinkled skin, etc) but the timeline puts the events of Elantris well before the events of HoA (since that encounter is in the time between WoA and HoA). That might provide an "objective" comparison on how much subjective time post-Shattering (or post-splintering of the Ds) happened in the Selish adn Scadrian systems respectively. If it's been only 1-2000 yrs since Odium was on Sel according to the Selish frame of reference, but it's been 6+k yrs in the Scadrian frame of reference (assuming we can get confirmation that there is a connection in those character descriptions) that might help pin down how extensive the dilation has become (there is only 10 Sel-years during which the Ire might have encountered Kelsier in the Scadrian Shadesmar perimeter). We discuss it at length in this thread. * Note:

That was the implication from how Szeth ended the incident. Now, if that implication is a red herring or not . . .

Beware of SPAG - I don't know if it was a typing speed thing, or an autocorrect thing, but many of your uses of "Dor" came out as "door" and it made your text difficult to parse on the first reading. Maybe we should begin with what you beleive this to mean or how you envision it. In the first post I responded to, it seemed like you were trying to say (my example) "Oh, of course there's less Dor available in MaiPon, most of it is in Arelon" - and that was what I was cautioning against. If, instead, you mean something like "The Dor diffuses and permeates the system, but may have the investiture equivalent of oceanic thermoclines in it's density tides" then I think we can agree. This is an assumption that is unlikely to be true. AonDor existed before the Splintering of Aona and Skai. Other Manifestations also existed before they were splintered. The Moon Scepter may be based in translating Selish Symbology - but it is likely that symbology was already a part of the System before the splintering and the Dor becoming trapped in the CR (region-locking the MoIs). It's certainly possible that the Scepter was created post-splintering; but it is not impossible that teh scepter predated the splintering of Aona and Skai (just as Elantris predates the splintering, and therefore the Aons predate the splintering)

Welcome to the Shard. Be sure to let us know in your profile or an introductory post which (if any) books you have or hane not yet read (whichever list is shorter) so that we can avoid spoilers, if necessary. Wit explains this (briefly) in WoR Ch 55: That said, something did happen at Stormseat (not likely related to the Scouring - based on timeline) and that probably had an effect on the region - but farming is less likely a reason to avoid re-colonizing the region than simply a lack of need. Homans have shown over and over that if the reason to leave where you are is big enough, they will adapt to life elsewhere.

Well, not to MeLaan anyway. BoM Ch 10: This might be the type of comment people mean though - if you take his comment about the proprietor as being motivated by gender bias instead of just "Wayne says the first thing he thinks of" or simply "Wayne's an equal opportunity deadpan snarker". . . But then you also have to remember Wayne was already a bit gender fluid because of the way he uses disguise. SoS Ch 12: This probably alters his personal perception on what is acceptable to say in a given situation.

Yes, that was the premise in the beginning of the OP - "we know Autonomy did this with Trell, so i think other Shards did this too" Don't forget Felt - one reason why he was "able" to move to Roshar was because his job as Venture's spy allowed him to know about Ruin's perpendicularity and the trade that was going on there. WoBs From the Portfolio - if any were indicative of Sel, I would guess: The Bennet, and the holy need to make maps and charts could be tied to Dominion Valla, Devotion to leaders already dead. . .

I never felt he was sexist, just slightly oblivious to peoples' responses (verbal and nonverbal) to what he said and did. As far as Ranette was concerned, it felt much more like she was not "out" in the early books (and more likely from an overabundance of "I like my privacy" rather than a "I care if people care about my orientation" mindset) and Wayne just never picked up on that - because he was still stuck in the pre-adolescent "Picking on somebody means you like them" mindset. You may notice that once she was "out" (and he realized she wasn't just saying that to deter him) their relationship normalized and they actually became friends (or, at least, Vitriolic Best Buds). Which evidence? Curious because I never noticed any. . .

I think this is a false assumption. The fact that the Dor fills Sel's Cognitive and because the Cognitive does have location is why every national identity has a different Manifestation of Sel's Investiture Focus. The Dor is everywhere in Sel's Cognitive (and pressurized to boot), traversing it is a matter of preperation and technique - not location or investiture "tides." There are a lot of WoBs (each with tiny chunks of the whole) So I won't quote them all (see link), but the three most relevant are:

The wickedest witch there ever was

Actually, that's probably nearly impossible with Soulcasting. When you Soulcast, it's the Cognitive Identity, the Idea, of what is being changed and changed into. Not to mention that you need a different gem to create a solid or gas - so you cannot accidentally create anything gaseous when soulcasting a solid. You need to know what you are making (reference Jasnah's horrible attempt to reproduce Strawberry Jam), and the idea of that has to have a Cognitive Identity and the object being changed has to be able to access that Cognitive Identity to assume that form. The chances that a Radiant (because it cannot be a fabrial soulcaster - which are essence limited) trying to soulcast a particulate sodium molecule and ending up with a gasous poison has got to be astronomically low.

Good summary, thank you Depends on definitions - but Autonomy either made Taldain as it is tidally locked, or moved things around to create that configuration. Endowment might not have "made" Nalthis - but she made the inhabitants.

His answer, or that I'm such a geek I not only read all 19 pages of this thread but remembered he had answered this question and found the reference?

Topic Page 2, Chaos said: (not using quote so as to not summon wrath upon me (yet)) It's a character from Guild Wars, my MMO series of choice. This is Shiro Tagachi, the villain of actually my least favorite of GW1's campaigns. It requires a bit of explanation as to why he's my avatar, as he's been it since before 17S existed. You see, back in... 2006, when Guild Wars Factions came out, I lived with my dad in the middle of nowhere. We had dialup. Surprisingly, Guild Wars 1 worked okay on dialup, actually, as much of that game was instanced. That was nice. Anyway, Shiro's plotline was pretty terrible. He came back from the dead, brought affliction, blah blah. In the final battle with Shiro I kept DCing because dialup was also awful, but I managed to get credit for the mission. The end cutscene had someone explain that they need an especially bad place for him in the afterlife, since he already left it once. So that person said Shiro was going to "a place of eternal torment." Naturally, I assumed this to be a dialup modem. It makes sense. It basically is eternal torment. From there I began to say that random disconnecting was Shiro's fault. Later when I got better internet, when routers randomly need to be rebooted, I also blame Shiro. He is a convenient scapegoat for all networking problems. His powers have grown over the years. If a snowstorm takes out the internet, I blame Shiro. His mythology that I have invented is extensive now. There's the Anti-Shiro, god of networking, but Shiro erased his name. Shiro can turn into a cat, and for some reason, I have memory of Matt Damon/Jason Bourne being part of Shiro's mythology. I don't really know why. Shiro's my avatar in penance, so he takes pity upon me and does not destroy my internet. That, or I liked the wallpaper at the time, and I might just think it's so weird if I change it now.