Treamayne

Minor Spoilers, so your choice to read or skip:

Okay, here we go. . . Correct, we do not yet know. I always had the impression that they killed themselves (so the same mechanism that transports them upon death is what moves them to Braize). There's at least two things happening here: The Honorblades leaving to remain with the Herald on Braize was only in effect until they Broke the Oathpact and gave the blades up Jezrien didn't really "die" (at least not in the way that would have sent him to Braize, and caused his honorblade to go with him) - Moash used the Raysium Dagger to trap Jexrien's Cognitive Shadow in a Gem (like a spren being captured for a Fabrial) They didn't know that trapping a Herald that way would sever the connection keeping them alive and allow them to pass Beyond. We don't know for sure yet, but it is implied that once a Herald dies, the Fused are contained on Braize and cannot return to Roshar anymore - so the battles after that are mainly to kill the Fused remaining on Roshar to end the Desolation. "This" is an Oathpact held fast by only a single Herald, while the other nine give up the Honorblades so they are not forced to return to Braize for torture. He's deluding himself, trying to justify their actions in breaking the Oathpact. That said, it's important to note that the torture was not expected when the Oathpact was formed, it was one of the ways that Odium found to circumvent the Oathpact. Originally, the Heralds only agreed to be sent to Braize with Odium's forces, in exile. Oathbringer Ch 38: It's cultural for the listeners. It is explained in more depth in the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks in RoW (Ch 68). Pretty sure more than three Heralds were there that night. Could you please quote what you are referencing? I see the following in the Prologue: So, I see where he views the Stormlight as holy, but he only seems to reference Stone (walking and cutting) as profane. However, it could be because of the Recreance, and how Vorinism has been teaching the Surges of Radiants as being profane because of their betrayal. As mentioend by @YeomanoftheBowman, it's a feature/bug of Honorblades (not just Szeth), and may partly be due to how Honor used to fuel the Heralds. WoB: This is in reference to why he was made truthless. More info in the Climax of WoR - but we hope to get the full answer in SA5, because we still don't know for sure. Close - it's because a Shardblade (or Honorblade) is cutting the Spiritual aspect of living beings. WoBs:

Without going too far off-topic, I'd like to point out that we do not actually know there were only 14 YH when Father Machine was activated (YNP Ch 24): All we really know is that the Father Machine, through his puppet scholors, claims that there were only 14. It could have been that when the YH freed themselves from FM's control, two went to the Beyond before FM was able to set up the Prisons. FM would not want the YH to know it was possible for them to purposefully pass Beyond, so these may be lies perpetuated to continue the charade. It's possible there were only 14, or 15 or the full 16. Unreliable narrator is still a thing to consider.

Welcome to the Shard. Here are some tips and tricks you may not yet be familiar with, since each forum site is a bit different: If this is your intention then you have started the thread in the wrong section. I've already reported to Admins so they can determine if the thread should be moved - but just for your edification - each Book/Series section is only spoiler-free for that series. Only the Cosmere Discussion forum is (nearly) all Spoilers allowed (excepting preview chapters and new releases in their spoiler period. Spoiler Policy can be found here, and excerpted below (Relevent section in Green) : Just to be clear, since this is a re-read (please confirm if there are any items you have not read, like White Sand, Secret Projects, etc. - you can find lists in reading order threads or on the Coppermind if you are unsure) Do you want your questions answered, or are they rhetorical? For Example: This answer is confirmed in one of Dalinar's Visions (amongst other hints). I can give more detail depending on the type of discussion you are looking to achieve. Also, are you looking for WoB and/or Coppermind references to your musings? Such as: Relevant Coppermind: So there were more species there than the three you named, and since Fused are in Singer bodies, the chances that their blood changes color is small. There is more I could comment on, but I'd rather wait for clarification on how you would like the thread to proceed.

Agreed - that's possible. I just find it to be far less likely and it wasn't the . . . feel that I got from the text on the first read through. Until we have WoBs, I doubt there is enough data to confirm either interpretation.

Correct, it does not mean that - but it does imply that: "We lived in Hell" implies the refugees did, but not Zellion. Then Zellion arrives teaching of Adonalsium (a diety they didn't have on Threnody) and having a ship to take people off-world. The text might not say Zallion is a Worldhopper, but it certainly imples OG Zellion was not a Threnodite (or was one who Worldhopped, then returned with information and technology then-unknown on Threnody). Concur - I did not mean to implyit was. I only meant to note that if the Constructs that Nomad mentioned were sent to attack Hell (or just wandered that way accidentally) that might explain why Rebeke said: But more likely it was just a lingering worry that the Evil would find them on Hell when they decided to leave with Zellion to escape Politics (a far worse Evil than a Splinter or Avatar).

Where is that (Bolded) confirmed? A WoB or a Preview Chapter - cause that is not what the quoted section of Canticle says or implies. . . Based on the tech level of Shadows fo Silence in the Forests of Hell, it seems much more likely that the survivrs fled Fallen to Hell. Some time later, Evil was encroaching on Hell ("Chasing the survivors") but the group that left did so by ship (some kind, implied to be a Space Ship, implied to have come from Zellion - not Threnodite Tech) from Hell - not from the Fallen World directly into space.

Have you read all of the Stormlight Archive? Specifically RoW? I cannot find any WoBs addressing this, however.

No Tectonic plates, but the landmass does move. WoBs: Hope that helps

FYSA: I was editing a prologue reference into the previous post about the same time you must have posted this. It's possible I guess, but does not seem very likely. It seems to me that the reason why the upper heightenings are able to awaken Stone and Metal is because the "Lifesense" has gotten to the point where it can sense (and manipulate) those things. If energy-matter-investiture are all the same thing in different forms, and if Lifesense was only about sensing innate investiture then sensing a knife should be no different than sensing a bird of about the same amount of Mass. Since those things are different, it cannot be only investiture. There has to be a cognitive aspect (Sapient, Sentient, non-Sentient). Keep in mind, Ars Arcanums can be (and have been (Mistborn Spoiers)) wrong - they do not represent Sanderson explaining things to the Reader - they represent the in-Cosmere Arcanists trying to discover, test and quantify. "Perfect Lifesense" has never actually made sense. With Color Recognition, there is a finite amount of granularity in color and hue to be differentiated. With Perfect Pitch, there is a definitive note structure to sense and discern. The Fourth Heightening has never matched those stuctures - because the lines and limits are not as definitive. It makes no sense that "at H4 you sense everything" but we never see the Godking paralysed by sensing every cell of mold, every insect, every plant spore, etc. in the Palace. So, by deduction, there has to be an increasing level of awareness, after H4. Intent must be involved (you don't sense what you aren't trying to sense) - unless that <thing> is regarding you. And if the Ars Arcanum has defined H4 as the cap on a single axis of awareness, then further increases in granularity must be on a different axis. Also note, in Ch 3 Lightsong notes that even other heightenings, like Perfect Color Recognition, may improve with more Breath: So, the "Perfect" moniker may be Khriss' misunderstanding, or some arbitrary line that implies "futher advances require something other than just Breath" - like maybe knowledge, intent, etc. Or, Lightsong may just mean that "people of Third, Fourth, Fifth, etc. . . Heightenings" But that's the point - if it is only a certain threshold, Vasher would not have noted he could barely sense grass and lament that with more breath he would have sensed lichen.

Now I have to ask you for a source on this one. You're right - "know" is the wrong word there. It was heavily implied by: Maybe I read too much into it, but it seemed to me that Khriss (who is not an Awakener as far as we know) terms "Max Strength" around the documented perception of Life Sense allowing an Awakener to sense the regard of other people (which is how we are introduced to it, through Vivenna sensing Vasher at the Court). But Khriss also notes that each breath makes some addition to the combined total. Than we have Vasher (who actually has experience with the upper heightenings) note that, with Intent (and enough breath), you can sense things like the grass and lichen. The conclusion that seemed most logical to me (so much so, I thought it as the conclusion most people would draw) was that Vasher's comment in Ch 21 was exactly what I said in my fist post - at the Fourth Heightening the range for sensing somebody's regard (or sensing people in general) is at it's maximum - more breaths beyond that allow the awakener (who knows how to use Life Sense) to sense smaller and less complex life within that range. If just anybody at 1000 breaths could sense all life, I feel we would have seen (or heard mentioned) more about it in Vivenna's or Lightsong's chapters. Edit: Added Prologue reference

I've recommended to my friends that they wait at least until after Oathbringer (same with SP3) and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. While it does not spoil anything story-wise (unlike SP3), it does contain enough references that I make sure they expect many things to not quite make sense without having that context. I think that if somebody makes an informed decision to read it before those "milestones" - there are few spoilers for the stories you haven't read but some referneces may be lost.

Well, the Ars Arcanums for each series are in-world documents by Khriss. It is likely she meant "at this heightening the range of lifesense stops growing" (because we know that more breaths beyond 4th Heightening allows one to sense smaller and less complex lifeforms). The same Ars Arcanum - 1000 breaths is the level to reach H4.

What do you mean by "Connection Spreadsheet?" I have this: Which is more about reading order (internal and Cosmere). And there are other projects like this post.

Is there a specific thing/discussion you have in mind? The most cross I've seen is in Rithmatist.

Interesting theory Nice summary, lots of chapters there - were you catching up on previous progress? Minor Spoilers(ish) as foreshadowing:

Understood - that's why I partially agreed in what you quoted (though I am far less definitive than you - since Brandon has many avenues to pursue the story he wants to tell, and there are pathways to Idris remaining as-is while still making sense in context - nothing is definitive). It is likely that Austrism will return to some of its former beliefs, but this will likely take a long time as the hatred for awakening is deeply rooted in Idrian culture. I do also think it likely some religious groups will form worshipping the current form of Austrism. I think you (and whoever wrote up that Coppermind page) are severely over-estimating Austrism's influence in Idris. Let's analyze evidence - indications of Austrism: Mab - The cook who ran off to Hallendren, became a courtesan, got suckered into giving away her breath, ran a brothel until finally saving up enough to return to Idris with a chip on her shoulder. Possibly biased Vivenna - Brainwashed 21 year old with a superiority complex that finds her Austrism morals are not as deep as she expected. Parlin - And idrian every-man who seems to have an alternate interpretation of the five visions Most obviously early in Ch 9 when he first dons the green hat - implied to be because the Five Visions teach to not stand out and he interpreted "dress like a Hallendren" to be blending in while some others believe the garish colors are "standing out" Siri - Brainwashed naive youngest sister, who quickly adapts passed her religious morals Fafen - possibly the only truely religious Idrian in the entire book Thame - When life collided with the Visions, he had no problem with travelling down to Hallendren for work, and living amongst "the garish city" I think religion is fairly similar all over - and every nation that identifies strongly with a single religion will have a bell curve of adherents - some on the "atheist" end and some on the "fanatic extremist" end, but most are in the middle. I would also find it hard to beleive there have not been multiple interpretations of the Five Visions over the centuries (Parlin indicates as much) which means there would no universal reaction to Siri's discoveries. I do not think the hatred is nearly as universal as you imply. Mostly it's myth and superstition and misunderstanding about what Awakening is and does. WoB:

He also has not had more than a handful of dialog over four books and 2 novellas. That may change in the back five when he gets more screen time.

Now I’m certainly not an expert on the Amish, so please correct me if I say something wrong, but I’m fairly sure that they never held land that was very important, unlike the Idrians who live in a mountain range full of minerals, these mountains also contain the only copper mines in the known world (during the Pahn Kahl rebellion). Yeah, I knew my thought would take more explanation, but I had food on the stove - hence the discussion prompt about the direction of my thoughts. Idris, as a separate nation, possibly. Idrians and Austrism, doubtful. As of the end of Warbreaker, we know that: Modern Austrism is a change from their original beliefs Original dogma allowed awakening, but did not revere the Returned (it also did not seem to revile them though) Siri has already discovered how incorrect Idrian Myth is about Awakening Vivenna has too, but she isn't returning to her home Siri and Susebron are possibly establishing a new government (or at least leadership style) for Hallendren After all, the whole point of secrecy around Peacegiver's Treasure has now been fulfilled when Peacegiver (Vasher) came back and bequeathed the treasure and their Commands to Susebron All of this leads me to beleive that the future of Nalthis may include a reunification for Idris and Hallendren. I would also expect Austrism to splinter - (possibly like Catholic/Protestant - but hopefully not that violent) with some returning to belIefs closer to their original incarnation - while some will remain with their current version of the faith (and that was why I mentioned the Amish - I fully expect religious exclaves to persist in technologically advancing Nalthis even if it causes those communities to remain technologically stagnant).

I think Amish still exist in the real world, and similarities abound. More later when I have a bit more time to respond.

TB anchors are not about speed of movement, they are about perception and frame of reference (on a moving train, the Misting is stationary wrt the door he's next to and the hallway he is entering) - the Misting's "frame of reference" is "this place" - where this place just happens to be on a moving train. Is it one of these? Have you practiced? Here are some tips and tricks that may help:

Congrats. I'm guessing iit was the AU Sixth? You're in for a treat if you ever get to read the Shadows Beneath versions (if you like that kind of thing, of course - explained at the bottom of the linked post). I would guess there may be a fundamental realmatic similarity, but no. The Smoke coming from Amaram was due to the Unmade that he'd bonded - Yelig-Nar. The black smoke is indicative of consumed/corrupted investiture, not just Nightblood (please see below) We don't have that answer yet (please see below) We don't know how big "Hell" is, only that it is smaller than their original continent that has been abandoned to the Evil. We don't know how many species exist natively, or may be created by raising a "mainland" bird on the isles. (please see below) Patji is an Avatar of Autonomy, though it is implied that the Shardpool on Patji's island existed before Autonomy began cultivating Patji as an Avatar and may not be a Shardpool of Autonomy.(please see below) Taln was taken to Thaylen City by Amaram, since he has been hiding the Herald since the end of WoR. WoBs and References: Hope that helps.

I know you are already invested in the Cosmere, but be advised - Era 2 is very different from Era 1. That's why many "reading order" threads do not recommend reading them back-to-back for first time readers. If you aren't expecting a significant change in tone and structure, it can be rather jarring. I've known a few people who gave up on the Cosmere shortly after Alloy of Law was publsihed for this very reason.

Not so much a WoB as an observation - Nightblood's sheath is Aluminum, and both Nightblood and the Sheath came to Roshar via Shadesmar and traversed at least two perpendicularities. It's not so much that Aluminum can't be affected by investiture (since a Mistborn, Misting and Ferring are all obviously using it to burn or store/tap investiture) - it's that Aluminum bocks investiture (which is why the sheath helps contain Nightblood). Here's the only WoB I could find about Aluminum and Perpendicularities:

Welcome to the Shard. Here are some tips and tricks that you may not yet know, since each forum software is different: Please be careful with the term "Resonance," which has a specific Realmatic meaning separate from what your questions are asking. If you have not yet done so, you may consider posting what Cosmere books/series you have (or have not - whichever list is shorter) read - here, in an introductory thread, or in your profile. This can help us avoid spoilers, if any should apply. Investiture resists investiture, so it is very doubtful that an Essense mark could affect a Nahel Bond, and even less chance that it would affect the spren itself by stamping the Radiant. We have not yet seen if an essence mark can even be adapted to use in the Cognitive realm, much less on a Cognitive entity. What aspect of BioChroma? The Heightenings, the Aura? Awakening specifically? Ninja'd by @alder24