Treamayne

That's why I was asking how we should define the subdivision for this list. It doesn't seem to be page-count or number of books. Is it the "stakes?" Some other criterion(ia)? That was my point. It seems even amongst publishers the definition is "fuzzy." I found this: Seems it's a possible controversy we can just avoid if we sub-categorize Fantasy as: Fantasy Adventure Fantasy Epic Fantasy Urban Fantasy Of course, that list doesn't reflect on other Speculative Fiction (Sci-Fi, Sci-Fan, Horror, etc.) which already have a category at the top of the thread. Which brings me back to asking - what do we use to define Adventure and Epic Fantasy (aside from the books/series that have already been separated for MG/YA so the section is dedicated to kid-friendly stories)?

I would worry about the High/Low label - the definitions aren't quite as easy as you make them sound (e.g. Harry Potter is considered High Fantasy despite both Earth-based and almost-modern London (from when Book 1 was written). However, since we already have an Urban Fantasy category it may not be necessary to separate high/low. But, even if we just split into Fantasy, Epic Fantasy, and Adventure Fantasy that gives us three categories for the current one. Right now Fantasy has: So, maybe pull out Epic Fantasy: Advanture Fantasy:

no it doesn't. I think alder's quoted comment was about the relation to Ishar's experiments since Hoid specifically calls out what he did as being different and unrelated. YNP Ch 5:

WoBs on the topic:

Updated to here. Should we separate the Fantasy section so it's not too long of a single spoiler box? Maybe separate Epic Fantasy (the way we did Urban Fantasy). If yes, is that the best separation - and with which criterion? Number of books? Page count? Content? Thoughts, ideas, BGCs?

"Splitting a quote?" I'm not sure what you mean by that, but here are the methods I use and share: Which is what I was trying to say - maybe Yumi isn't the first time a YH was pushed into a mortal shell; and maybe on in that state can they be "consumed/diffused." So, maybe, one or two previous YH were dealth with this way (and it may not even been permanent, so what Yumi saw was a consumed YH in the process of pulling herself back together from the shroud. Afterall, they never say that the YH's separation from the Shroud was quick. . . we don;t know hoe long it took for thier identiy to reform. Except that we don;t really know that. I agree that it is most likely - but it is still an assumption. Except that when Yumi hears about the 13 others she had no idea how many YH existed. Even before the FM was activated, Liyun (like any abusive control-freak - assuming the "reform movement plotline actually existed pre-FM) was limiting Yumi's knowledge of other YH. She had no idea that 16 was the maximum or that she was, supposedly, one of 14. Which only shows that there have been 14 since Hoid and Design arrived and, if there had been one or two more, whatever happened to them severed the link to the rest of the YH. I'm just trying to postulate possibilities without assuming suspect narration as truth. We know: There was something of a YH in the Shroud, we know there were 13 Connections at the time of the story We know the "almost the same every day" false narrative of the FM claims 14 YH at the time of the story Therefore: Either one of the 13 was outside of her "prison" or a 15th YH soul was in the shroud somehow Does that check?

Welcome to the Forums. Here's some tips and tricks that may come in handy: Here's the Way of Kings quote: I think that the verb here - leeched - is particularly notable. My mersonal theory at this point is that small amounts of innate investiture are "taken/given" in these transactions since the feeling is described similar to how a (nascent) Radiant feels after running out of Stormlight. You don;t realize you are getting a boost until that bit is gone and you feel drained for the lack of the investiture boost.

I think we can also agree that, whatever descriptor you use, Yumi spends the first two parts fluxuating between two extremes that amount to "you will do what I want and I will do what I want." Whatever term you want to use to describe it, it made me dislike her character. Part 3 made little improvement and when her character progressed enough in part 4 for me to start appreicating her character growth, she gets randomly saved by plot armor (which, to me, undermined her sacrifice). I don't really care what adjective you apply (I only used Tsundere because it was the closest I could think of at the time) - the combination of false/brainwashed humility plus hypocrisy plus double-standard was what I was trying to descibe in less words.

Tsun tsun means Harsh Dere dere means Sweet/Affectionate Tsundere is somebody who flip flops between two extremes (like Yumi harshly "my world my rules" when teaching stacking, then "your world my rules" when she decides she would rather go shopping than learn). I'm not huge on Anime and its tropes - I know the term mostlyy from having lived in Japan and mostly in the context of somebody who flip-flops extremes. It was just the best term I could think of to explain what I disliked about her through Parts 1 and 2. It may be that you are confusing Tsundere with other animae tropes? Kuudere or Yandere?

Or, maybe it used to be temporary, and whatever happened with BAM (also making deadeyes with the broken oath) made the change permanent?

That is also true - which is why I linked to the Wikipedia pages on the mathematics. My other comment was why he chose the slice he chose. WoB: Please note my original phrasing. I was just proving an example.

Which also lines up with what Raboniel said in RoW Ch 46:

Im mathematics, it's a type of fractal in complex dynamics. The Julia Set is a graphically described function. The linked Wikipedia article has a good animated example of a Polynomial iterated with the Julia Set. More specifically, Bendon chose this as the influence because it can look inspired by a highstorm. (Map) Shadesmar Map is here. You can see the "paths" to other worlds labelled for which direction to travel from Roshar's Shadesmar along the edges of the map. If you have read Mistborn:Secret History, then you have seen what moving between different planet's Shadesmars can be like.

Not so much "dream realm" (though the pockets of Vision may be similar to that idea) as the SR is outside of time and place. Coppermind:

RIght, but my point was that what we saw of the power of the Yoki-hijo (which was a scam and may not have been 100% accurate to what happened before the Father Machine was activated) wasn't that Yumi made the fabrial so much as Yumi convincing the spirit to turn itself into a fabrial. Subtle distinction, that may ultimately be wrong, but a distinction none-the-less. But since the scene mentioned that the process "took something" from Yumi to enact may implt that if she realized the implication of Intent, she have had more control over the process.

Correction - Gold only shows a Single shadow. I explained this (and why it is commonly misconstrued) in this post Brandon has said that what Elend experienced is closer to what Pure Atium would accomplish. Specifically, it's a small peak at the Spiritual Realm .(Era 1) Atium isn't so much "definite" as that the shadow is such a short time that it's, like 95% accurate. Vin showed in WoA that it can be wrong. . . Don't forget that part of Eend's experience was to realize Vin had ascended and to factor in what he knew of his Wife and how she would react to his death. It certainly wasn't a 100% guarantee, but was one of the more likely futures at the point he experienced the vision. Again, this gets more detail in Secret History. Overall - great analysis. Thank you.

I don't think she turns them into fabrials, so much as convinces them to grant a request for a negotiated period of time. (ch 4) Though, perhaps it is a bit like Soulcasting, but on a cognitive being instead of the cognitive aspect of a physical being - normally you use the best method of persuasion, but with practice you could Command instead of request. Good thing they were earth spirits and not sticks.

Yes. But for entirely different reasons. I mentioned it in my reaction post - but Yumi's "saved by plot armor" really detracted from her characterization and realization that she chose to sacrifice this last time (instead of being fated by birth). I don't mind the loss of "neverending night" (mostly because it felt fake to me - "oh, these survivors have lived without the sun for generations, but have no adaptations to a sunless world? Must be nice.") But I also started not liking Yumi at all (the Tsundere was a bit too thick early on for my taste), then I started to like her character growth, then all that growth gets thown out for a last inning save. Meh.

Well, sure if you want to get all Meta - <grin> - I was trying to define in-story reasons they might not have noticed these passive side benefits (besides being new to the transformation). Not to mention find possible supporting evidence elsewhere (Riino).

Sorry I was unclear - I agree that the (highly)/(lowly) tags were probably the most efficient way to convey what was happening - I just thought that Hoid's explanation in Ch 2 was a bit lacking (for readers that really wanted to understand how such things are conveyed): It was fine for the story (especially in the context of Hoid telling this verbally) - I just thought I would write this post for fans who may want to know more.

Brandon, discussing the story. Example:

Hmm.... I'm gonna go check my math Just checked, all my word counts are as right as the coppermind is Here, we'll see if this works and you can use the numbers you need:

How very nonspecific. Just to clarify - essays only; no stories, no postscripts, etc? Edit: I have an idea - please stand by

Have you read SP3? (spoilers)

Can you please be more explicit on what you need? For example - does "word count" for an anthology like AU only count in the stories - or does that include every word in the whole product (copyright, dedication, acknowledgments, etc). For example Calibre reports there are 190290 words in Arcanum Unbounded - but that is every word from cover to cover. Where as the Selish Essay reports 652 words. Emperor's Soul reports 32259 (not including title page or post script - just Prologue to Day 101).