Treamayne

So, let me restate to be sure I understand: Pre-Catecendre, you think they moved for Altitude-as-climate-control because closer to 0m sea level was too hot Post-Catecendre, you think the moved closer to sea-level because their former altitute was now too cold But even at sea level, their adaptation finds the climate uncomfortably cold - hence the need for Firemothers and Firefathers This is also means that the additional altitude of the Soverign's temple was life-threateningly cold

Understood. I'm not a linguist major and lingual anthropology is barely a hobby. I don't much follow or care about the debates on Uralic, Altaic (or Ural-Altaic) - and whether the similaity is due to linguisitic descent, diffusion or absorption. All I meant was "there's is enough influence that the grammar is extremely similar, meaning it was easy for me to study Japanese since I already knew Korean." From a historic perspective we do know that at least some of the Paekche (Baekje) fled the invading Shilla in the 600s by going to the (what is now) Japanese islands (originally inhabited by Ainu). Scholars can debate the nature of the language relationships - for me it's enough to know that similarities are present. Maybe "related" was the wrong word, but I thougth it was the best description for the point I was trying to make. My apologies.

Right, if they were actually mountain people, they should be less susceptable to the cold, not more so. And, if it were just mountains, they would not have had such a problem near the Sovereign's temple. But, they find even the mild weather of the Elendel Basin to be too cold - because they adapted to the much hotter climate.

We don't have confirmation, of course, but my guess was that while we know there are 14 remaining Yoki-hijo, but there are usually 16 (Ch 24) - we don't know that there were only 14 when the Father machine activated. I think that either two didn't escape as the other Yoki-hijo did - or - that two were "consumed" in a method similar to Nightmare!Liyun's attack on Yumi in the playground. It isn't impossible to think that in 1700 yrs one or two of the Yoki-hijo escaped their prisons and were hunted down in the shroud (or in a Komashi city). Antoerh possibility is that the Spirits, in their brief freedom when pulled away from the Father Machine, were trying to reform a new Yoki-hijo from the shroud as a back-up to the plan with Yumi and Painter. Whatever the method that resulted in a Yoki-hijo soul in the shroud, that soul was likely pulled to the edge of the Shroud by Yumi's Stacking.

Don't forget the one, very subtle, impact on how they speak:

Did you read (or do you have) the ebook? I talked about this in my reaction post. Mervin, to me, was the best part of the book - and because there are no margins in an ebook, his tale is collected as a 2-3 pg comic at the end of each "part."

Even knowing the primary protagonist of Secret History, there are still minor spoilers for BoM. The impact is significantly reduced if the first part is already spoiled, and I can see how somebody using only hindsight might miss the secondary and tertiary spoilers - that does not mean they don't exist. But I will admit that they are small enough to miss notice by at least some readers. For other members reading this, I mean (slight spoilers): That said, I've known a few people that are less bothered by spoilers and that read M:SH before era two. Not all of them regretted it (one had been so long between SH and BoM he had already forgotten most of what was spoiled - he read Era 1, SH, Warbreaker, WoK, WoR, OB, then went back to Era 2. . . ). As always, it's a personal choice because it's a personal impact. I feel very lucky that I was already "caught up" in the Cosmere when SH released, so I didn;t have to worry about making the choice for that one.

Absolutely - that's why I cited the location pronouns becuase they are far more comman than a person pronoun; and I don't think there are any gendered pronouns that I remember, the closest you get is "that person" (저사람 - or a more specific noun than person like teacher, executive, etc.) I picked up some rudimentary Japanese while living on Okinawa (they are grammatically related languages - different alphabets, and Kanji is a weird mix of the long form hanja I was used to, short form hanze like China and Japanese specific short form). One my treasure acquisitions from Seoul (Kyobo book centre) is what I call a master dictionary. It's set up like a character dictionary, but for every character it has: long form, short form (if applicable), Japanese short form (if applicable), bopomofo, hangul, hiragana, english.

Exactly, though I generalize my prediction to Mesoamerica because if he is doing Aztec specifically in Rithmatist, then I expect he'll use elements from multiples in any Cosmere region - lots of great inspiration there: Incan, Mayan, Olmec, Zapotec, Quechuas, etc. Pretty sure that was @Jofwu in this thread. It's probably not that cold. I wrote about it when TLM was in spoiler season here and here. BLUF: It's their millenia long adaptation to a high temperature environment (they had no ashmounts to cool them) and Brandon confirmed they adapted a natually low core body temperature which makes them cold intolerant.

Oh, absolutely. My reasoning is more pedestrian:

@Firesong hit the nail. There are six or seven that we have seen on-screen (depending on if Resealing is different from Forgery - in that Forgery uses a MaiPon glyph to close the stamp and Resealing is portrayed as the naitve investiture of the Rose Empire (or at least the home nation of the Grands that eventuallt formed the Rose Empire) and likely closes with a different "nation-based" glyph. At least it certainly does not sound the the Grands of the Rose EMpire would be using stamps that Seal with the national glyph of what they consider a back-water province. . . ). That's not even counting the (likely) third Continent we haven't even seen yet (my bet is MesoAmerica) and who-knows-how -many varieties of investiture we'll find there. WoBs: Edit: Ninja'd by WoD/WtA Studios

In this vein, I would add: Did Ashravan succeed in reforming parts of the Rose Empire? Was Shai correct that he eventually surpassed the need for daily restamping (even f it was only longer periods between stampings)? Did Sebruki ever recover from her trauma (especially since she was "avenged")? Did Kenton succeed in changing the Diem's Ranking system (power and ability rather than just raw strength/number of ribbons)?

FTFY

I thought that Hoid's description and definition of the Higher and Lower forms was . . . less than steller. The concept made sense to me, mostly because I studied Korean for years, as well as lived in Korea and Japan. So, assuming the concept Brandon was trying to express is actually based on Korean (which he also studied), I thought I would make a post giving a bit of desciption on the possible inspiration for that aspect of Komashi culture. Summary - Based on context, the "highly"/"lowly" could be a verb change or conjugation change. While we don't know if Komashi uses either or both; the context of those tags will hopefully make more sense and be more impactful knowing from where it may have derived.

I wonder if, perhaps, rather than guessing a "category" and trying to line up what Shards would fit that category; instead we could find a pattern in the numbers and find the categories by that pattern. Example: So, I could see the following possible patterns: 1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 1,5,9,13 / 2,6,10,14 / 3,7,11,15 / 4,8,12,16 1-2,5-6 / 3-4,7-8 / 9-10,13-14 / 11-12,15-16 1-2,9-10 / 3-4,11-12 / 5-6,13-14 / 7-8,15-16 With so few numbers confirmed it would be hard to find any correlation; but does this imply anything rational?

Interesting theory. Here's what Brandon said in the Annotations on the subject: Note: Ruin controls Hemalurgists the same way Allomancers do (just stronger), which was the same way TLR controlled the Koloss, Kandra and Inquisitors. He knew that having a method of control meant Ruin would be able to use the same method if he was free: Really, I think reading the annotations (free on the website - linked above) for the first trilogy would help you resolve most of your questions. PS: I don't know if you use ebooks or not, but one of my personal projects is editing my ebooks - and right now I am working on adding the annotations to some of them (similar to how the Warbreaker ebook already comes with the Warbreaker annotations as part of the file). If you want to do similar or need help/advice, you can PM or use that linked thread about editing ebooks.

The Stormlight Archive section is for Stormlight Archive only - This, outside of the spoiler period, would most appropriately go in Cosmere discussion (two or more Shardworlds). Since all content from SP3 (Cosmere Spoilers) will be moved to that location after the spoiler preiod, it is most appropriate in that spoiler area. That's the general area, if you continued reading into the "Forum" area (also quoted and linked above) you would see where it says that new book content should remain in the Spoiler area unless absolutely necessary during the spoiler period. But that's fine, I just reported to the Mods and they can move the thread if they think that is in the best interest of meeting the policy's Intent. That said: We already knew that "ancient fabrials" were Spren manifesting as a fabrial (RoW Ch 46) - but the implications for Conjoined Fabrials are almost as great as the idea that such a sacrifice may be negotiated with a time limit. If it was difficult to get a spren to become a Soulcaster (or other Fabrial) because it was permanent, and that could instead be done as a temporary Physical manifestation then experimentation, research and developement all become far easier as the story progresses.

This is the wong forum. Please make sure all threads on Spoiler items in their Spoiler Period remain in the Spoiler Area.

Right. You have convinced yourself that it is one of those three. I even happen to agree that is most likely. All I was trying to say was "don't discount the improbable based solely on Sanderson wordsmithing." He has a way of answering questions that (mis) lead to one chain of logic while obfuscating the truth. If the thread is about discussion of the topic, then I just wanted to bring up topics for consideration. Edit: If you didn't want discussion of alternate possibilities, please edit the thread title to add the [Support] tag so that readers know you are looking for evidence to help support your theory (rather than discuss possibilities related to that theory) I, personally, think the relationship goes the other way. Somebody on Lumar heard of "White Sand" and thought "Wow, that sounds like an Aether Spore." And because they both use the Luhel bond, there are similarities. So, as stories of this spread they slowly became the myth of the legendary 13th Aether / Bone Spore that is both Black and White (though in Tress's present nobody actually remembers what that meant or why).

If I may nitier-pik your nitpik - Roshar System has 13 planets (10 Gas Giants and three planets in the Goldilocks zone); if you include Roshar Planet's three moons - that's 16 celestial bodies in the system (*cough* Adonalsium*cough*). It's not that the worlds have a number, it's that (?some/most?) Shards have an associate number. On worlds where only one Shard resides, that number can be "amplified" - where more than one Shard resides, the expression of their associated traits (number, color, etc) is expressed differently based on many (mostly unknown) factors. WoB:

Harmony could be in the process of making Marsh an Avatar. Secret Project 1 spoiler:

Great post and reasoning. Two notes: Or used to have a shard (either because it was Splintered or departed). Just as the perpendicularity takes time to form after a Shard arrives, it should linger for a while after they depart. Also: I feel like we should consider this is false. Not that your referenced WoB isn't valid - but we don't really know that Obrodai is referencing a planet. You touched on it here: We know that the location of Elantris is called Sycla by one faction and Opelon by a different faction. We do not know the Rose Empire's name for the Northern Continent and we know almost nothing about the third continent we have yet to see. Even if Orborodai is not on Sel, it could be a location (by-a-different-name) we have/haven't seen on a Shardworld we know (seen or unseen). PS: If Obrodai is the Rose Empire's continent - then we know Hoid was there to steal the Moon Sceptre.

Have you read Mistborn: Secret History? Notes: Ruin doesn't control the bloodlust in Hemalurgic Constructs - Hemalurgy has the side effect of causing bloodlust as a natural part of its Investiture While this seems like a sementic detail, the important point is that Ruin's investiture is amplifying the bloodlust because that's part of what Hemalurgy does - but extreme emotions also weaken Ruin's control so Ati (Ruin's vessel) doesn't always desire the bloodlust created by this effect - as seen when he loses control of Marsh while he is slaughtering poor Goradel. It takes several minutes for him to re-establish control and get Marsh to read the letter. Ruin is influencing people from the Well, but not controlling them. Covered in much more depth in Secret History. We even see much of his technique through the Trilogy, in how he uses Reen's voice to manipulate Vin. Also note, you can tell when his promptings are pseudo-automatic (happening by default of Intent) and when the manipulation has his attention (and therefore is more tailored to the situation and the recipient). Vin even lampshades this in HoA Ch 54 when she notes his default message "kill him/them" is a way for her to know the guards are near when she can't see them yet. Ruin didn't fabricate the Eleventh Metal or cause TLR to write about it in the storage caches. Malatium was a natural alloy of the changed Atium that was discovered like most Allomantic Alloys. Ruin fabricated the myth that Malatium would help defeat TLR (using the existing metal as the basis for the myth to lead Kelsier (or Vin as it happened) to discover TLRs secret of Compounding, and therefore his weakness). Ruin was causing many "natural disasters" (shown in TFE when he causes the Ashmount to erupt after Marsh acquired the Spike). Secret history has more on this. We don't see much of the effects of the Natural Disasters in HoA because the action takes place on a stable landmass (with all those metal deposits used for the caches) and far from the coast (and the storms and tsunamis created by off-shore earthquakes where the continental plates are more conducive to tectonic manipulation) Also, Ruin wanted to threaten the "heroes" with the natural disaster as part of his manipulation - he didn't want to actually use mass destruction in the Central Dominance until the Atium Cache was found. So, yes he was holding back - on purpose. I value your opinion and I hope it doesn't seem like I want to change that - I'm just hoping to explain some things I think you might be misunderstanding. Yes, Ruin could have been more overtly destructive - even when partially shackled and missing some of his power. Part of the reason he was not is explained in Secret History - and part of it was self-limitation because he was trying to Paranoia Gambit his way to finding the cache - just threatening enough to scare the heroes into a mistake - but not so destructive to risk destroying that for which he searches.

Yes - though it did not necessarily including "beating preservation" - at least before Preservation broke the deal and locked away Ruin's mind in the Well. Correct, they do not mention the Shard on that planet (Nalthis) in the book itself - but they do discuss extensively how all people born on Nalthis are born with 1 Breath. That is a measure of innate investiture that is above the average human elsewhere in the Cosmere (for example, Kaladin and Vin were not born with Breath). The result there becomes that with 1 breath, the Innate investiture of the average Nalthian is slightly above "cosmere standard" for a person - but if they give that away and become a Drab then their Innate Investiture is slightly below "cosmere standard" for a person. Slight Spoiler Emperor's Soul diesn't really have much on Shards - but it does a good job as "Realmatic Theory 101" describing the relationships between Physical, Cognitive and Spiritual. Secret History has a lot of info on Ruin and Preservation specifically - no so much for Shards outside of Scadrial. I generally also recommend people have read Elantris and Emperor's Soul before Secret History - even if they choose to accept that there will be spoilers for Bands of Mourning. I would guess that quote is including The Lost Metal. AoL, SoS, and BoM were written to not spoil Secret History Mistborn, as a series, I recommend: The Final Empire Eleventh Metal (or anytime during Era 1) Well of Ascension Hero of Ages <break - read something outside Mistborn> (Most don't realize the extent of changes to Scadrial - so going straight from Hero of Ages into Alloy of Law can be jarring if you aren't prepared for the drastic changes) Alloy of Law Shadows of Self Bands of Mourning Mistborn: Secret History Rhythm of War The Lost Metal (Has spoilers for Rhythm of War - but not as big of a deal to reverse these two as it is to read Secret History before Bands) I recommend that specific order for this series.

Here's a WoB on that topic: