Treamayne

A thread like this for Mistborn Era 1? Even if life does get too busy, we'll wait (like back in WOK Ch 18ish). Since you are doubling Tress with Edgedancer, are there any other Cosmere works you plan to read before Rhythm of War? Good thing Lift is so predictable. . . Can she?

Glad to see you don't like the easy road. How are you enjoying Tress? Are the references oblique enough to not affect your enjoyment, or do you feel you are "missing things" going into such a reference heavy story only having completed WoK and WoR? Do you recall why you didn't finish the first time? I really hope you do get back to them (and enjoy them). The First Mistborn Trilogy is a fan favorite for a reason.

It is meant to be slightly "off." Part of the reason is the Vessel not aligning entirely with the Shard's Intent. Words of Brandon: Hope that helps.

That's why in my example I defined it as "I'm using this term to mean tapping at the same rate <the ferring> stored". The math becomes very complex very quickly if you are trying to, for example, Sazed stored Eyesight at 75% of his normal for one week while translating the Logbook, then tapped to be "twice as much sight as normal." So, is he 2x normal sight or 4x his storage rate or does it become a ratio of IU? The fill rate generated X IUs of Eyesight storage and tapping drained Y IUs of eyesight storage" etc. They were only examples to illustrate a point - that the examples to which I was responding were showing (IMO) inflated levels of loss due to compression. Without more data we can only define our terms to illustrate a concept then attempt to stay internally consistent to make the example grokkable. I'm not saying that tapping depends on storage. I'm illustrating the example that storing yields an amount of investiture, and that stored investiture compresses through mutiplicative tapping with a measureable loss (that is likely a basic progression, but possibly an incrementing progression). To make the math easy, and to follow the example used in the WoB, I used the numbers as shown. Hope that helps.

Part of it is the square-cube law. Just as an ant can carry 10-20 times their body weight*, the strength to mass ratio (as explained by Ham in WoA) plays a role in how Vin can make use of her Pewter in ways that larger people cannot. We don't see Vin and Ham doing something like a deadlift or benchpress competition. Ham would likely win since he probably has a greater total strength while burning Pewter - but when it comes to physical feats where your strength is pitted against your mass, Vin's higher ratio can make it appear she is stronger. *Note: Strength to mass ratio is only part of this, with body structure and an exoskeleton (etc.) also playing a large part.

That would fall in line with the possibility that his release could be an add-on or stretch goal to the WoR Leatherbound, if that kickstarter follows the WoK formula that had Dawnshard added to the kickstarter. Shouldn't this be "between SA 3 and 4?" Was that a transposition error, or a typo in his newsletter?

Exactly. It was probably much more mundane. If Lord Renoux were found to be a Kandra, then the charade falls apart. If he is fake - then the whole set-up is at risk or at least suspicious and worthy of investigation.

We don't know that. Also, any Mistborn Inquisitors would have had Duralumin. We know that there is no evidence that they did exist; But we also know that the Steel Ministry tested Obligators for metals that were know to TLR but not known by the general public because Lord Aradan Yomen was a known Seer (Atium Misting - technically an Electrum Misting). Since TLR knew about Duralumin he could have made spikes from any Duralumin Gnats they found in the populace (though Seeking) or any tested Obligators that were Duralumin Mistings that screwed up. In Fact, there's a WoB (technically annotation) that shows that some Inquisitors had Duralumin:

Here is the WoB on immortality in the Cosmere: (slight Cosmere spoilers for all series)

There are two major differences here: The WoBs you are quoting are about Compounding (actual compounding - using Allomancy to fuel Feruchemy rather than the Compression of Feruchemical Stores which Brandon used to call compounding in older Words of Brandon) The specific example of compounded age is because TLR was trying to prevent his body's age from matching his actual age as "known" by his Spiritweb. I understand what you are saying, and I don't really disagree - except in quantity of loss. your example: Implies a 99% loss of stored investiture to "Compression cost." That simply does not match what we know of compressing Feruchemical stores (by simply tapping at a rate faster than it was stored). Really, based on the examples from Sazed fighting at the gates (WoA) and Wax demolishing the shack with a weight-enhanced Push (AoL) I beleive the closest generic formula we could use to describe the rate of Tapped investiture would be something like: Given a storage rate of 1IU per second; the rate Taps at: Single: 1IU per second Double: 2.1 IUs per second Triple: 3.3 IUs per second Quadruple: 4.6 IUs per second Quintuple: 6 IUs per second etc. Compressing the storage means you are not only using more of the storage to get the compressed result; but you are using that storage faster because there is investiture lost in compressing the trait. To equate that to an in-world example - WoA: So, we know that Sazed says in Ch 19 that he could be as strong as ten men for a long time (but no telling what he thought a long time was in that situation); and we know he used up most of his Pewtermind in half-a-day (ish - the attack started in the morning and Vin arrived shortly before sunset). So, if we hypothesize that Sazed was storing at 5 IU per second to be half-as-strong while storing; then to be as strong as ten men he would need to be tapping at roughly 20 times compression - which would normally be 100 IU per second. With loss - based on your example, he would be tapping at 1000 IU per second - which does not seem sustainable for a nearly full day of fighting Koloss. In my example, with loss he would be tapping about 142 to 154 IU per second (depending on the progression trend used for math and whether it is a incline or a curve progression). The reality is probably somewhere beween the two extremes - but I don't think we have enough data to refine the hypothesis.

I think two things are skewing your calculation here: The power lost is nearly a flat rate - not a proportionate decrease (though the numbers weren't exact as they were just off-the-cuff examples for the question) The WoB Example is by timing based on the multiplier, so the rate of loss for power based on time may be different. In the WoB Example, 50% for 1 hr = 150% for 1 hr / 200 for 25 minutes / 250% for 10 minutes. This shows: The "Double" time doesn't change - what you put in comes out at the same rate and time The "Triple" compressions was a double-rate Tap - 1 hr ^ 2 = 30 Minutes then - 5 minutes of loss = 25 Minutes The "Quadruple" compression was a triple-rate Tap - 1 hr ^ 3 = 15 Minutes - 5 minutes of loss = 10 Minutes In both examples the efficiency "loss" was 5 minutes (probably truly a bit less than 5 for the double-rate Tap - or - a bit more than 5 for the triple-rate). Since we don't have an investiture unit of measure (IU) we can't truly quantify this; but we can extrapolate. If single-rate Tap costs 0 (same in/out) then double rate costs 1 IU of investiture to compress the Tap, triple costs 2 IU, quadruple 3 IU, etc. It's possible that the compression is exponential (1IU, 2, 4, 8, etc.) but that isn't quite consistent with the text so it is hard to judge without more examples from Brandon or Peter.

Keep in mind that the loss in power when "compounding" (tapping at a rate greater than the rate of storage) has been confirmed as being because power is expended to increase the rate of access. WoB (Note: this WoB is from before when "Compounding" was set as the canon term for using Allomancy to fuel Feruchemy) Have you read Elantris? It might help understand what is happening. If you have read it (or don't care about spoilers - Elantris Ch 53):

Welcome to the Forums. In case you aren't familiar with some of the tools in this style of forum, You can check this out: This is the spoilers allowed section, so please let us know if there are parts of the Cosmere you have not yet read. I'll put this in a spoiler tag, just in case.

Glad you enjoyed it. Era 1 is special for many of us that have read a lot of the Cosmere. Just to clarify, in case you were unaware, The different Mistborn Trilogies' subtle subtheme is about how a society and culture progresses. So each Era will be a different state of society and technology. Sanderson says it best:

Thanks for the write-up. Glad you enjoyed it. Have you read Elantris yet? If not, you are in for a treat. I expect you'll love Mistborn: Secret History. Alas, it has spoilers for some Era 2 material, it's not recommended reading until after you have finished Bands of Mourning. I would further recommend that you have read Elantris before M:SH.

You say "Puula" (not sure where you got that name) but the WoB you reference is about Riino, who was in Elantris as the "We were so beautiful once" Hoed; who somehow survived going through the Perpendicularity when placed there by Raoden, Karata and Galladon (Elantris Ch 25). He is next seen in Oathbringer as the Lighthouse Keeper and "Rii Oracle" in Shadesmar (OB Ch 97).

Into stone? probably not (though you may be able to soulcast the Air inside the lightweaving into the same shape as the lightweaving). However, it was heavily implied that Shallan was using Soulcasting on her Lightweavings in the OB Climax to make them at least partially "tangible" (ch 120) This is probably the Lightweaver equivalent of the Reverse Lashing - a single ability that is pulling from both surges in the same order.

That's a homologous behaviour of all alkali metals. Please note the Words of Brandon I posted above. Also, just to be more specific, when I mentioned "Salt" above - I was referencing (Wikipedia)*: You mentioned Sodium (NA), I thought you meant Cesium - because Brandon specifically used Cesium as his example (as noted above). Then, as noted in my next post - I was trying to verify if you had newer or different information since the WoBs we did have mentioned Cesium, not Sodium. So, please let us know why you referenced Sodium. I'm guessing it was either new information, or you didn't know about the WoBs that mentioned Cesium. *Note: I did screw up in that I knew Sodium occurs naturally in Salts, but didn't realize that was true of all Alkali Metals, including Cesium. I'm sorry.

Welcome to the Forums Be careful of double-posting. In case you aren't familiar with this forum style/format: Others have already answered your original question, with @Frustration providing a link for more reading; but please feel free to ask for more information/clarification if you need it.

Understood - but the WoBs say Cesium (which is why I quoted them). Reactive Sodium (NA) does not appear in nature; except as the stable isotope 23NA and a component of compounds. Either way, I wasn't trying to be argumentitive, I was confused and simply trying to clarify since the WoBs say Cesium and you said Sodium. I thought you might have a different source or some new information.

Did you mean sodium (salt) here? Because that's not the descriptions we have to work with (WoBs):

Don't forget we also learn in the book: So, the people who were already Elantrian when the Reod struck likely never even got the chance to try "solving" what happened or discovering the chasm line. The most powerful (most knowledgeable about AonDor and therefore closest to the Dor) were stricken with the same "attacks" that Raoden suffered from their Connection to the Dor. They were killed quickly. Those that survived were rounded up and locked into the city (e. g. Riino - the "We were so beautiful once" hoed). By the time the "uprising" finished (less than a month) the inhabitants of the city probably didn't even know about the earthquake or the chasm it had created. Only somebody who already had that information could have traced the chasm to the geography and its effects on the Aons.

OIC So, what you really mean is can somebody compound and tap enough investiture to become a Sliver? (Though Mistborn uses the term Ascend for both Vin and Rashek, it was clarified that that was a case of "in-world-wrong-term-cause-they-don't-know-better" and they both were Slivers after using well - whereas Kelsier became a Sliver because he was a Vessel for the Shard and gave it up to Vin)

Probably not. There are a couple of problems with your scenario. Large quantities of investiture do not mean ascension - they do not have Intent and all the other components that make up a Shard's power They can however develop sentience/sapience over time - So you might end up with a Nightbloodish Metalmind if your Ferring never taps the metalmind. . . Investiture in a metal mind is in the PR. For ascension, the investiture needs to be touching all three realms This is why Odium stuck the power of Dominion and Devotion in the CR of Sel / so that a "rival" could not ascend to those shards because they were cut off from the SR.

Interesting idea. How do you plan to get the Endowment-Allomancy/Feruchemy out of the Spiritual Realm? Breaths can be transferred (at least in part) because they are Endowment's investiture in the Physical Realm. That's why the Breath of an old or sick person is weaker than a child or healthy person (and why they use Children to "feed" the Court of the Gods). It's also why colors are affected by the amount of Breath a person holds, and why the breath may "pulse" when somebody is dying (ref: Lemex). While the Spiritweb may hold the characteristic that "you" are born Nalthian and therefore born with 1 Breath - the breaths themselves do not reside on the Spiritweb (which is also why it is so easy for Worldhoppers to gain and use Breaths).