alder24

3 hours ago, Treamayne said:

• This is the same as the D'Denir statues that still have a 1 Breath Awakened skeleton in the center. but can't follow Commands until the stone is Awakened with enough Breath to allow them to act. 

It's not a 1 Breath skeleton, it's 50-100 Breaths. Warbreaker ch 46:

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“What about bones?” Vivenna asked.
“They’re strange,” Vasher said. “They take far more Breath to awaken than a body held together with flesh and aren’t as flexible as something like cloth. Still, Breath will stick to them fairly easily, since they were once alive and maintain the form of a living thing.”
“So Idrian stories that talk about skeletal armies aren’t just fabrications?”
He chuckled. “Oh, they are. If you wanted to Awaken a skeleton, you’d have to arrange all the bones together in their correct places. That’s a lot of work for something that will take upwards of fifty or a hundred Breaths to Awaken."

4 hours ago, ShadeWhisperer said:

So Brandon wrote 5 books during Covid. We got 4 of them during the year of Sanderson. Does anyone know if secret project 5 is the 5th one from the books written during Covid? Or is it a new one?

Brandon called it SP0 so Isles of the Emberdark being SP5 is fine. WoB for you, check out the link at the bottom of the WoB if you want to see some early images from the book.

15 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Along with long chills, Super awesome danger, and the four secret novels, Emberdark is sp7.

Long Chills & Case Dough is a part of Sanderson Curiosities, it's a Prime version of an unpublished book he wrote before he started his career. It was a surprise but not a Secret Project.

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Long Chills and Case Dough is a previously unpublished short story, written just before Brandon published his first book. It was released to celebrate the finale of the 2023 "Year of Sanderson," and is published exclusively by Dragonsteel as a "Sanderson Curiosity."

30 minutes ago, The Night Brigade said:

I know that there is some controversy on what ideal/truth shallan is on as a lightweaver and which truth gives what power and things like shardblades and plate. I have recently been thinking about this and I came up with the theory that the order of the Truths doesn't matter but the strength does(other than the first ideal). What this means is that a lightweaver who says their second truth might gain shardplate while another lightweaver says their second truth and they only gain something like extra control over soulcasting let's say. This is because the first lightweaver said a very powerful truth but the second said a weaker truth. I feel like this explains how shallan has a shardblade when we know that other lightweavers don't even though they are on the same or similar ideals. Also, if I am not mistaken I believe that Brandon said that lightweavers have something else weird about their ideals other than the fact that they speak Truths rather than a personalized aspect of a general concept. Feel free to give feedback, this is my first theory so I'm open to suggestions on how to theory craft better.

The simplest answer is that Shallan had a Shardblade before the third Ideal because that was always Testament, not Pattern. It looks like all instances of Shallan summoning a Shardblade in WoK and WoR were with Testament. When she killed Tyn, Pattern was busy calling her men, so she had to use Testament as a blade. When fighting against a Chasmfiend, Pattern had a moving illusion attached to him that was also talking (she was on the other side of the chasm, illusions had to move there and by this time she could have done this only by attaching it to Pattern, the same with is with talking) so Kaladin had to have Testament as a blade. Everytime Shallan summoned a Shardblade in WoR she manifested Testament.

Speaking more powerful Truths won't unlock higher Ideal powers as those come from the Nahel Bond itself. The higher Ideal you are, the stronger the bond is, the more powers you get. You get a Shardblade because your bond with a spren is strong enough to allow them to manifest in PR. You get a Shardplate because your bond is even stronger and you can manifest Lesser Spren as a plate, as they are Connected to your True Spren and to you. You can't really skip that progression because if your bond is strong enough to manifest a Shardplate it has to be strong enough to manifest a Shardblade. Soulcasting isn't locked by progression for Lightweavers (only the Surge of Division is locked among all orders of Radiants, Skybreakers unlock it at the 3rd Ideal, possibly Dustbringers too, but no other order has a Surge locked like this), Shallan had big troubles with mastering this Surge, her Ligthweavers are better at it than she is, but she still can do it, and as Formless she could do it really well - this is something that her mind prevented her from mastering (or Jasnah's teaching methods), not Truths. But the order at which you say Truths shouldn't matter - If Shallan was ready, she could have said "I killed my mother" as the 2nd Truth and it would work just the same as "I killed my father" - it's all about readiness, you decide what's harder for you to accept. 

RoW ch 21:

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Though by far the most talented at illusions among her people, Shallan’s own abilities in Soulcasting had proven … erratic. Adolin had peeked in on her sessions to see only occasional lumps of grain. Other times, she accidentally created twisted things: flames, sometimes pools of blood, once a translucent crystal.
[...]
Though mastery of Soulcasting eluded her, she had improved over the year.

RoW ch 93:

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She opened her eyes, strode up to the door, and grabbed the knob with her freehand. It vanished beneath her touch. Soulcasting really was easier on this side. The knob barely cared that she asked it to change.

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

that quote just proves my point.

1. Rlain never went into combate in dull form, who didnt even learn the spear in dull form just heild one.

2. Not a single parshendi went to war in anything other then warform. 

3.  im not argue with dradon your just using him out of context. 

You do understand the word "specialization," do you? Warform is a specialized form for fighting, it's much better at fighting than Workform or Nimbleform, as seen in RoW Eshonai's flashbacks. Rlain learned to fight with a spear in WoR off pages, but being a Dullform didn't prevent him from fighting, even if he never had to fight, he still performed guard duties. They would not allow him to guard Kholins if he was unable to fight at all, the risk of assassination was too big to put someone totally unable to fight next to Dalinar. This proves that a Dullform is capable of fighting, even if it isn't that good at it, it's at least capable enough to become a guard. Therefore just as a Dullform is capable of fighting to some extent, many forms other than Mateform/Slaveform are capable of reproduction, even if they aren't that good at it.

I'm not using anything out of context, Brandon literally said what I'm quoting times and times again, which you refuse to accept. Read the WoB again.

WoR ch 47:

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He urged the man to take the spear, and Shen finally did so. “Leyten and Natam practice in the mornings with a few men. They’re willing to help you learn so that you don’t have to train with the greenvines.”

WoR ch 50:

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And . . . why was there a parshman wearing a guardsman uniform, holding a spear with the others?

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. No fear Malen form cant even grow a beard i doudt it can get hard. 

I do not understand you. Malen Warforms have beards.

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

2. at the very least malen is asexual i doudt he would have any interest in sex consenual  or otherwise. 

Yes, I agree. Malen/Femalen is asexual, they don't feel any sexual attraction. But I've already given you examples of why a Malen/Femalen form would want to engage in those forms rather than in Mateform. 

That's the last response from me. I'm repeating myself as there is nothing more to add as the WoB I've provided is definite.

7 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

"To speak of what might be is forbidden." Why? It is implied that this is because the power originates with Odium, but that's a bad reason.  Practical people use whatever tools they have and prepare as best they can.  The prohibition is about keeping secrets.  The real secret that caused the recreance or the storm father's secrets.  There is only one reason though to never think about the future.  Honor knew; they're all doomed.  They have to fight anyway. Sacrifices to buy time for the Cosmere.  So Honor lied to give them a terrible false hope.  I think it killed Tanavast to do it.  He acted against the intent of the shard.   What do you think Honor doesn't want people to know about the future?

Yes, at least one reason is that Honor isn't that good at looking at the future, he admitted it himself, WoK ch 75:

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The gure squinted at the horizon. “I cannot see the future completely. Cultivation, she is better at it than I. It’s as if the future is a shattering window. The further you look, the more pieces that window breaks into. The near future can be anticipated, but the distant future … I can only guess.”

But I think you're right. Honor wasn't that honorable as his name suggests. He doomed Roshar on purpose, to protect Cosmere from Odium, deceived humanity to fight a war that was already lost and he tried to keep it secret from them. All of this was done to keep Odium in Rosher, no matter the cost, even if he really cared about people.

On 3/31/2024 at 11:05 AM, Oltux72 said:

I am sorry, but that does not work purely numerically. There are at most 12 systems with Shards in residence.

Shadesmar is still their primary means of trade. These numbers preclude perpendicularities to be mostly limited to worlds with Shards.

(Sunlit Man)

  Hide contents

The Cosmere must have hundreds if not thousands of worlds. Otherwise escaping by skipping to a random world would not work.

 

I was going to agree with you, but I looked at some WoBs and AU and I have to say you're wrong. Yes, perpendicularities happen naturally on worlds with no Shard. But this isn't something common. Usually perpendicularities are a sign of a Shardic presence. That's why the First of the Sun is unique as there is no Shard there, but a perpendicularity still appeared. Arcanum Unbounded the Drominad system essay:

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In general, perpendicularities are created by the presence of a Shard on the planet. [...]
The existence of a perpendicularity (which often take the form of pools of concentrated power on the Physical Realm) on a planet is a hallmark of a Shard’s presence. This is what makes First of the Sun so interesting. [...]
All four of these planets have water as a dominant feature. And one of them, the first planet, has a perpendicularity.
I have not been able to discover why, or how, this perpendicularity exists. There is certainly no Shard residing in the system. I cannot say what is happening, only that this feature must hint at things that occurred in the past of the planet. 

Yes, Patji is an Avatar of Autonomy, but Autonomy didn't invest in the First of the Sun, she used investiture present there from before the Shattering. A world without any Shard has enough investiture on it to form a perpendicularity, but something needs to be done with it first. Yolen also has a perpendicularity. Threnody doesn't but the way to access it is specifically related to Ambition being Splintered nearby. 

Even though there is a perpendicularity on the First of the Sun, there is no trade happening between realms because of how dangerous Patji is. Not every place in Cosmere has to be connected via trade routes. Silverlight is the main hub in Shadesmar, there are probably other places in CR like that, even on planets without a perpendicularity. But trade seems to be mostly limited to major Shardworlds. What I mean by this is that trade in Shadesmar doesn't have to go from one planet to another, it can go from one location in CR to another in CR, some of those are on a planet - but Silverlight is a prime example that PR isn't needed for trade in Shadesmar. There are locations in Emberdark of interest, some of those can be connected via trade too and as technology advances, more of those locations would be connected via spaceships, locations that are inaccessible from PR.

Most humans originated from Yolen, they've traveled across Cosmere to settle on different planets. So your way of thinking is correct - there had to be perpendicularities there to allow them to enter the PR of those planets. But people can travel between planets without perpendicularities - they can make their own. That's how Ashynites migrated to Roshar, they've created their own perpendicularity. A large concentration of investiture will pierce three realms, creating a gateway. SA5 reading spoilers:

TSM spoilers:

Some WoBs:

12 hours ago, Aredor said:

Circling back here, I think this line of thinking has merit. However, I posit a different idea. I think that BAM was made by both Honor and Cultivation like the Sibling before being unmade, giving her the third syllable. I'm reminded of this WoB:

  Reveal hidden contents

LewsTherinTelescope

Does "Ba-Ado-Mishram" mean "child of the light of Cultivation and Honor"?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, but you're doing a pretty good job picking apart the linguistics of that.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14590

 

 

Re-Shephir, Yelig-Nar, Sja-Anat, and Dai-Gontharnis all seem like they were created by a single Shard, then after their "improvements" they were given two syllables. 

Yes, that's even better idea.

12 hours ago, Aredor said:

I don't think that Nergaoul, Moelach, Chemoarish, or Ashertmarn were made by other Shards. I think that Odium made them himself, and because they are all... non-sapient that shows that Odium is bad at making stuff on his own.

Or he specifically made them non-sapient, thus less invested to avoid investing too much on Roshar as he didn't want to get trapped on it.

17 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Will that be enough that we can finally stop talking about him? Love him, hate him, or just want to argue about him forever and a day...if Brandon kills him off, will we finally (I suppose there would be discussion about his death at the time, I'll concede that) be able to stop talking about him? Or, 10-20 years from now, will people still be bringing up Moash to gauge other character's actions like people still invoke hitler (ie Well they're no Moash! At least they didn't blah blah blah or It's not the same thing when they do it because blah blah blah, etc)?

No, it will never end. We will have topics like "did Moash deserve all this hate" or "death was too merciful for Moash." He will always engage our emotions and hate him or love him, that's a sign of a storming well-written character. That's why he deserves to be talked about.

20 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I think that a gun that relies solely on Allomancy to work is possible. What better silencer than a gun that doesn't use gunpowder? Granted they could just push a bullet themselves and not carry a deadly looking weapon, but a gun to point with might make it easier to aim. Line the outside with a little bit of aluminum and presto, a truly silent gun.

A better idea - buttons. They are already using buttons, but this time make them covered in an aluminum layer in front, while their back is a normal metal. Because the metal back is from your side you can push them, while from the front they would be undetectable to steelsight because of the aluminum layer. A gun that relies only on steelpushes won't have much power, so instead of having a tool that you have to aim, thus alarming all your opponents that you're gonna shoot, just position yourself to face your enemy and push buttons - they won't see it coming, they won't see them with steelsight, they might not ever see them coming at night or in Mists.  Silent and invisible weapon - but can be only used against non-armored opponents as it won't have much penetration - bullets are faster than a steelpush, a real gun is still a must have.

18 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Copperclouds do more than just protect you from Emotional Allomancy though, they also smother your Allomantic Pulses so it's far harder to Seek you. As such, it would be pretty foolish of a Mistborn to ever stop Burning copper when on a mission, and since it Burns so slowly I think having enough is going to be more or less a non-issue. 

The problem with Copperclouds is that you can't use A-bronze while burning copper, as it silences all pulses coming from the outside. Therefore an aluminum hat is still useful - you can burn bronze to hear what's going on around you, while being protected from emotional Allomancy. If you're skilled enough you can listen to emotional pulses a Soother or a Rioter sends and detect which emotion they are trying to influence, thus gain knowledge and act accordingly. TFE ch 21:

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“There are great advantages to burning bronze, rather than just running around with your copper on. True, you Smoke yourself by using copper—but in a way you also blind yourself. Copper makes you immune to having your emotions Pushed or Pulled.”
“But that’s a good thing.” Marsh cocked his head slightly.
“Oh? And what would be the greater advantage? Being immune to—but ignorant of—some Soother’s attentions? Or instead knowing—from your bronze—exactly which emotions he is trying to suppress?”
Vin paused. “You can see something that specific?”
Marsh nodded. “With care and practice, you can recognize very minute changes in your opponents’ Allomantic burnings. You can identify precisely which parts of a person’s emotions a Soother or Rioter intends to influence. You’ll also be able to tell when someone is flaring their metal. If you grow very skilled, you might even be able to tell when they’re running low on metals.”

@Longshot97 has already mentioned this, but because I write a response first then read the next post, I wrote the same thing. But hey, I provided a quote!

11 hours ago, Returned said:

2. A metal box with multiple heavy springs inside, compressed by metal plates and held by metal latches. The box itself is reasonably heavy, but the springs can contain a solid amount of energy when compressed.

Springs you said? How about an Allomantic gun that uses a spring instead of gunpowder, like @JustQuestin2004 wanted earlier? Instead of pushing on a bullet itself, you pull spring to lock it and give it energy, then release a trigger and the spring pushes a bullet out while you push on it as well to give it more energy. It's not perfect, it would be better than normal steelpush, but you would need a larger spring, thus it would make noise. 

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Agreed - though I assumed those events are related. Inhospitable for aetherbound - do you mean that the aethers can no longer survive but their hosts can? Or is Aditil going into danger shes not aware of?

Aetherbounds can no longer survive but their Aether can - Silajana is from Dhatri. Aditil is no longer an Aetherbound so she should be fine. What this inhospitality means and how it affects both an Aetherbound and their Aether is another question. Could Aditil expose her Aether to a deadly strike by bonding them?

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

These are the same 12 core aethers, no? My understanding of Lumar is that these are the same 12 core aethers, but they are unconnected to the hive mind. Like the pink crystal in Tress is the same as TwinSoul's pink crystal, just unconnected to Silajana.

They are the same Aethers as they have the same sets of elements, but they are separate beings, different. Aethers don't have a hive mind. So yes, the roseite crystal is the same, but it came from two separate entities. Lumar's roseite Aether is a different entity from the Dhatri's roseite Aether, but they both are a roseite Aether - that's how I view it. 

"at least on the core aether world" which means Aethers on other worlds are separate entities from the one on Dhatri.

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

What I meant by mostly physical:

Aethers are a physical thing with a Spiritual component, while Shards are Spiritual things with physical components.

I agree.

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

(Now that I think about it Aethers dont have to be Spiritual at all. Their distance connection could easily be explained as a cognitive Connection instead of Spiritual. I think they are spiritual in some aspects but I realized they dont have to be. )

No it can't be - CR is location dependent, distance matters there. It would take years for Silajana to answer Prasanva from another planet. They can communicate instantly, that means it goes through SR. Plus Lumar's Aethers transfer water from the planet to themselves via Luhal Bond, which is spiritual.

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I wouldn't say that a splintering is actually killing the Shard. The vessel, absolutely, but the Shard itself cannot actually be destroyed. Yes, I know, Investiture cannot be created or destroyed, but if we look past the pedanticness, things can absolutely be destroyed. Yes, there is still a spiritual imprint of Teft, but by my definition Teft was destroyed. Especially since there is a wob (that i cant find) that states that once someone's soul has reached the beyond they cannot ever be brought back from that. Which is pretty definitively destroying Teft. The energy that made up Teft is still there but that isn't Teft any more than the Stormlight in a gem is Teft. 

 

Honor is dead - completely splintered. However, Stormlight still powers Surgebinding. This is what I was getting at with shards dying not removing the magic system. In addition, that Stormlight is still restricted by Honor's intent - even though the Shard is 'dead'. 

A Shard is a combination of both the mind and the power. The mind can be killed - the Vessel - and the power ripped to pieces - the Splintering - but the power can't be destroyed. The same applies to all things to be fair.

A soul and a spiritweb are two different things. A spiritweb is measurable, existing in SR, a soul is something unknown, unmeasurable, which passes to the Beyond, which is also unknown. We don't know and won't know if souls or the Beyond exist in Cosmere. But the spiritweb stays in SR even after death. You can revive a body, so I'm quite sure you can revive a dead spiritweb too. So yes, Teft's spiritweb is still there in SR and it's not just energy. Both terms are used interchangeably and in this case this is wrong, because a spiritweb doesn't go to the Beyond.

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

My assumption with Aditil is that her aether died because the worlds aether died, not that she made a personal choice that resulted in the death. If it was her decision that resulted in its death, then yes, it is basically the same thing as the Radiant bond - loss of powers.

Ok, I think we have a different view of what an Aether is. For me an Aether is both an entity and an essence - which is the body of that entity. When Prasanva grows an Aether, he actually grows the body of Silajana - Silajana can sense things through that body. In my understanding an Aetherbound can't have a dead symbiote without the core Aether-entity being dead. It may be possible for an Aetherbound to break the bond and that might kill the body of their core-Aether, without killing the entity, but I wouldn't call that their "symbiote is dead" as the entity is still alive. So I view this statement from the reading as the core Aether, the actual entity is dead, which resulted in broken Aether-essence on Aditil's body.

TLM ch 44:

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“What do you see?” Moonlight whispered.
“I don’t see anything,” he said. “But Silajana? Well, he senses a small room cluttered with shelves and small objects. No one is inside, and the wall to the right of the window bears no shelving.”

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

However if her aether died because her worlds aether died, then that absolutely points to the Aethers being much less powerful than a Shard. Honors death did not break the Radiants bonds - they had to choose that themselves. 

But Honor doesn't give them power directly, does he? Aethers do that, the entity is more important then raw power in their case. A Shardic magic system isn't directly created by Shards, it's a natural manifestation of their power in the physical realm. Aethers form a symbiotic bond, they grant power directly to their Aetherbound - without them, the power can't be given. In my opinion those two things aren't comparable. Like Aditil can't connect to her Aether because they're dead, but Rosharans can't connect to Honor as well because he's dead - they connect to the Stormfather instead who was set up as Honor's replacement and Honor's CR, he accepts Radiants Ideals now. Cultivation still is the one that accepts Ideals from her half of Orders - Willshapers for example. Radiants can't have power without being connected to a living entity - a spren, just like Aetherbound can't have powers without being connected to a living entity - an Aether. So no, I don't agree that the entire magic system is gone after Aditil's Aether died - Aetherbounding still exists after all, you just can't connect to that Aether because you need a conscious agreement. Luhel Bond isn't gone. But just like Nahel Bond is broken once one side of agreement dies, Luhal Bond is broken when an Aether dies - but the magic system is not gone. 

Comparing an entire magic system of Surgebinding to an individual Aetherbound isn't valid.

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Its interesting that the Shards are referred to in their 'formal' name (Endowment, Honor, Odium, etc) vs their personal name (Edgli, Tanavast, Rayse) while the Aethers are almost exclusively referred to in their personal name (Silajana). Im not sure what that means but its interesting. 

Shards are powers with a mind, Aethers are just beings, they aren't like Shards. They are independent from Adonalsium thus those rules don't apply to them. 

On 3/28/2024 at 7:15 PM, CtrlAltDepressed said:

However, for the aether to be destroyed they must persist as a physical thing, rather than a physical manifestation of something spiritual (like god metals). 

Oh, I just remembered this WoB, Aethers are a physical manifestation of investiture, the essence is a kind of god metal. It's investiture in a physical form (duh, it reacts to base metals):

19 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

There USED to be a perpendicularity on Dhatri. This has so many implications. I'm just going to go through my thought process, please tell me where your opinion differs or alternative theories. 

Well, we've already seen three perpendicularities that were destroyed - all on Scadrial, the Well of Ascension, Ruin's perpendicularity in the Pits of Hathsin and the Autonomy's perpendicularity under Bilming. It's not that unique, stuff can happen. They aren't permanent. 

Dhatri is a home world of Prasanva, which was invaded by the Dark Aether, making it inhospitable for Aetherbound. That's definitely related. The fact that this force was likely able to kill an Aether is a big deal in my opinion, far greater than the disappearing perpendicularity that someone could have drunk for example. 

19 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This is huge to me. In my head, this is definitive proof that the aethers are not anywhere close to as powerful as even one shard. A vessel can be killed, and a shard splintered, but that does not completely negate the magic system as the Dhatri scenario is presenting.

The way of accessing powers are vastly different between a Shard and an Aether. An Aetherbound is in a symbiotic bond with their Aether, accessing the power of a Shard you have many ways, depending on the magic. Honor isn't responsible for granting powers to people directly - spren are. Killing a spren results in the same thing as killing an Aether, losing the access to the power - Teft was left powerless after Phendorana was killed. The nature of Knight Radiants is similar to that of Aetherbound, as they both form a symbiotic relationship with a being that gives them powers. The difference here is with their reach, a Radiant will lose their powers if they got separated from their spren on a relatively short scale, while an Aether is basically omnipresent (just like Shards are) - TwinSoul remained in contact with Silajana even on another planet. 

The fact that an Aether can communicate and grant powers to someone on the other side of Cosmere means they are significantly invested. Are they equally invested in Shards? Debatable of course, Aethers claim they are as a collective. But there are many Aethers, more than the number of Shards - 12 alone on Lumar, 12 on Dhatri (one dead now), many others on other planets as they've spread across Cosmere. So while individually they seem to be weaker than a Shard, but still very powerful, collectively they might be able to rival one or all Shards in raw power (though they might be far more limited in using that power than a Shard is). 

20 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

A shard could never be fully destroyed like this, and its quite shocking that it can happen to the aether if all of my assumptions are correct.

Investiture, just like energy can't be destroyed, it can only change state. Shards can die like Aethers can and that dead Aether still left a broken pieces on an Aetherbound's body - the Aether isn't entirely gone, it's dead, but something was probably left behind (that's why , just like a Splintered Shard is dead, but not entirely gone, leaving behind a Splintered pieces. The Aether is killed, their body and essence was not destroyed, it was just broken.

20 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This would indicate that the aethers are mostly physical while shards are mostly spiritual.

One just needs to look at Threnody to see how devastating a Splintering of a Shard can be to people in the Physical Realm. Or Sel to see how it affected the Cognitive Realm. 

But it's true, Aethers have a Physical body, that's what Aetherbound grows, that's what resides on Lumar's moons. But they still have a very significant presence in the Spiritual Realm, because of their ability to stay in contact with their Aetherbounds all across Cosmere. Shard's have a physical body as well.

20 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

What I mean by that is shards cannot ever be truly destroyed because they exist in the spiritual realm, where time and space are one. However, for the aether to be destroyed they must persist as a physical thing, rather than a physical manifestation of something spiritual (like god metals). 

Nothing in Cosmere can be truly destroyed. A soul-corpse is always left in the Spiritual Realm. Even people can be brought back no matter the state of their physical bodies - Yumi just made a body for herself out of raw investiture. Shards as a being are dead and gone after the Splintering. I do want to know if a killed Aether can be restored, just like a Splintered Shard can be reassembled. 

I don't agree that Aether must be mostly physical because they were destroyed - Spren can be "destroyed" too and they aren't "mostly" physical. I do agree that Aethers have a significant physical presence and do have a physical body, as seen on Lumar, or with Aetherbounds. Shards can be killed, their power Splintered and dragged out of the Spiritual Realm - when you "destroy" an Aether something is left behind, their power, their essence, their investiture. That's because laws of thermodynamics work in Cosmere, investiture can't be destroyed, it can only change states. A being can be killed - a Shard or an Aether die in the same way - but it leaves something behind, a dead body and raw investiture. But it can't be destroyed. And we saw that dead body of an Aether on Aditil. I wonder what you can do with it, I want to know if a killed Aether can be restored, just like a Splintered Shard can be reassembled. 

20 hours ago, Treach said:

Not to be pedantic or go on a tangent, but I'm not sure there were Honorspren when the Unmade came about. The SF only made 5 initially, and Syl bonded (her only other radiant as far as we know) close enough to the recreance that she was "asleep" and missed/was saved from it. It seems like he may have created her and the other four sometime between Aharietiam and the Recreance? Also, we know the mural in Urithiru depicts a Windspren instead of an Honorspren in the 10, which seems it would have reasoning behind it.

Honorspren existed before Aharietiam, they were created directly by Honor. There were around 2000 Honorspren killed in Recreance, all created by Honor except for Syl and her generation that was the first created by the Stormfather as Honor was dying, shortly before the False Desolation. OB ch 108:

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The captain sighed. “The honorspren were created by Honor himself, many thousands of years ago. You call him the Almighty, and … I’m afraid he’s dead.”
[...]
“Well, sometime before his death, Honor stopped creating honorspren. We don’t know why, but he asked the Stormfather to do it instead.”
[...]
“The Stormfather created only a handful of children. All of these, save Sylphrena, were destroyed in the Recreance, becoming deadeyes. This loss stung the Stormfather, who didn’t create again for centuries. When he was finally moved to remake the honorspren, he created only ten more. My greatgrandmother was among them; she created my grandfather, who created my father, who eventually created me.

RoW ch 87:

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“In total? We have some twenty deadeyed honorspren in the fortress now, though there were some two thousand honorspren alive at the time of your betrayal. A single one survived.”
“Syl,” Adolin said.
“The Ancient Daughter was in a catatonic state,” Amuna said, “and was spared. But every other honorspren—every single one—had answered the call of the Radiants during the False Desolation."

Windspren are the plate spren of Windrunners and that's also the form Honorspren often take when they are in the Physical Realm.

8 hours ago, Frumpy said:

The way that it creates fire, which we only see Dustbringers do, is because it’s a resonance with Abrasion. [...]

Please avoid necro-posting, this is against Shard's policy. This topic is almost three years old and the question is already marked as answered. Reviving such old and dead topics is not advisable. 

17 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

1. if the chance of firtalization is lowered then the chance of theses unions producing a hybred child is unlikly. it os therefore unlikly that that of the majority of the hybids  We're conceived in anything other than mate form  Or a similar form.

But it's still possible. 

17 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

2. As I said it's possible there are one Maybe 2 more but we haven't met that 1 yet so we can't be certain. However clearly most forms are Not used for mating. 

As Brandon said "Mateform is not the only form capable of producing--any more than Warform is the only one capable of swinging a sword. The forms are specializations" - even Rlain in a Dullform was able to learn how to fight with a spear in WoR. You are literally arguing with Brandon at this point. I'm not saying that all are capable of reproduction, but many, if not all are, even if most are asexual and may have reduced chances of fertilization.

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So the one who is against intervention sends out a dragon who has a very good reason to be angry and is driven by relative powerlessness to action?

Or Frost is taking care of a mess Starling did on Yolen, while she is exiled from her beloved home and her powers were taken away from her, so she would not mess things up again - all to teach her a lesson of some kind. Maybe she's on Xisis' ship so they can watch over her.

17 hours ago, Longshot97 said:

Inherently, a Feruchemist tapping Connection could make animals more trusting. So, this isn't a huge step forwards.

But, yeah. This was just fun to type out. Thoughts?

Connection can allow you to break into a Hemalurgic Construct and once under your control, you can talk to them in their mind, but you don't hear their thoughts. This approach might require a cracked soul, if not Hemalurgic spikes, but this might be possible with animals. I wouldn't say you're gonna talk with them, more like you will communicate your thoughts to them, but it would be more like Vin talking to Koloss-Human - they would be very confused and had a hard time understanding you. They still don’t have a very developed brain or speech. This would be more useful with dogs who can understand some of your words, gestures and the tone of your voice.

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

But in that case she already would have left Yolen.

That's not necessary. She could have met Hoid on Yolen and done something on Yolen, which was against Frost's ideology. We know from the reading that she started exploring Cosmere after being exiled.

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There was at least one blessing about being exiled: it turned out that there were a whole lot of places that weren’t home—and many of them were vibrant, magnificent, and amazing. She’d never have visited them if she hadn’t been forced out into the cosmere against her will.

15 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

1.  Another wob he calls them neuter gender That strongly implies they're infertile.

This WoB is newer and Brandon directly said many forms are capable of reproducing. This is as straightforward as it can be.

15 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

2. This isn't an either or,  you can be both asexual and infertile in fact. In a biological sense if you're in a infirtle gender it only makes sense for you to be asexual  And vice versa.

And you can also be fertile and asexual. 

15 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

3.  Even if We grant that they are only a sexual in other forms. Why would you as a singer Reproduce in an asexual form. If you wish to reproduce. Why not switch to a form that could appreciate sex more. That only makes sense.

Many reasons. You want to lower your chances of fertilization (but it still happened), you don't like being in the Mateform, you just have an opportunity now as your partner is leaving shortly and you can't wait for a storm to change forms, you didn't become a Mateform unlike your partner (it happened before Listeners started using gemstones to trap spren), or maybe something tragic happened and it wasn't consensual. Does it make sense now?

15 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

4.  Granted that phrasing of "several"  Could imply 1 or 2 more

The definition of "several" from Oxford Languages is "more than two but not many." Mateform and Slaveform aren't the only forms that feel sexual attraction, but this is separate from being able to reproduce. Asexuallity doesn't mean infertility, those things are separate.

20 hours ago, Kfish said:

What did Gavilar set in motion that Thaidakar couldn't stop?

Thaidakar set things in motion, that were coming anyway:

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“You can’t ‘grow beyond’ the tide, Gavilar,” Thaidakar replied. “You swim with it or get swept away. The things we’ve started are in motion. And to be honest, I don’t know that we did that much. I think that tide was coming whatever we did.”

I believed it's about starting a True Desolation by sending a Herald to Braize. And so it happens that a Herald died just a moment later. Hmmm, I wonder who it could be - Chana of course. Ghostbloods were highly interested in the Davar family, Mraize knows too much about Shallan's childhood, I wouldn't be surprised if Ghostbloods arranged things that resulted in Chana's death, thus starting a new Desolation.

That's also something Gavilar wanted to achieve so their goals aligned - probably that is why Thaidakar decided to work with him. 

14 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I'd argue that while the influence fades, we see with Rashek and perhaps Kelsier that it doesn't necessarily disappear.

Possible. He stagnated the Empire for a thousand of years, but it took some time to establish this system, he even tried to end it at one point, so I don’t think this is solely because of being a Sliver. He seems like a nostalgic person (which was partially influenced by Ruin), buried in the past and most importantly just bored. He didn't really care as long as he stayed in charge. I feel like he was just that kind of person, but it's possible that being a Sliver of Preservation had some small, lasting effects on his mind. 

Kelsier is a Cognitive Shadow so his situation is a bit different.  

18 hours ago, The Stick said:

Another thing I have been considering at length is if this would be the end of all disease. We know Progression isn't too great at healing disease. However, we do know that enough Breaths(I forget the amount) can cure all diseases, as we saw with Vienna. The question is that do these diseases return after the breath is taken away. Because otherwise, doctors could theoretically treat every disease just by infusing someone with a few hundred breaths, then taking them back a few seconds later.

Buying hundreds of Breaths to get rid of an illness seems like a very expensive thing. Sure they might get cheaper in the future, especially if you can exchange investiture, but buying/borrowing an unkeyed Goldmind or a Progression Fabrial seems like a much cheaper alternative.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Frost seems to be quite influential, having a palace, a throne and personal priests. You are raising an important question. Who dared put his niece in shackles? Do dragons have a government powerful enough to do that? If so, what was important enough to antagonize Frost?

I actually thought that it was Frost that exiled her for some reason. Knowing how strictly non-interventionist Frost is, Starling might have been pushed by Hoid to do something with which Frost might not agree. Something drastic, which influenced politics on a greater scale and possibly against dragon’s traditions, so other dragons would want to exile her and Frost agreed with them.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

How come they have prejudices about dragons? Does that mean that Yolen has come out of seclusion?

Dragons exist outside of Yolen. One only needs to look at Xisis on Lumar to know how many different stories about dragons might exist across Cosmere.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Why does Xisis sink low enough to own a ship crewed with misfits?

Dragons are entrepreneurs, they have businesses, own companies etc. I bet Xisis is exploiting the fact that he recently acquired a skilled captain, so why not use her to run him merchant errands across Cosmere? But the choice of crewmembers is interesting.

23 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

And even more fundamental, why has the avatar not reacted to Scadrians enroaching on the autonomy of First of the Sun?

If Scadrians have a way to deal with Avatars (they kind of dealt with Trell already), then it makes sense why Patji would sit quietly. If not then that's a good question. But I think the answer is simple - he sent Dusk. Patji might have put Dusk in a position to help.

17 hours ago, Nesh said:

I simply meant that Hoidtaking Starling as an apprentice mighr have been, or led to the event that got Starling banished.

I agree, I think Hoid is partially responsible for that.

2 hours ago, The flying spider said:

I guess this would explain why Xisis is in such a bad situation.

DId I miss something from the reading where it said Xisis is in a bad position? I didn't get that. Sure, the ship is old and junky, Xisis owns it, but Starling also said it's her ship. So if someone is in debt, I bet they're indebted to Xisis, risking becoming his slaves - not all as Aditil can just leave, or the Sleepless who was chosen by Hoid and it's there temporarily.

10 hours ago, The Stick said:

TSM spoilers

  Hide contents

I do very much believe that there is a possibility that the entirety of Canticle is just one giant metal mind. Maybe because the people perceive the Invested sunlight as heat-like, and it is so important to their culture, their cognitive perception could make the investiture automatically store as heat. I do think that like Marsh suddenly deciding to draw on a whole planet worth of attribute would be really cool. What would the theoretical things you could do with a small planet full of an attribute?

 

TSM spoilers:

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Hope that helps

This does help a lot. Thanks.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Exactly the second form is slave form I mentioned it already.   All  Other forms are in the neuter gender  And Therefore infertle.  My point still stands. 

"Several forms are different in terms of being asexual, including Slaveform" - not only Slaveform is different (important note: asexuality means not feeling a sexual attraction, but such a person is still fully capable of having kids). And "Matefore isn't the only one capable of reproducing, it's specialization" - the WoB clearly states that many forms are capable of having children, even if some of them don't feel any sexual attraction. Mateform is the most specialized form for reproduction, but others are also capable of doing it, just like other forms can swing a sword, not just Warform. 

3 hours ago, Etedbert said:

Another piece of evidence is the effect large quantities of investiture has on a spiritual web

SUNLIT MAN SPOILERS

  Reveal hidden contents

We see that Nomad’s time holding the Dawnshard has irrevocably twisted his spirit web to be in-line with the intent of the Dawnshard, giving him the “Torment”

basically, I think that a shard’s child would (in addition to being highly invested) inherit aspects of their parent’s spiritual DNA. I think they would be in some way bound to the same shardic intent as their parent. I.E. if Honor had a child, they would be committed strongly to the same ideals as their father.

Well, Shardic Intent is not writing itself onto the Spirit Web of the Vessel, it is just influencing their mind. If a Vessel were to drop their Shard, the influence of its Intent over their mind would eventually fade. But they will remain a Sliver, which is an expanded soul, and that might be inherited to some degree.