alder24

I would say it's similar to how Wax almost died in BoM. Both had their bodies broken and unable to live any further, but they were repaired fast enough so their souls could go back to it - and that's what Nale's fabrial did, heal Szeth's body before his soul went to the beyond. His afterimage is not visible to everybody but to those with sufficient Investiture or connection to the Cognitive Realm. It may be that this fabrial reconnected his soul to his body or strengthen that connection when it was weakening - it was not perfect.

Or just that his body stoped working, but it still takes time for brain to stop as well, so when body got repaired, brain was still alive.

Quote

Questioner

How did Nale bring Szeth back to life?

Brandon Sanderson

Szeth's spirit had not moved onto the Beyond. It was basically Rosharan CPR. He repaired the body, and Szeth was not dead dead. His heart had stopped, but when his body came back together, it started beating again.

FanX 2021 (Sept. 16, 2021)

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Venli can also tell what spren is bonded in a singers gemheart. And I highly doubt that Kandra have souls that look anything at all like humans

Each spren is different and easily recognisable. Kandra were human once, so their souls might be very close to human soul.

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

As long as the wielder has investiture they will be safe.

He would consume exponentially more and more, he won't be safe. He would have to have Dalinar feeding him all time, but even that at some point might not be enough. Not to mention extreme pain it causes to use Nighblood. And you've got one city of 5 mil people to destroy, with diameter of around 15 km. That's long and painful trip.

11 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Szeth never swore to follow the law.

Quote

 

I swear to seek justice, to let it guide me, until I find a more perfect Ideal. 

Do you think it's just to vaporise buildings, houses, factories full of innocent people, harming and killing them in process? It's just to kill non-combatant people? It's just to cause harm on civilians? It's just to causing hunger, homelessness and destruction of private properties?

15 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Would you like to restore the discussion to the original premise that both worlds are united and we ignore off world magic?

I am more than willing to agree to that, I was only bringing Nightblood in because the discussion changed the premise.

We changes premise to better predict what can be done and be realistic. United Roshar and Scadrial is not possible. We don't know what Malwish can do, what technology they have, we know almost nothing about them, so it's hard to place them in that conflict. We know more about Fused and Parsh, but still there is a lot of things we don't know about them, only 7/9 types of Fused were presented to us. On both worlds both factions are either in war or are hostile. Do you think that was not reasonable to do? We have hard time speculating what Roshar can do in 10 years.

The only reasonable Ghostbloods interference I talked about was to pass information about incoming attack, and maybe some more about enemy Scadrial will face - despite that the main Ghostbloods goal is to protect Scadrial, so it's unreasonable to exclude them from active protection. Yet I think their unique skills change nothing in bigger war picture.

I don't know if you noticed but I tend to avoid talking about what metalborns can do with their fancy abilities, and focus more on what regular people, tactics, war effort and logistic can achieve instead, as that's more important in war than useful but extremely limited and rare powers. The same way I treat Roshar, but with little bigger role of Radiants. 

It is reasonable to bring in Nightblood? Yes, he's part of Dalinar's coalition, in hand of Skybreaker, who would most likely be part of invasion force. So it's reasonable and logical to include him. But does it make sense for us to bring him in? It's Nightblood, nothing can counter it, it killes Vessels, chops off parts of Honorblades, collapses perpendicularieties, and consumes souls for breakfast. The only downsides to Nightblood are morality of its usage and his constant need for Investiture. So yes, he can be used the way you propose, with breaks so wielders won't get consumed. It can't be countered. It's Nightblood

What is the point of further discussion then? I could counter everything you say with H-T bomb, and you could counter with Anti-light bomb, and then we are in the middle of nowhere, achieving nothing.

To be fair, I feel like we're slowly reaching end of discussion. We talked about how different powers could be used in this war, how they could be countered, how they could be protected from countering them etc. Less about general tactics, strategies and logistics in this war. Still a lot of fun and weird thnigs can happen in that war. We reached no conclusion or agreement, that's fine.
I do agree that Radiants are powerful and hard to fight with, and they will be spearhead of Rosharian advance. Roshar is a formidable opponent, but only Radiants are saving them. Yet I hope that at least,  with the assumptions we've made, I have shown that Scadrial can do damage, can be very hard to conquer and control. They can do a lot and have a real chance to defend themself successfully, which would be very difficult to do. Without those assumptions I still think that any interplanetary invastion for those two is impossible logistically and militarily in current time. Maybe within next eras it will change.

On 6.12.2022 at 9:08 PM, Ookla the Monk said:

do you think Adolin sucks?

No.

Adolin was my favorite PoV in RoW. He turned our eyes away from people with god like powers, and grand war theater to more grounded, non-powered person, with regular problems, like diplomatic mission, saving his marriage, dealing with his father's past etc. Adolin is the last non-powered character who still is PoV(exept Navani who become Bondsmith) and I think that's important, as we can easily forget how Desolation is viewed by regular people. We already lost unique Interludes that used to show us new parts of Roshar with new characters. Adolin gives us this opportunity as he also is good, social and empathetic person, thinking and taking care of people weaker and lower than he is. Which was greatly shown during Battle of Thaylen.

He has flaws, he is spoiled and entitled, but he's not behaving like that. He chooses to be nice to everyone, to make them laugh, have fun together, and help those who need this. He is a good person who knows what are his responsibilities, what is his position, and what can he do with what he got for betterment of others. He accepts his lower position in new world with Radiants and Surges and still tries to make a difference.

And he does not have anger issue. How would you face someone who betray you and left you to die on a battlefield? Someone who betray your best friend Brigdeboy? Someone who hurt your friend and used her as a tool? How would you face your father who killed your mother? Adolin has every right to be angry and he still hold back quite well. But I agree, I was hoping for some repercussion for killing Sadeas.

Moreover his duels and fight scenes are just great. Fight with Tukari was perfect.

Here's another WoB

Quote

Questioner

If someone out of Roshar knows the Immortal Words, and he's, for example, a kandra, can he become a Knight?

Brandon Sanderson

So, becoming a Knight Radiant is up to the spren, right? Saying the Ideals, swearing the oaths, these sorts of things, you have to convince a piece of sapient Investiture that you deserve it, and that's the main thing.

Questioner

And the kandra?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the kandra would have to lots of fast talking, and there are a few more difficulties involved, but this is theoretically possible. For instance, taking some pieces of Investiture offworld are difficult.

Warsaw signing (March 18, 2017)

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I don't know, but Venli can tell that Leshwi is coming down the tower before she gets there

I reread first RoW Venli chapter, she can tell this because Fused's souls are different from Listners's one, and she was coming from above. And your WoB you posted few days ago about recognising differences in souls mention that it's a skill to learn and master. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

By the description I got the impression that it was set to ignore each person specifically, but it could be people already in range.

In WoK Rysn "set the fabrial on people in the caravan" (translation) and doesn't specify more. But both, people already in range, and setting each person/group specifically are highly impractical in a war camp with lots of people moving in and out of range of each fabrial every moment. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The Codes of War specifically say to never be drunk and to always have a weapon. Nothing about armor.

Tbf I notice that regular armor is just rare in Brandon's books. Occasionally we got a breastplate, like one Kaladin was supposed to get in WoR and never used it (or mention it), or the one officer wore during battle on the Tower (WoK), that somehow did not protect him from cut through stomach (the very thing it is supposed to do). I got the impression that Rosharians walks into the battle in uniforms only.

Picking up a weapon is like 1 minute max, putting on an armor and fitting it in is very time consuming.

The code mostly applies to officers, but regular footman have to be always ready for battle. That means wearing an armor, or at least it won't be a wierd thing to wear an armor in a war camp, during active war, with battles happening "close by".

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

One, who cannot impersonate singers or radiants, thus limiting the number of people they can accurately mimic. And they have been on Roshar, not necessarily are there now.

Yes, singers are not part of that war, impersonating radiant is not necessary, but possible by bonding a spren. The only thing kandra from Roshar needs to do is to teach other Kandra about Roshar and languages.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

New plan, take Nightblood into the CR, go to large important cities and start stabbing buildings, factories, important people etc, until Scadrial surrenders.

Khem Khem professor Snape:

On 15.11.2022 at 7:10 PM, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Roshar doesn't get Nightblood.

You can use it as a source of information at least.

Nightblood is Nighblood, there isn't much to do about it, but it would devour its user faster than it would make significant damage to Scadrial. Like very fast, few minutes at best. Buildings don't offer much Investiture for Nightblood. Unless you are willing to sacrifice thousends of your people to be fully consumed by ever-hungry-evil-killing-soul-consuming-piece-of-happy-metal, than yes, go ahead. 

How long it will take for a people next in line to stab their officers with Nightblood instead and run away?

Edit:
Or Scadrial needs to outlaw any foreign invasion, good luck using Nighblood in hands of Szeth.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Viewing from CR will make any sneaking in impossible, and Venli was able to keep track of things in urithiru which is entirely blinding light in the CR. So the only opportunity they have is during battles, so the one they get will be random, meaning they don't know how to impersonate them.

and Alerter fabrials will prevent them from entering the camp after battle without being discovered.

It is a big advantage. But Venli was able to see only in close proximity. Covering the entire camp of tens of thousands closely packed man and spotting one Kandra in or without an armor would be extreamly hard.
And additional question - how easy is to spot kandra by soul? Did we see that in SH? Except by spikes.
And does Alerter fabrials can be set to disregard  all Rosharsians or just those who were in range of it when activated as we saw in WoK (the only place where it was used?)?

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Awareness is just senses, and Presence mental fortitude. Presense might make them resistant to sleep deprivation, but I doubt it would make them entirely immune.

Sensitive senses can prevent falling asleep (or unconscious like Mistborns are doing with burning tin) but that would not be a great experience.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

With a weapon, Dalinar didn't wear sharplate to the feasts.

Yes, because regular soldier or worker would get invited to a feasts full of nobility.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Vin needed duralumin, so it wasn't like anyone could do it.

I meant stories about allomancers controlling/hurting kandra, before TenSoon told Vin, were absent. I think so, I might be wrong.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Atium makes you future visible the moment you stop burning, and you never cloud the future of someone else.

Never? And what about someone that is carried by misting burning atium?  But you are right, they would have to burn metals constantly or in the moment Renarin is having visions - not a great chances. I did not think about it.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Given the description of the CR I doubt that is Roshar.

Right, I focused too much on redheaded people. But kandra is already on Roshar:

29 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Yeah, and he's not going to have a guard at all times? Not to mention the fact that he has dealt with assassins before, he knows how to spot someone who wants him dead.

He have guards, he had attempts on his life, but that doesn't mean that Scadrial won't try it. Only one successful attempt is needed to win the war.

31 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The supply escorts will all come from Roshar directly, they wouldn't rotate out from the main force.

And the supply between main camp and frontlines? Frontlines and guard posts? There is whole bunch of places needed to be supply and it all goes through Dalinar and only/mostly him. And Kandra eats people, so it won't be a problem for them to take on a character.

33 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

1. How do you know they don't need sleep?
2. Someone who never takes their armor off will raise suspicion

This is all without mentioning the fact that Kandra don't know any rosharan languages, and they won't have the ability to study their target, so they would be found almost immediately.

1. I don't know to be fair, but there are at least 2 bleassings that helps with that - Blessing of Presence and Blessing of Awareness. So they can manage it. 
2. They follow the Code, and are prepare to battle anytime.
MaLaan ends on Roshar, so she will learn their language and learn others.
And wouldn't translation medalions be of use here? With such strong Rosharian presence the groud might get connected to Roshar, allowing them to use medalions. What do you think about it?

39 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Like this

So it's "possible" as it's connection manipulation (which applies to anything the regular way), the same way allomancers can do it, which was forgotten utill Vin discovered it by connecting dots. Just because something is possible doesn't mean they will know about it and attempted doing that.

44 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That would make so much noise,

Maybe not foil but thin metal plates, properly made and silenced with material would be enought to look like sleeping or living in a camp.

And there would be tens of thousands of people in a camp, with whole bunch of materials, building (visible in CR not like in Roshar), metal, armor etc - spotting a Kandra in all of this will be extremely hard even if he wouldn't be that careful.

48 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That's not what's shown in battle. Kelsier burning atium doesn't protect Vin's future from being seen. It's just them, and only while burning.

But Renarin's visions works different than Kelsier fighting. And I'm talking about a very little effect. It's not hard to imagine electrum misting seeing himself being pushed on the ground, and acting before it happens by turning around, catching someone else who triped and felt and making a long lasting frendship with him. That will have an effect on Renarin's abilities. We saw that in RoW, things and people close to Renarin, are hard to be seen by Odium because Renarin sees the future and acts, changins it, which comes in conflict with every little detail in a long run. Just avoiding hole in the ground that would make misting triped changes the future. Butterfly effect.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

What?

How is Nazh's gun working? Out of topic.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

But during the battle itself he doesn't needlessly risk himself. And in the CR he can watch the battle take place.

Yes, during battle he's on the back, he can be in CR. But my point is he's not a guy that would spend the entire war in CR, he wants to be with soldiers, with officers, with camp workers, he wants to be with them, inspect camps and armies, interact with people, boost morale with his presence. And that's when he's vulnerable

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They would not be assigned as an escort. They could maybe slip on during a battle, but they wouldn't be in armor all the time. Sooner or later they will be found, and a Bondsmith will take control of them.

And why would they have guards for the perpendicularity at all, the moment any non-radiant approaches he can shut it.

Not as his escort, but supply escort. And kandra doesn't need to sleep and take off his armor. How would Bondsmith take control over kandra?
Why would they guard place where Dalinar is? Supplies has to be delivered from CR, gems to Dalinar, that requires workers not Radiants. And kandra-spy might get reassign to CR.
Kandra can also wear clothes with aluminum or metal foil sewn into it.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

He can't control it, but he does see useful futures. And Atium and electrum users would only cloud his vision while using their powers and only for themselves.

Electrum and atium mistings would cloud also people around them, just a little bit, as their interaction with others might get change or influence just wxtreamly slightly by using those metals - butterfly effect. 
And Renarin must also interpret his visions, they are useful, but not without downsides.

6 hours ago, therunner said:

Gathering invested people together is not going to be enough, not by a long shot (otherwise large gathering of Radiants would be opening perpendicularities all the time, they are far more invested then Mistings), even Set (who had help from Autonomy) was gathering a lot of raw Investiture into artificial Shardpool.

And finally, Scadrial lacks the realmatic knowledge to know to even try for this. At best they could try to replicate what Set was doing, but that required help from Autonomy, so they would not succeed.

I did say that they might try to imitate what Set was doing, and gather metalborns and Investiture in one place. And that was just one of few propositions on how to get into CR. Placing too much Harmonium in one place can make perpendicularity just by itself. So Harmonium and metalborns might create perpendicularity. It's speculations at this point of how much Automomy was necessary there, did she just provide raw investiture or there was something more that she needed to do, I do agree that there might be something more to it, it's most likely, we don't know for sure yet.
But Scadrial might try to replicate that, and they know that Harmonium itself might colapse into perpendicularity. Allik was concerned that Wax might store too much Harmonium in one place, despite Wax thinking that he doen't have that much Harmonium, so we don't know how much Harmonium is needed for it, and it's hard to predict.
Moreover Scadrial has most likely 2 Harmony's perpendicularities, one is safely guarded far in the south (by Malwish?), and second one might be in southern Roughs (newspaper article).

This idea isn't my main point or important one at all. I know that it has limitations and might not work. I don't give it that much attention, as there are better alternatives, but Scadrial still might try doing that and at this point we don't know what would happen.

1 hour ago, therunner said:

Just a quick note, the perpendicularity forming was due to Autonomy, which can open perpendicularities when they should not be able to (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509/#e15948), though some preconditions are apparently necessary.
So, without influence of Autonomy that perpendicularity would not form.

Yes, Autonomy was involved in this one for sure. However I failed to see how this WoB proves that ONLY Autonomy/Shard can do it. Autonomy is heavily invested on Taldain, making her bound to it and unable to leave and manifest perpendicularity on different planets. Somehow, she is doing it, when she shouldn't. If the same preconditions were met without Shard influence, then perpendicularity might form, as we don't now what are those conditions. And we know making perpendicularities is not something only for shards, and anyone can do it.

2 hours ago, therunner said:

It hurts Scadrial in the sense that without Harmony's perpendicularity they have no way to access CR, and so cannot attack or harass Rosharan supply lines, or pursue units which retreat there, or strike strategic targets stashed there (i.e. Dalinar).

A little yes, but Roshar has half its logistic roads cut off. I would say still that Roshar is hurt more than Scadrial, as for Scadrial they would still have to sneak past Rosharians or take it by force.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

With proper knowledge on how to make them what stops Roshar from making guns?

We've already talked about it. Making guns requires more than Roshar has. Soulcasting won't make it.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I was thinking something more along the lines of Nahz's shadeguns

But that's no Nightblood. And how that works still?

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And he has some problem not personally attending battles despite doing it multiple times in WoK and WoR?

No, he don't yet he still like being present on/near a battlefield, even if periodically, like in WoK, WoR, WoR. His presence with soldiers boost their morale, makes them proud and more disciplined - he would still wander among regular soldiers and camp workers just to help with his visit. That's the man he is.

2 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You would have to practically put them inside a suit of armor, and somehow find a way to stand directly where the perpendicularity would open despite the fact that they have no way to see the CR.

Which is a regular piece of armor of an late medieval period? Chainmail, partially plated armor, full plate armor etc - that's a norm. They just need to be close to it to rushed toward it when he opens it. With him being a spy for longer, he could get assigned as an escort for a cargo, or guard in close proximity to it.

2 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And I was just thinking Roshar has multiple people who can see the future, so they can adapt to Scadrian strategies before they even have to face them, or to prepare ambushes or counter attacks.

And those are, except enlightenment Thruthseekers? If you are counting Death Rattles I would stop you right here. Renarin can't see-see the future, he won't be able to see war strategy of Scadrial, or battlefield tactics and deployment. Ane electrum and atium users will interfere with Renarin's visions. And it's not like he can control what he sees.

8 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why ask for a single gun and not the knowledge on how to make them?

Though if you could get a nightblood version of a gun...

Which Roshar has no ability to make? 

I doubt you could get Nightblood-gun from Nightwatcher. How would that gun even work? It would consume bullets you're trying to fire. And Nightblood-bullet would consume the gun. Unless made of aluminium, but than good luck finding, recovering and reloading the gun, you have to put it back in new cartridge case with gunpowder in it, which would be consumed by the bullet. But that's a fun idea. Scary but fun. Like shooting mini black holes.

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And providing his forces with stormlight isn't support?

It is, but Dalinar is doing it on the battlefield, not in Urithiru far away from it.

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The Set was bringing in pure investiture already, that wasn't because of the community.

TLM ch 59, both pure investiture and invested individuals are important in creating perpendicularity. That one was a surprise to the Set, as they did not expect it to be there and had to cover it from the community.

18 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Because as much as it hurts them it hurts Scadrial a thousand times more.

Scadrial doesn't use it, don't rely on CR at all, so it doesn't hurt Scadrial. It hurts Roshar as they can have 2 ways into CR, and move Dalinar so him and perpendicularity can both supply different fronts of the war.

20 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Yeah, so move an oathgate over to Scadrial

We've already talk about it, I'm not jumping back into that hole again.

21 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You can tell just by the soul, like how you can tell apart humans, singers, regals and fused.

Yes you can, but armor is made out of metal, metal is glowing in Scadrial's CR, blinding anyone looking at it - put a person in a metal armor and their soul can't be looked at in CR.

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Curses are personal. Someone doesn't go and get a bag full of gems only to find that an earthquake hit.

Yes, he can get personally tied to the gun as he's the only one that gun will allow to use. 

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

No it wouldn't. There is nothing in the code about leading from behind the lines, Dalinar does just that in RoW.

Leading behind the lines is different than staying in a bunker of some sorts. Dalinar still is in the battlefields, just not fighting but as a support.

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That would probably take millions of metalborn.

As it took few dozens and a few years in TLM, few hundreds/thousands might manifest it in several weeks/months. That's enough.

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The one that Roshar would have long since taken, and soulcasted a giant block on top of to keep it from being used?

 Why would they crippled their logistic and supply chains by doing that? Even if they have a Bondsmith that can make a perpendicularity, having a second way in is much more better.

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

He could see their soul, and tell that they were a Kandra because of that.

And what if that kandra would wear a metal armor? It would be hard to see it's soul and differentiate him from Roshar troops under all that metal. No spikes visible in CR.

17 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I was just thinking that yesterday.

So short and fast. Feels good.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Roshar has hundreds of thousands of candidates. One infantryman less won't make a difference.

What if the curse would be that only he, or nobody, can use what he got?

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Adolin does(and only because they were following him and he has protagonist powers), none of the spren do.

Pepole living in CR and more accustom to different nationalities presence there also might find Tukari weird, and then it's just gossip.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You assume that they were only from Autonomy, there are a lot of Cosmere forces that have an interest in keeping Harmony as impotent as possible.

I did not assume, I just asked.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Inside joke. One guy on the last thread would quote coppermind articles a lot. Which on it's own wasn't a problem, but he refused to give the sources behind them, and treated them as a source unto themselves.

Oh, don't worry, I'll be different. I will refuse to give sources cause I won't be able to find them

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

In order to sneak past all the defenses needed without being noticed they would need a steelmind the size of a person stuffed to the brim with speed. And if he stays in the CR then Scadrial can't do anything about it and he can still recharge stormlight.

OR he needs a distraction, a diversion, a surprise attack. And then he sneaks into Dalinar's bathroom. 
Yeah, CR is a problem, but Dalinar isn't a coward and won't hide when his man are dieing. Staying in CR would be agaist the Code.
But what if, than Scadrial can focus their metalborns in one place, wait for perpendicularity to form, and then make surprising attack on unprotected CR and Dalinar in there. Or they can try sneaking into Harmony's perpendicularity. Or kandra spy with the spike waiting for Dalinar to open perpendicularity from CS.

These are the shortest responses that we've made here so far. Weird.

There are some great ideas here, especially @slavagh, seams very likely.

I doubt it will be something else than a duel, as Odium told Taravangian during his deal with him, it's binding not by the words, that can be differently interpreted, but by the spirit of it. Dalinar is convinced it will be a fight to death.

I think the loophole was already foreshadowed to us twice - Hoid told Jasnah a story about person who always bets only on win or lose, but he lost to someone who made him draw and second time in a Death Rattle. The contract Dalinar and Odium made, specify what happens in case of Dalinar victory and defeat, but not a single word about a draw - what will happen if both contestants would withdraw or both be killed. When duel ends in draw, the contract no longer apply, and Odium would be freed of it. 

The first ever Death Rattle in whole series foreshadows this, and we all know what Brandon likes to do with this.

Quote

The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice. We are his. Oh Stormfather... we are his. It is but a thousand days, and the Everstorm comes.

"We are his" probably refers to the origin of Humans and their first god, Odium. 1000 days till Everstorm is obvious. But the first part "The love of men is a frigid thing, a mountain stream only three steps from the ice." is unknown to us. What could this mean? Cold, mountain, stream, ice? Well it gives me impression that it could be about Urithiru, probably related to duel of Champions - "the love of man" - with all that was spoken in this topic, its fits with someone like Dalinar being forced to fight someone he loves - Adolin, Gavinor, or stoping the fight because of love - Adolin vs Kaladin, Dalinar vs Vyre (stoped by Kaladin) etc. I bet this part of the Death Rattle predicts the ending of SA5 and duel of Champions.

Unfortunatly I think Dalinar might get killed, hurt or broken. But the reason I think that would be a case is soo many Death Rattles predicting that something bad will happen to Stromfather. He will suffer, maybe become a deadeye, be shattered, or be ripped off from Roshar completely - there are too many  Death Rattles suggesting something like this. Stormlight will be gone, Highstorms will be gone. Only endless weeping and darkness will remain.

Quote

The day was ours, but they took it. Stormfather! You cannot have it. The day is ours. They come, rasping, and the lights fail. Oh, Stormfather!

I'm cold. Mother, I'm cold. Mother? Why can I still hear the rain? Will it stop?

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.

The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule!

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...

Above silence, the illuminating storms—dying storms—illuminate the silence above.

And there is that Death Rattle:

Quote

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

This also refers to water raising. I think that whatever Todium will do to Dalinar and Stormfather causing endless weeping, would flood Roshar and unintentionally lead to flooding and destruction of Kharbranth. This will mean breaking of the deal between Odium and Taravangian, hurting him in process, making him unable to act and susceptible to attacks. Todium destroying Kharbranth would be very poetic and fitting. Every time when he was emotional and passionate, he cried easily, "they were his own tears".

I think it will be a duel, between two people who are loved by Dalinar, or love eachother (Kaladin/Dalinar vs Adolin, Adolin/Dalinar vs Gavinor, Adolin/Dalinar vs Vyre) and both will agree to withdraw form it, or both will kill eachother. It might also be stoped by Dalinar himself, which would mean breaking the contract, and that would harm both Dalinar and Stormfather as well, stoping Hightstorms and Stormlight, which would begin endless weeping. Drawing the fight beause of love is the loophole for Odium.

24 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

All the curses we've heard about have bee rather tame(numb hands, seeing the world upside down, ringing in one ear etc.) and you  can simply say "Hey, we're taking over this planet here, and making several new kingdoms, go to the nightwatcher for us and we'll make you a king in one of them." And why would the Nightwatcher not be able to grant guns?

All of that curses are a big deal if you're going to the war.
And then you have gun, and we're back to discussion "Roshar can't copy even more advanced guns".

30 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Notum doesn't seem to find anything odd about them. Roshar is a massive way stop in CR travel, large groups are common.

But some people does.

31 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I don't remember.

That could be said about most of our topics here, at some point we started them to make some point, now it's all lost.

32 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Sazed is actively being limited, and Autonomy is way more experienced

Were those forces of Autonomy that are now gone? 

33 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It's happening again.

What? I don't remember!  

33 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They tested the rockets, but I don't think they had bombs on them, otherwise they would have launched those rather than use the suicide ship.

They didn't but they were made to carry bombs in them, but they falt short on range and payload mass - We were already talking about it.

35 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

With the ability to generate stormlight, shardplate and an honorguard any bondsmith would be easily protected.

Steelrunner with spike surprising him in the bath. Or nuke. Protected doesn't mean invincible.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Simple solution, go to the Nightwatcher and ask her for the ability to infuse gemstones with Stormlight.

Speaking of which the Nightwatcher solves like all of Roshar's problems. Scadrial has guns? Ask the nightwatcher for the ability to make better ones. Running low on gemstones? Ask the Nightwatcher for large perfect ones.

And get curses like not recognising gemstones, seeing upside down, being mute/deaf etc. I doubt Dalinar with his expiriance and randomness of Nightwatcher would allow for that. Not to mention how much of this can be made by her, and how much only by Cultivation (guns?). Cool idea anyway, not practical and unpredictable, can backfire terribly.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It only needs to get past the point where the rounds are exploding, even if it felt the sock-wave from one of the rounds it would have plenty of time to correct.

I'm not denying that many would passed and hit, some might get nudged just enough to miss the target. 

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would he ask people to keep an eye out for Tukari?

Just because on the off chance that Ishar decided for no known reason to Kalak to reclaim his honorblade after 4,500 years, he would use it to make a perpendicularity in order to send Tukari to kidnap spren?

Even if we assume Kalak somehow considered Ishar reclaiming his Honorblade possible, why would he suspect that Ishar would send Tukari to the CR?

It's not like that he would be actively observing Tukar, it's that someone might have tell him in regular conversation, he might have heard the news, heard the gossips or what sprens and people talks about, saw himself in one of his ventures outside, and then just connect the dots coming to conclusion that Ishar has a Honorblade. Tukari presence is noticeable weird in CR.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would there be? To our understanding the words of founding were more religious, historical, and political. Not one to my recollection is about war.

Words of Founding consists of all the knowledge that Sazed had in his metalminds, that most likely included war, religions withs strong war focus, and of course the fall of Final Empire and wars of Last Empire - there was quite a bit of battles there. He was tasked wtih preserving all knowledge, war is part of that knowledge. Just basic of it, and patrols and guarding a camp is very basic, that helps to train troops as well.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

When she was leaving that one mansion before she got shot in the head.

I ment, putting illusion right on someone's face that did not expected that. In that case, she was putting illusions on herself, limiting the distance the light would need to travel significantly, plus she was some distance away from witnesses.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Stormlight itself has mass, there is no need for anything extra there. And Shallan often makes illusions for things she hasn't drawn in weeks, like Veil for instance.

That was different. Read the chapter. The illusion of her father and mother and long gone drawings appeared. Different casue 3 realms were close. Light has mass, but what Jasnah saw was too much for that explenation, like Shallan put more mass to her illusions than just in normal Stormlight. 

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

She provided Telsin the next steps, Telsin confirms this, she sees what they need to do. However Telsin isn't the one building the rockets so there is a delay between her knowledge and the scientists practice.

Yes, but that still is my point. Autonomy did not resolved all of problems they were facing at all times. She provided a lot of help, but people still had to figure some stuff by themselves to get there. Tbf idk why are we discussing it? 

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Shards grant their holder an intuitive understanding of magic and physics. She could easily figure out everything there is to know about harmonium by thinking about it.

Yet Sazed did not most likely could replicate Wax experiment? Yes, she could understand principles, made estimations, but that still was something new to her is some way. From coppermind about Trellium: 

Quote

The blast is powerful enough that not even Autonomy or Harmony are aware as to how strong an explosion of it can be

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would they use Bilming's power? They need the bomb in Elendel. And EWax's detonation was much smaller than what the set was trying, they needed more Harmonium, and thus more electricity in order to pull it apart.

I was talking about the tests and rocket launches. They tested the bombs in caves, they tested rockets with intention they would have bombs in them. They had electricity provided in a way that would make it portable/launchable. And they were all doing it in Bilming. That's why.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

But Harmonium is nuclearly stable, and Trellium isn't radioactive. Not to mention the fact that no one experiences radiation poisoning.

Yes, all of that I previously pointed out. But we don't know it. We don't know if it's radioactive or stable, but most likely both are stable. That's why I think that's not regular fission, as not done with neutrons spliting unstable nuclei, but rather strong nulcear force acting on protons and neutrons ripping them appart and spliting the atoms. Or something different. We don't know, but the effects mostly resemblems nuclear fission and fusion. It literally leaves Atium and Lerasium as products. That's why it's best to compare it to fission as that's the closest we have.
It might be, that the same way Harmony is a fusion of Ruin and Preservation (figuratively speaking), Harmonium is a fusion of Atium and Lerasium., and fission of Harmonium splits it into Atium and Lerasium.

All of that was to point out to you, that you can't just scale up a chemical reaction and multiply by 10 to make potentially fission/fusion one, as they both work on different principles. The energy in chemical reactions comes from bonds between atoms, in fission it's from nuclei being ripped apart. Chemical reactions deals with electromagnetic force, while fission with strong nucelar force. Fission reaction is millions time more energetic than chemical reactions. They are just not comparable to each other it the way you did. And that's why I suggested to measure the power of bombs (H-W and H-T) by looking at the scale of Wayne's explosion and damage done, and goals H-T bomb was meant to achieve.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The difference here is that with Bondsmithing there is no distinction between concept and practice. Touch something, reveal Connections, grab and  move as you see fit. And while yes each spren is different, as are the specific manifestations of their powers, the basic priciples are the same. So instead of a map of Roshar Navani and Shallan would make a map of Urithiru.

My point is, Dalinar is irreplaceable, he has the most experience, knowledge, skills, intuition, training (11 years!!! and with Ishar involvement), and he's renomed leader and commander. You cannot just slap a bond on some random dude and make him new Dalinar. Even with being a squire, he would still be lacking all of that in comparison to Dalinar, and would still require weeks or months of training before being sent to Scadrial, by this time all Rosharians and Radiants would be dead.

1 hour ago, Munazir said:

Yh RoW. Rereading OB I was making sure I didn’t misunderstand it. I thought Wit told Jasnah something other than the recreance

In future posts inform that you are still reading OB.

Yes, only Skybreakers didn't abandon their Oaths, and then began to hunt and kill those who might be close bonding a spren, like Lift and Ym

ROM, you mean RoW Rhythm of War?

It's about the secret that caused Recreance. Did you read Oathbringer to the end?

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Stormlight can easily be generated,

On Roshar yes, on Scadrial only Dalinar can - and they can't carry unlimited Stromlight. And that's the Scadrial's tactics, drain Radiants out of Stormlight.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Even for modern countries you can't just replace artillery pieces like that. And how many would they need to actually make a half-decent barrier? Tens of thousands at the least. And you can't redirect the boulders as they will be pulled towards where the artillery is, and you can't hit them because you can't aim artillery that quickly.

Because modern artillery is different than it was 100 years ago? During 1914-1915 Germany produced 3500 artillery pieces, that's 10 a day. Scadrial of course cannot compete with Germans, but still they have heavy industry switch to war production and after few weeks/months they would be able to produce several a week or even 1 per day later.
And there is rate of fire. Early AA guns were able to shot tens rounds per minute and late WW1 more than 100rpm. So tens of thousands are not needed.
It's random explosion that the boulder might met, at it would gave it horisontal speed, if strong enough it might just missed the gun it was falling toward.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Because if Kalak was so desperate that he would tell people to be on the lookout for people from the same country that Ishar is currently in, he would have spoken to him during the previous thousand years.

My point is, if Kalak already have figured it out how to get out of Roshar, after hearing about Tukari in CR, which are now under Ishar rule, and cannot get into perpendicularity because of the war, he might jus figure it out (as they now each other for thousands of years) that Ishar has reclaimed his Honorblade, like Nale before, and if he knew how, then he would very much go to see Ishar already. And Tukari presence is weird in CR.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Back to sleep in ten minuets? That's not realistic for brand new recruits during their first time at war. And they would make a lot of mistakes like only having two guards with no night patrol, especially at first, because they've never been to war before.

And why would they abandon it on the spot when they can still complete the mission without risk?

Maybe I overestimated but they would be sleeping soon. They are not stupied not to have night patrols as police already have them... Why do you assume they're idiots? It's stupid. They have generals that successfully deploy weapon against Malwish ships - even without being at war. Night patrols and guards are not just for protecting yourself from enemy, but to prevent desertion, spies, unruliness, theft, and it's a training for guards to increase their observation skill, readiness and discipline. That's like the very basic of camp life. There definitely were books about basic of warfare, and Elend's conquests left by Sazed that describes how to guard your camp...

Because the alarm was sounded and the risk is very high? They might get into the fight, get caught, or killed and more importantly guards now knows that they were intrested in the storage, so they will search it for anything unusual, and they would find that food started to spoil fast, or hunger is getting stronger around it. They would quickly find that fabrial and from now on they would know what your plan is and work against it. 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It wouldn't be huge, just a sphere around their head.

And how would they not notice a stream of light going before their very eyes and forming image at first? Really, how would they not notice that? When Shallan ever made illusion just right at someone's face that - read again OB ch 61. The Stromlight is very visible before it makes an illusion. That won't work.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Taln's mind was restored because a radiant ideal was said, just like how Nale's mind was restored at the end of Edgedanncer. And Illumination doesn't use the CR, so the realms being close doesn't matter for it.

I'm gonna repeat what I said in that message - "what was noticed by Jasnah, she might even soulcast to add matter/mass to thier illusions". To add to it, Shallan also made illusions of drawings that she'd lost. She was able to quickly made that army out of drawing she'd lost and likely add mass to it, because the 3 realms were close to each other (OB ch 120).

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Not necessarily. As long as it causes some form of distress it pushes Dalinar closer to breaking. Even the memory of trauma can be enough at times. And considering that Dalinar was practically comatose for the next week I'd say that it was effective. Compare the time at Vedenar to Theylan city. At Vedenar Dalinar feels the Thrill, Taravangian approaches him with a moral dilemma, and Dalinar is excommunicated. At Theylan City the secrets of the Recreance, the visions with Odium, and the Highking come out. Each time it is three problems, and Taravangian is behind them.

Additionally Taravangian is working with Odium, if Nahel spren could be imprisoned in gems that easily they wouldn't have needed to make ani-stormlight. And Raboniel has studied modern fabrials, so there is no way she wouldn't know about it.

Nothing in the books categorically disproves it, and as you pointed out in WoB, Brandon also doesn't. So it is as likely it's a sapient spren, as it's a Shardplate spren. 
Fair point about working with Odium. 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Even if your professor teaches you all the mechanics of something doesn't mean you can put it into practice. The Set's scientists are all essentially college graduates, who had just been hired to build rockets. They might understand all the principles, but they don't have the experience to put it into practice.

That was my point, Autonomy did not fixed all problems they faced, they had to find solution to it on their own.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Where'd you get that?

Maybe because it was first time for her with Harmonium during that 6 years? That never happened before as no Shard before was combined with other Shard. 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

When Wax and Steris are talking about shipping the bomb into Elendel Wax says that the largest thing is the generator, because the amount of electricity needed exceeds industrial cables limits, so they couldn't get the electricity from the city.

Ok, but Elendel does not have cabel line on the streets that could carry that power, but Wax used one to link generator with his machine. However Bilming was remade for Autonomy, and Set would certainly put proper cables that would link the rockets with city's power plant, giving them the power they would need.
Or not even, as that power was only nessesery just before the reaction, So the onboard generator on rocket or however they do it, would work, as they HAD working rockets for smaller yields, so somehow they resolved that problem.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And you know for a fact that it is fission because?

Form the description of it, what result it have and what best fits it in our world. It splits Harmonium into Atium and Lerasium, convertes mass into energy according to E=mc^2, and is the most powerful and most efficient explosion ever made - which fits very well to fission (and thermonuclear bombs as that is both fission and fusion). And the atmosphere ignition talk from Harmony was a clear reference to Trinity test, and real worries about igniting atmosphere with first fission bomb test. That just fits the best all characteristics of the reaction that took place. 
It could be also pure conversion of mass into the energy, like matter - anti-mater reaction, but that is even less comparable to chemical reaction of water and cesium. 

Until Brandon says what it was, we might as well try to compare it with the most fitting reaction we can make. Not as a fact, but as a best fitting model.

16 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Even if somehow over ten years they didn't get a single squire there are two bondsmiths, and I highly doubt one attack would kill both of them. So the one left an teach new ones, or they could write a book about it. Or countless other ways to preserve their knowledge.

Yes, but Sibling and Stormfather are different, they work differently. And quoting you from this post:

16 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Even if your professor teaches you all the mechanics of something doesn't mean you can put it into practice. The Set's scientists are all essentially college graduates, who had just been hired to build rockets. They might understand all the principles, but they don't have the experience to put it into practice.

Teaching new Bondsmiths would take a long time, during which Roshar on Scadrial would be stuck without Stormlight and completely annihilated. Not to mention Navani is on Roshar with Sibling, and we don't know if she can use her powers away from them, and she is making Towerlight, not usable for Radiants.

Dalinar is the single point of failure in that invasion, without him, Roshar is doomed. His experience and abilities are irreplaceable, and without them, Roshar can't fight.

3 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Plus Harmony said that the Trell-Bomb at the end might have ignited the atmosphere if it went off properly. Or something along those lines.

Igniting atmosphere of an planet means fusing its atoms with one another accros whole planet, like in the core of an star or in thermonuclear bomb. That is jus not physically possible, as it was known issue before first even nuclear test, scientists made calculations and it just shown that it can't be done. The atmosphere is not dense enough for it, it composed of heavier elements, that requires even more energy to fuse, the energy losses to radiation always overcompensate the gains due to the reactions, and the temprature that is require is jus too high to reach and sustain in whole atmosphere.

So yes, Harmony said that, but it's not possible. He probably was too panicked to realised that.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They wouldn't need anything more than a thousand pounds.

500kg rock is still a big one. They would have to carry it for very long way, and it would slowly drain them out of Stormlight. Just as Scadrial wanted.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Their spren can find the right spot for them.

Yes it can, but how many artillery pieces can they destroy at once? Not everyone, and losses would be quickly replenished by industry. And rocks falling from skies, can be slightly pushed out of course by explosions when passing through the range of artillery.

14 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

By this point he would have already gotten all the knowledge he could out of Ishar, so Ishar doesn't know anything more than Kalak does on this point.

And you know this because Kalak told you? Or maybe because Ash or Nale are the examples of other heralds having knowledge about other surges? It's about ability of Bondsmithing that Kalak needs, if he had figured it out.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Lets say the guard did recognize it, which I don't think is possible, but lets say he does, he either starts screaming, and wakes people up causing sleep deprivation. He sends someone else for help--causing sleep deprivation--is killed and the food spoiled anyway, or leaves himself, causes sleep deprivation and the food is spoiled anyway.

Yeeeah, that's make sense. No it didn't. That's why guards are for, that's why night shift is for, that's why patrols are for. Vital parts of the camp are guarded by multiple guards, and patrol often (not just by 2 people). Even if whole camp wakes up (but it wouldn't), they would be sleeping again after 10 minutes, and that won't cause much sleep deprivation. And if alarm is sounded, Lightweavers would abandon their mission on the spot.

Also did we ever had someone making huge illusions right in front of someone's eye that they did not noticed? Shallan is always making her illusions out of anyone's sight.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

He wasn't boosting her and the only thing the perpendicularity did was give her fuel.

I'm not talking about boosting, I'm talking about special combination of making first perpendicularity and swearing next ideal as a Bondsmith, and how that affected people nearby. Taln gains his sanity back, Jasnah could do soulcasting like never before etc. The three realms were almost one at that point. Shallan had lot's of Stormlight, and what was notieced by Jasnah, she might even soulcast to add matter/mass to thier illusions. That was one time thing due to special circumstances.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why?

Cause it would be pointless for Taravangian to lie when Dalinar could easily check it for himself now?

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They tried, Telsin said Autonomy was pushing them in that direction, but they couldn't figure out the ballistics of it. Not to mention the fact that they'd need a generator on the missile that could supply more electricity than industrial cables are capable of.

Yes, that what I was talking about. Autonomy did not gave them answers to the all the problems Set was facing. She gave them help but they had to figure it out themselves. Not to mention, H-T reaction was still a novelty for even Autonomy. Don't forget it was Telsin bargain with Autonomy, that she would control Scadrial instead of destroying it, as Autonomy had a back up plan.
And where you got that about industrial cables? Yet somehow they had working rockets for smaller warheads, but that was not what they wanted.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

There was a secondary reaction of Harmonium in Wax's lab. If it started a chain reaction that blast would have killed him.

Yes, that wasn't chain reaction, it was Harmonium reacting with water/water vapor in the air. And it was long after the initial fission reaction. Wax was holding Harmonium in his hands. Not a smart move, he admitted that.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

No, it is mass, it's just that the mass of the Trellium is also relevant.

I don't really understand you at this point as I gave you multiple examples as how it's not just a mass in case fission reaction. Trellium is relevant, but it's placement might be even more revelant, allowing for lower Trellium mass but bigger explosion. We don't really know that much about it. But I yes, Trellium is important too. 

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Even if it didn't react with Wayne's flask it would once it hit the water outside the boat.

That's true.

15 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Squires. And now that the Stormfather is sentient at all times he will know what to do and can pass it on.

And how many squires Bondsmiths currently have? How many candidates for squires are currently known? Zero. Even if Dalinar gets his squires, they would still be years behind him, and Stromfather is known for "you're not ready for this" and "you will know it when you're ready for it". They would not be any replacement for Dalinar.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Considering that windrunners carried Navani's floating platform across a continent, not a lot of stormlight. And aiming is easy, they just have to will the boulder in their chosen direction.

But the Navani's carriage was out of wood, not a huge stone rock, weighing few tons.
With the few trick, like flickering lights, it would be confusing for Windrunners to find correct target.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

He also knows Nale hangs out around the purelake, would he tell the honorspren to tell him if they see any purelakers?

But does Nale possesses the knowledge that might help him escape Roshar? So why would he bother with purelakers?

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Mists come out every couple of nights, they aren't a one in a million thing. And the mists flicker with internal light, so it would be hidden

I didn't say they are rare, just not everyday. It would be spotable if the guards recognise it.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Illusions can be formed quickly and at great distance from the lightweaver. Shallan makes an entire army in OB, and large groups multiple times. And at late night the only people awake will be guards

In OB Shallan had a freshly sweared Bondsmith around, that made first perpendicularity in thousands of years behind her back. 
It's a war time, ammunition needs to be delivered for morning bombardment, wounded treated, food deliverd to kitchens for breakfast, messages for officers - not to mention regular patrols around vital points of a camp. Anyone of them walking through illusions would raise the alarm. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They shared the creation of half-shards in OB.

So it's safe to assume that half-shards are traping high sprens, as Taravangian said.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They had Autonomy telling them how to improve it. That's not just a brilliant mind, that is one of the 16 most brilliant minds in the cosmere, who already knows how to do it, explaining it to them. If they didn't reach max efficiency I would be surprised.

How big was Autonomy involvement? If she was that involved why didn't they make rockets that could reach Elendel and carry the bomb?

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And you can only react the harmonium that is around the trellium bit, so excess harmonium won't react. It is a pure calculation of mass.

Where do you got that it's only around Trellium? Couldn't it be a chain reaction, as Harmonium splitting is causing more Harmonium to split? What if Trellium was bigger would it react with Harmonium farther away? They could place enough Trellium to react with all Harmonium, or change the placement of Trellium. We don't know with what forces or particles it interacts, but it doesn't seems to be radioactive (nor Harmonium), so I think it could react via strong nuclear forces or electromagnetism (not like in real fission, in which neutrons splits atoms). We need Brandon on this one.

And I gave you multiple examples of how it's not pure calculation of mass with real life fission physics. And here you also gave example of that, as if it's limited to just around Trellium, than adding more Harmonium won't make explosion bigger, as it's not reacting with Trellium (by your statement), it could even decrease the power. Harmonium is fissable material, not Trellium.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Harmonium reacts to water the same way alkali metals do.

So, what would happened if you have big amounts of Cesium, like a few tons of it, and pour just 0.5l of water onto it? Would all of Cesium reacts? I don't know, I'm not good at chemistry. From the reaction equasion 2Cs + 2H2O → 2CsOH + H2 it doesn't looks like it. So not all Harmonium would react with Wayne's water?

2 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

And most of the blast went up rather than out, so using Wax as a benchmark isn't entirely possible.

That's my point, and he wasn't engulfed by fireball, or burned by thermal radiation - which would happend if the yield was big enough. Above 1Mt fireball has a radius of more than 1km. 

2 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Except that spren find it helpful to bond again quickly, and that up to the recreance there was always at least two bondsmiths.

And how would that help somehow to recover Bondsmith with 11 years of experience and unique bond with Stormfather? Not much. They would be doomed without Dalinar. 

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Block line of sight from one position is possible, but from all angles at a distance of tens of thousands of feet would be neigh impossible.

But the smoke is also made on groud level from the barrels, but yes, it would help Windrunners, unless there were some obstacles like hills. And how much light would be needed to carry huge rocks with them high into the air and then drop them? That might be a problem, and not to mention accuracy.

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would they mention that to him? He's specifically asked to be told about ways to get off world, some more travelers from a country the Spren have never heard of isn't really of note.

For him it might be as he knows Ishar is involved. 

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It would be a small flash with nothing else out of the ordinary. If done when the mists are out I doubt they would even notice. But if they did notice they wouldn't be able to find anything wrong and would assume that their mind is playing tricks.

Mists are not that often, and it wouldn't? Ilusions take time to form, Stormlight is moving out of Lightweaver to form in place - that would be visable. And you are talking about putting huge illusions in the most busy area in the whole camp - where, night or day, people constantly walking by or into the storages - you can't isolate them from the ilusions, guards would be alarmed immediately.

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Yeah, and he also said that someone stole a progression Honorblade from the shin, and was actively trying to screw with Dalinar.

Brandon has RAFO'd questions about whether they are a radiant spren or not, and I have several questions about how they would be able to capture a radiant spren in the first place

Yeah, but that was to Szeth to save his own skin, what he told to Dalinar is different, still not 100% sure that's true, but it might be, as Taravangian promised to share that knowledge, so we might as well take it as truth for now. But if he did not share that, you don't have much Half-Shards as they are not on your side anymore. Just a few of them.

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

The Set spent 6 years working on it, so they likely found the maximum efficency, so it should scale with mass at that point.

Again, that's not how fission works. 6 years for secret organisation with relatively low resources is still short, and impressive when they most likely didn't understand what they were really doing, but not enough to make it perfect - it took project manhattan 3 years to develop first nukes and they had backing of the US economy plus the most brilliant minds of 20th century. And still what they made was not at maximum efficiency - it was far from that. Going back to the biggest non-fussion bomb Ivy KIng (540 kt) detonated in 1952, used 60kg of Uranium. Little Boy used 64 kg of Uranium, 4kg more, and had only 15 kt yield. Ivy King was 36 times more powerful than Little Boy, with lower mass of fissable material. Fission doesn't scale up proportionally with the mass, it's not that easy.

The best way to estimate yield of Harmonium-water reaction is by looking at the damage it had done, as it's often done to estimate explosions. We know that some buildings in the docks (docks are outcite outer circle of the city, along the bay) collapsed, and windows around the docks were shattered, but not across whole city. We also know, that right before Wayne send Wax into the ocean, lights of the city were visable - that could be around 10 km away from the city, but before blast accrued ship would get some distance closer. So let's compare it to the Beirut explosion again, where hospital 1km away was so damaged, that it couldn't function at all, and people were being treated outside, and windows were shattered on the airport 10km away. I would say, that, depending on the distance from the ship to the docks, it could be as powerful as Beirut explosion (0.5-1.2 kt), or if closer, below 1kt but above 100 t - which is still very big for conventional, non-nuclear explosion. Anything around 1MT would shatter windows across the entire city. 

And how does Harmonium-water reaction work? We don't know. Wayne had only small bottle of water with him, and would that cause the entire Harmonium to react? I daubt it. And to another thing, that aligns with my estimats, is that Wax was not engulfed by fireball, and he was very close to it.

But no matter estimates of H-W reaction, it still tells us nothing about H-T reaction as it is not scalable, not proportionate and not comparable in any way, as they are two very diffrent type of reaction that can't be simply scaled up. 

18 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Kaladin won't accept that they are trained enough until casualties drop to zero, and probably not even then.

And you wouldn't put them through a metgrinder for the sake of it, you would only risk killing them when it gets you an advantage.

And all relevent orders, other than maybe Willshapers, Elsecallers, and Dustrbingers get Squires.

Yet Kaladin was right, and at the Heartstone battle he saved life of one of the brigde 4 crew by telling him to surrender the fight.

Killing them when it gets you an advantage? I would still rather train them properly for months before sending them to the frontlines.

Yes, to be fair we don't know which order has squires, but the Windrunners have the most of them. So Windrunners would be fine for longer time, when other Orders not so much when they start to lose the Radiants.

36 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Scadrial has the advantage in every category except manpower and supplies logistics.

I would say, that Scadiral's supplies logistics with extensive train network across and beyond Basin is pretty great, and would easily be better than Roshar's one on Scadrial.

36 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Sure Roshar has Anti-Investiture but the explosion in Navani's lab was clearly nowhere near as powerful as the one in Wax's

That's wrong, Anti-light and light is 100% pure energy realesed, like anti-matter and matter, they just used very small quantities of it. But Scadrials has rockets, Roshar don't.

36 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Air superiority: mixed bag. Scadrial, particularly the south, has airship technology advanced enough to have dedicated warships whereas Roshar is in the very infancy of their airship technology. However, Roshar has Windrunners and Skybreakers giving them a manuverability advantage. 

In our current discussion we assume that only Basin vs Urithiru coalition are fighting, as we don't really now what South or Fused/Singers are fully capable of. Just to make it simpler.

I'm mostly agree with you @StanLemon, invasion of Scadrial would be extremely hard for Roshar, and with more and more Radiants killed, they would lose the only one advantage they have, as Radiants are the only thing that makes this invasion possible in the first place, hard to counter, but still doable. And killing Dalinar alone would be the end for Roshar. 

38 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I don't think this is a reasonable assumption as SL 5 is still unknown and for all we know it could lead to Radiant stagnation for 10 years or any number of things. We need to base it on what's known about Roshar currently 

Yeah, but we can't know this right now untill we will get SA 5, and it is unfair to Roshar to force them to fight against someone 10 years further in the future.

So we assume progress will happen and we ignore any major plot point that could have happened like Duel of Champions, Shinovar shenanigans or BAM. Everyone at the end of RoW is still alive, factions are still as seen in RoW etc. It's the best we can to have this discussion without constantly arguing what could have happened in SA 5. We also assuming that both sides can get to the other planet, without specifying how. as that also still causing a lot of disagreement.

We are discussing what level of technological advancement they will reach in 10 years, or how numerous and skillful will Radiants become in that time - that is still hot topic.

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

Something to keep in mind. Not counting the Skybreakers because we don't know how many of them there are, Roshar has less than a hundred Radiants of the other 9 Orders. Only 2 of those are 4th Ideal. Machine gun fire would eat through a Radiant's Stormlight to keep healing them. As such, Roshar can't really afford to just throw Radiants at the enemy in any way other than guerilla attacks.

We assuming that in 10 years between RoW and TLM, Radiant's numbers will increase to hundreds or low thousands.

56 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Yes I did, glad you're back.

That's so nice, I'm glad to be back too

57 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Taiwan and China are in trade relations, but when Chinese fighter jets and missiles routinely enter Taiwanese airspace they recognize it as a threat of invasion

Taiwan and China are rather bad example, as both of them don't recognise each other as independent states, but as rebeled provinces. And even when airspace is invaded by single plane, they don't call up country-wide mobilisation, but dispatch interception planes. 

59 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

So why not drop boulders down on them with 4x lashings or more rather than trying to dive through it?

Because from the moment they saw Windrunners that glows in the air (multiple observation posts), they started to fire, that's creating smoke covering the view - Radiant's might not know where to aim stones at. And Scadrials might even further complicated the task if they use flashing lights, and dummy artillery to confuse Windrunners. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Just three at most. Stoneward to get the stone to tell you where the gemheart is and to dig it up. Windrunner to moderate pressure and provide speed. Edgedanncer to remove friction.

And then they run out of the Stormlight and die in the middle of the dark ocean. Not a good idea. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Evacuate Elendel which is where all of your factories are as well as being you economic capital? I think it would be easier to dig the fabrials out, but even if you did go with explosives you would have to warn large segments of you population, or at least explain that Wax is taking up residence upstairs so ignore any explosions.

It was about dealing with fabrials or just urban warfare? But yeah, for fabrials, explosions (not straight up carpet bombing entire city) would work, as leaching or diging them up. But Elendel is loosing it's economic dominance in the Basin, so it's still significant, but many factiories are already located outside of Elendel. In case of an siege, factories would be either moved, or defended with work still being done inside. And population in the Elendel would be conscripted to help defending city (seting traps, baricades, delivering messages/supplies, helping wounded etc) or moved to more secure places within the city. Or "It's 7 o'clock, time for daily explosives tsunami to destroy any pesky gems within the city - take cover"

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

There are a lot of people in the CR, and why would Tukari stand out in particular? And his news would come only from The Sons of Honor, or Honorspren, neither of which would know about Ishar's honorblade being returned.

There is but Tukari suddenly apearing in large number where they were absent befere, for smart Kalak who lived thousandes of years and know what is normal and what not, migh be clear indication, that Ishar, being now god of Tukar, reclaimed his Honorblade and is sending them into CR.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I don't think the Radiant would live long enough to swear ideals again, so that one would work.

And that's the whole point of using hemalurgy.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Spoiled maybe, but with it being their first combat experience I don't think anyone would notice hunger, thought seekers could likely sense it. And illusions are more to hide the glow than anything. If you need to get into a storeroom, but an illusion around the guards head so they don't see/hear anything unusual.

Oh, I didn't even thought about seekers. But it would be noticable when whole army eats dinner, and then is hungry right after it. Seting up illusions is visable, they would notice that some Stormlight just got moved in front of their faces.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would this be the one time teleportation gets harder the more distance you cover?

It's not just about the distance, it's about people's perception of that far away land. But we've already agreed to assume that they will get there somehow, so that gives us nothing.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

There's the Mists.

That don't appear regularly, are sometimes stronger/weaker, and are not a source of power for regular Metalborns. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'm not convinced that half-shards imprison radiant spren.

Taravangian mention in OB that sprens in half-shards are the one creating Radiands - OB chapter 100 - Coppermind:

Quote

It is currently unknown which spren is used in the creation of Half-shards, but Taravangian says in his conversation with Dalinar Kholin that the spren entrapped in the Half-shard could have graced a Knights Radiant.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'm going by Cesium's reaction with water, now you are correct in saying that they might not scale accordingly but I think it would be odd if the amount of matter didn't scale proportionally with the explosion for both reactions. And even if the Harmonium/Trellium reaction is more than 10x more powerful the increase over the cesium reaction as well as the excessive matter I gave it should have been enough to balance out.

I don't think it would scale proportionally with Fission reaction - by the time it explodes not every atom of fissable material will be hit by neutrons (they are fast neutrons, bad at being absorbed and spliting the atom), the chain reaction last less than 1 microsecond. From wikipedia about Little Boy (15kt):

Quote

The bomb contained 64 kg (141 lb) of enriched uranium. [...] Less than a kilogram of uranium underwent nuclear fission, and of this mass only 0.7 g (0.025 oz) was transformed into several forms of energy, mostly kinetic energy, but also heat and radiation

Comparing to Fat Man (21kt), plutonium bomb:

Quote

The result was the fission of about 1 kilogram (2.2 lb) of the 6.19 kilograms (13.6 lb) of plutonium in the pit, i.e. of about 16% of the fissile material present. The detonation released the energy equivalent to the detonation of 21 kilotons of TNT. About 30% of the yield came from fission of the uranium tamper.

So it's not about the amount of mass, it's about how much of it undergoes fission (the same with fusion). As the temperature increases, it's less fission friendly, and ultimately because of temperature and blast ripping apart fissable material - the chain reaction stops.
And also there is critical mass - how much of fissable material is require in one place for it to go critical - it means, they can't just make it bigger as it will ultimately reach critical mass and go critical (not supercritical which is an explosion). Conventional explosion do not scale up to nuclear ones. The biggest non-nuclear man made explosion was 2.9 kt, Bejrut explosion was 0.5–1.2 kt (6th on the list). The first ever nuclear explosion (Trinity test) had yield of 25kT. And there still is Fusion left, which during first use - Castle Bravo test -  was severely underestimated and had a yield 2.5 bigger than predicted, which caused huge contamination, out of the pre-designated area , forcing US to evacuate citizens of nearby islands, and ultimatly killing 1 japanease fisherman (all on board suffered severe radiation poisoning).

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Considering that Spren find rebonding quickly therapudic for losing their former radiant, along with their higher population, they can in fact afford to just throw radiants at the enemy.

Training is a thing, not every order has squires, and even they will run out. New Radiants needs to be trained, not thrown at enemy for meat grinding. In that way you would quickly ran out of Radiants and lose the war. In RoW year had passed, and Kaladin still thought that many of his original Brigde 4 members are not trained enough.