alder24

While flying with A-steel sounds fun, pewter has far more useful daily applications than steel. It makes you stronger, faster, endure more and be less tired. So much useful. For Feruchemy steel, being fast is just great. Compounding - Steel 1000%, it's unlimited speed. Running around faster than the speed of sound? Count me in! And steel is everywhere.

You need two gears or two separate rods, and a belt running between them, the belt is Awaken and spinning. So even if you or I don't know how motor is made, we both know what it does. Spin. Making a motor with Awakening is extremely cheap and easy, I'm really surprised that they didn't invent it yet and went fully into industrial revolution. Jet engine, I don't know if Awakening could make it, as it heats up and compresses the air inside it. But a propeller engine - easy. Breaths spinning the propeller would also generate electricity for the whole plane. However it's easy for us to imagine Awakening in our daily life, on Nalthis they are far behind us in tech, and making helicopters without understanding advanced aero engineering is far beyond their possibilities for now. In the future of Cosmere, that should be common, because as you point out, no fuel is needed. But for now I think wings could be a good starting position from which aviation on Nalthis could advance further.

You really think you could avoid an explosion a millions times greater than the Hiroshima bomb? Which would most likely also be present in CR. I think only with automatic devices of some sort, but that's beyond what is currently possible. You basically convert all of the black hole's mass into pure energy via E=mc2 as the black hole last far shorter than 1 second. Even Slider would not be able to create a bubble with that time.

The problem I see with Kaladin is that he wants to help everyone too much. He doesn't know where to draw a line. And when he was captured by Parshmens in OB and decided to HELP them, I knew how it's going to end. And it ended so tragically in Kholinar. Kaladin is a great soldier, but he is too good of a person to be a soldier, he still is a surgeon in his heart that needs to help everyone, including Moash. And this is how he always was - he helped boys in Amaram army, and he failed them, he helped slaves escaped several times and he failed them, he try to heal one slave during his way to Shattered Plains, and he failed him, as much as he failed all the Bridgemen that died under his command. He failed them in his mind, while in reality he didn't, it wasn't his fault. And yet despite all of this, he jumped straight into helping his enemy, despite knowing that they are at war with each other, and people close to him will die again from each other's hands, not by his fault, but he will see it as his fault again. After swearing the 4th ideal he is on the right path to overcome his need to help everyone. That's part of his character and his PTSD, he need to learn where to draw the line, so he can fight and kill those who needs to be killed.

For me the best part of this interlude was Lift. She is a great and funny character. I like her. And it has little hidden secrets spread here and there. The person trying to kill Lift is the same person that killed Ym, the shoemaker in the second interlude of WoR. That person is... let's just say interesting. And it's not the first or second time he appeared in books. What I love about interludes is that they not only give us a little break from main characters and main events, but also introduce us to other new side characters, in other parts of this world. We have Szeth, Rysn, Lift and many others from all around the world. We can look at what is happening at different parts of Roshar while the main heroes struggle with their challenges. This makes the whole world alive and more immersive. And that gives us, the readers, important information that we couldn't from the main characters pov. The problem with Szeth in SA is that there is so little of him there! I also want to know more, but so many questions are still left unanswered. However, I'm not trying to discourage you, because Szeth storyline in WoR is satisfying. There will be answers provided to you.

Well, theoretically, it might be possible to make tiny quantum black holes in Supercollider on Earth. So you need to take two objects and lash them together with such force that some parts of those objects would collapse into a black hole. It is difficult, as with that force of an impact, the objects would just explode and disintegrate. However it might be easier to generate high speeds with lashings - eg. infuse something with strong reverse lashing, and lash a regular object with high speed just next to it, with speed so high that it won't hit the reversed lashed object, but miss it closely, gaining speed, creating some sort of gravity assist we use to accelerate spacecraft. This could recreate a particle collision environment that can result in black hole. The second option would be to lash an object not in any direction, but towards its center of its own mass. With very strong gravity, the object would crush that mass, finally reaching sizes below Schwarzschild radius (every mass has it, if the mass is compressed below that radius it collapses into a black hole), But both of those options would require great amounts of investiture, I wouldn't say shard level, but still very great. Maybe some Bondsmith boosting with perpendicularity next to them would create black hole. However as you make it from very, very tiny objects, it would almost instantly evaporate due to Hawking Radiation, killing everyone near it. A 1000 kg object collapsed into a black hole would "live" for 4.7E-8 (0.000000047) second and would explode with energy of tens of thousands nuclear bombs. So it's a bad idea.

Good point and great solution. I was thinking about wings as a thin but highly curved surface, somewhere in between the shape of the upper and lower wing's surface, with a thickened part on the leading edge, to mimic the desirable aerodynamic effect. However material simply folding on itself to fully recreate proper wing cross-section is even better. Yes, that's what I had in mind, I was just lacking proper words for it. The Awakener needs to copy the mechanism of birds fly, for it he must observe how they fly. With time and observations he can learn how to mimic that flying motion, as well as gliding and hovering. Another great point. There are several ways I think it can be recreated. First one is by movement of the body, leaning your upper body left, or right, which will result in a slight turn. Second is movement of legs - leaning them left and right - to mimic the rudder on the plane. These are just body movements that don't need to be included in the Command and visualization. However it's tiring, so it can be viewed just as a stepping stone towards fully functional wings. So the third idea is the coat, that is tied up to your legs, will do the leaning of your legs left and right for you. This can be initiated by leaning your wrist left and right, just like the yaw axis. The very last component could be remaking a fully functional tail section of a plane or bird. The material would have to be sewn into the legs section of the coat, and Breaths would do all the shapes and movements. Yes, however all the elevator and flaps are doing is changing the airflow around wings, which creates necessary force to lift the wing or lower it down, to maneuver along the 3 axis you describe. However, the Awakened wings would just do it, they would just turn and twist as needed to position the wings in the right configuration for any maneuver, as they are powered by Breaths. So flaps and elevators are not needed, as Breaths provide necessary force instead.

I was leafing through Warbreaker and I thought - what are the limits of Awakening? Can an Awakener fly? Awakener can't control gravity like Windrunner can, or push himself away from metals like Mistborn can. The best Breaths can do is to pull you up with a rope. That’s not really flying. But I could Awaken material to expand when I fall which would act like a parachute. Still no flying. I can’t strap jet engines under my arms so is there any solution to it? Well, birds fly… And this makes it so much easier. That’s it. I just need a material in the shape of wings that will just flap up and down like birds do. Awakener can fly! But that will just make you go up, and you don’t want to get stuck in the air with the only way down being falling after you recover Breaths from wings. You need control. And those are two basic components necessary for flying: wings and control. Wings Let’s talk about wings first, that’s easier. An average adult male human would need a wingspan of at least 6.7 meters to fly. That’s a lot. But here is a trick, the faster wings flap, the more lift they generate, so 6.7 meters is a maximum length your material needs to have. The Awakened material can become stronger than muscles so wings can flap much faster than normal birds can without getting tired and without damaging material. Moreover you don’t need any rigid metal/wood structure to give shape to the wings, as Awakening will grant wing shape and stiffness to it. And that will allow wings to fold on my back without restricting my movement. With this you need less than 6.7 meter long material in the shape of wings, and a coat with hood, and with seperation for each leg. Wings would be sewn strongly on the back of the coat (close to the center of mass), and the coat itself could be tied with straps and belts to your whole body. A single hair on top of the hood for Awakening focus, and this, with a human shaped coat, will reduce the cost of Awakening. And then the only thing left to add is a little handle, rope coming out of the left sleeve with a handle at the end which is straight piece of wood, and can be held by your hand - why? For control. Whole construction, wings, coat, straps and a handle, needs to be perceived as a single object for Awakening to work as needed. And that is easy, as it all can be made out of the same material and color sewn together, so there are no different or separate parts. Afterall a jacket doesn't differentiate itself into buttons, pockets or sleeves. Control And here is the answer to control. Vasher could Awaken rope to respond to specific stimuli in the form of taps. He could make rope pull him up, lower him down, even let go and hold something as well. 4 different responses. With a similar trick, my wings can react to my fingers, and I only need 4 responses as well! start/stop flapping flap faster flap slower extend/fold on my back That’s it. I can make those commands by tapping on the handle - 3 taps and wings flap slower. Or tie it to the specific finger - thumb tap -start/stop, index finger tap - flap faster. Easy. But I want more. I need to change direction of my flight, I want to turn left and right. And to achieve this, we need to look at how planes turn. The plane turns by lifting one of its wing, while lowering the other, which creates so called “bank angle” Bank angle - The angle between the wings and the horizon, as viewed from the rear of the airplane. An airplane with its wings level has zero degrees of bank. So how do I do the same? Well, with my handle! If I could make wings respond to tapping with my fingers, I can make wings to align themself horizontally with the handle I hold in my hand. When I hold the handle leveled, the wings are also leveled, when I twist the handle left, wings are also banking left, maintaining the same bank angle with horizon, as the hantle has. I can call it complete at this point, as now I could perform a normal flight, but there is one thing that can be added, but it’s not necessary - vertical control. Flapping faster or slower is just one way of gaining altitude, the other is controlling the angle of attack of my wings, to pitch up and control my lift. The angle of attack is the angle between the wing and the direction of the oncoming wind. Increasing this angle increases the lift, but this is at the expense of drag which quickly increases. How do I do this? With the Handle of course. Just by lifting or lowering the handle with wrist movement only, I can slightly increase or decrease the angle of attack thus controlling my lift. Birds have an angle of attack of around 6-15 degrees so I don't need more than that. The one additional thing is to make whole coat strap and tie itself onto you - it’s easy, just by tying the first strap, all straps hold onto you and tie themself up, later, when you untie one of the strap, all straps untie itself. With this I can quickly put wings on and fly, or take them off and fight on ground without worrying that wings get damaged. This however is not necessary component of the wings. And thus the Awakened wings are complete. But wait a minute - isn't that too many things needed for a Command? And the simple answer is no. The Awakening command could be something like “Upon call, fly like a bird” or "Fly upon my commands" - Vasher used similar commands. Hoid in OB used even more difficult one. The hardest part is visualization. Mental image that accompanies Awakening is at this point extremely complicated. We have three different components - tapping the handle, twisting the handle and lifting the handle, and even forth one, self-tie straps. Vasher could probably already make wings which just respond to tapping, but the rest provide more complexity. However I would not call it impossible. I was thinking about it the whole day, and right now I can quickly imagine how all necessary components work within a few short seconds. A skilled Awakener can do it even faster. Of course, to come up with this idea and to perfect this mental image, it would take him weeks, months, or even years, but it is possible. Vasher already uses very complicated Commands with even more complicated visualizations, and Vivenna was able to copy his Commands after seeing him use it once or twice. Making wings that basically imitate birds, a living creature, can be done. And that’s how a skilled Awakener can take up into the sky. It may take him years to achieve this, but I think it can be done. For simplicity, to make wings easier, he can strap them to his arms, and reduce the visualisation significantly, however that can make his arms tired (wings are moved by Breaths, taping on the handle to control them or bank arms to turn), and with that Awakaner is unable to throw Awakened ropes at people dawn below. Sitll for a prototype it would be much easier to make and could be a stepping stone towards fully controlable wings. I also came up with the conclusion that zinc ferring would be great Awakener as he can speed up his mental speed and create better mental images faster as well as come up with better commands or create completely new ones. Being a zinc ferring would make Awakening so much easier, and developing working Awakened wings would be much faster. Copper ferring can recall necessary mental image in a short moment, so he could also be better at using very complicated Commands. Do you think any other invested arts can also help in making Awakening easier? Can Awakening replicate other invested arts or surges with their effects? What do you think about my wings idea? Is there an easier way for Awakener to fly? tldr - wings with a joystick.

The difference is, you Awakening "yourself", or using it to store your memory RoW spoiler So a single Breath can be useful for memorizing. But other than this, there isn't much use for one Breath. Vasher's little straw man costs 25 Breaths (he had around 50 in prologe and half were used on this), and it is the simplest multitasking tool. Maybe you can Awaken it for less than 25 by using a simpler command, like "stand up", but this is just useless. Fetching keys was a complicated command afterall. However I was wondering, Mistborn and RoW spoilers

I never realized it would be hard to choose without alloys. So I've picked up iron (some form of flying), zinc for useful mental speed, and gold for compounding, which was the easiest choice.

Status: used to be slave (ardent) used to be a Darkeye Profession: soldier/duelist Artifacts: used to have Iron soulcaster, now have stolen dead Shardblade No powers I used to be an Ardent Soulcaster bonded to the holy Solucaster of Iron. I served Highprince of Jah Keved who was famous for his brutality as he treated even Ardents like mere slaves. I've become a savant and my body slowly turned into iron. To avoid death by petrification, I've abandoned Soulcaster and Artent's duty, and run away, secretly stealing Shardblade that belonged to the Highprince, known as a "Soulsweeper" out of spite. The Soulsweeper's blade is thin but long, sharp on one side, while the other edge curves like gentle sea waves on a calm day, with only the blade's tip being sharp on both sides. Whole blade is curved very gently like a saber. Its hilt is secured by a highly patterned crossguard, which beautifully centers on a teardrop shaped yellow topaz attached to it. I ran away from Jah Keved to avoid being persecuted and arrived at Alethkar when I started learning swordsmanship by practicing dueling without shardblades. I have to hide my Shardblade to avoid being caught and prosecuted by stealing Highprince Shard. My body, that mostly turned into Iron from all those years of soulcasting, limits my movements and speed, yet provides impenetrable armor that no regular sword or weapon can break. When War of Reckoning started I joined the army of Hightprince Sebarial as one of many mercenaries, still hiding my Shardblade. I participated in the battle of Narak and became severely wounded from Regal's lightning strike. It took me more than a year to recover, however my weird state of Soulcasting Savant only complicated matters. As I found out, Iron body and lightning strikes are very bad combinations. After Taravangian betrayal I could finally reveal myself as a Shardbearer and use Soulsweeper without the fear of extradition. I fought in Emul alongside other Radiants and Shardbearers. My iron body, despite limiting my movements, proves to be on par with even Magnified Ones. When fighting I use mainly Ironstance and Stonestance, especially Stonestance for defense as it's considered "the immovable stance", fitting well with my slow speed. I had the privilege to stand face to face with my former master and Highprince in Emul and I took immense satisfaction when he recognised his Shardblade just moments before it swept his soul away. After this I've sworn to continue fighting against Voidbringers and with this repay Almighty my sins of abandoning Ardent's duty. No idea how to give points to all those "used to be" but it's around ten. There is a future foreshadowed (bluntly) within these words. Can you find it?

If she just tapped them all, she would explode with power - weight, strength, speed etc - and allomantic powers (or not as she didn't have metals in her stomach) - that would be very visible (like Marasi in BoM, who was leaking mists from her), yet it didn't happen. She could be a nicrosil fering and just tapped all the nicrosilmind that grants abilities, and now Bands are still invested, but don't grant any allomantic and feruchemical powers. Or they had some investiture blocking/leeching tech that was used. However leeching from metalminds is possible only when metalminds are tapped (per WoB). It also might be a ruse, some sort of duplicate, and true Bands were replaced with fake one, when she grabbed them, or even earlier.

I am, on the other hand, a full fanboy of reverse-bond theory. During the trial it was Adolin who gave Maya strength and breath that made her speak. I suspect that Maya would take more and more from Adolin which would make her stronger, maybe even give her unique abilities, and create a new type of bond. In this case it would be spren who is "the Knight" and Adolin who "fills the cracks in Maya's soul".

That's what I've been waiting for! This is where Kaladin shines (literally). "Honor is dead. But I'll see what I can do." This means you're priceless? Yes, that was disappointing indeed. Oh you gonna love Lift's interlude! It's Awesome!

In SA5 there is no mention of it. But in RoW he did realize that Rayse is dead, he wasn't able to use that information before Taravangian wiped his memory of this and remade that conversation. So technically he did realize that, but for a very short time.

But if F-Iron didn't affect force at all, then falling on somebody would cause no damage, as this is also force. Yet it worked so many times. I still have a weird feeling there was a scene when Wax did it. Don't know where. Also Wax rarely have to fist fight.

I found english version of HoA (ch 78), just so I can quote this: This WoB still confuses me.

Gold heals, not pewter. Pewter gives strength. I think it would work similar to hypnosis. You could change your appearance with identity storing, and possibly connections (how people view you might also affect your ideal spiritual image), however you would need a lot of healing in your goldminds. But changing your center of perception would be too much. Your spirit is attached to your body, and this would most likely prevent you from changing your center of perception and doing those things - your soul is permanently stuck to your body. The same way you can't fill metalminds that you don't touch, you can't be in places, your spirit doesn't "touch". SA spoilers, WoB about hypnosis: Nice theory overall. Edit: WoB about identity and appearance

Yes, Adolin fights are just amazing. And you will get a lot of great Kaladin moments soon I beg your pardon! Remember Honor Chasm? When Kal was ready to jump? Or how she helped them to find herbs from which they made medicine? Or how she helped them find bodies when they were sent to the chasms for recovery? She did a lot. Right now she is providing more emotional and moral support, which is still important. Pattern is very helpful, but he likes lies and patterns and is good with recognising them. But that's just regular thursday for him, while Syl went out of her comfort zone, almost lost herself in the process, just to bring Kal poison leaf thinking it would help him. Yes, yes it it. And you're only halfway through.

I doubt it. It's the air resistance that stops you from reaching ludicrous speeds with F-steel, and compressed air increases air resistance. So while with brass you can igronre heat from friction and run a bit faster, friction still can cause you damage (every little particles, sand grains, insects etc would cut deep into your body like a bullet), and you still reach a moment when running through air would feel like running through water, and then further turning into feeling like running through solid concrete wall, just because there is so much air compressed in front of you. The only thing I know steel can make is makes you able to withstand G-forces from rapid acceleration. But unfortunately. you can't ignore air resistance.

No problem, no hard feelings on my side as well. I enjoyed this discussion with you, I had fun doing math. When you look at the math, the conservation of momentum is just a small moment in the whole problem which is resolved with the conservation of energy. They are issues with energy, but they can be "resolved" without breaking any laws and the discussed problem still remains logical. Yes they are broken, as seen in the math. However Cosmere has its own laws of conservation of energy and thermodynamics that aren't broken in this scenario. Also look again at WoBs you provided. It's stated multiple times that F-Iron provides only strength to uphold your new weight, not muscle strength or more endurance. This is the whole point. The only reason that Sazed or Wax is able to punch harder or withstand being punched is because the force is greater (F=Ma), Newton's 3rd law of dynamics, and inertia. They gain no strength, but because they are more massive, they are able to punch harder or be punched without being moved by it. But this doesn't apply to free fall. Overall it was fun to have this discussion with you, even if we didn't reach an agreement in the end.

Yes, I loved that as well! Well, let me just say that you won't be disappointed with what is going to happen from this point on

Yes! It finally happened! Was it worth waiting?

They create upward force that over time decelerates their fall. It's not instantaneous, it's happening over time. And there is no 500m tall buildings in Elendel. He creates an upward force, that over time decelerates his fall. All of this is consistent with physics. The energy is still there, but it's used to decelerate the fall, it's working towards other direction. Up this time, not down. There is nothing that magic needs to fix, this's simple force vectors. Because, there is air, there is drag, there is terminal velocity. That's why. When he fell through the ceilings, he did accelerate. You know, gravity? 9,81m/s2? there was like 2m between floors, how fast would he go? 10m/s? And he was stationary, 0m/s for starting speed. And what's more, mass has no effect on gravitational acceleration. That's basic physics. It also doesn't affect drag force, only terminal velocity. Him changing mass, doesn’t change his rate of acceleration. He stores that per what? Hour? Minute? Second? Millisecond? Picosecond? It's important to evaluate how much you get. And I don't think we know the ratio of storing exept X kg per time unit - as this is the only way it was explained - your number doesn't work that way. Diminishing returns (or what it's called when you tapping more than you store ratio was) will cut this number to a fraction of what it was, and that would only work for a moment, not time period, meaning, your speed would not get affected as the moment is not continuous, it's a point. Was he falling or was he stationary after reaching the top of his ascent and having 0 m/s speed? Or, what I said above, he used all of his mass instantly - instant isn't time period, instant doesn't last in time, it's a point in time. Therefore it's not affecting his speed, as in given time frame, his mass didn't change. Edit: I was right, in AoL when he destroyed a building with Steris (ch 19), he did it, after first reducing weight midair to gain speed, and after reaching top point in his arch with 0m/s speed, he took all the weight and used it in the moment. He said it's happening, and I remember him using that principle (I think) somewhere in the books, but because he didn't launch himself into space and burn in process for no reason, you deny it? Why would he go into space? Edit - He reduced weight to gain speed when he rescued Steris in AoL. How many time do I have to say, that iron is not pewter? You're not gaining any strength, you not gaining any endurance, durability, resistance. The only thing you gain is the ability to uphold your own weight. It's not pewter. No, because I'm saying if a regular person is able to do it without harm, then increased weight won't matter, it's still the same action. The ratio of "energy absorption per 1kg" or whatever didn't change. It's still the same energy per every kilogram he has. The additional energy that he absorbs is solely provided by his mass, and won't absorb any more energy that was there before changing mass - like in the falling scenario. No, because they provide force F, that works over time T and gives you acceleration A. Like real life physics. If a coinshooter starts pushing on a coin just before impact - he's dead. Nobody in the books did that ever. They all push far away to gradually decelerate and lose energy. Like it should work. And we know from WoBs that our physics still works like it should work in Cosmere. Energy can't disappear. The 1st law of thermodynamics exists. Conservation of momentum works. Conservation of energy also must work, and this is more important than momentum. And we know that IRON IS NOT PEWTER! This is the end for me. I've shown you the math. I've shown you the energy problem. I gave you an explanation that conserves both momentum and energy without breaking 1st Law of Thermodynamics. If this can't convince you, I'm just wasting more time trying to explain why you can't have 1m fall after falling for 499m.

Because of the density. But Skimmer DOESN'T change his density, bullets affect him as normal. The only thing that changes is his weight and ability to uphold that weight. Not strength, not endurance, not density. Stop telling me about speed, and start about ENERGY! That is what kills people, not a speed. People falling transfers potential energy into kinetic energy. Skimmer falling from a sky has a lot of energy in him - where does that energy go? It can't disappear - 1st Law of Thermodynamics - Energy cannot be created or destroyed. The energy that Skimmer accumulated during fall can't just simply disappear, when he changes his mass. What is happening to conservation of energy? It MUST be conserved. That's right. If energy doesn't go anywhere, the falling Skimmer has still the same energy, as falling human. Even with mass maniupulation, the energy is still the same. If that energy is able to kill a human, it also will kill a Skimmer, even if he will be having mass of 1mil kg. It's not a speed that kills, it's energy. And Skimmer doesn't have pewter. He's still as vulnerable as normal human, he can just uphold his body with more mass. We're talking about falling people, this has nothing to do with it... btw, did you know that when you drop an elephant from a skyscraper, it explodes in contact with the ground, while a squirrel just walks away like nothing has happened? He does, he talks about it with Kriss - The Bands of Mourning chapter 12. He tells her that when he decreases his weight to half, his speed doubles. Not when they have been previously falling with terminal velocity, and accumulated a crap ton of energy due to that fall - it can't disappear, it must be still with him. And if it's with him, then he will be dead when he impacts the ground, even if it's with lower speed. How about we do some math to prove my point? Can you? That's it. This is the math. Feel free to check it out.