alder24

Soulcasting is mass-preserving if you still can't agree. Even if that's the case, duralumin push can do it. Run out of steel? That's gonna take a lot of time. Lightweaver will lose all Stormlight sooner. And Mistborn simply can aim coins for the bottom of the shield, imbalancing and exposing Lightweaver head. Shields are being held on singular pivot point. Or push coins below/above the shield and behind Lightweaver to endlessly push and pull it through his body. For whom? Kaladin? Because Sigzil almost died in first battle of RoW. Some died fighting them. Not to mention how the Tower fell. Fused are a threat, just because Kaladin and Jasnah can deal with them, it doesn't mean that they are not a threat.

Balat's axehound weighs as much as he does, but she is not the biggest (still big), as the biggest axehounds come up to a man's waist. Whitespines are as large as horses. Chasmfiends - at least twenty feet wide, six times the height of an adult man at their peak, and over twice as long. But they are forming bond with mandras, that reduces their weight. Skyeels also has this bond, as they should be heavier. And you have also chulls and island greatshells. No numbers for weight, so best you can do is approximate from their size. That's all I've got from Coppermind and WoBs. Roshar is high-oxygen, lower-gravity world, so animals can grow bigger but not necessarily much heavier.

It would be harder for Jasnah. And we've never seen Jasnah soulcasting Fused, even in OB when 3 realms were almost one with unlimited Stormlight. And the WoB clearly says: Both Mistborn and Radient do have connections in SR (to the Shards, powers, invstiture etc) that make soulcasting them very hard for Jasnah. It would be almost impossible for average Lightweaver to soulcast Mistborn, especially when they are worst at soulcasting at a distance than Elsecallers. "It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it." - the way this is worded suggests it's not the norm for average Lightweaver to soulcast at a distance.

Yes, I guess it's because aluminum hat is covering brain all around, shardshield is not. Here is another way to win in your scenario - Mistborn just shoots the coin into shield and steel push it normaly, both of them are flung in opposite directions, and if Lightweaver did not think of soulcasting a wall behind him, he will be ejected from his trap and Mistborn will be free, if he did, he will be smashed into that wall. Mistborn has pewter, so he easily withstand being pushed against the wall, Lightweaver will suffer discomfort, and be unable to move. He will have to drop the shield and let the coin pass through him, and if he does that, Mistborn now can endlessly push and pull coin through Lightweaver body, draining him out of Stormlight, and killing him. Mistborn can do it with one coin, 10, 20, or whatever gives him better anchor. When Lightweaver drops his shield, Mistrorn push on his emotions with duralumin and steel pushes himself toward Lightweaver, killing him while his paralyzed. You really underestimate Mistborn. Just because he can't heal and glow in the dark, it doesn't mean he's not fearful opponent for Radiant. Not to mention all of the metal that Lightweaver will have on his body will help Mistron strike lethal Spren forming a scutum or pavise, even if little bigger than normal is ok, and would be enough in this scenario, but as a big wall? That's a little stretchy, but might be possible. Lightweaver can't soulcast Mistborn, he's too invested. Tbf, it's quite easy to react to electrum shadows freezing - even if you don't know what could it be, it's the most logical to avoid those places where shadows are freezing. Especially when you are in the middle of movement, and know you can't lose all the momentum you already have just like that.

Warbreaker/Elantris Edgedancer (part of Arcanum Unbounded) Dawnshard The Secret History (part of Arcanum Unbounded) The Emperor's Soul (part of Arcanum Unbounded) the rest of the novellas in Arcanum Unbounded White Sand (graphic novel) Both Warbreaker and Elantris could be read first, as they are quite important to the Cosmere. And also they are the biggest books remaining. The later three are short (100 page long) novellas, and are happening between Stormlight Archive books (Edgedancer and Dawnshard), and Mistborn (The Secret History), so they are nice little follow-ups for the books you've already read. The Emperor's Soul is also around 100 page long novella.

Why not? It's not covering his entire body. His head is exposed from above, back from behind. Rocks are not aluminum.

Duralumin emotional allomancy, Lightweaver drops the shield, mistborn leeches, Lightweaver is dead.

This is a thoughtful analize with reasonable set of rules. I would give them both more Stormlight and metals with electrum, and specify what is considered by long range. There are lot's of scenarios that can be made, Mistborn can use emotional allomancy to make Lightweaver fearful and cowardly, or overly aggressive to manipulate him as he wants. He can use duralumin with emotional allomancy to paralyzed him just before closing distance and leeching. There is just too much moves to consider, and all can be countered, but listing all the moves is just pointless tug of war. Mistborn will be better in close quarters combat - he can easily outmaneuver Shardblade with pewter, and grab both of Lightweaver's hands while leeching. Shardblade gives you range advantage, but once he dodges it and comes closer, Lightweaver wouldn't have time to react, even by changing its shape. I only think that bronze won't be able to detect illusions because secretsprens weren't able to do it in OB.

Yes, that was the point. My statement was pointless and illogical, like yours about future laserbeams. That is not a personal attack. You want to pitch ancient Lightweaver, with Jasnah, 4th ideal Elsecaller, standing next to perpendicularity in OB skill level, against modern Mistborn who "didn't train with electrum" because "he is person first". And when I proposed to equalize the fighting field and placed ancient Mistborn with Atium, against ancient Lightweaver, you jump straight into future lasers. That jump was pointless. That was not an argument in any way.

I have no idea how logically you could connected it with Rashek was bad with hemalurgy... And that's the point. Soulcasting is hard to do. That's why modern Lightweavers struggle with it. We have nothing to suggest that ancient Lightweavers didn't have problems with it as well. Things that you are saying will be very hard or too hard to do for an average 3rd Ideal Lightweaver. Why not use future Mistborn with full feruchemist medalion and leeching cubes that can FTL to Lightweaver before fight even begins? Your arguments are just pointless.

So why not using ancient Mistborn who all had Atium? Insta win Yes, Soulcasting is hard to master. Very hard. It takes a lot of time and training. Soulcasting air is even harded. That's my point, modern lightweavers are very bad at Soulcasting. They are the only data we have.

The statement you made is hypocritical. "Modern mistborn are weak, as they are not assassins" but "let's ignore modern lightweavers cause they can't do fighting, and talk only about ancient lightweavers, about which we know nothing". I can came up with a dozens of reasons why modern mistborn would be trained in fighting the same way as ancient one. No one knows what ancient Lightweavers could do, but we know what modern Lightweavers can do, that Lightweavers are worse in Soulcasting that Elsecallers, that Jasnah is 4th Ideal and far better in Soulcasting than anyone else. And if Lightweavers don't want to fight, are born with disabilities, decide they want to be scientists, or engineers instead of soldiers etc?

Lightweavers in modern times will be illusionist first, soulcasters second, because there is sufficient workforce, production and tech, so they don't have the need for soulcasting anymore... Great argumentation, 10/10.

Maybe there are soulcasters that can make only very specific material, like bronze, and those which can make all of one of the ten essences like all metals which are much rarer? I'm pretty sure, that in WoK Shallan thought that soulcasters that can make everything exist and not only Jasnah has one, but they are extremely rare. There are soulcasters that can soulcast material into three different ones. But yeah, technically steel is not a metal, so only iron.

They can make any mine with huge cave on the bottom of it, to hold the water, or by finding underground river, to which water will flow. They can prevent highstorm water from enetering a mine, by placing the entrance on the eastern wall, not on the ground, and on the higher ground, or by sealing it before highstorms. They can soulcast a strombunker on top of the entrance to a mine. It's not like their houses and basements are being flooded every highstorms. Roshar has iron mining (the WoK chapter in Shinovar, soulcasted iron is there heavily valued), and soulcasters wouldn't be able to meet the needs of the entire Roshar, and there is very few of them. Soulcasted sword out of wood will never be as good as forged one. It's not just about shape, it's about using proper type of steel and proper hardening and thermal processing to give desired properties to a sword. One of the ten essences is metal and one of the soulcaster from Aimia was for metal so, if it's for making any metal than steel can be made as well (plutonium too )

Jasnah who is 4th Ideal Elsecaller, order much better at Soulcasting and more focused on that than Lightweavers, order that does it differently than Lightweavers, is closer to average? It's like saying that Rashek is closer to average Mistborn. Shallan is below average, but Jasnah is far above average.

I'm not changing anything, this is just physics. Matter is energy, they are the same. They can transfer only under some circumstances. Both of these statements are true. Energy can manifest in a different way, like kinetic energy, or heat, both of them are still energy, but if you want to transfer energy from kinetic to heat, you need f.e. friction. Energy can manifest as a matter, it is still energy, but if you want that matter to transfer into other form of energy, you need to do something to it. Atomic nucleus is made of protons and neutrons. But, surprise, each one of them is made out of 3 quarks, they are the elementary particles. When you sum up the masses of each quarks in nucleus you get far less than the mass of the whole atom. Where is the rest of that mass? In energy. From Wikipedia: Mass is literally energy, and if you want to release energy, you need to breaks the bonds within atom, which decreases its mass. Are we gonna argue physics, because we're both not qualified to do it? Now if you understand that matter=energy, you just need to add Investiture to it - matter=energy=Investiture - that's it. This is the composition of natural world in Cosmer. Nothing that is Investiture can't be supernatural because Investiture IS natural part of the Cosmere. People just don't know that yet. Lift powers her surges by eating matter, Nightblood when drawn can be fed with regular matter. Because matter is investiture and these two can change matter to investiture. And he for sure know every law regarding metals? Right? Like for example superconductors won't break Wax's laws of physics? Wax doesn't even know what he doesn't know. He has no idea how god metals should behave, as he doesn't know any laws and equations that govern them. Wax is not qualified to say if god metals are natural or not. If I saw something weird, I would think that I don't know enough to say what it was. People witnessing light pillars say it's aliens, but they just don't know it is simply natural optical atmospheric phenomena. For them it is supernatural because they don't know what it is. For Wax god metals are supernatural because he doesn't know what they are, what are their properties, how should they behave, and what are the natural laws governing them. When something breaks laws of physics it deosn't mean that it is supernatural, it means that your laws and your understanding of physics are wrong. And what all of this, which is talked about for a second time here, has to do with religion after TLM? I've lost the connection.

No, we're not. You are saying that matter is not interchangeable with investiture, I that because in our world matter and energy are interchangeable, in Cosmere Investiture is interchangeable with matter and energy, as investiture has the same relation with matter and energy, as matter in our world has with energy. Matter (all things that has mass) is form of energy. Not like water and ice - as both of them are matter. Matter can be transform into energy UNDER VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES, like the one happening in nuclear fission - forcing neutrons to split enough atoms to sustain fission. Or fusion - extreme temperature and pressure forcing light elements like hydrogen to fuse together. The same way energy can be transfer into matter - the fission of two atoms heavier than iron or nickel absorbs energy and thus converts energy to mass. Even simple fire transforms matter of wood into energy of heat and light. Now add investiture into it. UNDER VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES Investiture can be transfer into matter (mass) - Shards creating worlds. Investiture can be transfer into energy (Breaths moving Vasher's little strawman), and both energy and matter can be transfer into investiture. Investiture is energy. The same way matter is energy. Sazed made flowers and animals out of pure investiture. Those flowers are now matter, but they can be change into investiture under very specific circumstances. You don't need mass to make gravity, energy itself will have gravitational effect - you can just put enough energy in one place and it will form a black hole. The same way, you can put enough investiture in one place, and it will form a god metal. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that under very specific circumstances investiture can become just an iron bar, and the other way around. There's different from god metal which is a physical metal (as it has mass and atoms) but heavily invested. That's literarily how Little Boy bomb works. 2 pieces of uranium smashed together with explosion. That's it. They touch, and suddenly exceed critical mass, and city disappeared. But not any uranium, but enriched to ~80% U235 - that's problematic. Making bomb carried by plane is problematic. Forcing neutrons to return back to uranium instead of escaping the bomb - that is problematic. Physics of it was already known before Manhattan project, but making it real cost money. Fat Boy worked differently, sphere of 6kg plutonium, of size right above the limit that would make it go critical, and explosives all around it. You detonate regular explosives, it compreses sphere of plutonium - it goes supercritical, and another city disappeared. Thermonuclar bombs (fusion) works like Fat Boy, but next to the sphere of plutonium surrounded by explosives, you put deuterium (Hydrogen with neutron) and make sure, that energy released by fission, will compress hydrogen, sparking fusion. Putting too much radioactive material (not every element works like that) in one place will make it go critical, critical mass for U235 is 52kg in a sphere of 17cm at normal density. That's a bomb. But you can't have 100% pure U235 so - that's why Manhattan project was needed. It doesn't have to be. You don't need to convert matter into energy, as you can convert investiture contained within a god metal into energy (boom) and matter (atium + lerasium). Or that reaction works on just strong nuclear forces, or it was radioactive but radioactivity was not discovered yet - we don't know yet, but there are few options. And Wax for sure knows ALL of Cosmere laws of physics, right? Right?? He don't even know about atoms, or protons/neutrons. Not to mention quarks or quantum physics. He has limited knowledge, and works only with what is known so far on Scadrial. Laws of physics are not absolute, they are evolving - like Newtonian gravity evolved to general relativity. I've already told you about it on previous page NO IT"S NOT LIKE THAT. Matter is not a form of investiture like Ice is a form of water. That's not how it works. Think of Investiture as energy in our Universe. This is much more different than water and ice. Under specific circumstances matter can be transform into energy - like in Little Boy bomb, 1% of it's 64kg uranium core was transformed into energy. Just 1%. From matter into energy, like Einstein equation E=mc^2 predicted. That's how investiture works. Investiture is energy, but it take a loooot to change it from investiture into energy or matter, and form matter/energy into investiture. Shards can do it. Wax can't (or managed to do it once but didn't understand what had happened). It's not like you heat up piece of metal and it changes to the Msts - that's not how it works. You just need Einstein on Scadrial to prove that Investiture and matter is just energy, which is the base of Cosmere natural world. Then Wax would conclude that laws of physics are not being broken at all.

I disagree. Marasi did have important character development. Since AoL all she wanted was to be in position to enact laws that would benefit society. She became successful constable and detective, but on meeting with Kelsiar, she realized, that Ghostbloods knew so much about Set's plans long before meeting her, and if they only would have informed Police, this could be all stoped years ago. But because of their secrecy. they narrowly avoided disaster. She can't work from shadows, and do nothing when she has power to act. She can't withhold information if that's something important (that's her thing since AoL again!). I think that Marasi decision was a right one for her character. She finally choose a position in which she can act and change Basin for better. As an ambassador and mayor she can change for everyone things in a way that as a Ghostbloods can't.

I'm talking about Investiture as a whole, matter as a whole (baryonic matter), and energy. E=mc^2. Energy can be transformed into matter - like it had happened at the very beginning of our universe, and matter can be transform into energy, like in nuclaer weapons. The same way Investiture can be transform into matter and energy. Investiture in Cosmere is just different form of energy. The whole planet Scadrial was literally made from investiture of two shards. Wax experiment doesn't prove what you're saying. Regular matter is different form of energy, in the same way that both regular matter and energy are different form of Investiture and opposite. Regular matter can be transfored into investiture - that's kind of what Nightblood is doing, especially at the end of Warbreaker. Shards can transform Investiture into pure regular matter and create a planet from it. Matter is just energy. That's it. Investiture in Cosmere is also energy. You can change them into each other, but they are still the same thing, governed by the same laws of Cosmere Physics. These are the states and form I'm talking about - matter, energy, investiture. Matter can manifest in different way - like hydrogen or helium, energy can manifest as electromagnetic radiation or heat, and the same way Investiture can manifest as mist or Stormlight. Brandon did not give us Einstein equation for the Cosmere, but it is working in the same way like E=mc^2, but includes Investiture in this equation like E=mc^2+ic^2 or whatever it would be.

In our universe matter is just different form of energy E=mc^2. In Cosmere, Investiture is just different form of matter and energy. That's it. They are interchangeable in the same way you can change water into the ice and into water vapor. It's still water, just in different states. Khem, khem - Little Boy - all it did was just send one piece of uranium block to smash with other piece and boom. And putting just enough radioactive material in one place can cause criticality, as it exceeds its critical mass. There were a lot of accidents with criticality just because someone did not follow rules and put too much plutonium/uranium in one place. And again, the same thing we're talking here since last page - our laws of physics are different than cosmere one. Their laws of physics include Investiture, most people doesn't know that yet in-world.

Please. He first catches him with all metals, and the moment he touches him, he stops burning them and leeches with duralumin for a fraction of an second. Than he can again burn all metals. Is it that complicated? Their dimensions were described in the books. Cadmium bubble is the size of the room (AoL ch 12), Bendalloy is several feets. just for 2 people to fight in it in very close distance. Even if the resulting sphere had only 1ft, it would still stoped Skybreaker for a very, very long time. Than he can try doing it again, or just cut off his spheres in the first place. Or wait to leech until he've used most of his light. Or while leeching stab him in heart, forcing him to use more light and Mistborn can fly off, and resupply metals. There is like 100 different moves that both of them could do, do we really need to go through all of them? That's pointless. In range of Bendalloy bubble, the effects cancel each other out and time is normal there, but Cadmium bubble is larger and where not in range of Bendalloy, it is still standing and slowing time

He can simply stop using all other metals when he's starting to leech with duralumin. What's the problem with that? Or later use vials. Here is another idea, that Mistborn can use - burning both cadmium and bendalloy at the same time. It gives him a protective shell of slowed down time around him, and when Skybreaker approach, he would get stuck in cadmium, giving Mistborn a lot of time to react and even shower him with rain of coins and metal, as for Mistborn, times moves normaly. That's mean that he can't really move when making bubbles (unless he's savant in both metal, not likely), but that would still work as a trap, or even better, burning metals only when Skybreaker is already in range of cadmium, stoping him. Time bubble of cadmium is the size of the room, and for bendalloy around 5-15ft, so there is a lot of space affected by cadmium, and he can even change their sizes. If he's a savant in both cadmium and bendalloy, he can burn them constantly, except just for the time, when he's shooting coins. That would make him untouchable - until he runs out of bendalloy.

Yes you are still ageing in time bubbles, time dilation is effecting them etc. If you are out of the bubble, your ageing is not changed, inside it is. Chromium slows down ageing, bendalloy speeds it up. So if Wayne makes a bubble, and spends there 5 minutes, from his perspective, form outside's it was 30 sec or whatever short time, but he would age full 5 min, as 5 minutes passes for him. If Marasi makes a bubble and spends there 30 minutes (her perspective), but for everyone outside, the bubble was there for whatever long hours, she would age only 30 minutes. Physics works like it should work with changing of how fast time passes. But it's only affecting what's inside the bubble, because only in the bubble time changes accrues.

For Hazekillers that weapon would be great. But for Mistborn? It's much heavier, bigger, and slower than daggers It would be much harder to carry them around covertly and silently (especially when you add shield), they would restrain movements, and in air fights they would face much stronger air resistance than dagger. Mistborn are not warriors, they don't need shield or heavy weapon, they're assassins relying on speed and mobility. A dagger is fast and mobile. A club with a sharp edges - not much. And Mistborn only needs to use daggers in fight with other Mistborn, and with anyone else, coins and metal is their main weapon.