alder24

And just to prove you wrong, a little search on YT and here it is, a duel where one guy with two sabres facing two opponents, won by that one guy. 4 seconds long. Most or all of that duel would be seen by Seer before it even began.

When they start striking, they can't move as easily as you, as they have to follow the momentum of an blade. And just turning sideways allows you to deflect, or turning around after first block. I don't think so. In first palace intrusion? Vin was cut with an axe while running along the corridor, from second inquisitor that waited behind a bend. She didn't even see him. No it isn't. Seer controles the situation. He moves where he needs to be safe, he make sure that no one is behind him, he stikes in first openings he sees. They're dead. And you know it from what credible source? Because knight with full plate armor is invincible and can easily win against 2 opponents. But wait, we're talking about a guy THAT CAN SEE FUTURE!

Or, hear me out, moving when you know he won't be able to stop or change his action, still far in advance so you won't get hit? Which I disagree, as seeing into the future is extremely huge deal in fights. Move left and right? Cut distance and force him to step back? Attack? Or don't go inside in a first place. When there are 2 opponents, Seer still can easily outmanoeuvre them, as he literarily can see attack coming from behind. With more, there is a limit of how many people can be around you, and how many can strike at you, without interfering with each other. I would say 4 is a limit. Difficult for Seer, but he can use their numbers against them, and make them interrupt each other. But with multiple enemies, Seer is more likely to die. Why dodging isn't an option? What is that? Dodging is always an option. You can't just denay fundamental move in a fight, just because. You can also, use your other hand to deflect the blade. Edit - or fake an atack or move in other direction.

Mistborn era 1 happens around 300 years before SA1, Era 2 Mistborn is in between books SA5 and SA6. Harmony writes those letters in that gap between Era 1 and 2 of Mistborn, when it is still SA 1-5 on Roshar.

The Seer sees it comming before his opponent even starts moving, he can prevent it from happening. We have in book prove of it, quoted here. Thug can't do that. "Her atium shadow had split at the last moment. Two shadows, two possibilities. He’d counteracted the wrong one. She’d tricked him, defeated him somehow. And now he was dying." he chose wrong one. In reality you don't have future vision or powder increasing your strength and durability. We're talking how it works in the world where those things exists. And we have in book prove that even untrained guy with Atium, can win a fight against skilled pewter burning fighter. You see a shadow FEW seconds before enemy even makes that move! SECONDS. Do you know how much time this is in fights? There is no human limits needed to be overcome, Seer can just simply step back before anything ever happens, move to the side. This is a lot of time. The perfect move is to MOVE! Not block, but move away. You can do multiple things at once. Block and move, move and deflect, deflect and deflect, strike and move. Seer sees it before they even make a move. He just won't put himself in that situation. Simply by pushing sword with bare hand, or your blade, just slight touch and it's missing. No, Atium sees long time before he makes move... Like we see in the book. Seeing few seconds into the fight is huge, you know what your enemy will do, and what he do after that, you know how to move, how to strike, when he exposes himself. You kniw how the fight will progress before enemy makes his move.

Protect those that can't protect themself - workers can't and killing them is not protecting them. Morality. There have been 6 years of intense trade with Malwish, Marasi has 2 or more of them. Police, army and some individuals could easily gather few hundreds or low thousands of grenades during that time. Where do you got 12?

Yes, the caves are a good idea, and with rails, supplies won't be an issiue. Moreover the damage Windrunner can do is not comparable to bomb raids in WW2 - factories would be up and running after days or weeks of repair. Factories can also be hidden among thousands buildings in Elendel or other cities, and camouflaged to look like residential building. This would be a problem for Scadrial, but a problem that would be manageable at least. And the Windrunners will have troubles with oath - if they force workers out of the building, than they can damage it. But at some point people might just say "I won't go as I know you can't hurt me, and i'm no threat to you" than Windrunners can't do anything, without violating his oats. Windrunners blades cuts perfectly through material, and that can be easily welded back in many cases. Using gravity to colapse building - still a lot of material that can be reuse including heavy machinery. And there are also leacher grenades. How many Windrunners they have to lose before realising that it's to dangerous to make those strikes? And if just plated Windrunners would do this, than they can strike only few targets at best - not efficient, as Scadrial would repair and place new ones faster than they could destroy them.

Atium shows few seconds into the future, if atium would show only plans, then the shadows would constatnly split after Seer makes his move, as every move Seer does, the plans will change. It doen't. Atium have to take reactions of opponent base on Seer action (base on the shadow he sees) into account, as it shows you few seconds into future, not just one action. Otherwise the shadow would always be splitting, and Atium would have no use. The moment you she what action shadow will do, you know what you will do to him, and shadow then shows you how your opponent will react to this very action you will do, and how you counter that, and how he counter that - etc. EVERY action Seer's opponent does is base od what Seer is doing. That's how fighting works. But his opponent doesn't look at Seer's action to see where he himself will be in the future, but how he needs to react to what Seer is doing. Seer moves in just right time, to counter what his opponent is doing. He knows how far back he need to step, knows how strong or where he needs to strike, he knows what moves he need to do. Atium gives you few more seconds for your reaction, pewter doen't. Once again, if Thug got stabbed in heart or decapitated, will he be ok? I want te remind you, that it took Vin 2 weeks to wake up and 3 months to recover after her little talk with inquisitor in TLE. While burning pewter. Pewter is not a goldmind. You can't! I gave you the description of how that "leaning forward" would look like. With what momentum will you do it? With what force? Leaning forward pushes your center of mass away from your feet, and then you simply fall on your face. You can't just lean forward in the culmination of your strike, when your force and momentum are at maximum, and they're starting to decrease from this point on. If you do, your stike would have no force behind it, you would lose the balance, fall on your face and get stabbed in the back. Because to dogde you back away, not lean back, that's how you awoid being hit and maintain your balance. He burns Atium, he know that's enough. VIn can't lean forward, and if she tried to, he would've seen it and react either diffrently in the first place (step back not lean), or do 100 different moves that he can using Atium. He SEES the future. Zane striked turned his blade into her shadow on the very last moment, and Vin with cleared mind, without thinking of what she wants to do, and what she will do, and she was able to catch that little movement, and she saw her future with this, splitting the shadow. He moved split second before Vin even think of her action, showing her where she will be, thus showing her where he will attack. And thank you @Treamayne for providing all the quotes and examples from the books, with the very Zane vs Vin moment that is talked about, plus with fight between pewter burner and Seer with no fight experience. It's proves everything. I was going to ask who will live further in a duel with skilled fighter - a thug with no fighting experience, or a seer with no fighting experience. And this question was already answered by the quotes provided. It doen't matter for a thug that he's stronger and faster when he can't use it, he doesn't know what to do, and even how to properly strike - for a skilled fighter it would be like toying with a kid, and he would chop him to pieces. It makes all difference for seer as he can see few seconds in advance - that's few movements ahead - and he have time to reacts to fighter, as he knows what he wll need to do. He would be able to avoid every strike and be out of range, and even hit his opponent, and for that skilled fighter it would be so confusing as he clearly see that Seer has no skill in fighting, but somehow he avoids everything - just like Eland vs Yomen in quote above. @Tglassy explanation of how Atium works is better than mine. Either Atium shadows changes base on your action, but you can understand and predict that, or Atium shadows already take into account your future action, and your enemy reaction to that, making shadows unchangeable, which also takes away your choices, as you will always do the very thing Atium shadows already reacted to.

Good for you, the only concensus we have is that there will be no consensus. And to be fair, my favorite is Roshar too, so I'm on the wrong side, just bacause I also think that Scadiral has so many advantages that make their defence possible, if even successful. Yup, Rosharian soldiers will be blasted into oblivion, and lose morale so fast, that they won't ever go back to front. Few machine guns will destroy and rout their entire army. Roshar has one big problem - no oil, coal, gas. They can't make motor in the same way we, or Scadial can. But they can make substitute, fabrial motor, fueled by light. That's very intresting and would be fun to see what they will do with it - but not in this scenario. I do not agree. In recent years lots of new scientific discoveries were made, resulting in boom of new fabrial technology. One year passed from making rising clothes covering archers from rain, to Bridge 4 flying machine. That's impressive. Before that for thousands of year barely anything got invented, that's true. But that can be also told about Earth, Scadrial etc. 100% true. They have Bondsmith, Dalinar, that would supply them with Stormlight. We talked about it a lot, as that is the single point of failure for Roshar, if he dies, Roshar is doomed. The problem that Scadrial have is that technology and weaponry they have is limited in numbers as for the end of TLM. The first weeks and months would be hard, but Scadrial has modern industry, so after that hard time, factories would be switch into war time production, and new factories would be made, outproducing anything that Roshar can damage, or produce themself. Guns, artillery, and TNT will kill Radiants.

Oh yes Tyn is annoying, but she didn't really had time to talk with Tyn and tell her I don't want to do it. And what Shallan should do when Tyn announced her as a princess? Say it's a joke? Ignore her? At that point whatever she does, she will be embarrassed, so following Tyn would be the best option, as it wouldn't be ever known to Kal that it was a joke/lie. But that scene was still funny and great as first interaction between Kal and Shallan.

I'm giving you examples of HEMA - Historical European Martial Arts, form of fighting practiced and documented in medieval and modern period. That's how they were fighting in the past. Hollywood is not historically accurate. No, it's to do exactly what VIn did, and she not just reacted to what Zane did. If she went into that strike with a thought of using Zane's movement, to see what he's seeing in Atium which allows Vin to see future from Zane's movement, Zane would have seen it in her Atium-shadow before his moves and do something else, reacting to what Vin will do when she wanted to react to Zane, and Vin wouldn't be able to do it differently form what Zane had seen. She did it, because she went into that strike without thinking of reacting to it, and then decided to react to it, when Zane was finishing his strike, because she knew how Atium works as she experienced it. It's getting complicated! I can't explain it in word, but I know how it works in mind. Time shenanigans are too confusing. Who is you? Seer or his enemy? The thing is, in any fight you always react to what's your enemy doing, no matter what. In this fight it is the same. Seer's enemy is reacting to what Seer is doing, but that enemy is doing that knowing that he will react to Seer, meanwhile Seer sees Atium-shadow that reacts to Seer's action, and therefore he reacts to reaction on himself seconds before Seer doing it. Anything that Seer's opponent is doing was already seen by Seer, and Seer cannot change it by choosing to do something that wasn't seen by him (as there would be multiple shadows). Seer always doing, what Atium Shadows is reacting to and this is best course of action for Seer and thus cannot choose anything other. Not in guts, HEART! When burning Atium, you can just avoid it, and not get stabbed as you see it coming. Or better - decapitation. Center of your mass is in your way of how much you can lean forward. And momentum of your blade must be preserved or changed. You can't lean forward during active movement without it being part of that movement, as you won't be able to time it. The example you gave - "leans back far enough the blade doesn't touch skin" - if you lean forward when you noticed that blade doesn't touch the skin (the closest point between body and sword), before lean would be compleated (even before you start leaning), the blade would be cutting air, as it was carried by momentum away from the body. If you do it better, and allow your blade to be carried by momentum and use that to swing it back and take a step forward instead of leaning, the opponent would have lots of time to move, and react to what you're doing - move, dodge, block, or deflect. You're talking about moves made in less than a second. LESS than a second! Look at the gifs I gave you, from HEMA. There is no "noticing that your blade won't hit when it's closest and leaning forward", all made moves are smooth, in specific sequence, and sword positioning, followed by another smooth move, reacting to what was done previously. Leaning is best way to lose your balance, stepping is what you want to do, as it's givivng you much greater range and balance. All movements and strikes have some form, some way to do them, way of positioning a sword before, that will follow specific path because of momentum, not just random hitting that you see in Hollywood, or games.

I don't understand what you mean. They didn't live for thousands of years in burning hell with low oxygen conditions made by surgebinding, until they biologically adapted to it. They got out of there as soon as it happened. So their bodies were requiring 21% of oxygen and they stepped into Roshar's 35% oxygen. No problem. It's like getting out off burning house - you can still run around in smoke full of CO and CO2 and low on O2, if you get out fast, you can even save your favorite books (like all of Sanderson, I think we would have to choose the most favorite, as there is too much to carry). They were not biologically adapted to new Ashyn conditions of low oxygen, so they escape immediately. It's about where life originated, where it is adapted to live, and the differences between that and new envioment in which they are going into, rather than temporary conditions that happened one day.

Here you go, look at the foot: Stepping back is a dodge. What do you want dodges to look like, rolling around like in Dark Souls? Atium Seer is time traveling (kind of). What Vin did required special circumstances, and in the very last second reaction. She at first did (and thought) exactly what Zane had seen, just to change it by thinking and acting differently at the very last possible moment. That's not something that your average guy is gonna do. She did it, because she knew how Atium works, someone who doesn't burn Atium wouldn't know about it. You mean stabbing your heart would be "less life threatening"? Yeah, pewter speeds up healing, but multiple times during era 1 it was told how dangerous is relying too much on pewter. It is, as a blade just passed by the body of your opponent, it still has momentum, and you can't just "go further", first you have to swing your blade back at the opponent, which gives him time to move. And that's within 1 second. When you loose your balance at fight, you dead in most cases.

Radioactivity means decay heat. I think Kandra would realize at some point during 1000 years, that their huge pile of Atium is getting warmer, for some reason. There was so much Atium there. Also it would be weird for god metal, which is pure essence of god, to be radioactive. Unless the Shard itself is unstable, then it would make sense. Ati and Ruin looks quite stable. I think they would be able to see decay products within metal (era 2) under spectroscope - both Harmonium and Trellium had only one big spike, which means pure. Atium was not tested yet, but most likely looks the same. But I cannot wait to see how radioactivity will be used in Era 3. Radioactive Atium looks cool, tbf TLM spoiler

You do realize, the future the Seer sees, is already the one in which Atium-shadow reacted to future actions of the Seer? Basically the Seer has only an illusion of choice, as every choice that the Seer think he might do, is already predeterminated the momnet he sees Atium-shadow, and he will alway choose the very thing Atium-shadow is reacting to. It take very sperial circumstances to "split" the shadow - like Vin show us. It's time travel, it's complicated. Moreover, Pewter doesn't stop lethal strikes. If he takes on lethal hit, he will die. Atium allows you to see FEW seconds into the future. Do you know how significant it is? It takes few seconds to make multiple strikes one after another, less than a second to dodge a strike. Fights are extremely dynamic. I would rather see into the future even without skills and be able to dodge a strike before its even made, than wonder if that strike was lethal or not. Some HEMA for you: The best way to win a fight, even without skill, is to be out of range, or look for openings. Atium allows you to do that. "lean a little further forward"? and be thrown out of balance which would make perfect opening for a strike? Dodging is the number one method if you don't have a shield.

No it wasn't? Ashyn was very Earth-like, before it's destruction, all that smoke and ash came after it. Whole system was made by Adonalsium: They fled with the disaster, so they were not living in that fiery conditions. And, them switching into hign oxygen atmosphere, wouldn't cause harm, it would even slightly increased their body performance. 35% oxygen wouldn't be toxic for Earth-like human. But switching from 35% to 21% would be breathtaking. Swithching from higher gravity to lower gravity - bone loss and muscle deterioration, extreamly bad when you comming back. Plus heart and blood pressure problems. Swithching from lower gravity to higher gravity - exhausting, muscle pain, potentially slight bone problems, heart and blood pressure problems, risk of cerebral hypoxia. Swithching from lower oxygen to higher oxygen - not a big deal if below 50% and 1atm Swithching from higher oxygen to lower oxygen - shortage of breath, risk of hypoxia, for humans OSHA defines anything lower than 19.5% as oxygen-deficient and immediately dangerous to life or health.

Yes, yes we are. And we're having fun. So what's the problem? Not bad, but still how many of those would be needed and how many of those can be made with available gems. And that still doesn't resolve problems with moving in and out of fabrial range and moving, fightning troops. Imagine walking towards enemy lines and suddenly everything becomes 40% heavier. Ashynites face opposite problem - they came from Earth-like planet (higher gravity) to Roshar (lower gravity) so their muscles deteriorated and also experienced loss of bone. That might cause problems, but they were not coming back to Ashyn, as that's when it would be the most problematic. After thousands of years their bodies adapted to new environment. Astronauts on ISS have to exercise 2 hours daily to minimize effects of microgravity. But on Scadrial there is an increase of gravity, suddenly their body have do gave 140% effort. For most soldiers this would be mostly ok, other (non-combatant) would feel gravity to be problematic, and for some it will be harmful, children might develop defects in body development. All however would feel effect of higher gravity, they would get tired faster and have muscle pains. And when you combine this with lower oxygen levels it goes even worst. Not crippling or terrible, but just highly troublesome.

I will say that we've already seen this but in limited version. Parshendi played Rhythms to make food grow faster with help of Stormlight - even humans could do it. Downsingers could have done the same but to the greater extend. There might be a form that helps with hearing Rhythms and singing them, but not specifically for stoneshaping, just helping with it.

I do think shaping stones wasn't done by a form or surges, but by the Rhythms, as singers could hear natural rhythms of stone and change its frequency ever so slightly (or command it) so it would change its shape accordingly. That might be their natural ability as they were strongly connected to Roshar and its Rhythms. They just forgot it, and it might be also connected to Mishram. Also wasn't betrayal of sprens about how humans were simply more emotional and expressive so they attracted much more sprens than Listeners could? That would made singers jealous and susceptible to Odium manipulation. Abandoned by sprens and unable to defend themself from human expansion, they turned to Odium for help. There is most likely more to it, that we might not know about now. Singers might for example ask sprens to grant them forms of powers to defend themselfs and sprens refused = betrayal of sprens. Not Voidbringing, as that came later most likely. First surges were used by Heralds and first Fused, in later desolations sprens mimic them. Fused are not Voidbinders, they are Surgebinders. Voidbinding have 10 powers, not 9 like Fused. It's might be what Renarin is doing as he's bonded with corrupted spren. I doubt singers and sprens could use Voidbinding before even Fused appeared. Some WoBs about Voidbinding: Edit: Song of Secrets: So it looks like sprens granted humans some kind of surges instead of Singers, thus they turned to Odium.

I knew it! I'm definitely not too lazy to translate it myself, and not too forgetful to remember there were translated images already. One that would cover how big of an area? One that would be moved with advancing troops? Everywhere troops and people moves, you can't use that there. Acclimated? We're talking about gravity not air pressure. They can get use to feeling of increased weight, but higher gravity will still have effects on them. It would affect thier muscles, bones, heart and blood pressure. That would be especially harmful to non-combatant, workers, craftsmen, women and extremely dangerous to kids. Effects wouldn't be drastic but it will cause trouble and harm, as they constantly have to uphold 40% more of their body weight plus everything they have to carry. It's not something that you can just acclimate beforehand and forget about it. They would have to exercise daily for hour or two just to develop and keep their muscles in shape so they can uphold their increased body weight. Combine that with lower oxygen levels and they might even get mild oxygen deficiency in brain.

By that statement I do understand that he is being invested by Harmony, just enough to be physically/spiritually fully present in Cognitive Realm, so he could talk to those who died before going to the Beyond. Harmony have to actively invest him, and then take it away. More than there is in Bands but less in Well of Ascention. Would that make him a Sliver? He would be close to it maybe, but by Coppermind definition: Is point three met? He doesn't use it up, nor release it, it's taken away from him at most. Is there even enough investiture to met point two? He also doesn't hold that Investiture constantly, so not an avatar as well. Harmony could just transfer him to CS himself, but then Marsh would have to walk to everyone that he wants to meet - not practical. So Marsh must experience something like Wax did in BoM, but without dieing part. So it would have to be just to disconnect his soul, without harming the body, and allow it to manifest and move around freely in CR. I would say his something else, less than a Sliver but close. About stories that could be just worldhoppers gossiping or purposeful action by someone. That could easily be Harmony, as he likes religions, he likes when they are being spread around and talked about. Or Kelsier, to warn potential enemies, that the old and powerful defener is still active on Scadrial. Or believers of Marsh just talking about Death. I do have a different question. Does Marsh wants to play death and meet souls, or is it just Harmony pushing him to do it, and Marsh just doesn't want to sadden or insult his only remaining friend?

I see it now. Don't tell me you got translated arts in english books? So they can only affect one person, or small region. So it still would be limiting and impractical to implement. Like advansing army, scouts, logistics, all would have to have personal one, and those could be easliy damage by near explosion, and they won't affect equipment and stuff needed to be carried. Why personal and not regional? If a person with regional fabrial goes further away from the rest of the group, get killed or gem gets shattered, all would feel gravity again. And if everybody would have regional one, they would interfere with each other. Now the question is can Navani make millions of those in several weeks before invasion starts to supply everyone and to cover every camp and place they need? No for sure. I would say kandra soul would still be closer to human one than Fused soul to listener. How much closer? we don't know, it's RAFO for now.

Yes, that's an obvious way. But what if Autonomy did not directly interfere at all, and it was all because of fundamental property of Trellium that made her more independent? Can spikes made out of god metal alone change or influence thoughts and actions of person who was spiked by it aligning them with intent of an Shard?

I don't remember any gravity fabrials, nor does Coppermind, are you talking about pairing fabrials? Windrunners can do it, but that's on relatively small area, and above 3rd ideal. And we are talking about camps of hundreds of thousands of people, extended frontlines, scouts, long logistic chains etc - even with 10000 Windrunners you wouldn't cover all operation areas. Not to mention, that would require almost doubling atmospheric pressure, which would cause other problems. You not only breathing 2x more oxygen but also nitrogen and CO2. Nitrogen can cause troubles - mild nitrogen narcosis. CO2 is toxic. Not to mention leaving area of increased pressure, can cause rapid decompression of pressurised air in your lungs ruptoring them, and damage to other parts of your body that holds air. And experiencing discomfort as there is twice as much air pressing on your skin. Not a nice concerns when you are in the middle of invasion. Hemalurgy changes their souls but not to the extreme levels of CS, which are highly invested. I do agree that there can be more, but it's lacking Harmony. There is lots of stuff that we know how they works, and can be significantly used in war, but we are not including them on Roshar's side, but only like 4 on Scadrial's - ships, medalions, primer cubes and more Harmonium in stocks. We've already talked about ships and their vulnerability, medalions can be usefull but have big limitations like cubes. And nothing more is known about Malwish and their technology. So in my opinion there isn't much to discuss about unify Scadrial.

We didn't but I don't think we needed to. We've already have enough to put the pieces together. Becasuse of Harmony's demands towards her, she ends up getting "killed" to force Wax onto path that Harmony wants him to be. But she did love Wax. So we can imagine how angry she might get on Harmony, and what was she thinking. She decided that Harmony needs to stop playing with people, that she needs to free them from Harmony. And that's most likely led to meeting with Set and obtaining the spike. I wouldn't say she was controlled by Autonomy, nor she was insane. She just really thought she needs to stop Harmony from using people as a tool so nobody would ever got hurt like Wax was, that people would be better off without Harmony - which aligns with Autonomy intent and plans. And that's why she did what she did, with Set help. At least that's how I understand it. She loved Wax, after death, she asked Harmony to look after him. Edit: I do think that Autonomy spike influenced her and made her focused more on achieving independence. But that raise a question. If she had a spike of some other shard, like Endowment, would it make her more giving? Would Lerasium spike made her more preserving?