alder24

2 hours ago, Sythrin said:

This gives me the idea, that if you could pair a healing power for example "regrowth/growth" with an external intent or identity. Could you theoreticlly enforce your intent on the healing progress of a person that you heal and give them for example cancer?

No, altering their identity isn't enough because their perception of themselves will always filter your healing to match their mental image. Even if you knock them unconscious, the way they view themselves is still saved in their spirit web. To do that you would need to mess with their spirit web first and that can be done with Hemalurgy. 

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

So Nale when he uses his honor blade uses more stormlight than when using his spren blade.

That's not how it works. He gets the same powers from both of his highly efficient 5th Ideal spren bond and his inefficient Honorblade, there would be some kind of compounding effect which simply would make him efficient and strong with Surges. It doesn't matter what blade he holds in his hands. 

WoR ch 87:

Quote

“No. But Kaladin, you have to understand. With this sword, someone can do what you can, but without the . . . checks a spren requires.” She touched it, then shivered visibly, her form blurring for a second. “This sword gave the assassin power to use Lashings, but it also fed upon his Stormlight. A person who uses this will need far, far more Light than you will. Dangerous levels of it.”

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

But would a non-radiant use even more stormlight than Nale while using Nale's honor blade? Remember how Kaladin got better with stormlight the more oaths he said. I wonder if it is the same for the Heralds. 

No, there is no difference here. The third WoB said: "Honorblades are less efficient; this doesn't change when a Herald uses them." The inefficiency comes from Honorblades itself and Heralds also suffer from the same inefficiency. There is no Oaths or Ideal to swear to change that. 

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Did the Heralds breaking their bond weaken Honor so that Odium could kill him. Or did that start the long death? The Recreance could have served as the final nail in the coffin. 

No. The Recreance happened when Honor was already dying, all nails were in the coffin, the coffin was just being lowered into a grave.

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Possible oaths for the Heralds.

Oaths: 1. Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination.

2. I will serve as a Herald of the Almighty, I will protect the people of Roshar.

Another way to say this will less room for interpretation. 2. I will serve as a Herald of Honor, I will protect mankind. 

3. I pledge my body and soul to cage Odium, and I will never break. 

The Oathpact isn't like that. It's not like the Nahel Bond and Radiant Ideals, there is no progression or improvement. The Oathpact is a bond forged by Ishar the Bondsmith and Honor. We don't know the details, but it's not like what Radiants have. 

6 hours ago, Master Silver said:

Breaking the other oaths causes the Herlads to turn into the ten fools,

That's the nature of Cognitive Shadows. They've lived far longer than they should have, this strained their mind and soul and broke them, causing them to go mad. To add even more, they are more similar to spren thus they are susceptible to perception of people about them, which also causes further deterioration. You can see the signs of their madness even in the WoK prelude - Kalak already is showing signs of his future indecisiveness. Oathpact doesn't help them. 

8 hours ago, MerlinArcane said:

When Navani bonded the Sibling, and before when she was studying them, she noticed that a lot of the fabrials were primitive, or of lesser quality than the current ones used. Do we think, with her bond, Navani is able to magically remake the fabrials to be more modern? that, or do it manually throughout the entire tower. 

If that’s possible, what sort of new things could be added to the tower to make it more useful? We know it won’t be a spaceship, but it could become the beating heart of civilisation again, or at least the beating heart of the Radiant Orders.

Many fabrials in the Tower were indeed added by ancient Radiants to provide more functionality to the city (for example the soulcasting fabrial that created the glass barrier around the crystal heart of the Sibling). Modern fabrials rely on trapping spren, something that the Sibling is unwilling to accept. But Navani for sure will upgrade many fabrials in the Tower by incorporating new discoveries about the metal cage and aluminum - they've already replaced many fabrials in the Tower to make them work again after they moved in, like in elevators. 

Remaking them "magically" won't happen (depending on what you mean by "magically"). Ancient fabrials are physical manifestations of spren, so at best she will have to explain to those spren to change their form to add new elements, but in the case of aluminum they will have to add it manually as aluminum likely can't be created by spren. Many of those fabrials are the Sibling's body, if Navani will be able to convince the Sibling to change them, they will change it - if it's even needed. There are many advanced fabrials made by the Sibling, more advanced than what Roshar developed on their own, like the suppressor fabrial. 

Moreover Navani now knows that ancient fabrials are physical manifestations of spren, it still might be problematic to find spren willing to sacrifice for humanity if she wants to add some new fabrials. Communication with those spren might be tricky as well - Navani knew at the beginning of RoW that ancient fabrial have a spren trapped in CR, but they weren’t able to communicate with them. Maybe her new Bondsmith powers will allow her to do that, but she will have to learn this first.

However Navani doesn't need to really replace or modify any fabrials, now with her Connection to the Sibling she can just activate all of the Tower's fabrials with Towerlight. That's one crucial thing that was missing before, Towerlight was needed to power those fabrials, not Stormlight. She has full control over them and she already did restore the Tower to its former glory.

8 hours ago, EDPDragon said:

The chapter heading in chapter 40 of The Hero of Ages says "However, each spike also distorts the koloss body a little more, making it increasingly inhuman."

I know that by default koloss have 4 spikes, but what's the limit of spikes the koloss's body can take? Could a stronger koloss be made with 5 or 6 spikes, or would that kill it?

Well, TenSoon was wearing 4 spikes and he still remained a Kandra. I think if you know what you're doing, you can give a Koloss more spikes and they will still remain a Koloss - bigger, stronger and probably more mindless, but still a Koloss. However I don’t think Koloss will be able to handle more spikes, 1, or 2, maybe 4 at best - a linchpin spike might be required as with Inquisitors. Inquisitors needed a linchpin spike after their 4th spike, Koloss already have 4 spikes. I think it's also possible that the addition of a linchpin spike would change a Koloss enough so they would no longer be a Koloss, then the answer would be you can't give them more spikes. Unfortunately this is all speculation as we don’t have answers to those questions, it can go either way.

7 hours ago, Master Silver said:

So Minor spoilers from the prologue for Stormlight Five. 

My theory is that we have not yet really seen why the Heralds are spoken of with such awe by the Fused/Singers and the legends of mankind. The reason for this is that the honor blades which are splinters of Honor behave sort of like Radiant Spren bonds. Yes they give the basic lashings of their respective order, but this is the least they are supposed to do. It is sort of like how dead blades and plate are still fantastic weapons. Why aren't the Honor blades more fantastic? Broken oaths. Re-swear those oaths and I bet they do so much more. The major thing or most obvious thing would be the honor blades acting as a source of stormlight for their bearers. A direct connection to Honor by which they can be filled with Stormlight. Another interesting effect would be how we see the Radiants leak less stormlight as they progress to higher ideals. I imagine this is true of the heralds too. If they re-swear their oaths I bet their stormlight efficiency sky rockets.

Yes, Honorblades can do more than we've seen till now. Honorblades aren't bound by Oaths like Radiants and their True Spren are. Honorblades aren't like a Nahel Bond, the Nahel bond is like Honorblades - it was Spren who started to copy Honorblades first. 

One thing Heralds were capable of is drawing power directly from Honor, not needing Stormlight for their Surgebinding - but after Honor's death this is likely no longer possible. However Honorblade are the first generation, the prototypes of Shardblades and because of that they are less efficient (and also less fantastic) - they require more Stormlight to power Surgebinding, they don't heal as well as Radiants can (for example they can't heal spiritual wounds), they can't change their forms and this doesn't change when they are in Herald's hands, thus no oath can change that too. They are tied to the Oathpact but not directly, they are more like a symbol of the Oath Heralds made. Honorblades were even swapped by Heralds from time to time so they aren't even that strongly tied to each Herald specifically. 

I doubt Heralds can just reswear their Oath and be good - that won't work like it does with Radiants, as they didn't swear Oaths like Radiants do. They were a part of the Oathpact, they made one Oath, forged by Ishar and Honor. The Oathpact is a cage made out of Herald's souls, now it's nearly broken. Oaths aren't needed, even the Stormfather warns Dalinar that with Jezrien's blade he can be more than a Windrunner, nearly like a Herald. We don't know what it even means to be like a Herald, so yes, Honorblades are likely capable of more, but they have some serious limitations in comparison to Shardblades. 

OB ch 16:

WoBs:

3 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Mistborn spoilers:

Spoiler

We see in MB 1 that a Shard can easily wipe out all of the people on a planet. Ruin was only indirectly wiping out Scadrians (he was really trying to destroy the planet, the people were a side effect) by erupting the ashmounts and causing the earthquakes, etc - and that was a weakened shard.

 

This is SA forum only, please put that fragment into a spoiler box with a proper warning.  

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I didnt mention this but I believe Odium is Invested in Roshar at this point (i think there is a wob).

Here is that WoB:

1 hour ago, gokucauthon said:

i thought his authority came from him being bonded to the Stormfather/remnants of Honor

This is important, but that alone doesn't give Dalinar the authority to negotiate in the name of the entire Roshar. He needed to become a leader of the Coalition first. His Connection to the Stormfather and therefore Honor's remnants allow Dalinar to free Odium from Honor's imprisonment. OB ch 57:

Quote

Dalinar stood up. “I offer you a challenge of champions. With terms to be discussed. Will you accept it?”
Odium stopped, then turned slowly. “Do you speak for the world, Dalinar Kholin? Will you offer this for all Roshar?”
Storms. Would he? “I…”

1 hour ago, ThisIsthePlace said:

I'm not sure if this has any significance, but I recently was re-reading Oathbringer, and noticed that it mentions the leader of Tukar as the God-King. Is this a possible relation with Warbreaker? Or is it just something that develops individually across the Cosmere that they have in common?

No, it's just a title. We know that Tukari God-King is Herald Ishar and Heralds are incapable of leaving Roshar. 

5 hours ago, Quantus said:

F-Nicrosil stores the ability to Use a particular investiture

Yes and that's innate investiture. Metallic arts come from Preservation's fragment and that's innate investiture. By compounding and later tapping your metalmind you will increase your innate investiture, become more invested and that gives you similar effects to Heightenings in general. And while compounding your Allomantic or Feruchemical powers would make you stronger in those arts, I don't care about it, I only care about how invested will your Preservation's fragment become by tapping all what you've compounded and what passive effects of being that invested you will get. 

To everybody who doesn't see many uses for heat and F-brass. Feruchemy protects you from some harmful effects of using your powers. Everything that's below the melting point of brass (930 degree C) is a free real estate for you (technically you can also store in liquid metals but it would affect investiture in some way). For people who work with metal it would be a really useful thing. You can literally fuse pieces of aluminum together by melting them in your hands. You can boil water for tea or coffee with no effort - you'll never get wet in rain with F-brass. You can shape plastic like clay with your bare hands. I think it would be fun to have such power - but your wardrobe won't be happy, you either work naked or get used to burning clothes.

56 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

But this raises a question. Why does a Herald or a Shardbearer go for help to deal with a child bonding a Spren? Why does she not just tell the Spren to leave and is obeyed?

Highspren like hierarchy, that's why they are obeying Nale, but Honorspren clearly showed that they will go any lengths to achieve their goals, even if it means imprisoning a Herald. Heralds have only a limited authority among spren and vary depending on their type. Cryptics have a "reputation," they were the first to respond to the incoming Desolation, their society isn't centered around militarism like Highspren or Honorspren's, they likely don't care that much about what a Herald orders them to do.

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No honor, no problems with him telling people anything. This assumes that Cultivation does not exist and that the shards would have known what would happen and disapproved.

You've asked for consequences of Splintering of Honor, I gave you them. This "telling people" is in the past. Recreance happened because Honor was dying and wasn't able to perform his duties as he did previously. If he wasn't Splintered, Recreance most likely wouldn't have happened. I have no idea why you brought Cultivation into this particular point. 

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

So because there is too much power in the hands of a human being who can be killed, if worst comes to worst, you would give divine powers that come with an influence that warps the mind to another human being?

Being a Shard chains you with limitations and rules you have to obey. Bondsmith Unchained can do things that even Shards can't. Honor restricted those things to prevent another Ashyn from happening, but Shards can't just blast a planet into oblivion, they are limited by their nature. Reformed Honor is a much lesser threat than a Bondsmith Unchained, especially if it falls into reasonable hands, like Dalinar.

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Do I need to point out that the original Honor approved a plan that got 90% of Roshar's population killed over and over?

That was not Honor's plan at all. Did you forget, Honor didn't predict that Heralds would break their Oath? Honor assumed that once Heralds go to Braize, Fused and Voidspren would never come back to Roshar as they will be trapped on Braize for an eternity. You can't accuse him of being malicious when he just made a tragic mistake. He was blinded by his Intent. OB ch 38:

Quote

THEY GAVE THEMSELVES UP. AS ODIUM IS SEALED BY THE POWERS OF HONOR AND CULTIVATION, YOUR HERALDS SEALED THE SPREN OF THE DEAD INTO THE PLACE YOU CALL DAMNATION. THE HERALDS WENT TO HONOR, AND HE GAVE THEM THIS RIGHT, THIS OATH. THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD END THE WAR FOREVER. BUT THEY WERE WRONG. HONOR WAS WRONG.
“He was like a spren himself,” Dalinar said. “You told me before—Odium too.”
HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL.

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

How is this in the interest of the people of Roshar? Why would they rekindle the cycle of Desolations to do that?

Because Odium said that once he is freed, he will kill every Splinter of Honor on Roshar and he will Splinter Cultivation as well. That's why this is in the interest of the people of Roshar. Nobody wants to restart Desolations, they need to stop them and bringing back Honor with a fresh Vessel is a first step to finding the ultimate solution that isn't an endless Desolation and the one that doesn't allow Odium, a force that wants the be the only god in Cosmere, to rampage freely among stars. OB ch 57:

Quote

“And what are the consequences of my releasing you?”
“Well, first I’d see to Cultivation’s death. There would be … other consequences, as you call them, as well.”
[...]
“A man cannot serve two gods at once, Dalinar,” Odium said. “And so, I cannot leave her behind. In fact, I cannot leave behind the Splinters of Honor, as I once thought I could. I can already see that going wrong. Once you release me, my transformation of this realm will be substantial.”

13 hours ago, Quantus said:

Allomancy doesn't store any Investiture in the misting themselves so at most they'd only gain those additional benefits while actively burning.  That path leads to Savantism fairly quickly.

Not via Allomancy, but with Feruchemy. F-nicrosil stores innate investiture, you only are using Allomancy for compounding to create huge storages of innate investiture, then you just tap that nicrosilmind. 

8 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Quick thought here; since high levels of Investiture can help heal someone, would keeping an injured (non powered) person in a Shardpool make them recover more quickly?

Or, since the Investiture isn't actually a part of them, would it be ineffectice?

I think it would be ineffective. You need a way to draw that investiture in and turn it into a healing power and a non-powered individual doesn't have that ability. Even a Coinshot won't be able to use that to heal.

6 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

What mess? Honor was splintered thousands of years ago. No major ill effects from that are observable. There is no mess. Hence a very simple question: Does anybody have a practical reason to restore Honor?

Recreance wasn't a mess? Thousands of dead spren because Honor was too busy dying and was raving instead of assuring Radiants that they will be fine. The limitations placed on Surges by Honor are fading now, Ishar can do crazy stuff because he's unchained now - that's a mess waiting to happen, repetition of Ashyn is now a real danger. Honor's power in the hands of a mortal, the Bondsmith bonded with the Stormfather. It takes just one wrong person over centuries to allow Odium to leave and it will end with a disaster. Odium already has found a way to walk around the Oathpact, without Honor to counteract him he is just one step away from being freed. The contest of Champions doesn't remove Odium as a threat, it gives him permanently half of Roshar. That's a huge mess that never happened when Honor was alive.

Restoring Honor puts back some pressure on Odium. It gives him an enemy that will oppose his every action, unite and command humanity and spren against him. Honor will cloud Odium's future sight way better than Renarin can. There are many reasons why restoring Honor is a great idea, doing that to mess with Odium's plans is enough of a reason for me.

4 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

@Quantus, as an argument for Nicrosil Compounding, I think it's possible to exploit raw Investiture usage by Storing A-nicrosil's potency while not Burning it, then Tapping it while Compounding to exponentially increase the Investiture gained. That Investiture doesn't do much on its own, but being 1,000 times as Invested as the standard Misting (even if only briefly) has to bring some benefit. Maybe slight Spiritweb expansion?

7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

But assuming you can Compound it in some way to get a Power increase, what exacting is getting increased?  The only Power you'd ever be able to Compound is the ability to Store Powers itself, and multiplying that offers no (obvious?) benefit.  Even with a quantitative Compounding effect, Nicrosil is only useful in a world where Other powers are around to be gathered and stored.  But without anything like that it's as useful as  Duralumin-Gnat, technically a Power and an Investiture use, but without any actual benefit (beyond the ability to eat & destroy samples of a particular metal).

Good idea. You just get more invested. You are increasing the innate investiture of your soul and that has massive consequences. You will be harder to affect with Allomancy in general and Warbreaker spoilers:

I agree with @Trusk'our that F-aluminum just blanks your identity, you don't store it at all. But without knowing for sure, I will go with Cadmium. Compounding breath isn't that useful in your day to day life. 

13 minutes ago, The Stick said:

Here, what I would like to posit is whether or not a Nicrobusts misting could Nicrobust another Nicrobust misting, so the Nicrobust from that misting applied to another misting, let's say a coinshot, would increase the power. If so, could mistborn use Duralumin to boos Nicrosil, then go down the line to crazily amplify powers?

What does nicrosil and duralumin do? It burns all your burned metals in an instant. If you nicroburst a Nicroburster who is boosting a Coinshot, that Coinshot will still burn all his metals in an instant - it makes no difference for a Coinshot if there is a chain of Nicrobursters boosting each or just one. He literally can't burn his metals any faster. 

18 hours ago, SPECTRE120 said:

There are a lot of posts asking who would win, and it always comes down to a Scadrian and a Rosharan. It might be mistborn, twinborn, 3rd ideal radiant, full radiant, etc., but most people have one side they usually agree with, no matter the characteristics. I want to settle the debate once and for all. In general, who do you think would win?

This topic again

Where and when? Right now, as it is at the end of RoW/TLM, both Rosharans and Scadrians can't compete with each other on their home ground. Rosharans can't invite Scadrial as their spren and Radiants are bound to Roshar, unable to leave, their regular troops stand no chance against modern weaponry, while Scadrians can use Metalborns on Roshar, but they also can't leave Scadrial as they have no infrastructure in CR, nor their Metalborns and modern army can reasonably compete against Radiants on Roshar. Right now there is simply no competition at all. 

However in the future of Cosmere things change, Emberdark spoilers:

2 hours ago, Stefano said:

Wayne is a bloodmaker, and at the end of TLM he gains full mistborn abilities.

Wouln't it make him a gold compounder? Why didn't he try to save himself filling up the metalminds before blowing up?

I guesstimate the power of the explosion to be comparable to the 2020 Beirut explosion, which had a yield of around 1 kt. That might have instantly melted or vaporized all of his gold and it would have certainly ripped his body to pieces, separating him from metalminds faster than he could have healed.

To even consider compounding gold as an option he needed to burn his gold to gain health in the first place, which takes just as much time as burning regular gold (if not longer) and makes you lose gold, as you burn it away. He didn't have infinite healing as he didn't have lots of gold and he couldn't have spent any time burning it to accumulate needed storages of health to tap from because the ship had to be stopped right now, before it could have gone any closer to Elendel. 

On 5/3/2024 at 5:15 PM, Nightstar The Bright said:

I’ve noticed that many of the major Rosharan nation pages (Azir, Alethkar, Shinovar etc), which could be considered the successors to the Silver kingdoms, include history from before their founding (human arrival, heraldic Epochs etc). I think this should be removed, or rather moved to the Silver kingdoms pages, because, like I said, the states weren’t there yet. These nation pages aren’t about the land itself, their about the nations. What do you guys think of this?

Disagree. Is the history of the Ottoman Empire separate from Turkey's history? Would you remove the history of HRE, or Prussia before unification of Germany in 1871, saying that it's not Germany because that state didn't exist, nor was it named Germany at that time? But back then it was an empire, nothing like today's state, then it changed into a republic, the 3rd Reich, it was divided into West and East and unified again in 1990. When did the history of modern Germany start? The current iteration of Germany started in 1990 - would you remove everything that was before because those states were vastly different from modern Germany? Where would you draw the line? 

People form nations. Nations evolve, change, grow or fall with their people. The history of a state doesn't start when its modern iteration began, it starts with its people and rulers far in the past that lived in a state that didn't even share the same name as today's country. It's a continuous history and past iterations of a nation aren't removed from its modern form, they are the predecessors that grew into what's now. Germans lived in Germany before Germany existed, Alethi lived in Alethkar before it existed. They've simply changed, but their past directly shaped them in the modern times. The history of previous states is still their history, even if the name was different.

55 minutes ago, Slappyface said:

Is it confirmed that the previous bondsmiths could open perpendicularities? 

I thought the Stormfather was suprised that Dalinar could open it, and Dalinar explains that they are something new?

Yes, that's a Bondsmith power. The Stormfather was seeing something else and was referring to what he saw, he wasn't talking about the perpendicularity Dalinar made. 

14 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I guess the first question is.... could you create a one shot zapping cattle prod commanded to "Destroy Evil"? Some serious touch of death vibes here? 

Probably not, the shape of Nightblood was important for its Awakening. It also matters that he's made out of steel. It wouldn't have worked if he was something else. Not to mention that Endowment was involved in Nightblood's creation, he is one and only in Cosmere, something that can't be repeated without Endowment's involvement. 

14 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

What about a supercharged plasma cutting sword or something?  Brass compounder with a tungsten blade funneling heat through the weapon? Feruchemy protects the ferring as they would be hot enough to heat the weapon in the first place... And Tungsten can withstand temps above 6000 degrees f before melting at 6200f. So I assume you could swing that bad boi around and pretty well melt through everything. Is this the closest to a lightsaber Scadrial can get? 

Brass would melt and your clothes would catch fire long before reaching 6k degrees F. Sure Feruchemy protects you from some effects of your increase in power, but not from all - a F-pewter makes you slower as massive bulky muscles restrict your movement, F-iron also slows you down, F-steel doesn't protect your from friction etc. F-brass might protect you from some effects of heat, but not from all, I expect it won't protect you from such extreme temperatures. 

You want a lightsaber on Scadrial - give some levels of self-awareness to Atium swords, make Honorblades out of them. And it just happened that medallions work by very similar mechanisms and are self-aware a little, just like Honorblades. Make an Atium-medallion and you might end up with a Shardblade - which is better than a lightsaber. 

You can make a railgun with primer cubes charged A-steel, A-iron and A-duralumin, which would be even easier to make than on Earth. 

14 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Please share any thoughts. Extra points if you can make a hammer or staff that is lightning charged. 

Pretty sure investiture alone can be made into electricity - TSM. In the future turning investiture directly into lightning won't be any problem. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

In TSM

Quote

Meant to click spoiler

  Hide contents

Nomad can skip, which doesn't come from his skybreaker or windrunner abilities. 

TSM:

To use Dawnshard to its full potential, you need some kind of Surgebinding (Invested Art). Rysn has none, she is incapable of using her Dawnshard. Dawnshards still grant some passive effects, but no planet destroying powers on their own. They are just Commands. To use Surgebinding you need to have Intent and Command - Dawnshards are the Command, intent comes from your mind, but you have to have your own Surgebinding. Dawnshard doesn't give that. Dawnshard ch 19:

Quote

Nikli laughed. “Mere words cannot explain. The Dawnshards are Commands, Rysn. The will of a god.”
[...]
“The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding,” Nikli said. His body began to re-form, hordelings crawling back into place. “All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no person could ever manage alone. To make such Commands, one must have the reasoning—the breadth of understanding—of a deity. And so, the Dawnshards. The four primal Commands that created all things.” He paused. “And then eventually, they were used to undo Adonalsium itself. . . .”

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

We know that Dawnshards don't just supercharge, there is a theme to each one- change, bind maybe etc. Aimia is the home of soulcasters. To me it seems possible that Ishar's bondsmith abilities on Ashyn might have come from a Dawnshard of Connection. The quote that dawnshards can bind anything is highly suggestive.

Yes, there is a theme, I agree. They do specific things. But the quote suggests that there is a Dawnshard related to bonds, not that Dawnshard can be like supercharged Bondsmithing on its own. WoK ch 36 epigraphs:

Quote

"Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above."

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Gavilar had it 5 years before.

Yes, that's true of course. I meant it wasn't widely known that's possible before Navani did that. How Gavilar made anti-light is unknown, but he was somewhat aware of Cosmere, he knew more - if Cosmere scientists theorized that anti-light is possible, the knowledge might have spreaded from them to Kalak/Gavilar. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I don't think that's how that works at all. Nor does it make sense. Who and why would anyone do that? It's much more easier to believe that they used something that they had idea the destructive potential of.

That was just an example, one of several. The point was, there are other ways of destroying a planet that don't involve anti-light. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"An opposite was used, from the things I have been told"

Brandon sets up that Honor was killed by anti light( she thinks it's voidlight, she is wrong)

That was a lie.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"Gavilar was trying to kill a god"

A big revelation for Navani and the reader. And it makes perfect sense that gavilar's megalomania that we don't question it.

False conclusion, Gavilar wanted to kill Fused, not Odium.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

"We could never have made enough"

Suddenly all that set up is nothing. The war wouldn't end like that, as Odium is still unkillable( except nightblood). It is very unsatisfying revelation. Brandon never does that. Honor's death is a mystery, and the direct clue says that anti light was used.

The set up was - Rabonile manipulated Navani into creating anti-light. Rabonile deceives her. It's obvious when you know Shardic power is basically infinite - you would need nearly an infinite amount of anti-light and because in Cosmere investiture can't be destroyed - it can be turned into energy - Honor's power annihilating with anit-light would have blasted Roshar out of existence - it clearly didn't happen. Moreover Odium has killed 3 other Shard before coming to Roshar, anti-light was unlikely to be involved (as Odium didn’t know how to make it, he only know it’s theoretically possible - if he knew how to make it, they would just make it, Navani would have been useless to them). All of it was just a lie and manipulation, and that’s what the set up was for.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

My idea comes from the fact that anti light requires a connection to that part shard. 

Kind of. It requires intent. They've made anti-Voidlight, by placing it in vacuum, which made the light unable to hear Odium's rhythm, kind of blanking its Connection to Odium, and then Navani played rhythm of anti-Odium to overwrite the rhythm it hears, which requires no Connection, it's math, it's music, it's a frequency. I personally wonder if you can just play Honor's tone and make Stormlight from Voidlight that way. Intent is needed, we don't know if Connection is needed too, even in Ars Arcanum Khriss said nothing about Connection:

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However, I find electrifying the news out of the mountains of Ur, that their current queen seems to have been able to Command the creation of an anti-Investiture. Long theorized, this will be my first true evidence it is possible—and can only be created through Intent.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

This is the only way that I can think about how connection can be outwardly destructive. How Ishar's bondsmithing may have destroyed Ashyn so completely.

Connection in Cosmere is everywhere, it binds everything together. What would happen if you start breaking Connections of individual neutrons with their bonded protons in atoms (Axi in Cosmere)? Fission, you would split the atom. That releases energy. Do it wrong and you have a nuke, do it extra, impossibly wrong with a Dawnshard and you have atmospheric ignition, where the whole atmosphere of a planet is undergoing fission. That can happen by accident, Ishar might have just discovered fission and took it one step too far. Ignition of the atmosphere was a question seriously considered by the scientists of the Manhattan project before the first test of a nuclear bomb. 

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

That Koravari and tanavast were Dawnshard holders.

I find this to be very likely.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

And that their shards are as a result very similar to their Dawnshard intents. 

Yes, but not because they held the Dawnshards, but because they split Adonalsium in a specific way with Dawnshards and those two were already molded by their Dawnshards to embrace change and bonds, so they fit well with the Intents of Honor and Cultivation, so they took those Shards. Commands of other Dawnshards seems also plausible, I more or less agree with the rest of your points that I didn't mention earlier, or find quite likely. 

8 hours ago, L0N3STARR said:

Gained something... Gained means he didn't have it before. That means he was bound, prior to refusing a shard.

My theory? Hoid either was the vessel of Adonalsium, or was a splinter of Adonalsium. More likely a splinter, since Frost is older than him. He was there for the shattering, because it was he, or rather because he was a part of, who was being shattered. 

Perhaps the shattering gave him his autonomy. 

I don't even know where to start, but I think we know enough and have enough evidence to say that's not true. The best is to read Hoid's Coppermind page, as it compresses most of what we know - but it includes spoilers from all published books.

Looking at the quote, he gained freedoms relative to other Vessels who can't have those freedoms again. He had them before, but wasn't aware of them. By refusing to take up a Shard, he realized he has freedoms others don't anymore. He's an artist, a storyteller - playing with words is his job and hobby. He always tells things that mean something else. 

 From WoBs we know Hoid aged before the Shattering and that he was born naturally - this excludes him being a Vessel and a Splinter.

 If he were a Splinter, his investiture would have been assigned to one of 16 new Shards, thus he would have been bound once more and restricted, just like spren are. 

Have you read any of the Secret Projects? Tress spoilers:

TSM spoilers:

17 minutes ago, MindMeltingMistwraith said:

This was my original thought. If Feruchemy works by storing Investiture in pieces of metal, with the effect stored affected by the structure of the metal, then it seems like having another type of Investiture (especially if it was already keyed to you) could still work because the metal would tell the Breath how to behave. Isn't this essentially how compounding works? The metal you burn is charged Feruchemically, so when you burn the metal, the flood of Investiture from the SR takes on the Feruchemical properties.

Theoretically yes, but it's different. You don't store investiture by Awakening, you're making the object a little alive. And I think that's where the problem lies - burning metals that are alive, like Shardblades, is impossible because they are alive. Awakened metals might not always be like Nightblood, or Shardblades, but there is one step beyond metalminds in being alive. They would work differently and Breaths in those metals act like the soul - it's not like investiture that metalminds are filled with.

If you were to store Breaths via nicrosilmind, not Awaken, just store them, then you might be able to compound them with Allomancy and Preservation's power. This might do something new, we don't know, but that's a possible way to compound Breaths - if you can even store Breaths in a nicrosilmind. Those Breaths won't be alive, won't be activated, or Commanded, they would act as raw investiture. But that would still draw from Preservation and we don't know what Nicrosil compounding does at all. Would that compounding increase the strength of those Breaths, or would it multiply those Breaths? Maybe it would do something else entirely? We don't know if storing normal Breaths in a nicrosilmind is even possible. 

25 minutes ago, MindMeltingMistwraith said:

Does everything I've said sound right? Do I have a fundamental flaw in my understanding of Feruchemy?

No flaws here, that should work like you said, but per WoBs it doesn't. So it's either that you need to do more to power Feruchemy with powers of other Shards that aren't native on Scadrial (Feruchemy is still Preservation's magic system), or it's something with how Breaths work specifically that prevents them from being compounded like that. 

14 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Do we have confirmation that it was Odium that killed Ambition? Because this quote suggests otherwise.

I don't know if it was said directly that Odium killed Ambition, but most evidence points to that conclusion. I think this WoB also strongly suggests it was Odium. The "But then he got trapped" refers to his hit list and inability to kill more Shards. And we know that Odium would have gone after Autonomy later, and since Splintering of Devotion and Dominion, he learned to do it better - how did he learn if not by Splintering Ambition?

Endowment also implies in her letter to Hoid that it was Odium that killed Ambition. He mortally wounded Ambition during their clash at Threnody AU:

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Long ago, soon after the Shattering, Odium clashed with (and mortally wounded) the Shard Ambition here. Ambition would later be Splintered, though that final act took place in a different location.

I find it possible that it was Mercy who mercy killed mortally wounded Ambition, but I think this new WoB also implies it was Odium, as he didn't expect it to be that hard. In the end I still think it was Odium who did something to Ambition that was also similar to what happened to Devotion and Dominion (which we know was done directly by Odium, so if it’s similar Odium had to do it, as no other Shard would know how to repeat that).